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Author
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Topic: caliber selection 300 win mag or 300wsm
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6mm284
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posted September 15, 2011 05:31 AM
Know this is a predator form but wanted to tap the experience of many here as i knows there are a lot of knowledgeable guys here..
.. Am considering either a 300 win mag or a 300 wsm for elk hunting. Am leaning toward the 300 wsm for action length and weight. Looks like ballistics are slightly better than the 300 win mag.. Any reasons not to go with the 300wsm thanks
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Aznative
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posted September 15, 2011 07:28 AM
I believe it was Dan Carey that said the WSM cartridges haven't been the success winchester had hoped. He said brass and loaded ammo production runs will be made on a periodic basis so availability may not always be that great. The 300 win mag will always be around.
It may have been on another site where Dan made that statement. I’m not sure of how correct this is and if it even applies to the 300 WSM. It may be more of an issue with some of the funkier WSM rounds like the 25 WSM.
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knockemdown
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posted September 15, 2011 07:44 AM
I'd choose the 300WSM for the reasons you've stated. No flies on that cartridge, or the 7WSM for that matter...
The WSSMs (super sort) seem to be the 'red-headed stepchildren' to some. But if you crave all out horsepower from an AR-15, they're an interesting option to consider...
What 30 caliber bullet are you gonna run for your elk takin'?
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Bofire
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posted September 15, 2011 10:20 AM
300wsm published balistics are slightly faster, I am VERY suspicuious of that. 300wm has 7-10% more powder capacity. I have read that the wsm is factory loaded with a special 'blended' powder that we cannot buy. For killing animals I doubt there is any difference but I would bet that a reloader will get more out of a wm than a wsm.
Carl
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Leonard
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posted September 15, 2011 11:20 AM
I am unimpressed with the WSM line top to bottom. The argument about a quarter inch less of receiver and less bolt throw, also unimpressive here.
I spent so many hours and days thinking that a 7Mag was so much better than a 300 that when I bought a used 300, I intended to re-barrel it. Then I shot it and began to reconsider.
It's a hell of a cartridge with more history and reputation than the new design will ever have besides theoretical. Even if the brass question was nonexistent, the availability of brass and cartridges is something to consider.
In just about every country store in South Africa, they have 300WinMag on the shelf, something I knew before I went there and something I proved with my own eyes. You wouldn't believe the effort I went through attempting to satisfy ignorant airline regulations about "factory" ammo and even factory "boxes". I half way expected my handloads to be confiscated, for some arbitrary reason, not to mention that they weren't in "factory" boxes. It turned out airline personnel don't know a factory box from their butt-hole and I worried over nothing.
But, the point is, 300WinMag fodder is available, even if it has been sitting on the shelf getting moldy for years. This is a valid consideration for any hunter unless he already lives in the wilderness and never travels.
When I bought my 300, it was pretty shabby. Whoever owned it must have lived in coastal Alaska so I needed a good fiberglass stock. The barrel and action was in terrible condition, but it is factory stainless, so I glass peened it, then polished the nonstainless receiver to a mirror finish. Never a particle of rust in about 40 years, still a mirror finish. And, has held zero all this time.
My research, if you can call it that? was comparing the Winchester with the Weatherby and while there is no comparison in performance, I found that according to published data, the Winchester round actually did compare, in 165/168 grain bullet weight, and that is what I have used ever since. Seems to be a good balance of ballistic coefficient and stuff like that.
Anyway, that's my trivia for today, thanks for enduring my blather.
(get the 300WinMag, you won't regret it)
gh....lb
edit: be suspicious of velocity data as well as the secret canister powders unavailable to we mere mortals. Also, the main thing we must contend with is something called "a mature market" meaning that everybody who desires a rifle already owns plenty of them.
Therefore, the factory must create a need or burning desire to own the latest and greatest. Generally speaking, there actually is magic in those numbers. A 308 Norma has far less "cachet" than 300 MAGNUM. The factory thinks that you will want to be the first on your block to own a shinny new "WSM" rather than a boring 300 WinMag which is so, ordinary and unexciting. Same as the sex appeal in buying that sports car so you can get the girls. Buy a WSM and the women will be falling all over you! El Bee lol
[ September 15, 2011, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Aznative
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posted September 16, 2011 08:30 AM
Knock em down: I may have confused the WSM with the WSSM in my above statement. I don't own either and really don't plan on it.
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Leonard
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posted September 16, 2011 10:18 AM
Don't worry about it, I don't know the difference either?
gh....lb
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Lungbuster
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posted September 17, 2011 10:50 AM
I like the 300WM better.
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Leonard
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posted September 17, 2011 10:54 AM
You appear to be a very intelligent gentleman, lungbuster. I agree with your opinion.
gh....lb
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6mm284
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posted September 18, 2011 07:26 AM
seems like there is a lot of confusion over the wsm and the wssm. Stand them side by side and you see the difference and why wssm stands for wincester super short mag.
wsm seems to take get some negatives that are actually due to the wssm issues.While i did go ahead and buy a 300 win mag., after much reading I would have no qualms over a 300 wsm.. It appears to be a more efficient cartridge due to its case . Slightly higher veloctiy with less powder. Has a longer neck than the 300 win mag, so supposedly tends to shoot all bullet weights more accurately than the 300 win mag.Shorter powder stack is supposed to have less felt recoil.
As far as ammo, I have looked at a number of stores and there are lots of 300 wsm ammo out there.. Althought the oft confused wssm ammo is getting scare. Thanks for all your opinions
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Leonard
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posted September 18, 2011 09:27 AM
OMG! When I first saw that you replied, I had that same old feeling. Which is; poster asks a question, everybody replies, gives opinions galore, and eventually, original poster comes in and ignores all advice, buys something else. Seen it happen many times, for years, about every subject under the sun. Almost comical, and predictable.
Well, glad we didn't overly confuse you, and good luck with your choice. I don't think you will be much handicapped, not having that short case and long neck, since you can't get the factory powder....assuming you to be a handloader? Score one for tradition.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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6mm284
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posted September 18, 2011 10:04 AM
I have often observd the same.. Most people don't ask advice,,, they ask for agreement.. That way they have someone else to blame or share blame if it turns out to be a mistake. I often just respond,"why are you asking me , you have already made up your mind." Human nature I guess.
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Leonard
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posted September 18, 2011 10:37 AM
POSTSCRIPT
quote:
I have looked at a number of stores and there are lots of 300 wsm ammo out there..
Yes, of course. But, ask yourself; Why? lol
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Andy L
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posted September 18, 2011 11:50 AM
There probably aint a nickles difference in the two, real world hunting situations. Both will do what you want.
I would lean toward the win mag. As was said before, the WSM and WSSM have not been bang up success. They may not be around forever. You can bet the tried and true Win Mag will be. The military uses it for a sniper rifle and its used in many long range matches, that should tell you something.
Anyhow,whatever floats your boat.
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Andy
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Leonard
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posted September 18, 2011 01:39 PM
I agree, Andy. The performance, per se, hasn't been a consideration, except the claim that the newer one is slightly faster, with a custom blended load, and one a handloader may not be able to duplicate, much less equal 300WinMag performance.
Also, I am very aware that the military is using the 300WM and that is worth a consideration, if only because the two are so close. And, this brings up another question; why bother with a new round that does not seem to offer much, when you stop to think about it?
I really think a lot of it is penis envy, or "be the first on your block" rationale. Which means, (to me) if that's all you got, excuse me but I have to rearrange my sock drawer.
gh....lb
PS how's the medical condition?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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TOM64
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posted September 18, 2011 03:46 PM
I actually had a 300WSM and my velocities with powder I had on hand (IMR4831) was 150gr bullets at 3168fps, 165's at 3040fps and 180's at 2887fps, though I doubt I was close to max on the 180's.
Accuracy was excellent, recoil brutal with the Sako stock that didn't fit me and ammo is still available in every store I visit while 300WM is rare around here for some reason.
Rick Jamison developed it and Winchester stole it, may have something to do with all the fuss about it.
If I were to buy a big 300 again I'd get another WSM cause I like light rifles and short actions but I've never fired a 300WM to compare.
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6mm284
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posted September 18, 2011 05:57 PM
I have to admit I have never considered the "penis envy thing" in this context. As far as the "first on the block" .... there is no one else on the block where I live.!!!!Long past trying to impress anyone..even if I could.
As of this afternoon I acquired a 300wsm , vastly different configuration of rifle than the 300 win mag I got yesterday but I like both.
Thanks alot for the replies, I appreciated and enjoyed all.If I can I will post my impressions of both.
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Rich
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posted September 18, 2011 06:09 PM
6mm284,
Are you gearing up to hunt those dang elk that are eating your crops? I know you ain't, but it sure is tempting. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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ARDave
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posted September 18, 2011 06:27 PM
I've owned the 300wsm. I have owed a 300 rum also. I didn't really have a problem with it, but the 300 remington ultra mag is what I'd go with over any other 300. With the 300 wsm, I liked the remington sirroco bonded bullets (180 grn).
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-Dave
Nothing is free.
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Lungbuster
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posted September 18, 2011 07:09 PM
quote:
I didn't really have a problem with it, but the 300 remington ultra mag is what I'd go with over any other 300.
I never shot one of them. Isn't that built off of the .404 Jeffery case? Giving it about 20+% more case capacity than the 300WM?.... I think I read that somewhere..
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Leonard
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posted September 18, 2011 07:41 PM
Now we are getting into different considerations.
I appreciate the fact that the responders generally kept to the cartridges under consideration.
Usually, someone will talk about something different, entirely, like 8MM Ultra Mag or 338Winchester Magnum, both of which might be a better choice, depending on the terrain hunted, but obviously not 6mm284's area of interest.
How about a 348Winchester for the nostalgia buffs? Good enough for Teddy Roosevelt, I understand? You know, a light short action chambered in 358Winchester could be enough gun, again, depending. 8mmMauser, anybody? 30'06? The whole rig needs to be evaluated, scope barrel length, all that stuff. An elk rifle means many different things to many different people.
Of course, when you have the coin to buy both of your choices, what's the problem?
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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6mm284
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posted September 19, 2011 03:51 AM
Rich, I don't know it if was just coincidence that you mentioned elk eating my crops, however I did have 9 elk in my beans fields a few weeks back. Escaped from a local private hunting preserve. I did ask the DNR if I could shoot one of them since they were in my fields causing damage. Not allowed as they were private property. A big animal knockes down alot of crop but the owner doesn't seem to think he has any reponsibilty even though he has insurance... Good to here you chime in , I have been wondering about you and if you are keeping busy.
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Andy L
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posted September 19, 2011 05:52 AM
Im much better. I still have drop foot and quite a bit of pain from the nerve regeneration, but compared to where I was, Im gettin around better than I have in fifteen years. Lookin forward to hunting hard this year.
Thanks for asking. I kinda went recluse there through the worst of it. I was in a bad place mentally and no need to spread the joy.
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Andy
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Paul Melching
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posted September 19, 2011 06:32 AM
Good to hear your up and about Andy, Have a great season!
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Rich
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posted September 19, 2011 07:53 AM
6mm284,
I did know about the elk in your field, and I am betting that the owner of those animals is in fact liable for the damage. You chose a couple of good elk calibers for your upcoming hunt. Shoot a tasty one now will ya?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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