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Author
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Topic: After much research......
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2011 04:13 PM
Can we settle, once and for all:
What is the very best cartridge for coyotes?
Alternately: What is not good enough?
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted July 23, 2011 04:28 PM
quote:
What is the very best cartridge for coyotes?
say what you will,
but for me its 140gr Federal ballistic tips out of my 7mag ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
knocks the blood right out of them! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ July 23, 2011, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 23, 2011 04:46 PM
My local dealer sent me a text this morning, he has a line on a 444 Marlin lever gun with no safety...
Do they make 44 cal ballistic tips?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted July 23, 2011 05:01 PM
.50 Beowulf
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2011 05:07 PM
Ha Ha. I was being serious. A plain vanilla 243 might be all we will ever need?
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted July 23, 2011 05:20 PM
I'm guessing the 17 HMR comes up a little short.
<LAFFIN>
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted July 23, 2011 05:20 PM
new and improved 17 Carey Magnum
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted July 23, 2011 05:34 PM
quote:
Ha Ha. I was being serious.
yea and so was I ,
it knocks the blood out of them every time .
no spinners and no survivors.
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 23, 2011 05:37 PM
Careful Dan; some here believe ANYTHING in .17, comes up short:) Poor devils, they just don't know, that they don't know any better.
Ive played with every reasonable caliber I can think of thats used for predators, and probably had my best annual success using the .19 badger, netting over 100 coyotes in a winter, not to mention the cats and fox that year. Every bit as good as the past years that I used .223s, or .22-250s or swifts or .17 rems or mach 4s etc?
[ July 23, 2011, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted July 23, 2011 05:57 PM
I shot a coyote this morning 240 steps. Center mass with a straight 243 sporting a 55gr nbt going right at 4000 centermass. Had to look real hard for an entry.
The debate goes on.
LB will be please to know this was with a bolt gun.
Yall stay after them
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2011 06:05 PM
I'm calling BS! When did you ever use a Swift for an entire season?
I used a 220 Swift for over ten years, almost exclusively. I never had a complaint other than continual neck trimming, certainly not about results.
Okay..... I believe you but I'm shocked.
gh....lb
edit: Yes Kelly, that pleases me no end! Hang up the machine gun and get legit!
edit: FINALLY! A 17 with promise! I may have to try one?
[ July 23, 2011, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted July 23, 2011 06:29 PM
Vic, after hearing your praise for the 19, I had a 20 VarTarg made up. I believe it to be about equal to the 19 you used.
Besides, I want to use it on rockchucks and such also. It won't get as hot as fast as my big gun, the 204 Ruger. HEHEHe
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 23, 2011 06:33 PM
Leonard, Ive never used any rifle "exclusively" for a season, I always have to mix a couple other in to keep me from a boredom induced coma:)
One year, I mixed in the reviled .17 HMR, and took 24 coyotes with it, out of 26 shot, only loosing two.
My swift was a Ruger #1, with the nicest looking wood Ive ever seen a Ruger stocked with, not their usual orange tinted walnut, but a deep chocolate swirl stick of wood. Good shooting rifle, but was a neck splitting sonofabitch. I just never saw much difference between it and the 22-250 and 22-250 ackley I had at the time. They were about one and the same on coyotes, just to much gun for my style of hunting.
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 23, 2011 06:48 PM
12 Ga. 3 inch Copper plated lead BB.
Think; Boom - Flop.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2011 07:10 PM
Well, at the time, you know fresh out of the Army going to school at night, my exclusive use of that Swift was out of necessity. It was the only centerfire I owned and I had to sell my 270 to get it.
As far as splitting hairs, (not necks) there actually isn't much difference between those three you mention. I would rate them with the Swift in the middle and at least my current Ackley is considerably above either of the Swifts I have owned. And yes, my first Swift did have an occasional split neck, which I have no trouble remembering because it was the only rifle I have ever owned that did it, but not excessively, my case life was very satisfactory.
And, I think the reason might be that I have never pushed the envelope? I find out where the limit is, and back off to where it is never a problem. Hot loads are for the birds, in my opinion. Case life suffers and so does barrel life.
I hunted with Bill Odem for one season. I think he moved to Utah some time ago and used to be on the Primus Pro Staff, don't know if he still is or not, lost track of him years ago? Anyway, he used a pre '64 Winchester, if memory serves? Chambered in 270 Winchester. Hot loads are one thing but this guy kept a ball pein hammer up on the rack to open his bolt. That's crazy shit.
My God! That particular 270 was the Hammer of Thor! Used to light up the sky and I never saw a man as patient as he was. While I was shooting them the first time they stopped, 200 yards or so, he would let them run right into the truck, well within my nervous zone. I don't know if he was lucky or good, probably a little of both?
I can't say too much though, when I was using my 270, mainly, they died BEFORE hitting the ground. There were a few that didn't die, but they didn't feel like going anywhere, either.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 23, 2011 07:43 PM
I've not seen anything kill a coyote as good as my 243AI but I'll never turn away from the 223 and in fact just put together the ultimate calling gun rigged specificly for the 77gr SMK's.
And yes, it's a machine gun, I've had enough practice with the bolt guns, back to what I know.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2011 09:54 PM
For out here, for what I do, and those that pursue coyotes as I do, (deep breath) I can't recommend a 223 for the wide range of presentations we see, desert hunting. Of course, I have not used 77 grain bullets, in fact nothing above 55 grains. You know that little jingle about "doing my part" etc. Well, when they bust out of cover or there is two or three of them and you can't count on a well placed shot; just as good as can be managed under the circumstances.
A 223 doesn't leave much margin for error, not that I am advocating fringe hits as a rationale for more gun. A bad hit is not a good thing, no matter the cartridge used.
Well, I hope I'm not engaging in double talk, but regardless, I like more than what a 223 can do. In fact, I'd take a 17 or 19 or 204 way before venturing afield with a garden variety 223Remington.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted July 23, 2011 10:05 PM
quote:
Well, I hope I'm not engaging in double talk, but regardless, I like more than what a 223 can do. In fact, I'd take a 17 or 19 or 204 way before venturing afield with a garden variety 223Remington.
Aaah there is still hope for Leonard...
Don't know if Tom canbe saved but keep after him Leonaed....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5615 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 23, 2011 10:23 PM
Can we concentrate on the question? I know there are people dying to know the answer.
Minimum, 22-250Remington. I will make allowances for several sub-calibers, but if all you can come up with is a crummy 223, I feel sorry for you.
gh....lb
unless you are an Okie and don't know any better. (just kidding)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted July 23, 2011 11:43 PM
quote:
for what I do, and those that pursue coyotes as I do
Therein lies the key, and since there are almost as many variables as there are stars in the sky, what's perfect or even acceptable for one, just ain't the next guy's cup o tea. Vive la différence! If I'm right, does that make you wrong? Oh wait, that can't be!
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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CCP
Knows what it's all about
Member # 913
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posted July 24, 2011 05:40 AM
Kind of a trick question
“Best cartridge for coyotes in traps or cages?”
Any of the rim fires
“Best cartridges for coyotes you just happen to drive up on out across the field or valley?”
243 or 22-250
“Best cartridges for curious coyotes you happen to see while calling that are out there 1 to 400 hundred yards?”
Same as above .243 or 22-250
“Best cartridge for actually called coyotes within 75-100 yards?"
I like a heavy bullet in the .223 cartridge stoked in the machine gun.
“Best cartridge for called in , completely fooled coyotes?”
Well not actually a cartridge but rather a shell as in 12ga #1 buck.
Just trying to do my part in making this at least a 10 page thread!!!!
Posts: 117 | From: SouthEastern united states | Registered: Jul 2006
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted July 24, 2011 05:42 AM
Was shootin' a couple rifles last weekend. I was sort of impressed to see that a little .17 caliber warp launching 30gr Golds was sho' nuff' cratering a steel plate (3/8" diamond plate) at 550yds. AT 250yds, I've burned those same loads clear through 1/4" AR 500 plate.
I can't really draw a parallel between steel plate & on game performance, but that 17 caliber 30gr bullet @ 4100fps MV will flat out tear through some shit...
As a reality check, the .243, pushing 115gr DTACs, was absolutely pounding that same plate to the point where I stopped using it. Too much crater damage...
Speed kills, but there's no replacement for displacement!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 24, 2011 06:35 AM
Don't worry Leonard, I've already said the 243AI was king, if ya just want em dead...
But like my Uncle used to tell us when we was bird hunting, shooting amongst a covey won't fill your bag. You have to pick one and kill it.
So when that 3 or 4 coyotes come busting out of cover, I'll pick one and kill it. Then being as I have a machine gun in my hands and don't have to do anything but let the trigger reset, I'll aquire another and kill it.
I've actually lost more coyotes with a 22-250 than a 223 and by lost I mean no shots at multiples cause I was having to pump multiple shots into a single coyote.
Course, I am an Okie...
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted July 24, 2011 06:41 AM
There is no argument that bigger is better on less than stellar shot placement, and bullet choice can be a major factor too.
So with all that said, I still use multiple cartridges if for no other reason but to break the monotony.
I mostly carry the mouse guns when I think I'll get opportunities at fox or cats.
Oh yea, I got another 6x45 AR15 (Machine gun) so that just has to be a step up from the 223.
[ July 24, 2011, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted July 24, 2011 07:09 AM
"Oh yea, I got another 6x45 AR15 (Machine gun) so that just has to be a step up from the 223."
You could have had a V8, but you settled for a 4banger, ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ July 24, 2011, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
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