quote:

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NEVER disagree with a Nazi....just nod and smile and agree with whatever they say...... JD

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quote:

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If I had the means and the opportunity, and I was the dude in the video, I would be tempted to kill the son of a bitch and claim self defense.

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quote:

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I watched the video Dan. All the so called "victim" had to do was sign the dang ticket and nothing bad would have happened to him. Not such a hard thing to do.

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How about, all the so called "Cop" had to do was write, recipient refused to sign citation, issued the ticket, and allowed the guy to be on his way.

Maybe that is too hard of a thing to do for some LEO's, but then he wouldn't have been justified in using the power of electricity. Making this man submit to his uncalled for commands. Well actually this cops bad judgement and hard handedness cost them $40,000.

BTW, why should the cop be afraid of being treated as fairly as he treated this guy? If he treated him correctly as you said?

I am a big believer in "what goes around comes around". Maybe that is why so many people, are not so trusting of cops. Karma can be a bitch!

[ July 01, 2011, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 01, 2011, 03:14 PM:
 
I don't know Rich but it seems to me that if the risks of the job are so great that you have to tazer someone over a questionable speeding ticket, maybe you should find a career in something other than law enforcement, just a thought, it IS after all how the rest of the "real world" handles life and our careers.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 01, 2011, 06:00 PM:
 
JD,
I have already stated that I don't like Taser's, would never use one on anybody and that I think that Taser's are a bad idea. There are in fact some bad Cop's running around out there, but I don't see the Officer in the video as being one of them. He obviously was issued a taser gun and trained how to use it. He also had one of those silly video camera's in his cruiser, and that is also a bad idea in my opinion.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 01, 2011, 06:36 PM:
 
This is the EXACT REASON there SHOULD BE a dash cam in EVERY police cruiser in the US of A!
BECAUSE if there was no dash cam! The entire strory would be different. The tasered guy's word against the officer. And... We all know what that would have turned out like.

And another thing. Sometimes calling the cops is like going into the hospital to have a plantars wart removed and getting a leg amputated instead. How many times have you heard of a mom, a dad, a neighbor calling the police because someone is acting crazy? They just want the police to come in and "keep the peace" but someone ends up shot 12 times because they wouldn't put down the garden rake!

[ July 01, 2011, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 01, 2011, 06:47 PM:
 
Tasered because he wouldn't sign a citation? The NAZI said that he thought the man was running away and that's why he did it. He's handcuffed....... and he was going to run away from his wife and his vehicle? Pulled over for speeding? Damn, man! He wasn't a bank robber!

Here's my opinion. A citizen has the right to dispute a traffic stop, right then. Is the only option to meekly sign it and thank the officer for his trouble, then miss a day of work to appear in court?

Since when can't a motorist disagree and dispute a violation? It may not get him anywhere, but I would think he can voice his displeasure at the stop and the so called violation.

And Rich. I know where you are coming from, I know the brotherhood and all that. But, did this guy look like a dirt bag? He was just driving along, minding his own business and winds up tasered and arrested? Does this really seem reasonable?

Okay, I know the signature on the ticket is a promise to appear and not an admission of guilt. But, refusing to sign a ticket is grounds for handcuffs and getting the shit knocked out of him with that taser? It sure looks like an abuse of power, to me?

I know they claim that if you don't sign it, that theoretically, they can haul your ass before a magistrate, right now but how often does that happen? And, in the case of a refusal, do the majority of agencies arrest the offender, on the spot, or is there a more calm, reasonable solution? Such as explaining to the man the ramifications, should he refuse to sign the ticket?

I don't know, I'm trying to understand how the man has a job to do and all that, but I don't see the justification for what he did?

You have to consider that ultimately, it will be a jury of ordinary citizens that will decide if excess force was used; not all his buddies down at the station.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 01, 2011, 07:09 PM:
 
Tasers were invented because it looked bad to just shoot people for no reason. Well, no good reason.

I remember in one of my first training meetings, one of the guys in the group had asked for permission to carry a stick. The Sheriff showed up with his stick, and a department issued jar of petroleum jelly to go with it. When the guy asked what the jelly was for, the Sheriff told him straight up, "Because when someone thinks they'll accomplish more with a night stick than they can with people skills, chances are you'll tend to be the first to use one, And, chances are, somewhere, someday, someone will take your stick from you and shove it up your ass. The jelly will make it hurt less." LOL His request was withdrawn.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 01, 2011, 07:15 PM:
 
Lol. That's a goodun, Cdog.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 01, 2011, 08:43 PM:
 
"And Rich. I know where you are coming from, I know the brotherhood and all that. But, did this guy look like a dirt bag? He was just driving along, minding his own business and winds up tasered and arrested? Does this really seem reasonable?"
-----------------------------------------------
Leonard,
The guy didn't look like a dirt bag until he opened his mouth. Everything went down hill from there. The Officer started out nice, and only used force when necessary. He obviously was new to Police work or he would have secured the man in back seat of his cruiser immediately after the cuffs were on. I was worried about the Officer's safety because that woman could well have came out of the car with a gun. In this case it appeared that the Officer was out there alone until the scene was pretty much secured. It is extremely dangerous out there Leonard. I am going to stop posting in these anti-cop threads because I see both sides while several guys here only see things from ONE side of things. That fact is because they have never walked the Walk of a Law Man.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 01, 2011, 10:04 PM:
 
All I know is the police serve the public and are 100% volunteers.

gh...lb
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 01, 2011, 10:28 PM:
 
C'mon Rich, don't get all butt hurt and run off to pout with 49, all we are saying is that if a cop is unable to control a man that doesn't understand a speeding ticket or the protocol thereof and he HIMSELF escalates the situation into a life threatening scenario in his own mind and ends up tazeing a man that is no more agitated than anyone else would be in that scenario......well shit, maybe LE just isn't for that particular cop.

You gotta admit Rich this particular guy wasn't aggressive nor was he threatening the cop or trying to escape as the officer claimed, a little dense, maybe but there is no law against that, this guy at best needed an explanation as to why the cop pulled him over and how he should handle the ticket in court. The cop ORDERED him out of the vehicle in a pissed off voice.....why......because this threat to society wouldn't sign a damn ticket....really? Again maybe an explanation of why he should sign and what would happen if he didn't would be a better approach.....maybe?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 01, 2011, 11:43 PM:
 
I just watched the video again, twice. That cop pulled over right in front of the construction zone 40MPH sign, just as the victim passed by and he didn't go a quarter mile before the NAZI had him pulled over. Is there some sort of rule of thumb about a grace period to slow down for a change in the posted speed limit? I don't think the guy saw the sign because the squad car was in the way.

He shouldn't have accepted 40K, his wife deserved that much and he should have got a lot more and the little prick should be fired.

There was no good reason for this situation to spiral out of control the way it did.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 02, 2011, 03:52 AM:
 

quote:

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C'mon Rich, don't get all butt hurt and run off to pout with 49

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Don't you worry JD I am not pouting.

Quite frankly, I am disgusted with the attitudes exhibited here. You guys bash our profession constantly. When you bash our profession you bash each and every one of us.

We used to be able to have intelligent discussions here about law enforcement issues. These discussions I have enjoyed. Now you compare us to Nazis. That is an insult of the highest order.

Some of you are way out of line.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 02, 2011, 05:34 AM:
 
OK, IMO, Nazi or Gestapo are too extreme.

I should have used Jack booted thug instead, it would be more fitting. Calling someone a Turd or POS is much less demeaning.

[ July 02, 2011, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 02, 2011, 08:39 AM:
 
"Quite frankly, I am disgusted with the attitudes exhibited here. You guys bash our profession constantly. When you bash our profession you bash each and every one of us."

Don't forget we are all guilty until proven innocent in a cops eyes. So if the shoe fits wear it, if you're wondering how did this escalate to a tazing and costing my employer $40,000.00? Maybe you might speak up and knock some sense into your "brothers" instead of supporting this nonsense.

Remember the law says he didn't have to sign the ticket. The cop was pissed cause he couldn't prove how fast he was going and he ran into someone that wasn't going to just accept it cause he said so.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 02, 2011, 08:40 AM:
 
Oh, welcome back!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 09:02 AM:
 
Yes, of course. Welcome back, 49. Dammit, quit taking this criticism personally. I think these people are calling a spade a spade and not necessarily "gunning" for law enforcement 24/7.

I think a fricken taser is an extreme measure. VERY EXTREME MEASURE, considering the offense and the situation. How someone can take my opinion of an event and consider it as an overarching indictment of police officers in general is a little puzzling?

There must be limits to the powers they exercise and this guy was not in a personal threat situation. The citizen was simply objecting to a chickenshit ticket. You don't taser a man for mouthing off about a chickenshit ticket,

Now, IF I'M WRONG, I HAVE TO SAY, MY ATTITUDE WOULD CHANGE IN A BIG WAY. IF THIS IS LEGIT, CONDONED BEHAVIOR, POLICY ALL POLICE OFFICERS ENDORSE, THEN, I'M SORRY BUT I WOULD CHANGE MY ATTITUDE TO ANTI COP; AND NOT JUST A BAD COP SITUATION.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 02, 2011, 09:13 AM:
 
How anyone could defend THIS situation is beyond me.
I would say it's blatantly obvious to dang near EVERYONE.

Just what part of the "protect and serve" role was he playing?
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 02, 2011, 09:15 AM:
 
prezact-a-mundo.

The responses that these types of videos illict from other LEOs are quite telling & sometimes VERY disturbing.

As a civilian, when I see another LEO defending this type of aggressive behavior displayed by a public servant, it really bothers me...

This poor guy was driving a mini-van with his wife & child inside, for goodness sakes!

[ July 02, 2011, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 02, 2011, 09:26 AM:
 
"Now, IF I'M WRONG, I HAVE TO SAY, MY ATTITUDE WOULD CHANGE IN A BIG WAY. IF THIS IS LEGIT, CONDONED BEHAVIOR, POLICY ALL POLICE OFFICERS ENDORSE, THEN, I'M SORRY BUT I WOULD CHANGE MY ATTITUDE TO ANTI COP; AND NOT JUST A BAD COP SITUATION."
----------------------------------------
Well Leonard, I hate to tell you this but you are wrong this time. You watched the asshole resist arrest, and that in itself is a crime. The state paid the shit head $40,000.00 rather than proceed to Court where they more than likely would have won. Cities and states pay these damages more often than you may think, and it only serves to make the Officer look guilty. Nobody can say for certain what they would do if placed in that very same situation that the Officer found himself in.
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 02, 2011, 09:51 AM:
 
It is puzzling why our resident LEO's defend the indefensible.

Even more amazing is that you don't seem to realize that defending such behavior lowers your credibility. It crosses my mind that if your thinking is norm for "good" cops, we need to fire all cops and start with an entirely new batch of people who work for us. Surely we have not come to that, or have we?

Leonard has it exactly right, as do Duckdog, knockemdown and others.

A friend who did excellent undercover stuff, then street work and then as a dectective with the LA PD told me years ago that how a cop handled this kind of situation was a make or break test event in their ranks at that time. Bad cops escalate the situation to force control.

The cop has all of the power of the state behind him: fining, license revokation, etc. etc. He's going to win even if he lets this guy drive off at this moment. Escalating and pushing a mild confrontation into physical force is pure street dumb (almost always)-- cop or anywhere else in life.

[ July 02, 2011, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 02, 2011, 10:34 AM:
 
49er, I knew you were around I just threw that in to wake you up. Nobody is bashing cops in general but we do reserve the right to bash jack booted Nazi thugs.

Hell 49 I'm a contractor, you don't think that I hear and live with the stigma of being a crook and a thief because of my profession for the last 20 years, of course I do but I don't take it personally because I know what I'm about and what I believe, however if I were to defend the enormous amount of collusion and price fixing amongst all the other questionable behavior that I see in this industry people would certainly jump my ass and question my integrity.

You gotta sort out the disgust with wrong doing from what you perceive as a personal attack.

Rich, I actually see where you're coming from, the guy was very argumentative but I think a simple and solid explanation would suffice, I think the cop got butt hurt when the guy called him out, the real issue was the cops pride, that seems like a common thread.

With a 40,000 dollar decision I would say that we can clearly conclude that the cop is guilty, yes?

I disagree with your statement about departments paying out these settlements just to avoid the hassle of court, they have lawyers to handle the thousands of bullshit claims filed by every drunk driver or meth head they come in contact with, when they pay out 40-Gs to avoid court it's because they know damn well there was a major fuck up and going to court will likely result in a much larger settlement.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 02, 2011, 10:49 AM:
 
JD:

quote:

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I disagree with your statement about departments paying out these settlements just to avoid the hassle of court, they have lawyers to handle the thousands of bullshit claims filed by every drunk driver or meth head they come in contact with, when they pay out 40-Gs to avoid court it's because they know damn well there was a major fuck up and going to court will likely result in a much larger settlement.

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quote:

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"I just get the feeling that most/some cops stick together just like another branch of gov't workers, politicians."

DanS

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So, let me get this straight. You get the "feeling" that some/most cops "stick together"? That's a pretty radical conclusion, Dude! I'm astounded, hard to believe that you would get a feeling such as that!



gh....lb

edit: Sudden thought! I'm for more girls in law enforcement and I can't believe I said that? But, they are not usually encumbered with this macho culture shit.

[ July 02, 2011, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 02, 2011, 12:38 PM:
 
Leonard, I think you should have a "Policing the Police" forum. This time of year it would get ALL the action. Threads like these and the other police related threads see a lot of action Just a thought
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 12:46 PM:
 
I dunno? Wouldn't that tend to unfairly enflame anti police rhetoric?

edit: Oh, allright, but only for the 4th of July weekend.

[ July 02, 2011, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on July 02, 2011, 12:48 PM:
 
first off, i ai'nt a cop hater. not at all. have sevearl good huntin/fishin buds that are cops.
however, i'd like to take that smartass down and pound the livin shit outta him.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 12:53 PM:
 
Good idea! I'm not a cop hater, either. Nor am I an automotive electrician hater, a contractor hater, or a landscape architect hater. But, I'm not real fond of abusive power, wherever it may occur.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 02, 2011, 01:12 PM:
 
OK LB,
You got me. Some of that rhetoric is just CYA stuff.

Everyday, out in the real world, when I am putting my life on the line for you guys, just trying to make it through the day and get back home to my family, I also have to put up with an extreme Union liberal and self proclaimed atheist. Any statement I make , I have back up. He'll hold your feet to the fire. And he is very clever.

I maintain this dangerous life just for you guys, the public at large, and because my boss pays me pretty well.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 03:33 PM:
 
Next week, we can go after CONTRACTORS!

Just about everybody has a contractor horror story. BUT. Give it some thought. Save it for next weekend.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 02, 2011, 03:49 PM:
 
You turds deserve to be abused by contractors, you need to learn how to obey orders and write a check for the full amount BEFORE we start any work and maybe if you would quit bashing us we would treat you better and quit telling you that we'll be done in 2 weeks. And furthermore whats the big freakin deal about doubling the price when you ask us to work an extra hour or 2 ......it's only fair, just be thankful I don't have a badge and knee boots you dirt bags.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 04:10 PM:
 
I otter turn them loose on you right now, for that little diatribe, you lazy, dishonest, non skilled & jackbooted thief.

Lucky for you I'm a man of my word.

gh....lb

edit: and don't come back whining about how you are just doing your job, but you get no respect for the coveralls and the tool pouch.

[ July 02, 2011, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 02, 2011, 04:11 PM:
 
Yeah, you contractors..

When my house was built fall/winter of 93' It was those "wimp" drywallers that refused to work because high temp's were about 17 degree's.

I had to pay for another month's rent on our apartment..

Who's got a link we can post and bash on contractors ?


 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 04:59 PM:
 
I googled whiny ass contractors named JD and got 1,432, 562 hits, after narrowing it down to Nebraska.

I bet he moves around a lot?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 02, 2011, 05:19 PM:
 
I'm going over to "contractor talk" forums and telling the brotherhood that you guys are a bunch of haters.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 02, 2011, 05:20 PM:
 
If ya wanna be a POS contractor, so be it, the tax payers don't pay your salary. If you're an independent contractor there is no union to put-up for you so you are on your own. Do your work on time, on or under budget and you will rake in cash. The sleazy contractors are weeded out fairly quickly. The same can't be said for the profession this thread is discussing.
I was a siding sub-contractor for 15 yrs before the building stopped in MI. The weak and lazy only survive for so long. We'd see crews last a month and be out because they screwed off and didn't do quality work, quickly.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 05:31 PM:
 
Yeah, why don't you go suck the ninny over at contractor talk.com. People here don't understand or appreciate you anyway. You just can't admit that some contractors do not deserve, and can't handle all that power.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 02, 2011, 05:32 PM:
 
You people from the general public are all wrong, and the contractors are right. That's why they stick together. You may hire them and pay their salary, but you don't know squat about how they should treat you. You are totally wrong in your ideas about what you hired them to do, how they should do it and what the end product should be.

When any group hired by the public have contempt for the public and disagree constantly with the public regarding how they do their job, that is a clue for really alert detectives that something is badly wrong. Maybe, just maybe, the public employees are the ones who don't get it.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 02, 2011, 05:38 PM:
 
I'd respond to all this banter but it's time for a break, union rules and all.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 02, 2011, 05:58 PM:
 
I'll have you know that I run my business with integrity, I have a small crew that does top notch work, we don't need to resort to lies and gimmicks in order to charge the customer more money, in fact many of my customers offer the crew more money in the form of one dollar tips.

Here's a picture of the crew at our morning (OSHA required) safety meeting. Checking out each others "gear"
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 06:00 PM:
 
Automotive electricians are s'posed to be next, Dan, but we can move you to the front of the line if you keep it up.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 02, 2011, 06:08 PM:
 
Whatever! All Electricians have to know is wires, switches, and loads. No sweat-e-da

I'm applying for a job with JD's crew. Definitely a step up from who I am working with presently. JD, do you even have to pay the guys under your employ?

[ July 02, 2011, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2011, 06:16 PM:
 
I'm betting they do dumb things with smart phones.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 02, 2011, 07:19 PM:
 
All that contractor stuff aside, I finally had the chance to watch this video and,.... wow. That guy set the stage for this train wreck from the moment he approached the stopped car. Maybe that patrolman is trained differently than we were, but we were always required to treat the driver of the car with some sense of decency and respect. After all, it isn't like he just stopped Bonnie & Clyde, for crissakes. LOL Not to tell him or any other LEO his or her job, but the exchange should have begun with "Good afternoon/ evening/ morning, sir. I need to see your registration and proof of insurance." At this point, the driver either would or would not have been collecting that information besides, after all, you can clearly hear him admit his guilt when he said "Alright, I was going a little fast." Of course, rather than leaning into his window as this officer was doing - little too in the driver's personal space, if ya know... - he should have been slightly behind but alongside the door where he could see the driver and his passenger, but not be completely in his line of fire should the guy actually pull a weapon. Then, he might have said, in a respectful tone of voice, rather than being the smartass he was, "The reason I stopped you is because you were driving faster than the 40 mph posted limit for this road." (The driver is entitled to that information - reasonable cause for the stop.) Maybe, or maybe not, the driver would say, "How fast was I going?" to which the officer would have said, let's say, 49, for shits and giggles. "I don't think I was going that fast. Can I see your radar?" Now, if he didn't get the radar locked, he's screwed. Many times, I saw the officers I rode with not lock the speed and they ended up giving a very courteous warning while not letting on that they lacked the evidence to support the NTA. The driver simply thought the officer was one helluva good guy. On several occasions, drivers did get to see the radar because they would be asked to step back to the patrol car where they would be seated in the passenger front seat. The officer I was with would point out the driver's speed and explain to him that the radar had been calibrated prior to that very shift and that information would be entered as evidence.

Law enforcement, and the business of how the law is enforced, is a lot like hunting in that LEO's do what they do because, in our society - a society and a nation of laws - we allow you to do so. When law enforcement steps beyond what we as a society regard to be beyond the norms of our values, things must change.

Tasers are a useful tool, but this instance illustrates that they are too often used in place of good old common sense. The driver was stopped. He is on video. His license plate information is clearly visible and the officer had his driver's license information. There is no doubt who was stopped and, according to the officer, why. Unless it has changed, where I live signing the NTA only acknowledges that you will appear in court. If you refuse to sign it, the officer will simply hand you the unsigned ticket and advise you that your failure to sign does not relieve you of your obligation to appear in court. You can even throw it out the window. Same thing. You still have to be there. Seen it more than once. The officer simply, and calmly, advises the driver that his failure to appear at the scheduled day and time will result in an arrest warrant being issued for him for failure to appear. No need to raise your voice. No need to bring weapons into play. No need to risk killing someone over a traffic infraction.

As I said in other threads when the subject of defending those who do the same thing as you came up... you sure as hell don't see me jumping to the defense of every jackwagon federal employee who does some bonehead stunt that makes him or herself and those who do the same work look like a dumbass. I just don't see why there is this need to defend stupid people. The guy should have and could have handled that situation differently. Not that hard to say. And apparently, a jury agreed - a jury comprised of those same people I spoke of earlier who, in this instance, decided that they disagreed with what this guy thought he could get away with simply because he wears a badge. An asshole with a badge is still an asshole. LOL

We have a guy who works for F&G. He had some information that a bunch of 20-ish guys were violating game laws. He calls in a batallion of state troopers, sheriffs deputies and other game wardens when he approaches these guys walking out a river bend. They admitted that they'd scoped out a flock of feeding Canadas with their rifles, but they were simply looking at them and had not taken a shot. (They're all waterfowlers, too, and were sizing up the flock for a later hunt.). Anyway, long story less long, after they disarm these guys, this warden walks up to one and asks him, "So you think I'm not worth a shit, do you?" to which the guy just smiles and tells him he doesn't know what he's talking about. He then leans in close so that no one else hears him tell this young man, "A least I'll be going home alive at the end of the day."

Would you consider that a threat? Lotsa tickets written. None stuck.

Same guy checked me in the field. For the first five minutes, he was professional and checked my paperwork. When I asked him if he was done, stating that we had a lot of hunting to do that day, he said he was and as I turned to walk back to my truck, he began a rant that lasted fifteen minutes, complete with a litany of "shits", "Fucks", "God damns", and all while in uniform and on duty as he carried on about how I had supposedly caused him all kinds of grief. He had a sheriff's deputy a half-mile each way from us for backup, one of which has known me since he waited at my house with his mother when they brought me home from the hospital at 3 days old, and the other, a young man I've known since he was four years old when I served on the Fire Department with his dad. I have the entire exchange on CD as a recording from the digital recorder that was in my pocket, provided to me by my brother. The local Sheriff has a copy, as does my brother, who was in drug enforcement at the time. This particular warden sent out a warning to other area officers that I was "mentally unstable" and should be treated with "extreme caution if and when encountered in the field".

My point is this - again - there are a lot of guys with badges who maybe shouldn't have them. Not all cops are bad, but some are certainly "interesting". And still, the term "Going Postal" just won't die. LOL

P.S. - The local guy keeps track of me closely enough that it really wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't print a copy of this and wave it in my face in the not so distant future. He actually showed my old partner Matt a letter he had from my dad in which dear Dad had apologized to him for the problems I had caused over the years. Except, and Matt knew this at the time, my dad had been dead for over two years prior to the date on the letter. He told me that things got kinda weird after that.
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 02, 2011, 09:30 PM:
 
CDog...I'd be curious of that wardens name.

If you're not comfortable with that...how bout his initials.

Sounds an awful lot like a warden I "knew" about on the east side.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 02, 2011, 10:03 PM:
 
Something funnier yet, one of our MO wardens was a felon, carried a badge and a gun and made arrest and all that. He left MDC and went to the sheriffs office, they needed people with experience.

Doubt he's wearing a badge anymore. Don't know when they found out.

There were several felons working for St. Louis sheriff's dept. too a while back, TV news brought it to light, SO's had no idea.

Another Poser con'ed his way into a PD around Gerald MO, actually made several drug bust and all kinds of arrest,

You'll love this one

[ July 02, 2011, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on July 03, 2011, 08:07 AM:
 
4949 - Here's my intelligent conversation for you.

In Washington, a judge no longer has the ability to throw a ticket out for extuinuating cicumstances. The judges have instructed drivers that a ticket needs to be disputed with the officer, if we feel it is unwarranted.

Also, the officer is required to write down the speedwe are traveling, and the posted speed on the ticket itself.

I don't know if this is the same in the state where this video was recorded.

The officer needlessly escalated the situation. He is supposed to be the professional in this situation. The driver acted somewhat recklessly, but was not disrespectful, just trying to dispute the ticket. Obviously he got nervous when the officer drew his tazer and did not know how to react. AS drivers we don't go through years of training to understand what the proper procedure is when someone points a weapon at us.

I don't understand why you get so upset over our reactions to these discussions about police work on the forum. They have all been examples of terrible abuses of power. If you want attaboys and thank you's, post up some different stories.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2011, 09:46 AM:
 
Agreed, tl. You have to wonder what kind of a personnel file this officer has accumulated? If this is his normal behavior, there must be other examples? I don't know, maybe it was an unfortunate clash of personalities, but it didn't start off on the right foot for our man behind the badge. So, the mouth, the attitude, the mistakes all seemed to elicit a reaction from the citizen that made it clear he thought he was getting railroaded.

gh....lb

PS hey, you can keep it forever, if you want, but that quote from Dan, (the man) ain't all that special.
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on July 03, 2011, 11:00 AM:
 
There is new sig for you Leonard.

AS for contractor's. I had a comic in my office for years. It was a guy coming out of the Contractor's Cafe. A gal asked him, "How was it?" He replies with, "Good, but the food ended up costing double, and it took four times longer to get cooked."
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2011, 11:12 AM:
 
I LOVE IT! I bet he will too!

Good contractor joke, and like a lot of good satire, a lot of truth to it.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 03, 2011, 12:05 PM:
 
I don't get it?
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 03, 2011, 12:12 PM:
 
Anyone else wonder why that guy didn't call for some assistance? He's outnumbered by someone he apparently feels is something of a threat, he's having a heckuva time keeping track of the poor guy on the ground and his wife early on. At some point, in most situations, he probably would have called for help, assuming he wasn't concerned and more than a little bit aware that things had gone south, and more than a little bit because of how he chose to handle the situation and maybe just maybe, he hoped to get himself extricated from that mess without anyone else getting involved and hoped to God that nothing was ever said. Oops.

I don't agree with that change in Washington. You're gonna have a lot of confrontations on the street between officers and every swinging dick that doesn't agree with being inconvenienced, and that's pretty much every vehicle stop. I was always under the impression that the reason the judge was called "the Judge" was because he or she judged the actions of the accused as well as the actions of the law enforcement official in enforcing the law - the balance between those who enforce the law and those who are subject to it - as to who was in the right and who was in the wrong, including whether there was reasonable cause for the accused to have been stopped to begin with. That law basically renders the judge unnecessary and endangers the life of every road deputy and traffic cop in the state.

More thoughts on the overall behavior of that officer. Whether you're talking law enforcement, fire protection or emergency medical service, the basis for 911 and emergency services is to give regular people someplace to turn when the situation gets beyond their ability to control it. That's how it works. It's really very simple.

As a society, we chose long ago to appoint specific people to official positions with the duty and responsibility to uphold the various rules we felt were necessary to keep our social structure running properly. It has been just within the time frame that America has been a country that the idea of having a constabulary was created. Prior to that time, the laws were enforced by local militia, that being every able-bodied man between the ages of 16 and 65 who, under law, were required to have a rifle and ammunition for just such purposes, not only defense of the homeland. Then, we invented the "cop". Although these people are given special authority, they are not granted wholesale freedom to do as they wish, when they wish, and how they wish. In fact, they are (and rightfully so) held to a higher standard as protection for the people to ensure that they do not overstep those privileges. When they do, it is our duty as a society to effect the necessary changes to guarantee that peace and order are once again established and maintained. Those given badges and sworn to protect others are expected to demonstrate the utmost in judgment by how they act, and yes, how they react. Otherwise, we wouldn't arm them with guns. But, they're only human and, as mere mortals, they can and do make mistakes. No need to defend their bad decisions. Admit that what they did wasn't proper and let them take responsibility for themselves.

As I feel no responsibility to defend the actions of firefighters, EMT's, postal workers, taxidermists, outdoor writers, or blonde-headed, balding middle-aged men gone wrong, I don't see why those in law enforcement feel this compelling need to defend the actions of a guy who exercised poor judgment - 40k dollars worth of poor judgment - rather than simply acknowledging that reasonable people have the God-given right to look at that video and determine whether or not the officer exceeded the authority that we, as a society, have granted him and, if so, to demand changes be made. AS Leonard so eloquently pointed out, as LEO's you serve US and every one of you is a volunteer. You either enforce the laws in a manner consistent with how we as a society demand they be enforced, to include a measure of self restraint in doing so, or don't be surprised when we decide that your actions are outside the law as we, reasonable people see it. Whether you're the President, the Attorney General, the local dog catcher, or the constable on patrol, you represent the government and with the way things are in today's world, my advice would be for you to be careful where you step or you may find the reasonable people in this country taking back what was ours to begin with.

And, with having said that, Janet Napolitano can kiss my white ass!

[ July 03, 2011, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2011, 12:22 PM:
 
déjà vu all over again. JD doesn't get it.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 03, 2011, 01:01 PM:
 
Wow, Cdog911, that was eloquent!

Wish every local newspaper would run your latest post.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 03, 2011, 01:33 PM:
 
I often wonder why these people became cops? I imagine they are asked this in interviews and some just shine on the super genius guys in charge.

Do they really want to protect and serve? Or is it a steady job with good benefits? At least in this area the pay is good.

Could be they think Kojak was such a chick magnet that they long to be him? I dunno

Mostly, why do the good cops tolerate all the bad ones? They know damn well what's going on, and sure aren't maintaining law and order. In reality they are aiding the criminals in uniform by covering for and protecting them.

Either way, thank god they aren't contractors.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2011, 01:39 PM:
 
I'm getting it....three estimates, etc.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 03, 2011, 02:09 PM:
 
I don't understand why you guys have to say such hurtful things about contractors.

Nicely done Lance.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 03, 2011, 02:23 PM:
 
Good question, Dan, but don't think that even a significant percentage of lawmen are like this. They aren't. They might have started out with good intentions, but things change along the way. I was only in the biz for a couple years before going into EMS instead and I made the change because I felt myself changing. It's easy to start looking at everyone with a cynical eye. Everyone's a dirt bag - what we called a "signal 50" - until proven otherwise, exactly the opposite of how it should have been. I made the change to EMS and was glad I did because, for one thing, people who called 911 for me were damned glad to see me walking up their front steps. Some were literally dying to see me. My little time in LE was a good thing in that it prepared me to always be aware of the risks involved in entering into unknown situations, whereas others had to be taught to not trust anyone or anything. But, when you think that of everyone you see, you either need to change, or accept how it changes you, and I didn't like who or what I was becoming.

To his credit, one of my best friends - he stood with me when I got married - was a road deputy for many years before becoming an investigator. He came from very modest means and, to my recollection, has always been a very upstanding sort of guy. He's been beat on while on duty, and had people try to kill him, and now he deals with sex crimes, child abuse, the worst of the worst. Yet, when I watch him interact with the public, he's blind to skin color, socioeconomic status, everything. Maybe it's becuse he's seen eveything from everyone and knows that being a dirtbag doesn't stop at the top end of any certain tax bracket. Then again, maybe he's just a glass half full kinda guy and truly sees some good in everyone and hopes that by being more a public servant or working for public safety moreso than being a law enforcer, he can make a difference.

Earlier, I told of a game warden who has some issues. Sad to see. By contrast, I know another warden who, like my friend, is really trying to make a difference. He used to be here but was transferred out to another part of the state. He just received an award after he caught a guy poaching deer. But, the award wasn't for the arrest. It was for what he did afterwards.

Turns out the accused was shooting deer to feed his family - a subsistence hunter putting by and making due because of his unfortunate financial situation. Jim made the arrest, and put the guy through the system. Then, he made connections with people he knew with Hunters Feeding the Hungry to ensure the guy's family would be fed. He talked around and helped the guy find some work. He taught the man to fish for a lifetime rather than feeding him for a single day. He busted the guy's chops and changed his life because it was the right thing to do. Even when he didn't have to. No one got tased because Jim didn't look upon this guy as a dirt bag, but rather, as an opportunity to help and do the right thing because that's what he was doing the job for in the first place. Some guys just know how to use the power their given for the right reasons. And, some don't.
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on July 03, 2011, 02:54 PM:
 
You working in EMS Cdog911 you better be careful where you park that truck of yours Todd may arrest you.

Firetruck captain arrest.

Wanted to add this link Flex your rights I been checking out this site for awhile now and it has some good info. Also check out the video "Highway Robbery or: Yet Another Reason to Always Refuse Police Searches" on the front page of the site. Those guys are common "THUGS"!!!! no better in anyway than the criminals in fact they are criminals with a badge.

[ July 03, 2011, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: CCP ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 03, 2011, 04:03 PM:
 
Standard Operating Procedure being exercised by that Fire Captain who was doing what any company officer would have done in that very situation. The officer's job, under those circumstances, is traffic control as a means of protecting first responders, rescue personnel, and the victims in the accident. Every rescue agency in the country does exactly what you see in that video, and I can guaran-damned-tee you that this incident wasn't the first time this "veteran officer" saw an Engine Company use their vehicle, the very same way that the officers parked their units between the oncoming traffic and the accident scene.

In Kansas, we have laws that protect both firefighters and emergency medical personnel as they do their work. Just as you can be arrested for obstructing a law enforcement officer in the performance of their duties, you can be arrested for obstructing a firefighter and/ or EMT/Paramedic (MICT) as well.

Rescue and extrication of the victims was the primary focus of tactical operations on that scene. When that engine company pulled up, the Incident Commander (likely Med Command) had instructed him to park there simply because of the protective aspects, as well as the fact that on today's rescue units, the Jaws of Life, spreaders, etc., are pneumatic and run off the truck itself rather than being a hydraulic portable unit that can be taken off the truck, so the truck has to be within a certain distance. That Captain, and I know this because I was one, was Rescue Sector Command and, at that moment, due to most agency's SOP's, became the guy in charge on that scene while that officer just became a lacky charged with traffic control. I really wonder why he was doing all this while cars are racing around the rescue units on scene. He should have been behind the last vehicle directing traffic. Another perfect example of how some people do not know how to properly employ the power their badge gives them.

I personally would have asked my Chief to pursue obstruction charges against that officer and a shitload of disciplinary action, to boot. I only had one person arrested for that. I was working a demo derby when a car got rolled and the guy driving appeared to be hurt. My crew and I entered the arena and I was leaning inside the car assessing the driver's injuries when one of his drunk crew team picked one of the flags/ stick up off the grounds that mark the cars and slammed it on the roof of the car next to my head while ordering me to get him out of the car. I withdrew from the car, ordered a firefighter standing nearby to move the guy back. He pulled away from the firefighters and came after me with the stick. I ordered my people away from the car and requested PD in the arena. We took the driver out on a spineboard and cot, and the other guy got handcuffed and perp walked out in front of 1000 people while they laughed at him and cheered the cops on. he wasn't quite as arrogant two weeks later in court when he pled guilty to disorderly conduct and obstruction of an emergency medical technician. I did get a sincere apology, too.

[ July 03, 2011, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 03, 2011, 04:14 PM:
 
Yep that area is a little north of me, it's by the old Ford Motor plant, and McDonald Douglas Complex. The PD has a history in that area. Maybe they can settle things at the next "Guns and Hoses" boxing bouts.

Here is another Turd getting his due.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4so13VWGhlA&feature=related
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 03, 2011, 04:18 PM:
 
The corruption has just gone too far.

I wonder why this guy only got 2 years probation. Think I would have got the same treatment?

Bartender doesn't OBEY
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 03, 2011, 05:11 PM:
 
Maybe I'm just wrong, but I've learned, throughout my working life that I should never do anything that will result in my Chief, my Director, my Supervisor, or my Postmaster needing to have a conversation with me that I didn't initiate because he/ she got a phone call or visit from someone caused by a decision I made. Nothing good ever came from a dialogue that began with, "I need to see you in my office." I ask myself before making any decision if there's any chance this can go wrong and if so, what I should do to make sure it doesn't. I've jokingly shared that philosophy with my current supervisor and he thanked me for being smart enough to conduct myself in that manner. Never been fired. Never been disciplined. Not that hard to do.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2011, 06:46 PM:
 
Which is why, (apparently) that you weren't cut out for law enforcement.

just kidding! Lord, be with those starving pigmies, etc.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by J_hun (Member # 872) on July 04, 2011, 12:43 PM:
 
I'm with Rich. If the Asshole would have remained calm and done what the officer wanted him to do, he would have on his way. But no, him and his wife had to make a stupid Ass scene. Good for the officer. If you had to put up with that shit all the time I imagine sometimes they over-react. I actully thought when he came up to the drivers window , somthing bad was going to happen. My hats go out to all officers. Not a good safe job, with all the idiots running around. I live in town of about 13,000 and there are plenty of idiots driving around here.

[ July 04, 2011, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: J_hun ]
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on July 04, 2011, 04:49 PM:
 
Not me Jerry. Personnally, I feel the cop lost control of the stop, and never gained it back, thus the use of the taser. Why not just concede, let the guy go without signing....he won't out run the fact he'll still get a fine. May even be worse now. Of course, the roads are safer now, with this dumb sob lying on the side of the road with a ton of voltage running through his body.{speaking of this, is it just me, or is all the cops seem to do anymore is levy fines and generate income for their county/state?}.

Yes, I do have a definate dislike for cops. Not saying I don't like them, just start out disliking them. Maybe it will grow into a friendship, but I'm rarely disappointed. Hell, they start out thinking we are all 'turds'....just haven't been caught yet...right?

See, I live in a community of only 5000. We are basically a microcosim of larger more populated areas. So, when a local trooper stands up in the local bbq joint and says to his buddies(loud enough for all to hear) " I hope someone mouths off today. 'cause I have had a bad day, and feel like bustin' someones head". Or, a local cop arrests some guy and smashes his face on the hood of his cruiser, and all he can tell anyone is how upset he is that they won't give him the dented hood to mount on his wall. My approach to cops is reinforced.

All because the guy wouldn't sign his name. We should all do what they say right?!?! So, if they tell us all to strip down naked, enter these showers and breath deep.....its all for our own good right?

I wonder if King George thought the boys in Philly were turds?

Maintain, and Happy Independance day
 

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Posted by J_hun (Member # 872) on July 04, 2011, 05:47 PM:
 
Good points also CrossJ. We have some really small towns that main hiways go through and it does seem like they just wait for someone to speed through. Some of them can be real jerks and after awhile everybody knows about these town cops and which little towns they patrol in. Give some of these guys a badge and they think they are God!! Still a lot of idiots around though.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2011, 06:14 PM:
 
Geordie, it's guys like you is why our L.E. crew is in hiding. Hey, I'm just teasing; but I know they are a little sensitive to criticism, of any kind. When you have all that authority, you are not very receptive to ANY sort of criticism. It's a God complex, and to make it worse, they generally have an attitude that they expect a whole lot of gratitude for risking their life and doing their duty. I think it comes as a shock to know how much animosity is out there.

I'm not anti-cop. Neither am I very impressed by what they do. I wouldn't do what they do for love nor money. If you take a look at some of those YouTube videos, you will find enough additional accounts of poor police work to keep you watching all night.

Policemen need to understand that, yeah stopping a bank robbery is glory, but there are many examples of contact where honest citizens are left with a bitter reaction, repeatedly. So, what the hell do they expect?

I don't think this message board is populated by cop haters. I don't know the answer, but there is example after example of bad police behavior. As silly as it sounds, cops are no different from contractors, there are good ones and bad ones.

Deal with it folks.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by J_hun (Member # 872) on July 04, 2011, 07:02 PM:
 
Good point there Leonard, same with politicians, there are some good ones and some bad ones.
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on July 04, 2011, 07:56 PM:
 
Leonard, you touched on something that I feel is really important. Media, hollywood, even good hearted citizens have turned Fireman, policeman, emt's and soldiers into hero's. Every last one of them. I am thankful that they choose to serve their country or community. I realize that they see a lot of things on a daily basis, that the average person might not see in 20 years. However, there are heroic and courageous deeds that define a hero. It is going above and beyond the call of duty. It is risking their life for another when knowing the situation. A traffic stop, serving as a clerk in the army, administering cpr, putting out a house fire are not heroic deeds. It is just a job that involves a people. The most dangerous jobs out there are usually mining and construction. I really have a strong hatred about how the term "hero" is thrown around way to easily these days. It sort of takes away from those special few that have really done something extraordinary, not for the fame, but for the betterment of those that surround them.

This may be a backhanded compliment to the cop in the video, but he did remain calm throughout the entire situation. However, he was a little to carefree with that tazer, when there have been several deaths when using the supposedly "non-lethal" device. The other thing was he forgot to let the guy know what he was being arrested for, and explaining his options to him, hence escalating the situation. If he would have just as calmly answered a couple of the driver's questions, than the situation might have turned out differently.

About Washington's law. What I meant to say was that a driver can not get a violation reduced to a warning in the courtroom. That can only be done by pleading with the officer. We can dispute tickets, but the best you can hope for is a reduced fine, throwing the ticket out completely, a deferral where it comes off your driving record if you don't violate in the next year, or as I have recently found out, they can change the ticket to a non-moving violation which won't affect your insurance. I got my first ticket after being clean for 12 years (a 35 in a 25) and was shocked when the court clerk announced we could pay a fine for expired tabs and not have to deal with a moving violation on our record, or one year probation by taking a deferral. Good policy in my eyes, because a driver learns their lesson, without getting doubly hurt by insurance increases.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 04, 2011, 09:02 PM:
 
Geordie, for awhile now, our local heros are getting a grant that pays for overtime. Catch is they have to right more tickets so they've been writing seat belt tickets right and left, it's a cheap fine and they need to be worn but to pay overtime just kills me.
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 04, 2011, 11:25 PM:
 
HEY, HEY LB, not hiding if I am included in that mix??

I've been here since I registered, lurk more than post, as I said before.

I saw the video.

As I have stated before, someone doesn't want to sign a traffic ticket, WRITE REFUSED TO SIGN in the signature box, give the violator his copy and move on.

You write a supplemental report as to why the violator refused to sign the ticket, what was said, tell the judge you have the stop on video tape. Let the court handle the rest.

From what I could see from the video, the cop didn't even allow the guy some time to slow down as he entered the reduced speed zone before stopping him. Seems chicken shit to me.

Tasing the guy over all that. NO THANKS!!!

If what someone said that a signature is not required on Utah State tickets, then the whole mess was bad from the start.

If one doesn't need to sign the ticket, then the cops order to step out of the car is unlawful. PERIOD!!!

What concerned me the most is when the cop tased the guy, he appeared to actually fall partially into the lane of traffic.

NOT GOOD!!!! If that guy would have been hit by a passing vehicle.

People are generally VERY cooperative on traffic stops, this guy who refused to sign the ticket would be say 1 out of 200 who might get a little more than uncooperative. Speaking from my experience, not for the USA!!

Turd or not, fighting someone on the side of an interstate is some scary stuff.

The cop positioned himself on the driver side in the manner he did so he could keep an eye on approaching traffic.

It would have been better if the cop approached on the passenger side of the car. Especially on freeway stops if at all possible.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2011, 11:55 PM:
 
Yeah, you're included. Once a cop..... Now, talk to 49 and tell him he doesn't have to defend every friggin' stupid cop in the U.S.A.

gh....lb

Attention everybody, you have 5 more minutes to pick on police officers, then it's contractors, next weekend.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 05, 2011, 10:06 AM:
 
Great post, Ken.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 05, 2011, 07:25 PM:
 
When does time to pick on postal workers start? I got me some shit to spill.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 05, 2011, 08:06 PM:
 
Yea, postal workers, now these are some crazy suckers.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2011, 08:26 PM:
 
That's a self serving comment, JD. We are going to roast contractors next weekend; Boy Howdy!

gh....lb
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 05, 2011, 08:27 PM:
 
How many posts can a postal worker drive in on a good day????
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2011, 08:30 PM:
 
What do you call what you do, Tim? Just asking.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 05, 2011, 08:35 PM:
 
In the summer or winter????

Edit to add:

Are you serious or just looking for another occupation to pick on?????

[ July 05, 2011, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2011, 09:35 PM:
 
Yes, I want to put you on the roster, but I'm a little vague on what you do?
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on July 06, 2011, 12:34 AM:
 
TA doing his thing
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 06, 2011, 12:39 AM:
 
If he did all that, it's amazing he still has a job!

gh....lb
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 06, 2011, 07:29 PM:
 
Cool video Jimmy, thanks for shareing...

Can't say I've ever had anything like that happen, except for getting stuck in the muck..
I just got a safety nomination last week at work and also passed the Msha inspection today at the mine..

Leonard the primary machine I operate is a 345 cat excavator, but I'm also endorsed for the D-5,D-6,D-8, D-9 dozers, D-400 off-roads, and 627, 637 scrapers, and Motor-grader...Basicly anything with a engine.. I ecavate ditches, ponds, load highway trucks or D-400's, place pipe,build roads,building site prep work and demolition...
Here some pic's for Jimmy..
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Work/Ditch-May232010001.jpg[/IMG]] [/UR L] [URL= ] http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Work/11-25-2009026.jpg[/IMG]] http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Work/11-25-2009023.jpg[/IMG]]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 06, 2011, 08:05 PM:
 
So, you are an operating engineer? What local?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 06, 2011, 08:23 PM:
 
Leonard the company I work for is Non-union, thats the way I like it also..
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on July 06, 2011, 09:38 PM:
 
Oh boy! Here we go!!!
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 08, 2011, 02:34 PM:
 
Hello gentlemen.

I don't think I am being too sensitive, Leonard. After a while, all the negative comments here get old, if you know what I mean. Would you hang out on a forum where the membership was particulaly vocal about how they hated, disliked, or condemned the actions of California predator hunters? I seriously doubt it.

As I have stated, I do enjoy a little heated debate now and then. But when the debate degenerates into disrespect for my profession and colleagues as a whole, I am not going to participate. I am sure you can understand, if not agree.

No, I don't defend the actions of all the cops in the USA. I will defend cops if I think they are right, or if there is enough information for me to give them the benefit of the doubt until I hear facts that condemn their actions. Take the Arizona SWAT team for example. The more information that comes out, the more it looks like the cops acted properly. The rifle the decedent pointed at that SWAT team turned out to be stolen as a matter of fact.

http://www.kold.com/story/14964867/stolen-gun-found-in-dead-mans-home

The decedent is looking worse and worse. It's no wonder his wife stated she didn't know about the rifle.

Now, I will give you guys a little more telling information. If someone points a rifle at me, I am gonna shoot for center mass, just as I was trained to do. I am not gonna wait around to find out if the guy is sleepy or not. I am not gonna look to see if he is still wearing underwear. I am not going to ask him if his weapon is on safe or not. That's just the way it is. If you guys don't like that attitude, then don't point guns at cops.

I have my own opinions on this video posted by Knockemdown. This same video went around the contractor talk forum years ago. But being that we can no longer have intelligent conversations here about law enforcement issues, there is no sense in offering further perspective.

[ July 08, 2011, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 08, 2011, 02:52 PM:
 
"I ecavate ditches, ponds, load highway trucks or D-400's, place pipe,..."

I hunted with a guy once who disappeared into the underbrush to lay some pipe. At least, that's what he said he was gonna do. Same thing? Maybe not. LOL

How many posts? Hmmm, I set seven of them around my front steps a while back and decided that was too much work for a gubmint worker.

I do have to say, Tim, your job looks much funner than mine. In college, I worked in maintenance where my dad worked and mowing grass and keeping the roads up on the company's 30-acree facility was part of my duties. Had an old Fiat Allis front end loader- called her Fat Alice - that I was one of only a couple people allowed to operate it. Spent most of the time with her grading gravel roads, but that big bitch was dandy for pushing over old trees and dozing up stumps and the like. That machine was so beat up, a few more dents and scratches didn't seem to bother anyone, so I didn't ever baby her. Flushed a groundhog once and had a race down an old abandoned city street hot on its ass. LOL My boss said he could see the diesel smoke rolling out of the trees when I was going at it and always knew I was gettin'r done. I was 18 or 19 and getting paid to tear shit up. Life was good. Definitely funner than donkeying mail up and down the street.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 08, 2011, 08:19 PM:
 
I was about 17 I guess and was cutting hay for a custom baler by day and hauled it at night. Well we were finishing up on a place at Wilburton and had a few bales left one evening when I got stuck. We had already moved the tractors to another place so I went up to the office at Wooldrige oil company and asked if they had a tractor I could borrow to get unstuck.

As luck would have it the only tractor they had was a huge Cat front end loader. He asked if I could operate it and I said sure, no problem. I climbed up in it, got it figured out and scared to death, I made it through the parking lot without hitting anything. Once out in the pasture I was King! Always liked heavy machinery ever since. Cool job.

49 "Now, I will give you guys a little more telling information. If someone points a rifle at me, I am gonna shoot for center mass, just as I was trained to do. I am not gonna wait around to find out if the guy is sleepy or not. I am not gonna look to see if he is still wearing underwear. I am not going to ask him if his weapon is on safe or not. That's just the way it is. If you guys don't like that attitude, then don't point guns at cops."

I would expect no less but how many cops fail to realize we're gonna do the same thing when someone enters our home and points a gun at us? Survival is the most basic instinct.

[ July 08, 2011, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 08, 2011, 08:25 PM:
 
4949, the link you provided had a story about a police sgt that was accused of domestic violence. It's coincidence but funny nonetheless.
http://www.mykold.com/wap/news/text.jsp?sid=74&nid=55211956&cid=5971&scid=-1&ith= 6&title=News

And this...
http://dirtydozensbunker.com/showthread.php?t=85265

[ July 08, 2011, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on July 09, 2011, 12:44 AM:
 
Geez 49, you need to really participate on an attorney forum or something, they would rip you to shreds with a stupid link like that. Circumstantial and not pertaining to anything. A 3 year old gun used in a burglery. That could have been purchased at any time by the Marine. It could have been left there by a previous owner, it could be dropped by the swat team. Where was it found? Who found it? Why is this information being released? Why were those dipshits milling around in front of the door during a entry procedure. What teh hell were the follow up dipshits aiming at when they started firing blindly into a hallway? Why was the home occupied by a woman and child during entry? Don't give me a manpower bs statement either, since they had around twenty well compensated officers participating in serving that search warrant, they couldn't afford a 12 hour surveillance shift? Shit ya shoot for center mass if somebody points a gun at you. That's not telling that is common sense. Better yet, how about not putting yourself in an awkward position because of being lax and lazy, to have an assault rifle pointed at you. Why do you keep digging up bones if you don't want to talk about it?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 09, 2011, 06:27 AM:
 
BINGO! (what tl said, all of it)
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 09, 2011, 08:28 AM:
 
Trying to paint a person as a "turd" is a strategy as old as time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Releasing this information this late in the game for whatever reason is suspect.

The stolen gun found in the house should have been reported as quickly as the "bullet proof" vest and "baseball hat" that were found, along with the other items of importance.

A stolen gun is a better find than the other two items that is for sure.

We will never know if the Marine paid top dollar for the stolen pistol that he could have bought in many locations. Paying top dollar for a firearm would lead a reasonable prudent person to believe it isn't stolen. But again we will never know exactly how ALL that happened.

When one searches for dope, they search for guns. The Marine had his AR, would be a clue to look for more guns in the house.

I am sure the detectives ran the serial number of the AR to see if it was stolen. I would hope they would have done the same with ALL the other guns, THEY should have found along with the other items that brought them great concern, suggesting the Marine was part of a take over robbery crew.

Back to being painted as a "turd".

Let us reflect back to the Casey Anthony case. The prosecution painted her as a "turd". SHE is a "turd".

Knowing what I know about the system that was done as a strategy in hopes of swaying one's opinion of her just in case there MIGHT be a little doubt on other issues.

It doesn't matter how much of a "turd" a person is before or after an incident. IT DOES NOT set aside the procedures that are suppose to take place before or after an arrest, execution of a search warrant, or the prosecution of the offender.
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 09, 2011, 08:50 AM:
 
It appears so far the case with the Marine is not going to go to any criminal trial at this point.

We still have the civil aspect of this case that will no doubt take it's course.

The cops can continue to paint the Marine as the true bad guy, he might just be the local "John Gotti" of the neighborhood.

But the family attorney if he is worth his salt is going to try and paint the cops as "turds" too. He will start that little game off by filing motions to get into the cops personnel file to see if they are "turds" by trade.

The legal community, private attorneys especially, have some intelligence sources of their own these days. They too keep records and share information on cops who's names keep coming up in controversial situations.

I am not suggesting that is the case here, but if it is, it will come back to haunt those who wear badges and are considered "turds" themselves.

Time will tell that's for sure.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 09, 2011, 09:45 AM:
 
In defense of the (big deal) stolen gun. I offer no excuse, just a little story.

See, I own an AR. I bought it second hand from a guy in Pomona. He had a beard, and was therefore suspect, so I called Upland PD and asked if they could find out if this gun I was about to purchase was stolen. They said they don't do that for ordinary citizens, so I called Montclair PD. Same Bullshit. So, I called Claremont PD and they ran the number for me and it came up clean.

My point: I had very little reason to check it out, I had never checked out a private purchase before, or since but I have to wonder if the possession of a stolen firearm is a inference of something else?

Another question. Is there a way to find out if a gun has been stolen or not? I don't know? I might have a couple pieces in my safe that could get me arrested, bought at that "loop hole" place?

What do you fellas do to determine if you are dealing with a hot gun?

Victor is the highest volume trader I have ever seen. Hey Vic! What do you do?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 09, 2011, 10:27 AM:
 
Well Leonard I bought a few private party guns myself while still on the job. Ran everyone of them just to be sure.

I still have enough connections to do it again if need be.

Interesting that Upland PD would not run the gun. A simple Yes or No would save much grief for all involved. Seems Claremont is smarter than some.

I'd continue to do just what you did if you buy private party.

Of course if you do it the Commiefornia way both parties are suppose to go to the local gun shop and do all the paperwork.

Generally a dead give away is someone selling a quality firearm for WELL under what it is worth.

Watch those who have a beard who sell guns, have them smile. If they are missing all their teeth BEWARE!!!!
 

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Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on July 09, 2011, 11:58 AM:
 
I mean wow there's away to make some money right there.That is if a guy had the source and could come up whith a reliable program to run numbers and find out if guns were hot are not.
Just saying what would it be worth to be able to log on to a site log in and find out 25 or 50 bucks a year?
I have never bought a used gun in my life.I have known a lot of people in my life that I would have bought a gun from and would never thought about it.
I have known some people also that I would not have even touched one of there guns.
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on July 09, 2011, 02:41 PM:
 
Don’t know how things are done now when you have a stolen gun. Back in the early 90’s a friend of mine that ran a pawn shop called and said he had a XP in good condition and knew I was looking for one. He also knew I had a pistol he wanted and said he wanted to trade. I took it to him and we made a trade but when he called it in it came up stolen. He called the city cops in like he should and they ask where I got it, but I could not remember. They took the gun and said they would contact me and I was out of a trade for now.

The next day when I and the sheriff met for breakfast he said he would check on the situation for me. All they did was contact the owner of the gun and he said the insurance company had paid off on the contents of his home that were stolen, and he had already replaced the gun. So the police dept (or whoever) logged the gun back in as not stolen and I got the gun back and made the trade. It was actually no hassle at all, but things being the way they are in today’s world I don’t know what they would do.

I should have checked the gun for I had the means to do it but at the time I was trading so much stuff back in fourth that a lot of guns I didn’t have more than a few days. In this case I had that gun for over a year so there was plenty of time to check. My bad but it worked out.

BTW Festus your last 3 post were pretty dang good and I see no need in doing any internet judo on ya
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 09, 2011, 02:50 PM:
 
Thanks CCP. I want you all to know the challenge of making a presentation on this board is FAR more of a challenge than dodging bullets or wrestling with turds on the streets!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 09, 2011, 03:05 PM:
 
Whatever, but I'm still chewing on 49's most recent post. I don't know what the hell to do with him? He either needs a hug or a kick in the pants.

Challenge? What challenge? Just because you can say anything you want? I would think that would bring comfort?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 09, 2011, 05:01 PM:
 
LOL LB, I knew that one would wake up the Warden!
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 09, 2011, 06:17 PM:
 
I received this picture of Heinrich Himmler plotting out the next Gestapo raid from a concerned board member who noticed the pictures hanging on the wall above Himmlers planning table, make of it what you will but I find it a little bit suspect, don't you 49?


[ July 09, 2011, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 09, 2011, 06:40 PM:
 
Hooduh thunk?!?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 09, 2011, 06:44 PM:
 
OMG!

Is that legit?

gh....lb

edit: is that the same guy on the left side in the photograph that is on the wall; and the storm trooper seated on the far left seated at the table?

[ July 09, 2011, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 09, 2011, 08:51 PM:
 
I agree, Festus has done well.

Now I forget, why is it the cops are wearing masks now?
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 10, 2011, 08:20 AM:
 
4949,
One of the best things about you is that you actually come to a place where non-cop citizens discuss things. Too many hang out where they only talk to others in their profession and reinforce a closed loop.

On the other hand, your adjustment to open discussion by average citizens is obviously difficult and painful. Hang in here. It is good for all of us. Contrary to your perception, all cops have not been disrespected here, but no cop has been given carte blanche.

Apparently this is a difficult concept within copthink, but questioning one cop's action is not disrespectful to the whole profession.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2011, 09:12 AM:
 
Well said, Amigo.
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 10, 2011, 09:39 AM:
 
Leonard; when I buy/sell a firearm, most times it is from one of the two online forums I follow, which have pretty good classifieds.
When Im selling/buying, we designate a halfway meet place, Tucson, if they are in Phx, Benson if they are in Tucson. Usually meet up at a parking lot in Wallmart,or truckstop, look at the goods up close, shake hands and do the deal.
It's become fashionable for the forum guys to offer up their CCW and drivers license when buying. I always wave them off when they reach for their wallet and advise them Im not law enforcement, the only thing I request to see is cash, they grin and we make the deal.
If a guy has made the request to see that kind of info in his post,and we correspond, I let it be known my thoughts on the CCW/driver license thing, and we agree not to folllow that formality, or I tell him Im not interested, I just don't do that jig.
Im a private citizen, so is he, I neither request, nor offer any documents other than currency. If I got a gut feeling about the buyer, I might not do a deal, but that has not been an issue, and Ive done many many deals this way.
Buying a "hot" firearm just never enters my mind, and if it is, I didn't steal it, simple as that? Now....I have "stole" a few in my dealings, but only from the guy I bought it from:)

[ July 10, 2011, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2011, 09:51 AM:
 
So, where is half way now; Houston?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2011, 09:55 AM:
 
I guess that's what I do, but on a much smaller scale. I only had that "feeling" the one time, but every other time I have done a private purchase, I never gave it a thought, including my most recent project, the 22/243 Middlested I bought from Mercer Lawing.

gh....lb

edit: BTW I have another question. Do you request a bill of sale? I had one offered once and requested one, once.

[ July 10, 2011, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 10, 2011, 11:21 AM:
 
Okanagan, interesting analogy, but spot on in reality.

The younger the cop entering into the system, the stronger the loyalty. Could be a good thing, might be a bad thing?

Culture and tradition can be overwhelming for the young minds.

I know of several departments around here that will do their best not to hire someone 30 years of age or older. Especially if they have been a cop somewhere else.

Their thought process is, they are already set in their ways, have their own opinions and cannot be reprogramed to THEIR philosophy. A little deep for most people, but it's true.

Indoctrination I think is the right word to use. Some places brain washing might also be an explanation.

Only until one generally get's shit on by the system he has been loyal too, does one wake up sit back and reflect on any given number of issues.

Of course that would apply to many professions, I am sure.

One thing I strongly believe in, if you don't pay attention to the changing tide whatever it is, you will become a victim in your own world.

If one has paid attention to life around them, they will see that those your are loyal too will throw your ass under the bus if it comes down to YOU or ME.

One's experience and battles set's the mindset of how one will react and respond to challenge.

If you have handled problems the same way for 20 years, and the solutions works for you without consequence, then keep doing things that way.

If controversy surrounds you at most endevors, THINK about change or suffer the results down the road.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 10, 2011, 01:24 PM:
 
You know Leonard started this "project" as a look into the mind of a cop and in that deal, 49 got a look into ours. I'm sure both sides were shocked to see what was inside...

However, the difference between us isn't that much, neither side wants to be disrespected and in the end, I'm sure both sides have been reminded of that. Maybe some good will come of that.

49 had the balls to come here and frankly took the "abuse" better than I would've. He earned our respect even if we won't always agree on every issue and I hope he does understand that when we question a bad cop incident we ain't questioning them all.

Well most of the time anyway;)
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2011, 01:43 PM:
 
Well, yes. That's what the contractor thread is all about. Parody. And, yes I give him credit for mingling with civilians, and a few less points for inability to see things from a different perspective.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 10, 2011, 01:57 PM:
 

quote:

---

and a few less points for inability to see things from a different perspective.

---

quote:

---

The difference between you and I is that one of us sees the glass as half empty and the other sees the glass as half full.

---

Some might say "the darn glass is twice as big as it needs to be".
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 10, 2011, 02:41 PM:
 
Lol.

Oh, JD the pictures are pretty funny.
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 10, 2011, 03:05 PM:
 
Agreed 49, in 2011 one must decide if the general public in seeing the glass as half full or half empty.

I think it is smart to go with the majority opinion. The majority opinion does not seem to favor LE right now since they are part of the government.

One can always be safe and remain silent.

I know what we can do, blame Knockemdown for starting this thread and LB for allowing it, YEA that's the answer LOL!!!

[ July 10, 2011, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Ken ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2011, 03:59 PM:
 
49, do you really think we are all sipping kool aide? Personally, I don't think the membership is any more anti police than the general population. I think they are critical of some stupid stuff and deservedly so. And, I think they are quite capable of understanding what is fair and necessary.

I think L.E. has a bunker mentality and don't blame them, at all. Now, do automotive electricians hang together? Do contractors? Truck drivers? No, I don't think so, they mix with the population about like everybody. Not so with cops. They know everybody is against them and therefore, they stick together, and therefore they have a very narrow concept on a lot of issues.

I don't have the answers, but as I have said and others have said, you get points for at least trying to convert us. Which ain't gonna happen, BTW.

So, calm down.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 10, 2011, 04:33 PM:
 
That's the part of this I;m not jiving with.
By posting that video & speaking out against certain police actions, I'm not blanket generalizing ALL LEOs.
Yet, 49 seemingly does just that & conveniently labels those of us who voice a grievance regarding some of LEO's questionable actions as 'cop haters', or whatever.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I don't hold any of this personally against 49, that's simply human nature.
When one is put in a defensive position, basic survival instincts kick in. Identify the threat and direct your defenses to those deemed to pose the most iminent danger.

It's all good on my end...
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on July 10, 2011, 04:42 PM:
 
Yeah 4949, we "Discuss" all kinds of stuff, sometimes covering three or four different subjects on one thread, but in the end, we end up taking care of each other.

I knew those pictures weren't our buddy Tim. There was no shiny bucket on the head of any of those equipment operators. (LOL)
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 10, 2011, 05:07 PM:
 
You bought a high performance barrel burner from a cage maker? How about a 257 STW with only a "few rounds" thru it. I was going to rebarrel it, but now I know there may be a market for it I will sell it.

[ July 10, 2011, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 10, 2011, 06:15 PM:
 
Leonard, I don't know what brought on your last post?

Guys, I can understand your being skeptical of the actions of (SOME) police officers you have dealt with, read about, or seen videos of. But when the "discussion" degenerates to the point of disrespect, I ain't gonna participate.

Disagree vehemently and I am okay with that. Show disrespect towards me, my brothers and sisters, or my profession and I will turn it off.

Take this video posted by Knockemdown. I don't think the officer in question handled himself properly. But we aren't getting anywhere with disrespectful remarks such as "Nazi."
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2011, 06:30 PM:
 

quote:

---

You bought a high performance barrel burner from a cage maker? Dan, (the man)

---

You got me, I have nothing to say in my own defense. I should know better, but I wanted something and didn't have the stomach for the long drawn out project. Been there/done that.

But, It's shooting good, plenty good enough as a gun for day stands.

257STW? Wow, just what I need!

A cage maker? Mercer can hunt, dude. Check out this little dialogue between him and Fruit Loops over on Trapperman.

gh....lb

edit: http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2631055/all/camtrip_vs_briarpatch_cages.html

(thanks to Joel Hughes for the heads up)

[ July 10, 2011, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on July 10, 2011, 06:48 PM:
 
LOL....he invented hunting from a ladder, and now he has invented cage trapping.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 10, 2011, 07:07 PM:
 
Scott told me he liked Mercer and respected his abilities. However, Scott made friends with a local cage maker and the guy helped get him started in cat caging. Unfortunately Mercer took it the wrong way and got pissed at Scott for talking up the other guys cages. I have some of Mercer's cages coming my way next month.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2011, 07:12 PM:
 
There used to be this comedian called himself Professor Erwin Cory, World's Greatest Authority.

That's Fruit Loops. He sure seems to know a lot about everything.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 10, 2011, 07:15 PM:
 
c'mon 49....nobody called you a Nazi, do some cops deserve being called a Nazi....damn right they do! Don't take that personally, if any of us thought YOU were a Nazi you could rest assured that we would tell you so. I'm glad you found the pictures to be humorous, I was concerned you would get pissed and shoot me!
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 10, 2011, 07:46 PM:
 
I personally believe "Mr Fruit Loops" looked pretty good in the thread. His lack of attitude and name calling are one of his greatest assets. He is more than a match for any internet commando. I might add he kills a hell of a lot predators each year, and does it the old fashion way, not with a keyboard!
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 10, 2011, 08:23 PM:
 
49, this eveing I caught part of a show that showed cop's dashcam videos and close encounters.

One of the videos showed a late night stop where a cop walked up to the window on suspected dui and the driver opened the door and shot the cop in the face. It was a black man and I was trying to will the officers gun out of his holster and shoot this black sob dead.

Does that make me a racist? Am I still a cop hater?

Another one showed a high speed chase and crash, everyone was out but one person who was stuck, one officer went into rescue mode when a white trash punk pulled a gun and shot him. Again I was rooting for the cops to shoot this POS (turd) and felt a sigh of releif when they finally did.

Am I down on whitey? A cop hater?

Each situation should be handled as it's own, if a cop is out of line, I'll say so and react in disgust. Same as with any other human being if they put themselves above the law.

Except automotive electricians of course, those guys are under alot of stress and deserve a break.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 10, 2011, 08:31 PM:
 
Forgot, your profession is honorable but not everyone who pins on a star is. It's just a fact of life.

I could understand if you were outraged that these "officers" were out of line and pointed out where they went wrong and where the "turds" went wrong. But to defend em all as your brothers just doesn't make sense and is a disservice to your profession. IMHO;)
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 10, 2011, 08:55 PM:
 
49, on a side note, are the women in "Joysy" really like the ones on the "REAL HOUSWIVES" of New Jersey show ?

Just wonderin'
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 11, 2011, 01:34 PM:
 
Lol Dave, some of them are like that show. Not so much around here though, as I live in a more or less rural county.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 11, 2011, 01:37 PM:
 

quote:

---

Forgot, your profession is honorable but not everyone who pins on a star is. It's just a fact of life.

I could understand if you were outraged that these "officers" were out of line and pointed out where they went wrong and where the "turds" went wrong. But to defend em all as your brothers just doesn't make sense and is a disservice to your profession. IMHO;)

---

Tom, I have seen people unfit for police duty come and go. I have even seen some bad cops go to jail. You aren't telling me something I don't already know.

But which cops are you referring to? I can't call foul if I don't see one.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 11, 2011, 01:41 PM:
 
Houston we have a problem...

Let's see, the philly cops, the less than professional swat team in AZ, the Utah cop, the squirrel macer. Did I forget anyone?

That better?

[ July 11, 2011, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 11, 2011, 02:09 PM:
 
Well I have already said the Philly cops were out of line for their attitude and demeanor.

I have already said the AZ cops were tactically deficient for bunching up in front of the doorway of the decedent's residence.

And I have already said the officer in knockemdown's video didn't handle himself properly.

Edit: And I don't appreciate your "twat" team comment. If we are going to continue with the disrespectful comments I will be terminating my participation in this conversation.

[ July 11, 2011, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on July 11, 2011, 02:47 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2011, 03:09 PM:
 
Geordie! What's wrong with you? All the man wants is what any control freak wants, and you roll your eyes!

Come on 49, I thought it was a funny, yet crude double entendre. Even kinda clever, especially coming from an Okie. TWAT TEAM instead of SWAT TEAM.

And since you aren't a member of either of those teams, what's the beef? I have heard a lot more disrespect than that.

We don't censor crude, rude or disrespectful, unless it is directed towards the host. Then, maybe?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 11, 2011, 03:40 PM:
 
There has been enough disrespect thrown around this forum towards law enforcement. You guys can say what you want. I will post when I want.

[ July 11, 2011, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2011, 03:43 PM:
 
<yawn>
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 11, 2011, 03:45 PM:
 
You guys just don't get it.

Perhaps I should make deragatory remarks toward automotive electricians etc.

How about some deragatory remarks about California Predator Hunters. I am sure that would be appreciated.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 11, 2011, 03:54 PM:
 
4949 if you have a beef with Cal pred hunters, contractors, auto electricians, or even donut shops, (I threw that in just for you) say it.

I don't think anyone would get their balls too frosted if you back it up.

Hell we argue amongst ourselves quite a bit. Hounds-men and callers have been known to stir it up a bit, now and then, and people who save hides compared to those that don't.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 11, 2011, 04:17 PM:
 
In the spirit of fairness, I'll open the floor to any 'waste management' criticisms any of you may have about waste managers gone wild.
But please, reserve the 'turd' remarks for the our beloved LEOs to burnish, so use your imangination here, people!

Oh yeah, don't be disrespectful, or I'll take my toys and GO HOME!!!

AS YOU WERE <spoken with command voice>
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2011, 04:57 PM:
 
No, I don't think we get it, 49?

You need some positive reinforcement over on Glocktalk, let your hair down and tell them about all the big meanies at Huntmasters. Tell them that you're fed up and you just can't take it any more. It's good therapy, I think that's what you should do.

gh....lb

edit: sudden thought. Where is TWAT Team so worse than TURD?

[ July 11, 2011, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 11, 2011, 05:45 PM:
 
Leonard for you and knockemdown, the term isn't any more disrespectful than turd. The difference is, I don't refer to anyone you know, work with, associate with, hunt with, or share group status with, in any disrespectful manner.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 11, 2011, 06:13 PM:
 
Fred, Well I'll tell ya what...

Just last week, I trimmed my rose bushes, filled up two garbage cans. Guess what ? I picked them after after collection and one was still half full..

Anyway, I signed up over @ waste management.com and posted my complaint over on their forums..

We'll see what happens..

[ July 11, 2011, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 11, 2011, 06:25 PM:
 
Dave,
HOW DARE YOU imply that a fellow 'brother in trash' waste collection officer would do such a thing without sufficient evidence!?!

You homeowners are all alike!

Obviously, have no grasp or appreciation of the risks a waste collection officer takes on a daily basis to insure that your trash is removed. And I don't care how impartial you THINK you are, you'll never understand we what have to go through, until you've walked in our shoes.

Poppeeecock!!!

<taking tongue out of cheek>
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2011, 06:48 PM:
 
He doesn't understand parody....and, while we are at it, those waste management jokers can get pretty darn bent out of shape from very little criticism, (like) they stink like the garbage. Can't handle that! It's alway their life on the line but they get no respect whatsoever.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 11, 2011, 07:03 PM:
 
Yep I guess I don't understand.

Well anyways, I see the attitudes here haven't changed.

No need for concern though Leonard. I won't malign you, your members, are your forum in any manner.

Good hunting!
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 11, 2011, 07:33 PM:
 
Hey Nick, I disagree, I think you need to malign others. In particular those in "Waste Management" ..Automotive Electricians..

And worse yet..CONTRACTORS..

Those bastards anyway..

[ July 11, 2011, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 11, 2011, 08:23 PM:
 
Dammit!!! I didn't even know there was such a thing as a TWAT team, if I sign up will I get to kick open the front door and hose her down?

Nick, you sure are sensitive as of late.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 11, 2011, 09:06 PM:
 
Hey bros' the TWAT..Team..Ain't got nothin' to do with the A-Team..Does it ?..Those are some bad ass dudes, know what I mean..

I wouldn't screw with Mr.T on my best day.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2011, 09:32 PM:
 
49, why would you have any expectations of a change in attitude? I think you need to face reality, police officers are not well thought of by the general public. Your best chances are probably with, (guess who?) the white population. Once you consider blacks and other minorities, you really slide downhill.

You need to reconsider your world view. The membership here is just about average, they pay their taxes, they are patriotic, law abiding, stuff like that.

But, they take a very hard look at police misconduct. Why are you surprised? Quit defending bad behavior.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 12, 2011, 02:43 AM:
 
I don't defend bad behavior Leonard. See my above post to Tom. It is not bad behavior to fire on someone who points a rifle at you.

I don't like the conduct of some of your members Leonard. As you know, I am all for heated debate. This is one of the reasons I have kept coming back here. But I ain't gonna tolerate disrespectful comments or personal attacks. I don't tolerate disrespect from people around me and I certainly won't tolerate it from people behind a keyboard.

You and I don't see eye to eye on certain issues Leonard. I don't believe we ever will.

It is what it is.

Good hunting.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 12, 2011, 06:12 AM:
 

quote:

---

I don't tolerate disrespect from people around me and I certainly won't tolerate it from people behind a keyboard.

---

Is this a 'Taser-able' offense

c'mon 49, can't ya see the humor in that one???

Ya gotta lighten up & learn to laugh at your self, for goodness sakes!!!
We're not disrespecting YOU, just poking a little fun & trying to make a point.
Nobody is asking you to sell out & turn tail on all of your fellow LEOS, so ya don't need to keep the stalwart position you've entrenched yourself in.

Take it for what it is, some off-season, online pokin' & proddin'...

AS a token of friendship, I'd like to send you this t-shirt:
linky

unless you prefer this more subtle design?

[ July 12, 2011, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 12, 2011, 07:37 AM:
 
Nick, again I will say coming from the agency you do with the culture it has had over several decades, all these comments should be nothing to you.

Even more so having been a supervisor for several years.

I would think you have experienced some very disrespectful New Jersey residents in your time?

What did you do to them when they popped off?

Your comment to me about being on target, but albeit I am bitter towards the system MEANT what?

A number of ways one could take that. Myself I am in a much better position to judge the system from a couple of different perspectives. Bitter or loyal to the regime, it only matters if I am telling the truth on the particular issue.

That's why I talked about a couple of topics in greater detail than most would and reached down into the deeper aspects of the profession.

I don't believe one can bridge a gap if they are selective on the topic at hand.

I think you made a serious mistake when you came to this website trying to bridge the gap as you call it, and didn't post your resume from the get go. It was obvious you were a cop, but didn't lay down the ground work for the citizens to understand who you were or what qualifications you had.

When you go to court and attempt to classifie yourself as an expert witness don't you have to establish your credentials before the court?

It's not about bragging it's about credibility.

I believe anyone who attempts to establish him or herself and being "in the know" must show others who are listening they do in fact know what they are talking about. The court of popular opinion is far more critical.

ALL of us know many cops,lawyers,judges. JUST because they have a title attached to their name DOES NOT mean they are in the know or have done anything in their careers that is noteworthy or entitles them to some HERO status until it is clear they are deserving of such.

I know MANY a veteran cop who when you dig into their careers have DONE NOTHING other than to come to work and punch the time clock.

So am I going to bow down and give them some extrodinary KUDOS just because of their title? NOT ME!!!

Me an you went downhill at first, but I called you to get a better feeling before I continued.

No doubt we will agree to disagree on more than a few issues.

WE both know that many will disrespect you from the position of safety. Only the most deticated asshole will do it face to face.

I would only worry about those who are willing to do it face to face if they targeted me, otherwise no biggy.

[ July 12, 2011, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Ken ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 12, 2011, 08:32 AM:
 
This whole drama is laughable at best, what personal attacks? There are none, only things that 49 took personally.

For krist sake get over it, there are heated debates about all sorts of stuff on this board and nobody, until now, has thrown a dramatic fit and taken their ball and gone home. Arrrrgh!!! The estrogen levels in this thread are getting to be unbearable!

I'm gonna go kick a door and shoot someone.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 12, 2011, 08:48 AM:
 
I'm tapped out? I have been sitting here pondering this particular page and wondering how it got to this point and what, if anything to do about it?

Okay. Generally worthless commentary follows...

Cops are going to get jumped when they fuck up, probably disrespectfully so. If that bothers somebody, that's just too friggin' bad. I think defending questionable behavior will backfire, and has.

So, cops punch time clocks? I didn't know that?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 12, 2011, 11:13 AM:
 
SOME GUYS HAVE ALL THE LUCK!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013870/Robber-broke-hair-salon-beaten-black-belt-owner-kept-sex-slave-days--fed-Viagra.html

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on July 12, 2011, 11:23 AM:
 
What a horrific ordeal for him, he must be devistated...poor bastard.

LB, I'm more curious to know what you were searching for when you came across this little tidbit...exactly what keywords pulled up the article for the Viagra feeding Russian rapist??? LMAO!!!
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 12, 2011, 12:05 PM:
 
Sorry LB, punching the time clock for cops is a figure of speech.

I meant they come to work and only have to do what they must, and they can't wait to punch out or leave for home on time.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 12, 2011, 03:33 PM:
 
Ken, I expect these kind of comments you mention from the anti-police cross section of the public. I don't expect them from people I "hang out with," even if it is on internet forums. My friends don't act the way some do here. If they did, they wouldn't be my friends. And yes, I do have friends that aren't cops.

I thought you knew what I meant by my statement to you. You didn't question it in your first response, but for some reason you did in your second. After you called me, we both realized we obviously agree for the most part, ie, "speak the same language." Though we do have different experiences, you coming from a corrupt agency has understandably tainted your view toward law enforcement. My experiences have been different from yours, which allows me to have a more positive perspective. If you had worked for my agency for 20 years you might feel a bit differently today. Of course, I am bitter and cynical about things. We in LE are all to some extent. My wife has even noticed it. She made a comment to me last summer, as we have some LEO friends who work for the smaller departments around where we live. She tells me these friends don't have the same bitter attitude I do towards people, because working in small towns they don't deal with the same "caliber" of people I have dealt with for the extent of my career. To be honest, this observation from my wife surprised me, because I didn't even know she thought about these things. Pretty smart on her part, I must admit. I think I will keep her around for a while.

I will disagree with one thing you have said though. I don't feel it was necessary to post my credentials here. Yes, we must do it in court. However, I am not in court. Or am I?

[ July 12, 2011, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 12, 2011, 03:41 PM:
 

quote:

---

Cops are going to get jumped when they fuck up, probably disrespectfully so. If that bothers somebody, that's just too friggin' bad. I think defending questionable behavior will backfire, and has.

---

No problem Leonard. Like I have said, you and I don't see eye to eye on certain things. And that ain't gonna change, cuz I ain't gonna change.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 12, 2011, 04:12 PM:
 
49,
So then, have you always held a bitter attitude toward people? Or did your attitude change as a result of your experiences as an LEO?
From what you wrote, it sounds like you've become jaded over time?

Understandable, given your profession. But if that is indeed the case, is this evolution (change) in your attitude toward "caliber of people" you deal with continually eroding?
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 12, 2011, 04:39 PM:
 
I can't say for sure if I was bitter towards people prior to LE. I guess we would have to ask my parents that question. But there is no doubt that I became increasingly bitter towards people as my time on the job increased to a point. Then I reached a certain point in my job maturity where I began to mellow out some. I am not the same person now with over 22 years experience as I was when I had 5, 10, or 15 years. My LE friends have joked about how I have become more mellow over time.

Why do you ask, knockem?

[ July 12, 2011, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 12, 2011, 05:19 PM:
 
I ask because that 'jaded' mentality that you admit to developing over time "on the job" is more than likely not limited to only you. Likely, it is a common occurance amongst LEOs. I don't think its stretching to draw that conclusion?

Anyhoo, that 'jaded' outlook toward civilians is exactly what gets us turds all up in arms! And I think that type of attitude is directly resultant of that fella catching a Tasering in the video.
Had that LEO seen the situation for what it WAS, instead of going on 'jaded autopilot', that situtation never would have happened.

Cops have to deal with azzholes, crooks & criminals. But they also have to deal with otherwise law abiding civies, too.
If an LEO totes around a 'jaded' mentality with his badge, then guess who gets the short end of the stick as a result?

And if an LEO has a 'jaded' outlook, isn't it reasonable to assume that it could negatively affect his handling of a civilian interaction?

That's the whole point of speaking out against
the behavior in the video & the other situations discussed here.

So, one more question, for the record.

IF an LEO will admit he's 'jaded' toward people, how can that same LEO maintain that it doesn't affect how he performs his sworn duty to PROTECT & SERVE those very same people?

Could you possibly explain?

[ July 12, 2011, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on July 12, 2011, 05:27 PM:
 
I've read every post on this thread and have'nt chimed in cuz i ai'nt got a dog in this fight but i think 4949 has handled himself purdy well.as for getting jaded over time?? i'll bet EVERY LEO has to some degree. they'de have to!!!!! i've been a opinionated person since i can remember. used to have some black,mexican,indian buddies. now i see black,mexican,indian and i damn near turn red. i've LEARNED that when i see one, i can bet their up to no good. at least around here. jaded, you bet. i would make a horrible LEO. .I hunt/fish with several officers. when they step away from the badge they talk JUST like me
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 12, 2011, 06:13 PM:
 
I swore I wasn't gonna bait the hook anymore but I have to make an observation to what we've learned here in this thread.

If you wear a badge;

You may call the little people names.
You have the right to kill someone if they point a gun at you.
You develop a jaded attitude and lump all little people in the same "turd" group.

If you don't wear a badge;

You may not call names or otherwise belittle the cops.
You must trust the cop pointing his gun at you even if you don't know he's a cop or why a group of men just broke into your house.
You must prove yourself non turdlike while being tazed in handcuffs.

Sound fair to anyone?
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 12, 2011, 07:17 PM:
 

quote:

---

IF an LEO will admit he's 'jaded' toward people, how can that same LEO maintain that it doesn't affect how he performs his sworn duty to PROTECT & SERVE those very same people?

Could you possibly explain

---

quote:

---

If you wear a badge;

You may call the little people names.
You have the right to kill someone if they point a gun at you.
You develop a jaded attitude and lump all little people in the same "turd" group.

If you don't wear a badge;

You may not call names or otherwise belittle the cops.
You must trust the cop pointing his gun at you even if you don't know he's a cop or why a group of men just broke into your house.
You must prove yourself non turdlike while being tazed in handcuffs.

Sound fair to anyone?

---

quote:

---

I've read every post on this thread and have'nt chimed in cuz i ai'nt got a dog in this fight but i think 4949 has handled himself purdy well

---

Thank you Bear.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 12, 2011, 07:52 PM:
 
Well I will say one thing about this place...it certainly has been entertaining!
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on July 12, 2011, 10:03 PM:
 
Entertaining, insightful, and at times hurtful to those who are in actuality friends to some degree. By friends I mean we do share hunting and shooting and being men... not a bunch of women!

We will always have disagreements and we will never fully understand what a person is going through that triggers what gets said here.

I personally have several LEO friends that I would back up anytime and I also have LEO acquaintances that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire... same goes for others in general.

I come here because I like to hear the arguing "OF" different viewpoints. I often come away with a little different outlook but I'm not changing for anyone and I don't expect any of you to change either.

When the shit really hits the fan I want to have folks like the ones here shooting with me and not at me... simple as that.

Time for a JD and cola!

Edit:

quote:

---

By friends I mean we do share hunting and shooting and being men... not a bunch of women!

---

No offense intended for the wonderful ladies that post here!!!

[ July 12, 2011, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 12, 2011, 11:09 PM:
 
Good post Niko, but if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion......you should try Jim Beam black with a touch of Squirt.
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on July 12, 2011, 11:23 PM:
 
I do enjoy my JD but I might give that a try.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 13, 2011, 05:47 AM:
 
Bear, I agree & think 49 has handled himself just fine.

49, Ya gotta stop looking at this as a 'witch hunt' against you. I'm not diggin' this info up to slap you in the face with, you're offering it up on a silver platter...

I'm trying to draw correlations to help us turds get a grasp on understanding police behavior. And you've been very insightful with sharing from your perspective. Gotta have two sides for a debate, you just happen to be on one side & I happen to be on the other...

And shucks, I wish you didn't pull the "you don't know me" crap. That sounds like something a dysfunctional Jerry Springer/Maury guest would scream back at a raucous audience.
You don't know me either, so WTF difference does it make?

quote:

---

IF an LEO will admit he's 'jaded' toward people, how can that same LEO maintain that it doesn't affect how he performs his sworn duty to PROTECT & SERVE those very same people?

---

quote:

---

I am the big, bad police man. That's what you want to hear right?

---

Ummm....NO?
I don't think you are a big, bad police man at all. Not by a long shot.

So listen to your wife & quit being so bitter, LOL!

B.T.W. If you recall, I extended an offer to hook up with you sometime for a coyote hunt. I just re-upped my PA furbearer's license. Could be fun & at the very least you might could figure some legal justification to TASER me along the way!

[ July 13, 2011, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 13, 2011, 07:16 AM:
 
If you showed up at my house for a hunt, wearing that black thong; hell, I would taser you!

I agree that 49 does fine in comportment and spelling.

But in his choice of issues and the extreme lengths to arrive at justifications that always seems to exonerate bad behavior, I can admire his dedication, if not his predictable opinions.

Well, where would we be, without a little conflict, now and then?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 13, 2011, 10:43 AM:
 
Nick in answer to your statement that I agreed with you about being bitter towards the system, you are correct, I did and do.

But with a little reflection on your statement, IF there was a suggestion or belief that my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt because of my bitterness, then I would say use caution on that premise. IF that is the case.

I might be bitter, but my eyes and ears are still good enough, I won't call BS on cops and their actions if the evidence is there to support their actions. I will not downplay obviously bad conduct or piss poor tactics just to back up the brotherhood, NEVER have.

IF that would make me less of a cop according to standards from other agencies, THEN I am guilty as charged.

If I was attempting to make a name for myself or screw with you, I would have done that long ago.

What I saw, and I will not budge on that opinion was your VERY clear pattern of saying the cops maybe screwed up, BUT the citizen is a TURD.

The TURD was out looking for trouble by tape recording or video taping the cops, or he or she should have obeyed commands, even though the commands MAY not have been lawful in the FIRST place. We will agree to disagree on all that.

Like I said the law may look at the perp as a TURD, but it won't always, especially in 2011 set aside bad police procedure or constitutional rights either.

Being stupid and an asshole is NOT a crime. BUT yes it might compound an exsisting problem. It will be decided on a case by case basis, not a blanket defense for bad behavior on the part of the police.

If I see someone trying to suggest otherwise it is my nature to call bullshit on that. BUT I will attempt to explain that call in greater detail than the one who gave a one or two line statement suggesting the cops or person is right or wrong.

Just like that video of the Judge going to his courtroom and is confronted by the guy asking the judge why he held someone in contempt of court for wearing a hat in his courtroom.

The judge lies his ass off saying the reporter THREATENED him. THAT type of conduct I have never tolerated or WILL EVER support.

IF anyone should try and explain that away whether an LEO or citizen I will call bullshit on that.

I don't give a shit if someone get's butt hurt by my comments, if their feelings get hurt and they feel their GOOD WORD is being attacked.

As to fellow cops or just friends in general, if your friends are your friends and paying attention to each other, they should be telling one there might be an obvious problem with your demeanor or character GOOD or BAD!!!

I am sorry to say that few cops had the balls or forsight to see a train wreck coming down the road with a fellow cop, whether it be bad behavior,alcohol abuse, and the worse case, SUICIDE.

Peer pressure among cops is a very strange topic all by itself. More peer pressure to keep your mouth shut, than to put down the booze or quit playing around behind the old ladies back, or quite bitch slapping the TURD!!

I do find it interesting that you have spent all this time in here with your prospectives and now you feel disrespected by some of the commentary by others.

When you do battle for whatever reason, your going to get wounded.

Again I am speaking on my personal observations and experience.

[ July 13, 2011, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Ken ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 13, 2011, 11:46 AM:
 

quote:

---

But with a little reflection on your statement, IF there was a suggestion or belief that my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt because of my bitterness, then I would say use caution on that premise. IF that is the case.

---

quote:

---

And shucks, I wish you didn't pull the "you don't know me" crap. That sounds like something a dysfunctional Jerry Springer/Maury guest would scream back at a raucous audience.
You don't know me either, so WTF difference does it make?

---

It matters because the internet isn't real, knockem. The impression you have of me, or some of the cops we have spoken of on the internet may be completely off base from what we are in real life. Some of those guys on the SWAT, or 'twat' team just might be normal guys with families. They may be guys who like to hunt, shoot, watch their boys' baseball games, their daughters' dance recitals, etc. They just might NOT be the SWAT team from the evil empire.

Now I do appreciate your offer to hunt. The fact is, I am somewhat of a loner and do my hunting alone. Once in a long while I may bring a new hunter with me, and the only other time I hunt with someone else is when my mother in law buys me a gamebird hunt at a club in upstate NY every year for my birthday. The guy who takes me on the hunt is a fine gentleman, but is in his eighties and is not safe with guns anymore. It is to the point that I absolutely will not take my boys hunting with him. I don't have the heart to hurt the guy's feelings, or my mother in law's feelings for that matter. So if you ever hear that I got an ear full of bird shot, this is probably where it came from. Maybe this is the mother in law's plan. Lol..

But if you are sincere about meeting me, I am a member of the Pocono Pistol Club in Stroudsburg. I would be more than happy to meet you there, talk some guns, and do some shooting.
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 13, 2011, 12:51 PM:
 
No Dan, why?
 

---

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 13, 2011, 02:06 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 13, 2011, 02:16 PM:
 
NO PROBLEM Kelly the man in the picture has cataracts, it's a health issue from my pe rspective.

Nick, then I guess we will keep each other in check as we feel circumstances indicate. Should not be a worry on your part, it won't be on my part since I've been doing that for a very long time.

May the best man win if it comes down to the majority opinion!!!

[ July 13, 2011, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Ken ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 13, 2011, 03:32 PM:
 
If it comes down to majority opinion here I don't stand a chance.
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on July 13, 2011, 04:35 PM:
 
The guy above in kelly's picture gets his Cataract and Glaucoma medications from the guy below.



[ July 14, 2011, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: CCP ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 13, 2011, 05:15 PM:
 
It's all primo shit, too!
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on July 13, 2011, 05:34 PM:
 
I need to move my ass to California!!!

My head hurts!
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 13, 2011, 07:46 PM:
 
Come to AZ, we're fixin to sell it too.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 13, 2011, 08:20 PM:
 
Plenty of it is sold here...

Ken, I take back every bad thing I ever said about you (which was screw you and the horse you rode in on) You do get it, unlike you know who, who never will.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 13, 2011, 08:37 PM:
 
just doing my part. Hoping that big fatty will carry yall to 10 pages of summer time blues.

Yall stay after them
Kelly
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 13, 2011, 09:21 PM:
 
Is that Labrador?
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on July 13, 2011, 09:43 PM:
 
Nothing like a patriot standing in his garden saluting America.

Just wonder if he used manure or humanis nitro on those plants?

Thanks Tom!!!
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 14, 2011, 03:55 AM:
 

quote:

---

You do get it, unlike you know who, who never will.

---

quote:

---

Yes, I do have a definate dislike for cops.

---

You see, what I like about CrossJ and Rachel's boyfriend is, they just come right out and say it. Hey, if that's the way they feel I can respect that. If I had a chip on my shoulder about automotive electricians I would just come out and tell you. So why don't you just admit it Tom? Nobody here will think any less of you for admitting you don't like cops, not even me. Let's just put our cards on the table. We can put all this bullshit behind us and realize we are from different sides of the fence. There are a few others here who could probably admit it too, but you seem to have the worst chip on your shoulder.

Just come out and say it Tom.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 14, 2011, 05:58 AM:
 
Because nothing could be further from the truth 49, I deal with cops all the time without issue. Even have a few I consider my friends, just a few but none the less.

I don't like bad cop behavior anymore than I like bad automotive electrician behavior. I have no vendetta against anyone or any profession.

I don't like the fact that you are taking up for the bad behavior exibited by these cops in these videos. You seem to assume that just because they wear a badge, the little people should obey every command without question or else.

Here's a clue, a cops job is to uphold the law, not enforce his commands just because he doesn't like something someone is doing. The philly dude was following the law, the cops didn't.

The AZ marine was put in a bad situation, nevermind no evidence was found to convict him. Would you have a gun pointed at an intruder if you were awakened by someone coming into your house?

The guy refusing to sign the ticket was within the law, the officer wanted to show him he was in control, nothing more. The officer escalated that, not the driver.

Sorry, but I won't confess to something I ain't guilty of.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 14, 2011, 06:11 AM:
 
49, That pistol range wouldn't happen to have a 600yd rifle range out back, would it?

KJ & CCP, nicely done!!!
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 14, 2011, 11:13 AM:
 
"You could tell by taking one look at the guy he had had some brushes with the law"

Them and us? Same old shit.

If they don't like the way I look fuck'em, They will sure as hell know I don't like them just by the look on my face.

If we didn't need them to do our dirty work, we would run all of them off. They are without a doubt a pain in the ass. Talk about a shit attitude they have it.

I have sold a shitload of AR 15 to the local cops, so I do know more than a few. They talk to me like they do other cops, so I kinds know how they think about the people they are sworn to protect.

Another thing, this bullshit of cops pulling people out of a car, throwing them on the ground and standing on their neck or beating the shit out of them needs to stop. If I ever happen to be on a jury, (chuckle). Just remember this, if one person says it others are thinking it.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 14, 2011, 11:32 AM:
 

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2011, 11:57 AM:
 
That's Pedro, ▲ (my mule)

Holy shit, Dan. You come across as anti cop this morning?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 14, 2011, 01:38 PM:
 

quote:

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You could tell by taking one look at the guy he had had some brushes with the law"

Them and us? Same old shit.

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quote:

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49, That pistol range wouldn't happen to have a 600yd rifle range out back, would it?

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quote:

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That's Pedro, ▲ (my mule)

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Yeah Leonard is'nt smart enough to get the stuff across state lines.
Hopefully Dan gets set up soon so I don't have to haul Leonards goods over to AZ..


Jims a good customer but the stuff sure makes him cranky..

[ July 14, 2011, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on July 14, 2011, 09:56 PM:
 
Dammit Tim, it's not THAT stuff that makes me cranky, it's the meth, and mostly because my package from you didn't show up when it was supposed to, bitch.
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on July 15, 2011, 01:51 AM:
 
DDDDA.... DAMN!!!!
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on July 15, 2011, 02:49 AM:
 

quote:

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49, you will never understand because you have me painted as a turd in your mind

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