quote:

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1. If more than one officer shows up to serve a warrant it is automatically a swat team.

2. If forced entry is made after a knock and announce it automatically negates the knock and announce and becomes a "no knock" warrant.

3. The same posters that shout, "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that routinely adjudicate officers guilty of various crimes based sorely on poorly written and often inaccurate news articles.

4. Facts are irrelevant, all that really matters is how you feel about something.

5. When the media does stories on guns, gun owners, etc they are stupid, biased and have an agenda.
When they do a story about police actions they are an authoritative source and the gospel truth.
__________________
“Right is still right, even if nobody is doing it. And wrong is still wrong, even if everybody is doing it.”—Texas Ranger saying.

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quote:

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I think his remarks are accurate as to the attitudes having been expressed here at Huntmasters.

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quote:

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1. If more than one officer shows up to serve a warrant it is automatically a swat team.

---

quote:

---

2. If forced entry is made after a knock and announce it automatically negates the knock and announce and becomes a "no knock" warrant.

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quote:

---

3. The same posters that shout, "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that routinely adjudicate officers guilty of various crimes based sorely on poorly written and often inaccurate news articles.

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quote:

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4. Facts are irrelevant, all that really matters is how you feel about something.

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Sounds like a donkey hee hawing. He has the same data as we have, a video and the warrant to look at. He basis his opinion on the same facts we base ours on.

I believe the majority here base their opinion on the video and warrant.

I don’t think anyone questions would you shoot someone in their underwear pointing a gun at you? But rather why was someone standing in their underwear pointing a gun at you?

I think most can agree if your door is busted in while you are sleeping you will more than likely grab a gun and 30 seconds isn’t long enough to realize what’s going on and make a rational decision. I also think we can agree if we go through a door and a guy is standing in his underwear pointing a gun at us we would shoot.

The problem I have is the chain of events that led to this..

Next time any of you go coyote hunting and catch your hunting partner dozing off on stand slip a black ski mask on and scare the hell out of him. If it scares him and he points his gun at you fill him full of lead..

[ June 11, 2011, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: CCP ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 11, 2011, 11:35 AM:
 
Ummmmm I know this is the off-season but enough with the good cop, bad cop BS and internet lawyers.. Don't they have other boards for this???
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on June 11, 2011, 11:36 AM:
 
That makes a good point Richard.

I'm not about to try that as I'm pretty sure the outcome would not be good!

Nikonut
 

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Posted by DEL GUE (Member # 1526) on June 11, 2011, 11:39 AM:
 
49
I agree with the observations of the cop you quoted. But you are wasting your time. You are Daniel in the lion's den. You won't change any of their minds, and you will draw fire. It just ain't worth it.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 11, 2011, 12:02 PM:
 
I know it's a waste of time Del. And I know I won't change anyone's mind. Though the attitudes here are well described in this cop's post.

CCP, I will give you number one, as far as this incident goes. The officer in question was basing this remark on other internet experiences, not just this one. Mea culpa for quoting him slightly out of context.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 11, 2011, 12:06 PM:
 
49.....what you can't seem to understand is that nobody is arguing with you on the legality of what went down, from the "well written" warrant to the "knock and talk" and even killing the man dead in his underwear......WE GET IT!!! IT WAS PERFECTLY LEGAL!!!.....Legality is not the issue......over the years you guys have manipulated the laws through political means to protect YOURSELVES regardless of how barbaric you behave. Nothing illegal was done by LE according to the law....fair enough??

I've made this point before......Those Germans who are now being tried for thousands of counts of murder and other war crimes did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG....according to the laws of the third Reick and their superiors.

You may not understand how us inexperienced civilians could disagree with you and your fellow officers on this issue......here's the parting line......you have been brainwashed in the ways of rank and file.....we think as free men and don't see ANY need for a death squad to serve ANY warrant, that statement isnt meant to demean or belittle you or your usefulness it's meant to point out that LE needs to be heavily limited and not allowed to be involved in ANY way with changing laws.

My hope is that someday the people who are responsible for these death squads(swat teams) and the murders that they perpetrate are brought to full justice in full view of the public.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 11, 2011, 12:14 PM:
 

quote:

---

I've made this point before......Those Germans who are now being tried for thousands of counts of murder and other war crimes did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG....according to the laws of the third Reick and their superiors

---

quote:

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The fact is that (most) of you guys see only what you WANT to see.

---

This is exactly how we feel about you guys.

Boss gives me an order says paper work all good boss says kick down door and grab the guy inside boss says wrong house. OK go to next house bust down door guy has gun I shoot guy. All is good. Dayum I LOVE my job.

End of story everyone is a hero.


Update:
A still frame has been released from the helmet cam..

Now the evidence is there were more people in the house.One was in his underwear and the other well... I chick was making a run for it and the other had made a fist..





After seeing this new evidence I can see why they opened up..

[ June 11, 2011, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: CCP ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 11, 2011, 02:11 PM:
 
Wow 49, just wow.
 

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Posted by Ken (Member # 3065) on June 11, 2011, 03:06 PM:
 

quote:

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49
I agree with the observations of the cop you quoted. But you are wasting your time. You are Daniel in the lion's den. You won't change any of their minds, and you will draw fire. It just ain't worth it.

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quote:

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This is exactly how we feel about you guys.

Boss gives me an order says paper work all good boss says kick down door and grab the guy inside boss says wrong house. OK go to next house bust down door guy has gun I shoot guy. All is good. Dayum I LOVE my job.

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quote:

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Wow 49, just wow.

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quote:

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So, we are incapable of understanding the righteousness of lethal force?

You have to remember that you guys volunteered to serve the public. Personally, I don't view police work as hero work, it's necessary, and beyond that, you work for us.

I have not walked in your shoes, I have no desire but why is it that police officers are enlightened but taxpayers and citizens do not have a clue?

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quote:

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I think the shooting will be classified as justified. After All they killed the only eyewitness didn't they.

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quote:

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One will never win with those who have not wore the shoes of those who they speak badly of.

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I've worn those shoes for a short time, can't say I liked it much or the others..
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 11, 2011, 03:49 PM:
 

quote:

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As far as the war crimes....you can paint it however you like with your legal paintbrush but those guys are being convicted because they murdered millions of innocent people.......I refuse to let the numbers reach the millions before I start screaming....sorry bro

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quote:

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What ever happen to just letting the perp leave the house then go in and make youre search and then pick the guy up on the street or before he enters the house. This way he is in plane site for a easey pickup and no bystanders get hurt

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Tim I think because this was a search warrant and not an arrest warrant. They had no charges to pick the guy up on.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 11, 2011, 04:09 PM:
 
"What I am doing is pointing out that other LEO's have seen the same attitudes as I have seen here."

Ummm Hello, it's called us vs. them, we already knew what your "brothers" would see and feel. We see it everyday.

Your cop attitude is elitist and you forget who you work for just like the guys here who are trying for a new govt grant, they're working traffic pretty hard so they can get some more govt cheese... As alluded to in another thread, one day your training to follow orders will be tested.

God help us.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 11, 2011, 04:29 PM:
 
Well Tom I am glad you feel that way.

But, if I were truly an "us vs. them" kinda guy, there is no way in hell I could stay in this forum and put up with the shit I have had to deal with.

Think about it.
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on June 11, 2011, 04:31 PM:
 
Ok so most LEO's are in line with the officers involved in this??

In talking to other LEO what percentage of LEO agree with using the Swat to execute the search and executing it in the manner it was based on the written word of the warrant?

I know you guys cant give us an exact percentage but your best educated guess would be?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 11, 2011, 04:54 PM:
 
49, I really try to see your point of view. In all seriousness, the police mindset appears just as closed to our opinions.

I think it is perfectly understandable, that other police see the same as you do. That does not mean, and you should not find comfort in general agreement.

You place tremendous value on the assumed facts. We know that some statements were inaccurate. I have no reason to believe the scenario we have been told.

Was he crouched in the hallway with his weapon pointed at the stormtroopers? Why assume that? If this guy was a former Marine, seen combat, etc., why did he have his safety on, if it is true, that he was pointing his AR directly at these officers?

Besides, it wouldn't be the first time they kicked a weapon closer to the body, by accident.

I will be truthful. I do not accept police statements as factual, on faith alone.

I have seen a cop lie as to material facts. Let me repeat, I know a certain LA sheriff's deputy lied in one case, and the same guy shot and killed a teenager behind his house, down in the canyon, in Via Verde area of San Dimas, which was a part of the Bonelli wilderness area.

My brother-in-law, Stanton PD and formerly with Orange County Sheriff's, and well connected..... was this kid's step father.

But, on the other issue, he flat out lied about a situation that was directly across the canyon from his property. I happened to be there and I know the guy lied in his statement concerning separate events in the same canyon while he was on a leave of absence due to the other case.

So, it is possible for a police officer to lie, if it serves his purposes.

Is it possible that the dead guy wasn't pointing his weapon at the police until the lead started flying? Well, we don't know, do we? It could be completely innocent. The cop involved was mistaken and the other guy was unable to provide a statement while he bled out.

I see a situation where we can't agree, based on the facts that have been made available. Policemen see a justified shooting.

Some of us start to wonder at the events leading up to the killing. And, because of initial questions about procedures, we don't understand everything that happened in those 30 critical seconds, either.

I see law enforcement's position, I understand it. But, there are other people not connected with Law Enforcement that do not see things the same way. I don't understand why the police officers cannot concede the civilian point of view?

I see no concrete facts to support the law enforcement opinion of justified? The only thing we KNOW is they knocked the door down and hosed this guy. I have no idea if it was justified, JUST BECAUSE THEY TELL US THAT HE POINTED A WEAPON AT THEM.

As I said above, when push comes to shove, a cop will lie just as convincingly as Congressman Weiner.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 11, 2011, 05:40 PM:
 
Yes Leonard, some cops do lie, just like the rest of mankind.

So, are we to assume that since some cops elswehere in the country lied that these paticular SWAT cops lied also? What is wrong with waiting for all the facts to come out before we start accusing these guys of being a Nazi death squad?
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 11, 2011, 05:46 PM:
 

quote:

---

Ok so most LEO's are in line with the officers involved in this??

In talking to other LEO what percentage of LEO agree with using the Swat to execute the search and executing it in the manner it was based on the written word of the warrant?

I know you guys cant give us an exact percentage but your best educated guess would be?

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quote:

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But, if I were truly an "us vs. them" kinda guy, there is no way in hell I could stay in this forum and put up with the shit I have had to deal with.

Think about it.

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quote:

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But with the information we now have, yes, I think most LEO's will believe this operation to be proper.

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quote:

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And shrugging off murdering a citizen in his own home under the guise of swat protocol is fukkin' ABSURD

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quote:

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And since Leonard, JD & myself all brought it up at the same time, can you see how us 'turd' gun owning civilians can envision ourselves being in the very same predicament & ending up as SWAT preforated Swiss cheeze in the exact same fashion??

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Yes I can.

Now since you have proved my point, I think I will take Del's advice and cease and desist on this thread.

Thanks all!
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on June 11, 2011, 07:11 PM:
 
It seems there must be a lot of bad cops running around somewhere.

Here is a whole website dedicated to reports of Cops Gone Bad.

http://www.bikernews.net/index.cfm/pt/Cops-Gone-Bad/d/news/p/topic/topic/15
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 11, 2011, 07:41 PM:
 
Well 49, at least you're objective.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 11, 2011, 08:03 PM:
 
"Now since you have proved my point,"

Glad we were able to help, now you can run over to your buddies and assure them that ya'll are all right in the eyes of the law...

Whatever gets you through the night.
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on June 11, 2011, 08:20 PM:
 

quote:

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But with the information we now have, yes, I think most LEO's will believe this operation to be proper.

---

I could care less about reading a cop forum so I will ask it here.

1) Do these same cops believe that the operation procedure, and execution of said procedure, was proper?

2) What percentage of these same cops believe that suspension of civil liberties is allowable, if they can categorize something as a direct order from a superior, or reconcile it as "for the general good of the people."

Not one person on this forum has ever said the cops can't shoot someone pointing a machine gun at them. I'm not sure why you are still trying to argue that point. We are all saying that it shouldn't have gotten to the point of an armed confrontation with innocents around. We are also saying that if the search team had followed protocol and had there shit tight in knocking the door down, maybe they wouldn't have felt so exposed and could have ordered him to drop his weapon. They didn't and a person died, and not one frggin cop in this world knows if he was guilty of anything, he is just suspected of being guilty.

So the thread started because you believe we can't see the cops side of things. Well I sure can't because they fucked the whole operation up and down the entire line. The only thing they got right is they killed the guy without getting hurt themselves and they didn't hurt anyone else. That wasn't a matter of doing there job, that was a matter of getting lucky. Almost everyone on this forum is for killing with extreme prejudice during a war time situation when they are facing eemies of our country. This is our gov't doing this to our own citizens and is completely different.
 

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Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on June 11, 2011, 08:23 PM:
 
the obvious. there are good barbers and bad, good cops and bad, good people and bad, good vacuum cleaners sales guys and bad!!
All I know, is I feel like I have to carry to be safe, I did not use to. I am nervous about getting involved. I am making sure "I and Mine" are safe, I used to think about other people. Now I lean more towards, "'ll protect mine and you better not get in my way. I do not care what uniform you wear."
Carl
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 11, 2011, 09:07 PM:
 
Strong opinions on both sides.

I'm not normally a sensitive type guy, always considering other people's feelings. Oh, I can be but I'm more of an insensitive clod.

But, in the case of police methods, I find myself contemplating what it's like in the other guy's shoes.

I think it is essential that police use restraint, as much as possible. This deal did not have to happen, it really didn't. And that, in a nutshell describes my attitude.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on June 12, 2011, 05:19 AM:
 
I mentioned earlier that the police could have waited for the guy to get into his car then stopped him at the first stop sign.

Yes I know there is a difference between search and arrest. However couldn't they have stopped him and then informed the man that they have a search warrant for his residence, then taken him back and searched the home? Is that legal? might be a whole lot safer for everyone, including the police, and the "Turds".
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 12, 2011, 05:25 AM:
 
Nick, again I don't think you are giving 'us' much consideration here. You've stated yourself in the past that you feel most of us HM members to be above average in intellect, yet you summarily dismiss our opinions that differ from yours because, in this case, we've already "convicted the cops of murder"?

Can't you fathom the notion that we've empathized with both the Police AND the dead human being & comtemplated their actions based on the available information BEFORE we've reached our conclusions?

It's sort of insulting of you to think otherwise.

Have you considered the fact that we HAVE looked at this situation objectively & simply rejected what we don't feel logical?

Speaking personally, that is exactly what I did before stating my opinion here. It was not a 'knee-jerk' reaction to another bad cop thread.
There's just something about this story that stinks with 'fukk up' and the situation doesn't add up.

And I'm seriously doubting the notion that some new evidence is going to surface to somehow exhonorate that Swat team from firing 70+ shots into a human being while serving a search warrant in his home.

I understand that those who may have to kill another human in the line of duty will need to justify the taking of another life to themselves and others, legally and morally.
Those Swat guys need to think that they were 'in the right', not only for the legal ramifications, but for the moral burden they need to carry for the rest of their lives.
It doesn't take being a sworn officer to appreciate the gravity of needing to justify a killing to one's own self.

That is why I can empathize with those Swat guys and you "brothers in blue" NEEDING to justify killing a civilian. And the laws have been written so that your azz is covered in that regard.
But I'll maintain that operating under the letter of the law alone cannot justify the action of deadly force.

In this case, "he had a gun" is the justification. A lone half naked man, woke up in the middle of the night in his own home who was confronted by an entire team of Stormtroopers clad in body armor.

Here's the questions I'm sure we'd all like to know:
Did the 1st Swat guy to confront the man, see the gun & just open fire?

What, if any, dialogue was used BEFORE the shooting began?

Did this man get a round off before he was gunned down?

Did he even raise his gun?

How many of the Swat team fired their weapons aginst a single man?

Why were so many rounds fired against a single man, even if he had a gun?

Were the last Swat guys up the stairs laying down covering fire, or what?
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 12, 2011, 06:10 AM:
 
"But, if I were truly an "us vs. them" kinda guy, there is no way in hell I could stay in this forum and put up with the shit I have had to deal with.

Think about it."

I have thought about this and the more I read this statement, the more I see you as a troll.

You started this bad cop deal with your first series of posts. Testing the waters or what but it's pretty clear, you're looking for something other than hunting info, you enjoy stirring the shit.

[ June 12, 2011, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 06:13 AM:
 
I can't answer those questions Fred.

All I can do is objectively wait for the helmet cams to be released. This will most likely occur at a grand jury or other legal proceeding to determine whether or not this shooting was legally justified.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 06:26 AM:
 
Tom you might need to know a little history on how I was invited to Huntmasters.

Leonard and I "met" on another forum, during a contentious thread involving some law enforcement issue. I don't remember the issue, but I remember a person with the user name "Leonard" who made some anti law enforcement comments I didn't appreciate, so I challenged him. Leonard and I got into a pretty heated argument there. DAA was the moderator, and threatened to shut the thread down based on one of my posts. Out of respect for DAA as the mod, I edited my post out. Leonard and I contacted each other on PM's (I don't remember who contacted who first or why), we discussed our differences and made friends. Leonard then invited me to his forum.

So Tom, when you look at the history here, you won't be so surprised at why I post the way I do. Now you wanna call me a troll. Well you think what you like. I am not doing anything different than I have ever done, by standing up for what I believe in. If that makes me a troll than so be it.

And if Leonard feels I am a troll and wishes me to depart Huntmasters I will do so upon his request. He won't even have to ban me.

In all my years on internet forums this is the first time I have been called a troll LOL. I think I will add that one to my sig line.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 06:32 AM:
 
Just checking on my new sig line.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 12, 2011, 06:43 AM:
 
I realize that. The questions were more of a rhetorical nature as to illustrate what doesn't add up, according to my rationale.

Also, I think I touched upon why LEOs in general, are so steadfast in falling back on the letter of the law to plead this case as a justified killing of a civilian.

Regardless of what the 'helmet cams' show, militarized police serving a search warrant has got some fundamental flaws that don't jive with what this Country was founded upon.

Us civilian 'turds' can see this, plain as day. Yet, as evidenced by your shared opinions & citations, LEOs appear too preoccupied with defending each other's actions to recognize this as a problem?

That is the larger issue here...
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 06:48 AM:
 
Conversely Fred, I think the guys here are too preoccupied with defending the actions of non-LEO's.

I think it's time we find some common ground. Let's meet someplace in the middle.

Remember the other thread where I kept on saying I was trying to "bridge the gap?"
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 12, 2011, 06:49 AM:
 
Oh b.t.w. Leonard?

I'd like to submit a request for a new 'title'. Heck, I ain't never even been to Coney Island & haven't eaten baloney since the 5th grade...

I'll defer to your wit & embrace whatever ya come up with, at your convenience...
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 12, 2011, 06:51 AM:
 
Ah yes, Leonard invited you...

He has said many times that he appreciates a look inside the mind of a cop or something to that effect. I just don't know why you continually bring up bad cop threads and then shout about the injustices we've heaped upon you.

All the while stating you're one of us. That's kinda like me going over to GT and stating I'm one of them but then there's a law against that...
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 12, 2011, 06:53 AM:
 

quote:

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Conversely Fred, I think the guys here are too preoccupied with defending the actions of non-LEO's.

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quote:

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The last time I checked, police officers are United States citizens also, with the SAME rights afforded everyone else.

---

You are correct LEO's are American citizens with the same rights.

BUT once they use their power to infringe upon the rights and lives of American citizens intentionally putting citizens in harms way then they are the Gestapo.

Whoever was in charge and who all was following along are complete morons.

1-He has military training.
2-He is a suspected mid level drug ring captain.
3-He supposedly knows LEO’s are following him.

With the above a high probability of a firearm will be in the house.

These are all reasons NOT to conduct a search warrant in the way they did unless they wanted it to be a shootout. Seems like they weighed in on all the data and choose the highest risk scenario.

When LEO's intentionally put citizens at risk of being killed then they are my enemy and the enemy of every American citizen and our freedoms.They are no longer protectors.
Like said by JD the Nazi's were enforcing the law and the LEO while spraying blacks in Birmingham with fire hoses and putting their German Shepard's on them were also enforcing the law not long ago.

If someone believes this warrant justifies a swat team when the person is home in this manor then shame on them.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 12, 2011, 10:50 AM:
 
Fred, first. You may not see where Coney and baloney come from, but you claim to hail from New Yawk, and that's the genesis for your custom title. Also, the fact that I haven't set foot in NYC since 1961 and then it was only to take a buss from Brooklyn Naval yard to Fort Hamilton and La Guardia. (the airport, but my spellchecker can't figure out how to spell it) I will give you some further consideration but be patient because these things are 99% inspiration.

49, don't get so defensive. If this Board means anything, it is that you must defend what you say. If you have a problem defending your opinions without feeling like a victim, then you must be careful in how you construct your imput. Not because it is a hostile environment, but because the opinions of other members are poles apart.

Now, I have told you several times that you are in no danger of being asked to take a hike, so don't worry that I or others cannot abide your ideas. Some people just like to debate and I see no harm in that. Besides, we might all open our horizons, as a result, so work with us.

For the rest: realize that this is valuable insight into what makes "them" tick. It's like talking to a Liberal, and you know you aren't getting anywhere, you might as well be speaking Greek. But, it's all we have and if this man can stand the hostility and hang in there, we should (you know?) maybe sugarcoat the message a bit?

gh/lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 12:29 PM:
 
I don't know Leonard. I think I have for the most part been a gentleman in the way I conduct my business here. I have offered honest and open debate, as you have suggested.

My mention of the prospect of you banning me was (this time) in response to Tom's allegation of me trolling here. In other words, if you as the administrator felt I were a trolling here you would have banned me long ago.

I think your message to me can be equally applied to some of the members here. I may have bruised some egos in my responses to some. This victimization aspect works both ways.

The bottom line is, there is a strong element here at Huntmasters that resents police authority. I was trying to find some middle ground with these members. Since it obviously isn't going to work, I suggest we just agree to disagree and move on.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on June 12, 2011, 12:57 PM:
 
Nick, I think many of us have tried, to watch your back. You bring a "unique" perspective to the board, which I do believe is mostly appreciated.

I don't want to make this a east vs west thing. You just have to remember, most guys here roll their own ammo, while not cowboys by any means, have been to places where you might have to drive 30-40 miles just to see a light.

It's my belief, "we" would just like the opportunity to "defend" and take care of ourselves, without the law..

We know whats right and wrong, and don't need a fuckin' system or judge to tell us.. I think thats what folks are trying to tell ya ?

Thanks for listening to me ramble, just a red-neck from Idyho..
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 12, 2011, 01:09 PM:
 
49, you are very selective in what you respond to, you only pick subject matter that can be rebutted with your self pity and claims of "being a gentleman"......whatever.....you are a gentleman....so then WHY do you bring up the most controversial subject and beat it to death......none of this makes any sense to me.....so what........but if your gonna jump in the meat grinder on purpose you'd better have a set of iron cojones.

I don't get anything about this thread....are you lonely? Surely we could find something else to discuss that wouldn't offend your sensibilities. Sometimes I think you wont be happy with agreeing to disagree.....didn't we already do that?

I do however have a certain amount of appreciation for your new sig line
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 12, 2011, 01:27 PM:
 
I think it misses the mark. lol. How about Resident Huntmasters whipping boy?

Come on, we are all big boys, long ago in touch with our inner child. I don't know? Maybe gentlemanly conduct is preferred and maybe direct, call a spade a spade dialogue is more better?

However, 49, as has been observed, you do sail right in to troubled waters expecting a safe anchorage.

Several suggestions have been made about the makeup of our membership but I am not sure any of them are completely accurate?

How about fiercely independent?
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on June 12, 2011, 01:40 PM:
 
Well,

I'm going to descent here on both sides...

quote:

---

So, are we to assume that since some cops elsewhere in the country lied that these particular SWAT cops lied also? What is wrong with waiting for all the facts to come out before we start accusing these guys of being a Nazi death squad?

I don't know Leonard. I think I have for the most part been a gentleman in the way I conduct my business here. I have offered honest and open debate, as you have suggested.

---

quote:

---

49, you are very selective in what you respond to, you only pick subject matter that can be rebutted with your self pity and claims of "being a gentleman"......whatever.....you are a gentleman....so then WHY do you bring up the most controversial subject and beat it to death......none of this makes any sense to me.....so what........but if your gonna jump in the meat grinder on purpose you'd better have a set of iron cojones.

I don't get anything about this thread....are you lonely? Surely we could find something else to discuss that wouldn't offend your sensibilities. Sometimes I think you wont be happy with agreeing to disagree.....didn't we already do that

---

quote:

---

I think it misses the mark. lol. How about Resident Huntmasters whipping boy?

Come on, we are all big boys, long ago in touch with our inner child. I don't know? Maybe gentlemanly conduct is preferred and maybe direct, call a spade a spade dialogue is more better?

However, 49, as has been observed, you do sail right in to troubled waters expecting a safe anchorage.

Several suggestions have been made about the makeup of our membership but I am not sure any of them are completely accurate?

How about fiercely independent?

---

quote:

---

Ok, allow me to vent..

Nick is welcome at my camp anytime, and I've mentioned so. Here's the deal though, there will be a rifle, shotgun ect..Leaned up agains't a stump, fender of the pickup, whatever ?

Anybody that bust's up camp is getting shot. OK ya get it ?

Furthermore, anybody breaks down my fuckin' door is also getting shot. And yeah if it's the cops they will kill me, "However" I will refuse to lay my firearm down, It's my fuckin' house !!!

Take my comments however you would prefer..

---

quote:

---

Don't they say more cops are killed responding to domestic disturbances than conducting search warrants?

---

Yes sir they do, although I don't have any stats at hand.

Does that mean we should let our guard down when serving warrants on suspected drug dealers? How about the part of the warrant that said there was a pool of blood and I believe the smell of decaying flesh at one of the addresses listed on the warrant?

Leonard if you were a police supervisor would you not take these facts into consideration when planning this operation?

[ June 12, 2011, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on June 12, 2011, 02:39 PM:
 
49,I try and reserve comments, because I use my real name, ya never know who's gonna' use shit against you.

That being said,I don't care..FUCK OFF ASSHOLE..

You Sir, have pushed the envelope too far this time.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on June 12, 2011, 02:43 PM:
 
The way I see it is cops are alot like coyotes, most started out good but sooner or later they are going to turn bad...
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 02:45 PM:
 

quote:

---

49,I try and reserve comments, because I use my real name, ya never know who's gonna' use shit against you.

That being said,I don't care..FUCK OFF ASSHOLE..

You Sir, have pushed the envelope too far this time.

---

quote:

---

4949: LEONARD SAID TO GO TO REHAB, I SAID NO, NO, NO!

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRF43-xaYc

EDIT: I WILL SAY THIS. Generally speaking, east is east and west.... and buttons and bows. Really, westerners are a lot different. It was just on the news yesterday. Said New York and New Jersey have the least free citizens. Seems about right?

[ June 12, 2011, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on June 12, 2011, 04:22 PM:
 
The best we can hope for is enough shit gets stirred that in the future they may change enough policy to save a life.

This will continue to be the norm until enough honest officers step up and say this is wrong and we refuse to do it this way.

I believe if any of the cops involved in this raised hell to their department for putting them in this situation it would help get the ball going .Unfortunately looking at the video you can tell none of them involved has enough common sense to even realize what went wrong. (Five heads in a 36” doorway)

FYI I have set across a many poker table and drank a many beer among other things with local LEO through the years. Once the rest of LEO gets it in to their heads we hate” bad cops” and “bad policies” our relationships will be better. Every time LEO does something wrong they flock together and defend the ones doing wrong. Why don’t the good cops point out the bad cops?? I have heard a lot of cops say “yeah we got a few bad cops that give us all a bad name” Well if there is only a few then do something about it!!! Because we shore as hell aren’t allowed to nor have allowed an opinion.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 04:25 PM:
 
Lol Leonard she is not a bad singer.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 12, 2011, 04:27 PM:
 
CCP there has been a rash of murders in Long Island, NY. The suspects are two NYPD police officers. It seems the crimes are too well covered up, and thus law enforcement is suspected.

Yeah, there are bad cops out there.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 12, 2011, 04:36 PM:
 
No, she's not. I like Amy, I hope she shapes up.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 12, 2011, 06:51 PM:
 
I am a little puzzled by a couple comments made by 49, our resident east coast L.E. troll? Is it true that we have members that have unilaterally convicted the SWAT team of murder?

I know there have been strong opinions stated and a lot of it seems to agree that the police made very serious mistakes. I don't know that it rises to the level of premeditated murder? Does it qualify for jail time? Some would agree to that, but it would be for criminal violation of a citizen's civil rights.

gh/lb
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on June 12, 2011, 07:27 PM:
 
I would never convict those police without a fair trial. It's too bad the young Marine didn't get one.
As to little Amy, somebody needs to throw that girl a steak.

[ June 12, 2011, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 12, 2011, 07:54 PM:
 
Here is a conspiracy theory for ya. If the cops did everything right or according to the proverbial book, then why are they not forthcoming with the evidence surrounding the shooting.

And why in the hell is the information and the video not a matter of history, as in we have already seen it. The fact is, the cops are trying to buy some time so they can claim they lost the helmet cam video or some other lame excuse for not releasing it. If the homo dike bitch running homeland security gets involved ATF will probably kill all of the remaining eyewitnesses

It wouldn't be the first time the government in some form or another actually rewrote history.

We should give them (the cops)a fair trial and then hang them, or should we just shoot them like in an eye for an eye.

This shit will stop when the non-cops get the balls to put a stop to it. We need them to do the dirty work, but on the right people.

Save me obama, save me.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 12, 2011, 08:08 PM:
 
WHEW! When I saw that Dan, (the man) had responded to this thread, I panicked, thinking somebody had misspelled a word!

Fortunately, that was not the case.

gh....lb

I'm with ya on the Homeland security dyke. But, didn't you elect her Governor of AZ? Yeah, I looked it up, you are the Dan Carey living in Florence, aren't you? Donate considerable money to the Arizona Democrat Party? That's what I heard anyway?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 12, 2011, 08:13 PM:
 
Wrong, I'm a member of the flat earth society, and I keep my money buried in the back yard. I actually think all demoRATS should be deported back to mexico.

I apparently misspelled dyke, but then what do I know about homo spelling.

[ June 12, 2011, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on June 12, 2011, 09:18 PM:
 
The Pima County Sheriff's website continues to report that the Marine fired first.

http://pimasheriff.org/bulletins/officer-involved-shooting/

When in fact, he never took his weapon off safe. Why hasn't the Sheriff corrected the record?
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on June 12, 2011, 09:27 PM:
 
OMG, Leonard, watch who you accuse Dan of cavorting with! You DON'T want him coming up with creative nicknames and descriptions of you, do you? Did you not learn that becoming the object of Dan's scorn is not a fate to be envied? Oh my goodness, oh my goodness...
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on June 12, 2011, 09:30 PM:
 
Semp, it is critical to check the date of news items posted on the internet. That one is dated May 5th, the day the event took place.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on June 12, 2011, 09:34 PM:
 
Nick, I've cooled off some, watched the Dallas/Miami game, pretty cool that the Mav's knocked the heat off...IMO..

When I talk about bustin' up camp, what my definition is would be an intruder, being armed, of course..(Edit)I had a long story typed, but it really doesn't matter.

[ June 12, 2011, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 12, 2011, 10:15 PM:
 
Sorry guys, but Amy's a skank.

Try Google-ing 'Joey Rory Cheater Cheater' for a hot chick with class that can sing.

Edit 4 speling

[ June 12, 2011, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Kokopelli ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 12, 2011, 11:19 PM:
 

quote:

---

Sorry guys, but Amy's a skank.

---

Yea, but I bet she could suck the chrome off a Harley.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 13, 2011, 02:58 AM:
 
Dan, the helmet cam video of the shooting (if that's what you are referring to), wouldn't be made public at this time due to the fact that it will be entered into evidence at any future judicial proceedings. In other words, any potential juror would not be allowed to see the evidence prior to the trial having begun, if the cops are indeed charged with murder.

JD, how do you like the new addition to my sig line?

Dave, no worries.

Okay I gotta go to work. There are rights out there waiting to be violated!

[ June 13, 2011, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 13, 2011, 03:46 AM:
 
JD;
Being able to suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch is an important part of the 'skank' job description, but if you want to talk about a chick that could suck the carmel off of an apple without breaking the skin.........that takes a country girl. Gotta luv 'em.
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on June 13, 2011, 05:04 AM:
 

quote:

---

Semp, it is critical to check the date of news items posted on the internet. That one is dated May 5th, the day the event took place.

---

jimanaz

Oh, I saw that May 5th date. My point was that they were quick to post that wrong info but have not been so quick to correct a blatant lie.

The average guy visiting that website would think the Marine instigated the assault based on that report.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 13, 2011, 05:26 AM:
 
There won't be a trial, just an inquiry and no charges will be filed.

49, I like the sigline!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 13, 2011, 05:39 AM:
 
That's not a bad one you got......lol

edit: I never knew automotive electricians had a sense of humor?

[ June 13, 2011, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 13, 2011, 06:54 AM:
 
Nick, you keep referring to "certain members" convicting the Swat team of murder. I"m fairly certain you mean me? NO need to beat around the bush about it, call me out.

Let me tell you, I haven't convicted anyone of anything and I'm the FURTHEST thing from a cop-hater.

I've mentioned before that I have direct family & close friends that are LEO and have experienced firsthand the benefits & positives that the "boys in blue" are capable of. That is a fact.

However, in this case, I absolutely do not agree with how that search warrant went down. No, I certainly do not have all the evidence of what went down (none of us do). But based on the info shared, it looks like that dude was mowed down unnecessarily. If that indeed proves to be the case, is it too far a stretch for that to constitute murder?
That's not a conviction, that's prediction. And doubtful a conviction would be handed down, regardless...

Also, for the record, I also like Any Winehouse, but she is an utter mess.
I must say that my favorite female vocalist (country girls aside) is Hope Sandoval.
the fact that she's big with the stoner crowd doesn't bother me, I think her voice is phenomenal...
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 13, 2011, 07:42 AM:
 
Koko,..I've never confessed to being a country fan but I googled that link and I gotta say.....daaaaaamn!!! That chick is smokin'!!! I should go back and listen to the song this time.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 13, 2011, 08:58 AM:
 
Indeed!
I missed koko's suggestion initially, but just looked now. Heard that song on XM plenty of times, but have never seen Joey Martin before.
Whew-eee!!! She is as pretty as they come! And a sweet southern voice, too...

See? Now ya done got me missing one of my ex-girlfriends. She was from North Carolina, just that pretty & her accent made me melt. Racked alotta Sky miles back then. Live & learn...
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 13, 2011, 10:03 AM:
 
Yeah, I'd drink her bathwater. She's about as fine as frog hair.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 13, 2011, 10:44 AM:
 
I tell ya what, I'm a hardcore country music fan NOW.

I've seen women who were physically as beautiful as Joey but daaamn there's just something about that woman that is HOT!

Talk about a thread killer! She can kill any thread she wishes from now on.....in fact I hope someone posts that link in every thread.

Here ya go
Joey and Rory

[ June 13, 2011, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: JD ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 13, 2011, 11:18 AM:
 

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 13, 2011, 11:55 AM:
 
Good looking, I'd do her. But skanks are useful, too.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 13, 2011, 12:31 PM:
 

quote:

---

49, I like the sigline!

---

quote:

---

Nick, you keep referring to "certain members" convicting the Swat team of murder. I"m fairly certain you mean me? NO need to beat around the bush about it, call me out.

---

Fred, Yes and no. Yes, you are ONE of the members I mean. After all, you are the member who came right out and said it.

No, you are not the only one I am indicating. Whether it's said or implied that the decedent was murdered, or gunned down unnecessarily, or even killed by the general actions of the police, that is the general attitude I was referring to. This is why I began this thread in the first place, because of the prevailing attitude without the benefit of ALL the facts. I didn't mean it personally to you.

Now I hate to ruin a perfectly good hijack.

Carry on!
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on June 13, 2011, 12:45 PM:
 
She has long legs and is sexy as can be!!! WOW!

--------------------------

Hey Fred, I think Nick was actually pointing out a lot of us that said, "Murdered".
Even if he was pointing a gun at those officers(while standing in a dark hallway protecting his family)they had no justification to bust down his door and immediately shoot him 71 times in his own home like they did... SCARES the HELL out of me! We can ALL... every one of us... expect the same. LEO actions such as these can not be tolerated, this isn't television.

Nikonut
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 13, 2011, 01:18 PM:
 
You know, "murder" is a question of degree. As far as I'm concerned, if I were prosecuting it would be for negligent manslaughter.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 13, 2011, 01:22 PM:
 
One thing I'd like to examine, 49 said cops have the same rights as we do but what about the OKC pharmicist who shot the robber, chased his partner out the door and grabbed another gun to finish off the first kid. He got life in prison.

How is this different than the last guy in line jumping over everyone else so he could get a shot in too? I mean 71 shots and they let him bleed out for an hour?

If you really want to take it all the way...

[ June 13, 2011, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on June 13, 2011, 01:34 PM:
 
Hey Nick, I'm headed to my home state of Oregon, in a few minutes.To see my mom. You would like it, I'm sure..The long arm of the law just spooks me thats all.

See ya dudes in a few, days take care, now..
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 13, 2011, 07:10 PM:
 
Dave, have a good trip. We'll talk to you when you get back. I remember a girl in college from Oregon. Except she pronounced it "Oregun."

Leonard, I was pondering the charges this afternoon myself. You might be right, manslaughter or a lesser degree of murder. What is even more likely would be federal civil rights charges. This gets me to Tom's question. I had said earlier that cops have the same rights as other American citizens. I was actually a little off base. There was a guy from my agency years ago, before I came on the job who killed a drunk driver who was going berzerk in the back of his patrol car. We didn't have cages in our cars back then, and the officer went into the back seat to restrain the guy. Somehow, the suspect ended up expiring. It is unknown if he hit his head on the door frame, the radar unit which was in the back seat, or was struck by the officer's baton, flashlight, or whatever. The Union County grand jury returned an indictment of second degree manslaughter against the officer. There was additional evidence that came out which caused a second grand jury proceeding, and the grand jury no billed it. The feds caught wind of this and brought him up on federal civil rights violations. He was tried in federal court and did hard time in federal prison.

My point with all this is that police officers sometimes actually have less rights than the average citizen. Non-LEO citizens to my knowledge are never brought up on civil rights violations charges after having been no billed by a grand jury or acquitted in superior court. Del and Ken know what I mean by all this.

Your OKC pharmacist was convicted because he "finished off" the robber. We can't do that here in the United States. Your allegation that the SWAT cop finished off the decedent is just an allegation for now. The allegation is made without the benefit of court testimony, examination of evidence, cross examination of witnesses, testimony by experts, examination of reports, examination of the remainder of the helmet cams, autopsy reports, time of death, etc. This is what I have been saying..we shouldn't convict these guys without the benefit of a trial. Tom, maybe you are correct in your assertions. Perhaps these men will be found guilty of reckless manslaughter or civil rights charges. Maybe they have it coming to them and maybe they don't. It's just not for us to say without all the facts and evidence presented.

[ June 13, 2011, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 13, 2011, 07:40 PM:
 
Gawdammit 49!!!

Would you please just watch the video and quit fuckin up a perfectly good hijack.

Click the link 49
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 13, 2011, 08:09 PM:
 
49, I wasn't asserting anything really, just have been wondering about that since he was convicted. I was always told never injure a man, kill him or he can sue you blind.

But you gotta admit 71 shots is an awful lot of bullets going one way to a man who never fired a single shot. Anything about that draw blip on your radar?
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 13, 2011, 08:13 PM:
 
JD she ain't bad but she's no Shania Twain.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 13, 2011, 08:16 PM:
 
Seems likely that was on his mind when he finished him off. But still, how do you get from self defense to murder? I think that should be no more than second degree manslaughter?

gh....lb

edit:

quote:

---

she's no Shania Twain.

---

I was thinking the same thing when I first looked at the video. She's an American though.

[ June 13, 2011, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 13, 2011, 08:46 PM:
 
I like Sha-ny-er Twain....aint she a commie or a canuck or some such....hell, with a rack like that who cares.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 14, 2011, 04:54 AM:
 
Shania is lovely, Tom, but Joey in plain ol' blue jeans & a wife beater has got my vote. And you can tell from that vid, she's cute.
There's plenty of hot chicks out there, but Joey's got that little sweetness about her. But maybe she's just my kind of pretty?
Also, I can't find a single 'racy' photo of Joey Martin. Makes me like here even more...

Any Sarah Evans fans out there?

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 14, 2011, 08:43 AM:
 
I recognized a long time ago that a brunette is BY FAR THE MOST ATTRACTIVE FEMALE. Blondes are just okay. Black and red hair, not so much...except asian, of course.

As I recall, on dancing with the stars, Sara Evans has seen better days. That whole experience didn't reflect well, on her.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 14, 2011, 02:00 PM:
 

quote:

---

But you gotta admit 71 shots is an awful lot of bullets going one way to a man who never fired a single shot. Anything about that draw blip on your radar?

---

Yes Tom, but you and I can argue this until we're blue in the face and it won't change either of us one bit. When we go rescue Del from Tijuana we can talk about it in the truck on the way down. I'll bring the .223 ammo if you bring the AR's.

I like the sig line by the way.

Okay, I don't want to mess the hijack anymore. JD is getting angry.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 14, 2011, 02:19 PM:
 
49 it matters not if we argue or share differing opinions, what we say won't be taken under advisement so we can still have some fun can't we?

Looking at both sides is a good thing. Besides you have the right to be wrong if you wish.

Bring lots of ammo, I got plenty of AR's.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on June 14, 2011, 02:56 PM:
 
you old farts have forgotten the sexiest women ever in music. hell, she still looks great and she's like,like... Leonards age

 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on June 14, 2011, 03:35 PM:
 
4949, Don't you think the first questions asked by a Prosecuter to someone such as yourself would be:

1. Do you think the procedure was the best procedure based on your understanding of the facts?

2. If yes, than do you think the procedure was executed properly?

3. Is it your opinion that the execution of the procedure was flawed, and that proper execution of the procedure may have prevented the death of the decedent?

You have stated that the execution was flawed. Why do you blame us lowly inexperienced citizens of convicting these guys of not doing their job, when you have stated the same thing?

It's not much of a jump to say that the suspect had a good chance of being alive today if the search warrant was executed correctly.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 14, 2011, 03:43 PM:
 
Tlb, I do think the execution was flawed to an extent. What I don't know is if the brass who approved the decision to use a SWAT team made a poor decision or not. The reason I don't know this is because I was not present when the decision was made, thus I am not privy to all the facts behind the reasoning that went into this decision.

Edit: I will say this much...perhaps the use of a SWAT team contributed to the man's death.

OR...perhaps the use of a SWAT team saved the lives of a couple of detectives who would have knocked on that door.

We will never know.

[ June 14, 2011, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on June 14, 2011, 04:33 PM:
 
What happened to you stating that they were milling aroung the opening and unaware? I can't remember the exact phrasing, but it had the same meaning.

Your answers are getting more beauracratic as we go. I liked the straight-forward 49.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 14, 2011, 05:50 PM:
 
That's what I meant tlb. Their approach and tactics were horrible. I know you don't like cop forums, but I even said this on the coptalk forum of Glocktalk. If the deceased had tried it, he could have mowed down 2 or 5 cops as they were standing in front of that door bunched up.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 14, 2011, 06:04 PM:
 
Just got this. The Pima Couty DA's office has cleared the SWAT team in its use of deadly force. One of the deciding factors was damage sustained to the rifle:

"A close examination of the rifle revealed it appeared to have been damaged by being fired upon from such an angle that it must have been pointed toward officers."

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14901255/pima-county-attorney-sides-with-swat?redirected=tr ue

[ June 14, 2011, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on June 14, 2011, 06:05 PM:
 
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_3f13aacb-4bba-5d0c-a4bc-623bf465e9a5.html

quote:

---

close examination of the AR-15 rifle Guerena was holding at the time he was shot revealed that the bullet damage was done at an angle that indicated Guerena was pointing it at the officers, Berkman wrote in the letter.

---

quote:

---

That's what I meant tlb. Their approach and tactics were horrible. I know you don't like cop forums, but I even said this on the coptalk forum of Glocktalk. If the deceased had tried it, he could have mowed down 2 or 5 cops as they were standing in front of that door bunched up.

---

quote:

---

So that's what you've been waiting for 49?

---

Like I have been saying for I don't know how many posts, I am "waiting" for the helmet cams.

This is just another piece of information for us to ponder.

Carry on.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 15, 2011, 05:23 AM:
 
If the one piece of evidence that vindicates the police in a shooting is that the cop's bullets hit your gun, after 71 shots, in a certain way, something ain't right.

The fact that 71 shots were fired is ludicrous. The fact that he never fired a shot is ludicrous. The fact that all documents are sealed on the warrants is ludicrous. The whole thing is ludicrous, just, ludicrous. And ludicrous.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 15, 2011, 06:01 AM:
 
I have more questions.

If this was a search warrant, why didn't the 'manslaughter-ers' wait until the guy wasn't home to serve it?
Wouldn't that have eliminated any potential of a gunfight with the, now dead, United States Marine? (I don't agree with the term "decedent", too de-humanizing).

Also, WHAT IF this US Marine was an active duty Police Officer? Would the 'manslaughter-er' (SWAT) team still shoot first & ask questions later, knowing it was a fellow cop in that house?

More importantly, would there even BE a SWAT team serving the warrant against a fellow cop?
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on June 15, 2011, 06:12 AM:
 
Oh yeah, growing up & watching them on TV, Louise was my favorite Mandrell sister...
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on June 15, 2011, 07:26 AM:
 
Nick, I regret calling you an asshole, my apology. As mentioned in my previous post the long arm of the law spooks me.

Also as mentioned, I don't use a screen name, thus I'm hesitant to mention certain things, because, I admit that I'm kinda scared.

I have a story I would love to share, but I wont. Lets just say it has a lot to do with the power of the badge. And those of us that dont have one..

For the record, I'm not a felon, wife beater or whatever. Hell I think my last speeding ticket was 25 years ago ?

I just see where some folks, let the badge go to their head, thus some of the anti-leo attitude a guy see's here. Pumping a guy with 70 rounds or whatever was bull-shit, there is no excuse..Period...

Again its getting spooky....
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 15, 2011, 07:29 AM:
 
"I just don't understand it, Lapidas." Bashes palm on water cooler, causing bubbles to rise. "They keep thinkin' all us cops is crooked. What can I do to change their minds? Nothins workin and I ain't slept a wink in days!"

"Listen, Carbonne, YOU, ain't gonna change 'em. Do what I do, when they don't follow your DIRECT orders to change their minds. Shoot 'em! And then, take out your "plant" piece and nuzzle it in their hand. Hearts and minds Carbonne, hearts and minds. One at a time, right. I killed 12 guys last week that didn't agree with me. Made it look like a gang banger squabble gone bad. Real quick, real easy."
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2011, 09:14 AM:
 
That seems to rise to the level of COP BASHING, smithers. A dozen? Really?

gh....lb

edit: whichever Mandrell is the trap shooter, would be my favorite.

[ June 15, 2011, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 15, 2011, 09:24 AM:
 
Leonard, I'm a citizen. It's the cops job to bash me with sticks, boots, bullets and possibly their car if they are feeling lazy. I don't bash them, I'd be arrested.

Yea, I was gonna go for a bakers dozen but it didn't sound as believable...
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 15, 2011, 10:04 AM:
 
I would think we will never see the helmet cam footage. The investigation is over, though the coverup will continue.

All that it takes for evil to triumph, is a good man to do nothing...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 15, 2011, 10:13 AM:
 
ooh, that sounds like a "signal" for someone else to weigh in with long overdue concessions?

What if they claim; "uh, we forgot to turn on our helmut cams" then, of course, everything that happened was justified.

I think we need to get away from: WE SHOT HIM BECAUSE HE WAS ABOUT TO SHOOT US.

Somebody needs to start asking a few hard questions, like who planned this clusterfuck, and why?

gh....lb
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on June 15, 2011, 10:26 AM:
 
I watched "Failure to Launch" last night with the wife. In it they have a paintball game going. I am pretty sure that is how this entry team trains...blindly shoot as many rounds downrange in hopes you hit something.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 15, 2011, 12:34 PM:
 
This case may not be totally over. We still have the feds and the AZ Attorney General.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on June 15, 2011, 01:17 PM:
 
Dan, I hope you're right. I was on the fence on this one, none of the evidence added up but I know there are "turds" out there.

Now with the latest info, we have (and no discussion of the helmet cam) it paints a pretty clear picture that someone besides the dead marine (I don't like decedent either) screwed up.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on June 15, 2011, 04:04 PM:
 
Alright 49, this narrow minded Nazi bullshit is starting to piss me off.......lets start a pool....What do you think the helmet cams will show?

I'm gonna say that we will see a Marine in his underwear holding an AR, pointed towards whoever is kicking the door down, half asleep, trying to focus and wrap his mind around what is happening as bullets riddle his body in front of his wife and child.

Anyone else want to take a guess?
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on June 15, 2011, 05:35 PM:
 
I say he is blinded by a billion lumen Surefire Tactical light mounted to one of the weapons that kills him and never even knows who is busting his door in.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on June 15, 2011, 05:43 PM:
 
Pretty much what you said with the addition of,

one cop falling down on his ass and one cop having an accidental discharge after the killing was accomplished.

Incompetence is rampant within the PD's.
 

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Posted by Lungbuster (Member # 630) on June 17, 2011, 09:07 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Lungbuster (Member # 630) on June 17, 2011, 09:17 PM:
 







 

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