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Author
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Topic: I wonder sometimes
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted May 28, 2011 09:52 AM
I carry concealed 24/7 I have wondered, especially after a couple threads here. Say you are at a store a someone pulls a gun to rob or hurt someone, if you get involved, pointing your gun at them and demanding surrender? up and shoot them, maybe the cops arrive while you are pointing your gun at the bad guy: What do you do? Are you likely to get shot by the cops? How do you give yourself the most legal protection possible?
Say you see a cop that needs help in a bad situation, getting beaten up, maybe a gun held on him?? What do you do? what would you do? How would you help without the cop thinking you are a threat to him?
I just wonder
Carl
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted May 28, 2011 10:16 AM
Look into youre state laws for carrying a handgun and when you can use it.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 28, 2011 10:21 AM
Crikey, I HAVE WONDERED ABOUT THAT FOR MANY YEARS!
It almost makes me think that helping a policeman in trouble, is out. Helping any victim is probably out. All I can do is protect myself.
Why? Because a trigger happy cop is most likely to shoot at any god damned weapon he sees! It is all over the previous four pages, they are terrified of a gun and the general population gives him a free pass if they even "think" somebody else has a gun.
I see a gun; shoot the turd, is universal policy.
gh/lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 28, 2011 10:45 AM
Carl, I was watching the inevitable hysterical hyperbole from the CNN anchor after the Giffords shooting in Tucson in Jan.
He was interviewing a man from Phoenix that amazed me with his wisdom, intelligence, knowledge of constitutional rights and gun laws.
His name is Alan Korwin and he absolutely baffled the anchor by turning the guys biased statements and questions back on him... verbal Aikido with a sense of humor.
I called Alan and booked him to speak to PVCI and to APC on consecutive months.
I've received more positive feedback from club members about his presentation than any other.
Click here http://www.gunlaws.com/ to read about your gun rights and responsibilities in all 50 states.
. Scroll down to the blue banner and start with gunlaws. There are 30,000 gunlaws on the books so Alan has published a ton of pamplets and books that address the ones that have the greatest effect on us.
Browse through his website and marvel.
One of Alan's most informative books is titled
AFTER THE SHOT
The gun's hot.. the perp's not. Now what!
A real eye opener.
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted May 28, 2011 10:49 AM
As much as this pains me.....t-bag has a good point....Doooohhhh!!!! I need to go lay down for a while, I feel dizzy.
Some states require that you attempt to distance yourself from or escape the aggressor before you shoot them 70 times, sure don't want to shoot someone just because they are attacking someone else.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted May 28, 2011 11:04 AM
I think this is the video you are talking about Rich.
video
I do want to add to something he said about buying a gun in the US. Some states will not allow someone from other states to purchase any firearm. I found out that AZ will not allow a MO resident to legally buy a 22 Rimfire rifle for example. I can buy firearms here at home but not AZ. BS law IMO...
Is that Turd's name Elliot Spitzer? Isn't he a disgraced former politician and as he noted as being in law enforcement. Maybe if we're lucky they will trot out Marion Berry to give us his opinions.
[ May 28, 2011, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 28, 2011 11:06 AM
In Oklahoma we cannot pull our gun unless we or "our loved ones" lives are in danger. I can't shoot the robber until he points his attention to me and taking a prisoner is not in your best interest.
Helping a cop? Depends on the situation. Again we aren't supposed to draw our weapon until we or "our loved ones" are in danger.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted May 28, 2011 11:18 AM
We have many restrictions too. If we can't flee danger there are times we are allowed to shoot, such as carjacking and preventing a kidnapping. So If your kid is strapped into the carseat and someone is trying to steal your vehicle you can shoot the turd.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted May 28, 2011 11:45 AM
I've considered those questions as well many times since my little incident with the intruder. I could have blown the fella's guts all over the walls and skated. I didn't because I determined he wasn't a threat as soon as Roscoe (the .44) and I confronted him. He never raised his popgun and I had the hammer back and aimed center mass. Besides, under the circumstances, I kinda sympathized with him. The female involved was a slut. I'm glad I made the decision I did. He was, however, a "fucking turd" and was beaten to death some time later for other transgressions.
In the event of future gun play opportunities I have decided to do what I feel is right, MORALLY, and let the legal chips fall where they may. Even if Bubba has his arm around my waist 24/7, my conscience will be clear.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted May 28, 2011 11:50 AM
LOL JD.. When Ken gave me the link to gun laws in Penn. they had some info for gun owners of that state on when and when not they can use a handgun for defense. I'm sure every state has its own laws on the subject.. Also some states don't allow conceal and carry from other states..
I use to have a conceal and carry permitt for 3 years after I left the service, was'nt worth it so I dropped it after the third year...If I would have had to use my handgun I would go by what I was taught in the service and take my chances.. ( prevention of rape or possable loss of life..) Now days I'm usually packing a knife or two depending on where I'll be and they canbe just as effective as a handgun as long as you have the element of surprise on youre side..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted May 28, 2011 11:55 AM
I have often thought about the fact that I may be off duty one day and may have to help another cop who doesn't know me.
I could easily end up getting shot by another cop under these circumstances. But as Jim said, you have to let your conscience determine your actions. Me..I would rather take the chance.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted May 28, 2011 12:34 PM
I don't have a concealed carry but I feel it's my obligation to help in any situation that I might get into by being there. It's someones loved one and it might be mine next time. I'm not a hero or superman but I damn sure wouldn't walk or run away if there was anything I could do.
I'd probably be in the same situation as if I had a gun, though! It's all about your personal morals and conscience... mine is clear.
Nikonut
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted May 28, 2011 01:40 PM
Hey Dan if yopu were unable to buy a 22 rifle in az. it would have been because Mo. disallows out of state firearms purchases for their residents.
Here is Az.s law.
• An Arizona resident may then take possession of the firearm. Non-residents need to comply with several additional criteria:
• the firearm must be legally possessible in the buyer's state of residence
• the transaction must be legal in the purchaser's state of residence
• Immediate possession of long guns is allowed if this is allowed in the state of residence
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted May 28, 2011 02:38 PM
Rich, I am not sure of the "how and why's" but I do know that in the Walmart in Benson, and there is/was a map of the USA with some red colored states. Missouri was a colored state and they said they can not sell to a resident of those states.
I can assure you that I can legally purchase firearms in my home state. I purchase centerfire pistols and rifles regularly.
I was going to get a 22 WMR for a few areas that have shotgun/rimfire restrictions. I couldn't do it, so I grumbled, badmouthed the gov't some and walked away in disgust.
It is quite possible that my state is the root of this problem. MO does do a lot of stupid backward assed things going on. I'm sure you have seen or heard of some from your time here.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted May 28, 2011 02:56 PM
Each state has its own laws for what ever reasons.
I can go to S.D. and by a rifle but not a handgun even if I have the paper work. I can pay for it but then it has to be sent to a gun dealer in Mn. or in my case there was a dealer from MN at the show so it had to be transfered to him first then me..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted May 28, 2011 03:06 PM
I can only speak for California legally speaking. I don't wonder what I'll do in that situation. I wonder if it will EVER happen again,
We don't have to retreat on ANY situation, cop or citizen. Citizens may be armed while attempting to make a lawful arrest.
A few off duty cops have been shot and killed by cops over the years for getting involved off duty. Specifically LAPD's finest.
As 49 and Jim said ONLY you can decide when to drop the hammer when the time comes.
If I am convinced your a crook, are pointing your gun at some store clerk, running down the street shooting at people, the moment I get a clear sight picture on you, BANG!!!
I am not going to announce my presence by saying HALT,freeze drop the gun. NOT required to try and get the crook to surrender before killing him or her.
If you wish to announce your presence to the crook and get his attention, even though you are leveled off at him, he can still get a round off before you do, I KNOW, I know your fast on the trigger. TRUST ME either kill him if your justified the MOMENT you have the opportunity or KEEP your pistol holstered.
For those certain gun law exsisting in certain states, BULLSHIT is all I can say. I will be tried by 12 before carried by 6 in order to be lawful in some states.
First off I am not a turd, I don't do stupid shit to attract attention to myself.
YOU start PONDERING in YOUR mind on what to do, when the shit is hitting the fan and playing with your pecker, instead of pulling the trigger, I'll bet you'll be dead in no time.
Start the WHAT IF's, YOUR DEAD!!!
First off if I kill someone, I might just get the hell out of there, go down the street and call the cops.
When I see them coming I will stand in the clear and put my hands up. I won't be standing there with a gun in my hand when and if they arrive.
If your more worried about getting into trouble than staying alive when facing death or protecting a person, LEAVE your gun at home.
[ May 28, 2011, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Ken ]
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
Posts: 281 | From: High Desert | Registered: Aug 2008
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted May 28, 2011 05:07 PM
I know what he laws are, in my opinion, but sometimes courts change them!! I also know what I intend to do, (that is why I carry) I do however try to think through potential what ifs. Thinking thru situations is the first step in training. I have heard alot of big talk from many people for many years, seen alot less action!
Carl
Thanks for the link Rich, now about that howler??? LOL
[ May 28, 2011, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Bofire ]
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
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kodiak61
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3255
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posted May 30, 2011 08:52 PM
I often say this is the reason I carry.
Being big, ugly and mean looking I'm not exactly the target of opportunity that many criminal element look for. I don't fancy myself a hero even a John Wayne type, however I would hate myself if I was in a situation where I could possibly help yet wasn't able too because I didn't have a firearm that day.
The question of legality as it applies to the scenario's in my head I guess would have to be an after thought. If I was present for a situation that warranted the use of my firearm to protect another life I would have to make that split second decision to act and then worry about possible retarded legal consequences after the fact.
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While the wicked stand confounded, call me with thy saints surrounded.
Posts: 55 | From: Goldendale, WA | Registered: Oct 2008
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kodiak61
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3255
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posted May 30, 2011 09:06 PM
Pulled from another website:
Outrage as pharmacist who shot 16-year-old trying to rob his shop gets life sentence
A controversial decision to send a pharmacist to jail for life for shooting dead a young man who tried to rob his store has caused a storm of protest.
Jerome Ersland was given a life sentence for the first-degree murder of 16-year-old Antwun Parker at an Oklahoma court last week.
The 59-year-old pharmacist shot the youngster six times during an attempted armed robbery in 2009, leading jurors to decide he had acted beyond the limits of self defence.
Pharmacist Jerome Ersland has been given a life sentence for killing an armed robber who tried to hold up his store
Thousands in the area have, however, reacted furiously to the decision, insisting Mr Ersland had simply acted to protect himself, his store and his customers.
The debate has now moved online, with many joining groups in his support and ones that argue his punishment is deserved on Facebook.
Antwun Parker, who was shot and killed by pharmacist Ersland during the armed robbery
The argument is similarly divided on social networking site Twitter, with thousands sending out messages of support for either Ersland or the justice system.
One group on Facebook, titled 'Jerome Ersland should not have been found guilty' has more than 2,500 members.
Others, such as the 'Jerome Ersland got what he deserved' group have also attracted much attention.
There have also been petition sites started which hope to send more than 5,000 signatories to the government following the controversial court case.
Support has also come from notable public figures, including Oklahoma State Senator Ralph Shortey.
'I'm gonna spend the rest of my career, however long it may be, trying to right this wrong,' he told ABC News.
CCTV: Surveillance footage of the robbery, during which Antwun Parker was shot and killed by Ersland
One of the pictures from an Ersland support group on Facebook
Dramatic CCTV footage from May 19 2009 shows Antwun Parker and an accomplice running into the Reliable Discount Pharmacy in south Oklahoma City and pointing a gun directly at Mr Ersland.
The pharmacist, who was once an Air Force lieutenant colonel, can then be seen reaching for a pistol of his own before firing at the two young men, with one of the shots hitting Parker to the ground.
After chasing the accomplice from the store, Ersland then gets a second gun before shooting Parker another five times, almost a minute after he fired the first gunshot.
In court, Mr Ersland's attorneys insisted their client had acted in self-defence.
Defence lawyer Irven Box asked jurors to close their eyes and imagine what they would do if they were confronted with the same situation.
'He eliminated the armed robber,' Box said.
Box added to ABC News that the pharmacist had shot repeatedly because he saw Parker was still moving after the first hit so deemed him still to be a threat.
Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Chance, however, argued that: 'This defendant was absolutely not defending himself or anyone else.'
The jury responded after three and a half hours of deliberation by recommending a life sentence.
Ersland must now be sentenced by Oklahoma County District Judge Ray Elliott on July 11.
If he upholds the jury's decision, Ersland will not be eligible for parole for at least 38 years.
Ersland's lawyers said they would appeal the murder conviction.
[url= http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBBlEhmWNQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBBlEhmWNQ[/url]
TO SHOOT OR NOT TO SHOOT?
[SIZE="3"]THE LAWSelf-defence can be argued in court but it must be proved at trial that these actions are justified.
As a general rule, a person can use reasonable force if they are genuinely threatened with an impending injury.
A person using force in self-defence, though, should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack - but no more.
Deadly force can be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but not one who is using non-deadly force.
In some cases, the law recommends that the person under threat should try to flee before fighting back if at all possible.
Courts have held, however, that a person is not required to flee from his own home, the fenced ground surrounding the home, his place of business, or his car.
[ May 30, 2011, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: kodiak61 ]
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While the wicked stand confounded, call me with thy saints surrounded.
Posts: 55 | From: Goldendale, WA | Registered: Oct 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 30, 2011 09:25 PM
Now, apply the above circumstances to the dead marine and the fuselage unleashed upon him. The druggist is in prison for the rest of his life for 5 insurance shots. The marine took 71 rounds. I wonder if a jury would consider, (the same jury, perhaps) excessive force?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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