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Author
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Topic: New Puppy and Gun Training?
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RonFin
Knows what it's all about
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posted April 12, 2011 11:50 AM
Just rescued a four month old pup. He's a pit, weimaraner mix.
How do I introduce him to gun shot sounds without scareing him forever?
Last time I had a pup, he did great. The noise didn't bother him at all. Then one day (don't know why) he turned into a real puss when around any shooting.
Thanks
Posts: 39 | From: San Bernardino County, CA | Registered: Sep 2009
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TRnCO
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posted April 12, 2011 06:00 PM
Take him with you and a friend to an area that shooting is allowed. Take some doggy treats that he likes real well, keep them small. Have your friend get at a good distance away from you and have him fire a .22 rimfire in a safe direction. If the pup has a negative reaction, get further away from the gun fire. If he has a positive reaction, reward him with a small treat. Slowly get closer to the gun fire, as long as his reaction is positive. Once he's comfortable around the 22lr, upgrade to a larger boom, and as long as his reactions are positive, give him a reward. Don't have to reward him after every gun shot, but make it a positive for him, that a gun shot equals good things to him, so that he doesn't fear the gun shots.
Eventually, he shouldn't have a problem with gun fire and hopefully he will always react in a positive way.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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RonFin
Knows what it's all about
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posted April 14, 2011 07:09 AM
TR, that's perfect. When I read your words it seemed so obvious. It's the same style of training I'm doing with everything else. Thanks.
Boy, puppies are cool! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posts: 39 | From: San Bernardino County, CA | Registered: Sep 2009
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knockemdown
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posted April 14, 2011 08:07 AM
I did about the same with my pup and he's fine. Also, I bring him to work with me and it is always loud & noisy here, so he's not skittish about booms and bangs. So I'm sure that helped in partially de-sensitizing him to loud noises...
I was plinkin' with the .22 a couple weeks back and had the pup out with me. After the 1st shot, he actually ran out where to where I shot toward and began looking around & behind the target for some fur to chew on!
Funny how that association is already getting ingrained in him...
Good luck with your pup!!!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
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posted April 14, 2011 09:09 AM
I WANT A DOG! <sniff>
edit: take him to the range!
[ April 14, 2011, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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nd coyote killer
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posted April 14, 2011 09:33 AM
I usually start with a cap gun while they are running around in the yard playing. Hold back their food for a little later than normal so that they are hungary and fire the cap gun around them when they are eating. Once this isn't a problem i will start with a 22 but i like to have them doing something "fun" when they are hearing the shot "chewing on fur or barking at a coyote in a trap ect" take your time if you make a pup gun shy they are useless for life if it's for coyote hunting
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
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posted April 14, 2011 10:30 AM
I always start a pup out by clapping my hands loudly, right by their ear, while they are eating. Then I graduate to banging a pot. I also would get thunder souds playing on the stereo so he would get used to storms. Then I do like the other have said.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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RonFin
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posted April 14, 2011 02:13 PM
quote:
I WANT A DOG! <sniff>
edit: take him to the range
We have been dogless for about 6 months since the last of our pack (3 dogs) went away to chase coyotes and rabbits in the sky (yep, sniff). As much as I really love dogs, there was a lot of freedom not having any for a while.
I haven't been to a range in years. One thing or another seems to always get in the way of a calm and peaceful state of mind.
I've got a spot about 4 miles from the house that I use for load testing. I've even taken the laptop and read this forum between shots, to help keep a cool barrel.
TR, I'm gonna take my pup out to my spot and use your method.
Knockem, This pup is REALLY interested in squirrel holes. I think he and I will be competing for ground squirrels. I shoot ground squirrels here at home, but am holding off until I get him use to the sound.
nd and tl, Thanks for the ideas, I'm on it starting today. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
BTW...Seems to be a bright puppy. He crapped on the carpet the first night, I took it and him out to the dog shit area, showed him "this is where this goes". That was it. He goes outside every time!
Posts: 39 | From: San Bernardino County, CA | Registered: Sep 2009
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Leonard
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posted April 14, 2011 03:40 PM
You know, years ago, we had a poodle when the kids were little. Mimi was a sweet dog, but if you didn't pick up on her faint signals, she would pee on the carpet and rather suddenly, we had her sleeping in the garage.
So, when we got a Redbone, I was very keen on housebreaking that dog ASAP. Every few hours, I would wake her up and carry her out the door and drop her in the grass off the porch. This was a ritual that went on for several weeks and she would sniff around a bit and climb the steps and want inside, and I would pick her up and drop her in the grass again and again and again, sometimes for 30 minutes at a time. It was exasperating, she just didn't need to "go"?
Anyway, the joke was on me; this dog had cast iron kidneys, and never once in sixteen years did she have an accident in the house. She trained herself, apparently, because she was so small when we got her that with 10 brothers and sisters and living in a box, she had no previous training. I'm sure of that. She also decided where to crap and it was a great location, never varied. My son could practically stand in one spot and scoop up a couple weeks of used dog food.
GH/LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
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posted April 14, 2011 04:01 PM
Just to start the shit storm, and staying in charactar as a mailman, and going off my past experiences with pits, put the muzzle of the gun as close to the back of his/ her head as you can before you pull the trigger and he/she shouldn't even hear the bang.
Possession of a pit bull mix of any percentage in my town is a $250 fine plus court costs. No use for them. Hate 'em.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
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posted April 14, 2011 04:22 PM
Not withstanding the completely odd parentage, I don't have a hard opinion on mixed breeds, but when it comes to pi bulls, if I had my way, I'd kill every last one of them. A particularly poor example of MAN'S BEST FRIEND, if I ever saw one. I mean, I don't get it with the Mexicans and blacks and keeping vicious animals?
Some people seem to think that they, (pit bulls) are misunderstood? I understand them. They cannot be trusted, they attack grown humans and kill children. What's so hard to understand about that? I have zero sympathy for pit bulls and if you put me in charge, I could solve the problem. I mean, I love dogs but I hate dogs that are aggressive to humans. We don't need them, there are lots of wonderful dogs available; why in hell do people want a pit bull?
GH/LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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RonFin
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posted April 14, 2011 08:49 PM
Oh Shit! Truth is when I first heard pit in the mix I wasn't thrilled. But, I have always believed it's more the owner than the breed. I can tell you are both going to disagree with that theory.
Despite the old adage regarding mail...rain, sleet, snow, dark of night...No need to be concerned about your fellow mailman. The USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, et al don't deliver on my dirt road. No neighbors either.
Seriously, go ahead a lay it all out. You guys sure it's the breed and I'm making a mistake? Not that you weren't clear. I figured I could control him.?
Just re-read your posts. Guess I can't expect any softening of you opinions. Still like to hear 'em.
Posts: 39 | From: San Bernardino County, CA | Registered: Sep 2009
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Leonard
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posted April 14, 2011 10:12 PM
No. I tried to keep from offending you by saying that I was not condemning mixed breeds. I wouldn't slam a man's dog without a good reason and I didn't. I specifically said that I have no use for pit bulls; not dogs that have pit bull in their background.
Really, the US Army wouldn't ship my grandson's rottweiller to Alaska, or pit bulls, either. That's their policy. Singled those two breeds as unacceptable. I don't think the reason is a mystery?
GH/LB
edit: by the way, you certainly get points for rescuing a pup. I have talked to the staff at our city shelter. They have an especially hard time placing pit bulls. I think it's a shame that people give up on their animal, shirk their responsibility and then they know that somebody else won't want it, and they don't care as long as they are off the hook.
[ April 14, 2011, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
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posted April 15, 2011 04:43 AM
Surprised to hear that about the military, Leonard. Junction City is the city most closely assigned to Fort Riley and I hear nightmares from guys over there regarding pits, rotties, and the like. Abilene has a lot of military and it seems that better than half of them have to have the biggest, meanest dog on the block. We refer to them as "four-legged phallic symbols".
IMO, there was a time, and there very well may bloodlines left today within each respective breed which are still docile and true to their original breed standards as far as temperament. But, through selective breeding by people who know nothing about training a dog, or culling out undesirable behavioral traits, many of the pit and Staffordshire breeds are now on a very short, lit fuse. The dogs are victims of not-so-well-intending owners and breeders and doing only what the motherboard in their brains tells them to do.
I learned long ago that the nature versus nurture debate only goes so far. Many animals are hardwired for much of what they display as behavior, including people. When I was running coonhounds, you could tell a pup that was going to do well at 8 weeks because when you put him down, his nose went to the ground and he began sniffing around even though he didn't have a clue as to what he was looking for. I also learned from longtime houndsmen to hunt over the parents because the pups were going to behave and perform as their sire and dam do.
[ April 15, 2011, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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RonFin
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posted April 15, 2011 07:25 AM
LB, re-read your post. I do see your distinction regarding mixed breeds and pits. I didn't read it that way the first time. And to be transparent on the "rescue", my wifes friend found the pup dumped in her unlocked garage in the city one morning. Her husband in Afganistan said no to having a second dog. My wife met the pup and came home describing his disposition as "as calm as Ben" (one of our last dogs). I gave in, and here we are. The pup had a very socialized couple of months with the above family of kids and another dog.
The two vets this dog has seen for shots and upcoming neutering have listed him as weimaraner mix. I suspect they avoid using the name pit?
Cdog, It's this pups smart and calm demeaner that gives me hope he can become a beta to my alfa (me).
I'm guessing that my asking for training advise would make one suspect I lack training knowledge. Fact is, I have sucessfully trained a handful of dogs. It's the gun part that I have only tried once before. Back then it wasn't such a big deal as I lived in the city and wasn't exposing the dog to almost daily shooting.
BTW...This pup is all one color. A very dark grey, every single hair. Some have called him a blue. He certainly doesn't have that fat pit head, but he does have the smaller pit ears.
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
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posted April 15, 2011 07:45 AM
My dad trained probably a hundred beagles over the years, and started them all off with a cap pistol at feeding time, graduating to 22 blanks, and finally shotguns in the field. Never had a gun shy dog in any of our packs. We were always careful to not shoot right next to them on their first trips afield.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
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Leonard
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posted April 15, 2011 09:07 AM
Lance, I'm saying that the Army will not handle those two breeds for shipment along with household goods, etc. That's what I was told. Now, I don't know if Junction City is actually military housing, but maybe, if it's not, then that might be one of the reasons why some soldiers choose not to live 100% within the Army environment? Another thing is that they give up their housing allotment, on post, but on the economy they can often find comparable, for less and maybe pocket a couple hundred? Less rules, too.
GH/LB
edit: speaking of that rotty that was left behind with my son and other grandson. One day, I was over there, nobody else at home and came through the back gate. When that dog saw me he came at me and I felt VERY threatened, and backed off. I could have easily went to my truck and came back with the .45 and settled that situation, but I didn't. He wound up tearing into the cage and killing the Iguana and up and died about a month later, more or less? Maybe he was sick, never knew, but when a dog that size comes at you, you don't really want to fight him. Better off dead, in my opinion.
[ April 15, 2011, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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CrossJ
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posted April 15, 2011 09:32 AM
I have had several pit cross pups over the years, and one pure bitch that raised two litters. Never had a problem. I even have some pics on a crashed computer with my kids in the pen with the bitch and her pups. My dogs did not roam or run loose. Like all my hunting dogs, they remained confined unless in the environment they were intended for....hunting. I also agree with Lance, the nature vs nurture thing only goes so far. Unfortunatly,alot of good breeds today have been ruined by a cultural popularity and total ignorance by the breeder. I will admit, that if I happened to be in the 'hood' and stumbled across someone sporting a pit, I would be as nervous as if the were sporting a Benelli. My first thoughts would be that they weren't intended for hunting.
Maintain
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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JD
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posted April 15, 2011 10:06 AM
I'm no expert on Pitbulls but I do own a couple Airedales and can tell you that a Terrier in general has a little more piss and vinegar than the average dog and a set of jaws to back it up, I keep my dogs well secured at all times. They love kids and adults alike and have never shown agression to anyone UNLESS they are home alone, God help the foolish person who shows up at my house when I'm not here, just ask my father-in-law, who usually pets them when he is here. They seem to know when that behavior is appropriate, but I keep them secured so nobody can get hurt, only scared.
I think Pits have been ruined by total idiots with no clue how to train and care for a terrier breed, it's too bad really.
One thing I know for sure is that the large terriers have an incredible set of jaws, I still cringe when my big male grabs a coon or coyote by the neck or mid section and you can hear that crunching sound as they tighten up on the poor critter.
It scares the hell outta me to see people walking Pits in public places, I know that many are lovable friendly dogs but with their ability to break bones with those jaws, what if a child gets in their face, as children will do with a dog. And these dick heads that let them run free or on a chain in the front yard or they get loose in an apartment complex....it's no wonder that the only answer is to outlaw the breed.
Lance, I don't know what you get paid but I'm not sure I would do a job that required me to fight off dogs for less than triple the normal rate.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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George Ackley
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posted April 15, 2011 11:35 AM
pits , I love them!
nothing like being alone in the middle of a 80,000 Acer ranch at 2 am and feeling completely safe with a 60 lb pit and us taken on a 300 lb hog .
i think most don't like them because they are the dog the brothers like
me and a 60lb pits nights workout
like i said i love ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) but to each his own
[ April 15, 2011, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted April 15, 2011 11:57 AM
Now that's how they should be used, nice pic George.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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Leonard
HMFIC
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posted April 15, 2011 01:24 PM
Amen to that. Come to think of it, the time I went pig hunting up in King City with Nessen Schmidt, he had a pit bull with a bit off tail. Ugly son of a bitch, dirty white. The meanest dog in the bunch was a Jack Russell, and he enjoyed the coveted spot in the middle of the spare tire, and defended that spot to the death, at least he looked like he would?
Anyway, that ugly white pit bull was strictly a sight hound, but he could scrap with those hogs, I testify to that.
Nessen was impressed with predator hunter shooting and offered to take us out the next day for a couple freebees, he was so tired of dudes that can't ht the side of a barn if inside with the doors closed.
That guy is a giant, like George, but slimmer. I wouldn't mind hunting with Nessen again.
GH/LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
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posted April 15, 2011 03:03 PM
Phil Gordon with a purebred pit female and a half pit half blackmouth.
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted April 16, 2011 08:54 PM
I've owned bulldogs as pets and they've all been excellent companions. Not man aggressive in the least, but I never trusted them with other dogs! That'd be like trusting a shorthair to befriend a cock pheasant...not gonna happen!
Problem with is when you DO have a man aggressive bulldog, you've got a REAL liability on your hands...
I remember reading somewhere a quote (verbatim): " if ya can't shoe a horse or shoot a dog, ya shouldn't own either one". I happen to agree completely.
It has only been in recent history that 'man biter' working bulldogs are not culled on the spot. That, and the fact that they've become the favorite 'gangsta' or 'tough guy' pet (like mine were to me as a teen), is why problems with man aggression has become more widespread...
Like most every other breed that has gone to shit, unsound breeding & lack of culling has gotten us what we have today.
I don't think many 'alligator' coonhounds make it back out to the truck if they happen to get fresh with a hunter.
Nor was a man aggressive bulldog tolerated in the pit.
Problem eliminated and no bad genes passed.
Still, a mean dog is a mean dog.
The huge surge in popularity of bulldogs and rampant backyard breeding makes owning one nowadays a crapshoot, at best, and not hardly worth the risk.
Shame, cause a good one really is an incredible animal...
[ April 16, 2011, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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