The New Huntmastersbbs!: Any turkey hunters

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 13, 2011, 12:54 PM:

Anyone (besides Andy) want to identify the species, play fair, no google.

Took these pics in my yard last Monday from the garage window.

Took these about 10 minutes ago off my deck

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 13, 2011, 01:16 PM:

Those are annoying bastards. Fun to call, but if you screw up, they go everywhere, scattering like quail. No rhyme or reason to them, unlike a coyote. At least you can anticipate a coyote's escape route. You sit there and watch them 200 yards away peenting like a hen and they just ignore you. After about an hour, you're itching for your rifle so you can just put an end to the madness. Annoying bastards. LOL

I didn't know you actually hunted turkeys. We just call it "turkey killin'" 'cause that's about all there is to it, compared to calling predators.

My guess is Eastern X Rios which is what Kansas has. If not the standard hybrid, I'd say Easterns.

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on March 13, 2011, 01:32 PM:

Tufted titmouse gigantor?

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 13, 2011, 01:33 PM:

Ill be right over!!

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on March 13, 2011, 01:38 PM:

Look like Eastern's from here. [Wink]

[ March 13, 2011, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 13, 2011, 04:12 PM:

Quit putting steroids in your quail feeder; it's not funny anymore. [Big Grin]

Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 13, 2011, 04:13 PM:

Butterball. Eastern variety.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 14, 2011, 07:01 AM:

guys up where I hunt call 'em "shit chickens"...

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 14, 2011, 04:53 PM:

Shit chickens is the winner!!!

No, We got rios just south and merriams just north but these are just brain dead hybrids, they really seem to thrive but they sure are dumb bastards. There is one area where I shoot p-dogs that I've seen these dumbshits just hang around within 50 yds or so of the rifles blazing away. One landowner adjacent to that area has counted upward of 500 on his property. blah blah blah.....

Lance is the winner, now for the prize....an all expense paid trip for one full week to the Tim Anderson school of narcissistic road hunting!!! Congrats!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 14, 2011, 05:41 PM:

Thanks J-D..

Lance get youre will made out! youre gonna need it.... [Big Grin]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 14, 2011, 06:01 PM:

I figured out where Timmy finds all his information to post on the www

This is Tim doing his daily research

[ March 14, 2011, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: JD ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 14, 2011, 06:11 PM:

Golly, tim, considering the close relationship we share, that statement would land your sorry ass in jail where I live. Maybe I ought to print it out and save it. Whaddya think, 49? Sound like a threat to you? I'm discounting the emoticon as it, like tim, is irrelevant.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 14, 2011, 07:03 PM:

Like I said before Lance no one has any idea of how we do things up here and the will is for incase you tip over from a heart attack. You have such a good imagination thats for sure...

Oh by the way the advice you gave on the other thread about watching what Or how I say things or I could get black-balled was good advice so thanks...
You of course should follow youre same advice since you are the one out there that is in the lime light sort to speak that can do more damage than little ol me..LOL
As for the Mr. coyote award its mine and if you want Shaw to have one just like it then he has to go win it for himself..LOL

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 14, 2011, 09:22 PM:

code:

 We just call it  [QUOTE]"turkey killin'"  [/QUOTE]  'cause that's about all there is to it, compared to calling predators.

really. well then maybe its true, the game east of the Mississippi is harder to get.
the just killin quote was a bad choice of word from a sportsman.

I dont think i have had a easy turkey hunt yet

[ March 14, 2011, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 15, 2011, 04:07 AM:

Tim,

The true use of imagination is with those whose first impression of your statement is like yours. If the e-mails I have rec'd during the night are any indication, this is a relatively unimaginative crowd. More of your two stepping.

George,

Maybe so, and I guess it must be harder to hunt east of the Miss because I have hunted turkeys twice. In Kansas, we are allowed up to two birds. It isn't at all uncommon for a 12 year old kid to fill both his tags the first day out. For the past several years, our state agency has contemplated removing turkey from the big game list and relisting them as upland game because we have so many of them, they cause a lot of damage, farmers hate them and they're just not the same level of challenge as deer, antelope and elk. Yes, maybe "killing" was a word that could have been substituted for, but I was simply quoting what a friend of mine had said who, like me, is a coyote caller and for who, like me, turkey hunting was a vastly unrewarding venture. All I did was went out, called a few, had a few bust out, but with not so much effort, sat down, called again and killed a turkey. Next year, thinking I'd just been lucky, I did the same thing again. Haven't spent a dime on a tag since.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 15, 2011, 04:40 AM:

Big George, spring turkey hunting actually does seem easy, as compared to calling coyotes here! Not discounting your experiences, but there is no comparison, far as the challenge goes, IMHO...

I've had some drawn out chess matches with big toms where I've been handily beaten, but have also had them commit suicide to a couple yelps. Seems like it depends on how they feel every morning?
I like to think that even if a big ol' tom turkey had a nose to wind us, he'd still be only HALF as savvy as a coyote!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2011, 08:49 AM:

Note to whoever it was that complained about Tim's spelling and punctuation. Thanks. It just made it worse.

example:

"Lance get youre will made out! youre gonna need it...."

Good hunting. LB

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 15, 2011, 10:26 AM:

looks to me, resident turkey hunter in Kansas are only 58% successful on there first bird
38% successful on the secant turkey,so I disagree with your thinking that it is common for a 12 year old to harvest 2 birds in one day. done yes but not common

I will say this, it was late last night when I seen your post and I AGAIN replied with out much thought .
now looking back what I was trying to say is our sport can be played many ways and I myself don't think there is a wrong way as long as its within the letter of the law. what I don't realize and often forget to think about sometime not all of us think alike.
hunting is what it is,, and you only get out of it,what you put into it. it's as easy as you make it and as hard as you wont it be. I hunt more then most and the day it becomes easy is the day i will look for a new sport.

knockemdown

quote:
I like to think that even if a big ol' tom turkey had a nose to wind us, he'd still be only HALF as savvy as a coyote!

its all relative pal ,
there are many places I hunt across this country were the coyotes are way easer to harvest then any other game in that area.

so i guess like most game saying he'd still be only HALF as savvy as a coyote!
is only relative to your area your hunting

[ March 15, 2011, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by GC (Member # 3718) on March 15, 2011, 11:08 AM:

quote:
I've had some drawn out chess matches with big toms where I've been handily beaten, but have also had them commit suicide to a couple yelps. Seems like it depends on how they feel every morning?
I like to think that even if a big ol' tom turkey had a nose to wind us, he'd still be only HALF as savvy as a coyote!

Surely you have had some young and dumb coyotes come hammering to the call too, right? Occasionally even coyotes volunteer themselves too easily for their own good. Overall, I'd certainly give coyotes the edge over gobblers most days in the wariness department. However, a three or four year old Ozark Mountain gobbler is a tough trophy and quite hard earned most times.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 15, 2011, 11:10 AM:

Fair enough, George. As far as using the term "killing", I have used that, along with "whacked", "punched", "keyholed", "hammered" and a variety of others to describe the act of taking the coyote when hunting. One term I have grown to cringe at is "harvested". Let's face it - it's killing. The coyote, or the turkey, dies. End of story. I don't apologize for another person's sensitivity. They know what I mean so it doesn't really matter how I candy coat it. They're not gonna like it either way. I know you weren't ranting about that, but I thought back on this conversation this morning while working and just thought I would address the issue anyway.

And when I said things must be harder to kill east of the Miss, I did not intend that to be a slight of you or your brethren there. In some ways, that is a fact. I have my theories as to why, but that's for another day.

[ March 15, 2011, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2011, 12:01 PM:

Well, the half baked theory coming from here is: ignored turkeys are probably naive turkeys. Hunted turkeys are probably wary turkeys. East or west. Rio Grande or Merriams.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on March 15, 2011, 12:26 PM:

The turkeys in those pics outnumber the human population of Nebraska. I think they counted 6 1/2 people in the last census.

JDThee! I'm reading Coyote Gods right now. You and TA LOVE one another. Andy too. You 3 need to hug it out!

Edited to add Coyote Gods drivel.

[ March 15, 2011, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 15, 2011, 12:50 PM:

you like a challenge , try calling in and video taping a mature tom in January.
saying they aren't as smart as a coyote while hunting them in there mating season may not be a far evaluation of there smarts or lack of . most any game gets stupid when matting season come around.
as for what I have seen and believe ,,, a mature tom has it all over any coyote in the smarts department.

ps

I believe that turkeys hear better and see better

[ March 15, 2011, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 15, 2011, 01:39 PM:

That's true George, mating season isn't a fair comparison for any game, even the wisest old buck acts like a darn fool in the middle of rut.

My question is this, do you think there is a difference in turkey behavior from one sub species to another? I guess what I mean is this, is it possible that these hybrids are dumber than an eastern or a rio. I haven't hunted turkeys elsewhere so I have nothing to compare to but to me these hybrids don't seem to bright. However the times when I've been on the Niobrara the Merriams seem spooky as hell, I'm certainly no expert, just a simple minded observation.

Lance, do you have the hybrids in your area or are they Rios?

Smithers......as far as giving Timmy a hug....I,m a little homophobic especially since we know what kind of bars he hangs out in......I think I'll pass.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2011, 01:48 PM:

Might be worthy of a separate thread although (it seems to me) that the question was answered a long time ago in the coyote's favor?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on March 15, 2011, 01:56 PM:

I have hunted Turkeys and Coyotes in Arkansas and Louisiana extensively. Turkeys since I was about 13 years old, my Dad loved it and brought me up doing so. I began calling coyotes in the mid 80's.

Around here, if a Turkey had the ability to smell you, he would die of old age before you could eat him.

Without a doubt, in this part of the country, the Turkey is the toughest animal I have ever hunted.

Sure I have had them commit suicide. But so do the coyotes. Just the coyyotes do it with more regularity.

If I know a coyote is in a certain area. I will lay odds that I can kill him within the week 80% of the time. I have spent a whole season chasing one gobbler and never get a shot on him.

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on March 15, 2011, 02:07 PM:

I've walked to with in 12 ft of some turkeys around here. Some are dumb as rocks and others will run or fly off at the slightest movement. The dumb ones are always an off color peacock looking type hybrid.

JD, the thread in question amused the hell outta me! [Big Grin]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 15, 2011, 02:14 PM:

JD,

W&P says ours are hybrids.+

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2011, 02:24 PM:

Randy, it might be fair to say that killing a certain, specific problem coyote could be a challenge for most of us.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on March 15, 2011, 03:15 PM:

Leonard, I wouldn't know a problem coyote from a non problem coyote.

This stuff around here is different from anywhere I have ever traveled to call them. That is the reason I included, "in this part of the country"

A typical area to hunt here is as follows. large open cattle pastures or crop fields. Bordered with canals and locust thorn thickets. There is not much place for them to lay up except for those spots. If I see one or the land owner tells me where he sees one, I can generally kill it within a couple tries. Weather and activity levels will dictate how many chances it will take.

Now as for the Turkeys. I can know exactly where one is gobbling in the mornings, If I don't do everything right the first time at him, it gets tougher as the days go on.

[ March 15, 2011, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: RagnCajn ]

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 15, 2011, 04:59 PM:

I jut can't believe that a big ol' tom is as hard to kill as a coyote?

Find a big tom's strut zone & get there before him and you've got a REAL good chance of whackin' him!

The thing that makes a big ol' tom very difficult to kill is when he's surrounded by his hens. I've found three ways around that, and it ain't rocket surgery:

1. Get in tight on the roost and call him in before his hens assemble and drag him off

2. Call to the hens and hope they drag his struttin' butt within shottie range.

3. Get in that strut zone and wait for him. He'll be there AFTER his hens leave him at mid-morning.

Either of those three is how I kill all my toms. I've never NOT killed a spring longbeard since I began hunting them.
Don't ever use a blind and RARELY use a decoy. I like to stay mobile and move during the chess match, giving the tom a perception of a live, mobile hen...

Can't do either for a coyote.
Does anyone set up a ground blind to call coyotes??? Of course not...

And coyotes don't "gobble", giving you a constant 'update' as to their location! You may get a coyote to respond vocally, but counting on that to happen with any regularity is a crapshoot, at best...
Sure, some big toms slip in silent, but I'm ready for those jokers, too. Usually 'cause I'm already where they wanna be (strut zone).

Coyotes do what they want, when they want. If a hunter could pattern a coyote's movements like a turkey (or deer), we could just wait around and ambush 'em like any prey species. Heck, I can't even stand to watch turkey hunts on TV anymore, 'cause the hardest part of the hunt is setting the stinkin' blind up in the right spot and putting a half dozen taxidermy mount decoys out in front of it. That kinda crap ain't gonna fly on a coyote stand...

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy spring turkey hunting! But I just can't wrap my head around a gobbler being harder to call in than a coyote. NO way...

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 15, 2011, 05:22 PM:

I agree with Fred. Around here there are plenty of successful turkey callers.

You can't say the same thing for coyote callers.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2011, 05:31 PM:

Put a little pressure on those yard birds and they will wise up.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 15, 2011, 06:57 PM:

And then shoot them out the window of the truck?

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on March 15, 2011, 07:06 PM:

I will agree with Fred.
We have both Eastern and Rios here....as well as the hybrids.

quote:
hybrids are dumber than an eastern or a rio

With any cross between specific species, heterosis occurs. Since both species have survived and adapted well to their specific environments, I would doubt that this 'cross' is dumber than either of the two species.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 15, 2011, 07:17 PM:

quote:
is it possible that these hybrids are dumber than an eastern or a rio.

quote:
With any cross between specific species, heterosis occurs. Since both species have survived and adapted well to their specific environments, I would doubt that this 'cross' is dumber than either of the two species.

You're probably right cross, they just seem dumber for some reason.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2011, 07:21 PM:

quote:
And then shoot them out the window of the truck?

If thats the only way you can get one J-Dtree I'm sure no-one would object to it...

Problem with some turkeys being easey to kill is they don't get hunted enough.. If there used to going up into J-Dtrees yard to feed for example they get used to people being around..
Had the same problem here when turkeys were introduced. They were released on public land but soon found they were safer on private land that only had a few hunters after them.. Seems to be smart enough to figure that out. Thin down the numbers abit and have more hunters after them they will smarten up right quick..

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on March 15, 2011, 07:47 PM:

quote:
they just seem dumber for some reason.

LOL....maybe they are just more 'confident'.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2011, 08:11 PM:

Ok, does anybody know a decent strategy for hunting summer turkeys?? [Confused]

Here in Az. (unit 27) we have archery deer & bear, cougar and turkey all open in August, along with trout in the streams. It's a sweet deal, but the turkeys are pretty much just targets of oppurtunity without a plan.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 15, 2011, 08:21 PM:

Sheeesh, That sounds like a hell of a camping/hunting/fishing trip Koko.

BTW, I just looked up that bible verse in your sig line.....very appropriate.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2011, 08:28 PM:

Yeah, and on top of everything else, it's up in the big pines.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 16, 2011, 04:17 AM:

49, the snow got beat back enough with all this rain of late and work let me get away, so we went up & kilt one on Saturday for ya... [Smile]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 16, 2011, 04:57 AM:

Nice...

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 16, 2011, 06:07 AM:

August turkey ,
I would concentrate on talking with the females , sounds of choose would be soft clucks and puts and purrs
that time of year many of the birds of the year that are 3 months old are out and running around so acembly sound would be the killer like a keekee. toms aren't going to be interest in your calling but there a chance of dragging one in with feeding calls and sounds of content like soft purrs and popping .that time of the year your kill lots of young birds . we can only harvest turkey by way of calling in PA we cant stalk or just sit for them we have to make a sound

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 16, 2011, 06:37 AM:

Ok, much thanx. I'll give that a try.

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 16, 2011, 06:51 AM:

49,

quote:
I agree with Fred. Around here there are plenty of successful turkey callers.

You can't say the same thing for coyote callers.

yea but around here there are plenty of turkey [Big Grin]

You can't say the same thing for coyote

JD,

here is what I think about sub species of turkeys including what you guys call highbred .
the only thing that makes them different is root number highways and home range in Florida the difference between a Oceola and a eastern turkey is RT 50 anything harvested south of rt 50 is a Oceola and anything north of rt 50 is a eastern ,, turkeys are turkey just like coyotes the differences in killing them is like I said before turain and pressure.

knockemdown

quote:
Find a big tom's strut zone & get there before him and you've got a REAL good chance of whackin' him!

hunting strut zones is a fairy tale, turkey will strut when the moment arises no particular place . nor does it mean if they are there today they will be there tomorrow. after the morning breeding toms will more likely be looking for hens then finding strut zones. your better off going back to a location you were working a hened up tom later in the day and trying him again because if he as left the hens and looking for more love he will most likely return to the area he herd you last and seek you out.
strut zones they fall in the line of hunting rubs and scrapes for deer , they are like fire plugs, every dog that runs across it will leave its mark big or little . nether one strut zones or rubs and scrapes would help in harvesting mature critters in my opinion .

the 3 tectonics you mention are fine for killing turkeys, but they are text book sinuous and I have found that they don't mean much when targeting big toms.

I am no educated expert I only look at thing from experiences and time in the woods so I will tell yea what I think. and i by no mens fill all my tags each year or have i killed a turkey in PA every year. i have harvested over 50 tom turkeys and helped in the harvesting of at least 25 more.
I am a true believer in the truth of pressure,
wether its due to human or predator. put a pray animal under pressure and they become harder to hunt.. location geographically ,breeding is what dictates wether they are easily harvested or not.

lets talk about what I think I know of turkey.

1, even though a turkeys brain maybe the size of a pea they have the ability of communication & reasoning.

As for there Communication ability and there comprehension of sounds is equal to a coyote or better.
turkeys have a large sound library for communicating with each other
many times I have changed up sounds on a inbound coyote from going from a rabbit or bird distress to a lip
squeak or a coyote vocalization and it seldom disrupt's there though's of getting to the sound.
turkeys will seldom fall for this, big tom turkeys will check up as if they hit a invisible wall with one wrong note or a change in cadence or a sound that's not in there vocabulary . what I am trying to say is, you can get away with a mistake with your calling sounds more with coyotes then turkeys and this is with pressure and location being equal.

As for there Reasoning, turkeys, I have seen them do things that have only led me to believe they are hard thinkers .
Most likely this is because they are the pray not the predator.
There are many obstacles a turkey will not pass though to get to your calling I have seen toms not cross a 3 foot wide creek to get to my calling and this is the time most game will do or make these mistakes do to breeding temptation. big toms put safety before love most of the time this is why me as the hunter need to know the obstacles and terrain in the area I am calling just as I do in calling coyotes here in the east.
The differences are when the coyotes start there breeding is when they put safety aside and do things they would have never done out side of breeding season.
Both critters turkey and coyotes make mistakes I know this but in my experiences turkey make WAY LESS when it comes to tricking them with sound....

and I can live with us disagreeing . everyone has there way

[ March 16, 2011, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 16, 2011, 07:21 AM:

quote:
yea but around here there are plenty of turkey You can't say the same thing for coyote

I agree 100% George.

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 16, 2011, 07:28 AM:

49, did you get you PA spring tags?
i will be runnong and gunning for turkeys and coyotes come the opener, the hole first week in Pike 2 week Bradford

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 16, 2011, 07:35 AM:

I didn't get them George. I have had some personal stuff going on and haven't been thinking about hunting much at all.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 16, 2011, 07:54 AM:

Interesting observations, George. But I'm not buying the notion that a turkey can reason. No way, no how...

quote:
As for there Reasoning, turkeys, I have seen them do things that have only led me to believe they are hard thinkers .
Most likely this is because they are the pray not the predator.

What you are seeing is a manifestation of instinct & conditioned response. Turkeys don't "stop & think about" any stimulus, they are at the mercy of their senses and those senses are hard wired (instinct) to keep doing what turkeys do.
That is not reason, or thought.
Your perception of such is what can be termed as anthropomorphism

quote:
hunting strut zones is a fairy tale, turkey will strut when the moment arises no particular place . nor does it mean if they are there today they will be there tomorrow.

As for strut zones, that ain't sumthin' I read about in a hunting rag.
And I'll concede that my definition of a 'strut zone' is based on what I've seen firsthand...

I have killed turkeys on consecutive years on the same part of a ridgeline year after year. And some of those turkeys have fallen within shotgun range of where the one did the previous year. To me, that is an established 'strut zone', and there will be another big tom using it this year, come springtime... [Smile]

Also, how many times have you had a turkey "hang up" and strut back & forth gobbling & waiting for you (the hen) to show up in his 'zone'? I've learned that some big toms won't even answer (gobble) back at a call if they are not in their 'strut zone'.
If you're sneaky enough, you can move in on a gobblin' tom as he struts to the far end of his 'zone', but that's a dicey tactic.

Better is to have this 'zone' figured out, based on previous successes and set up shop there, waiting for big bubba to show up. The real sneaky old suckas won't even gobble! (they don't have to gobble, 'cause you (the hen) is already where he wants you!) So you need to remain especially vigilant when parking your butt in a 'strut zone' before ol' jellyhead arrives...

quote:
after the morning breeding toms will more likely be looking for hens then finding strut zones.

Exactly! And those big toms will be looking for the hens in their 'strut zone' [Smile]

You need to remember one thing about big toms. THEY ARE THE BOSS and they make the RULES!
The hens go to them, not the other way around.
That is what makes a mature gobbler somewhat more difficult to kill, as opposed to a jake or 2yr old.
And those big toms know EXACTLY where those hens are going. Heck, the hens don't just vanish into thin air, right? These bird live together in the same woods, so there's no 'hide & seek' going on. When a hen is ready to find that big tom, she'll come a-callin' for HIM, IN HIS STRUT ZONE. (this is just my opinion, remember)

That all said, I'll maintain that a big ol' longbeard not as difficult to kill as calling/killing a coyote.

Even more so, if you take into account the average distance at which each are killed. How much easier would it be if a gobbler could be killed by a hunter with centerfire rifle? Boy, that'd make it even more-easier-er! You could whack a big tom out of a crop field from two hundred yards away, just like a circling coyote...

Vice versa, how much more difficult would it be to kill a coyote if you had to take them only with a shotgun (<~50yds)?
Level the playing field in that regard, then you'll really see the disparity in difficulty...
At the risk of anthropomorphizing myself, I'll say that a coyote has got a lot more 'wits' about it than any pea-brained evolved dinosaur turkey.
Turkeys indeed do have razor sharp senses, but don't mistake those finely tuned survival instincts as being cognitive thought!

Good discussion! And I can also agree to disagree [Smile]

[ March 16, 2011, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 16, 2011, 08:52 AM:

Okay, I'm gonna write this all down. They tell us we have some turkeys in SoCal, but I have never seen one? I have seen the turds left under a tree, and I know the difference, M/F. Are they good to eat, I heard; not so much?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 16, 2011, 10:21 AM:

quote:
I'm not buying the notion that a turkey can reason. No way, no how...

well i guess it all up to how you interpret the word reasoning,
as a uneducated man I interpret it as "thinking" and turkeys have to be able to think or they would just stand still and starve to death.
you say he will return to a strut zone to gather more hens. what if he encountered more then one in more then 1 location earlier in the day will he just return to his what you call strut zone or will he return to were he herd the hens and make a new strut zone as you call it ? and if he does, is that reasoning or thinking .

quote:
Also, how many times have you had a turkey "hang up" and strut back & forth gobbling & waiting for you (the hen) to show up in his 'zone'?

its the tom turkey way of life to have the hens come to him my interpretation of a gobble is
(I am over here bitches ) and nothing more . its out of his comfort level to go to the hens and when he comes across any thing that makes him THINK OR REASON that it unsafe he will hold up.
so yes it happen to me all the time this is why knowing the area helps.

quote:
I've learned that some big toms won't even answer (gobble) back at a call if they are not in their 'strut zone'.

its the hole strut zone thing that confuses me .
they spend 90 percent of the day out of a strut zone. at first light they are in a tree then its off with the lady's then feeding there way around looking for more ass. then back with the lady's . if in saying strut zone you mean his core are that's one thing but my thought of a strut zone is a very small area that's measured in square yards not acers. i guess i would have to hear you definition of said strut zone .

quote:
If you're sneaky enough, you can move in on a gobblin' tom as he struts to the far end of his 'zone', but that's a dicey tactic.

dicey to say the least and illegal in PA to stalk turkey

quote:
You need to remember one thing about big toms. THEY ARE THE BOSS and they make the RULES!

no i make the rules and you use to many big words in your post so i will leave this conversation now [Big Grin]

LB
They taste good ,, they have a overwhelming taste of shit [Big Grin]

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on March 16, 2011, 10:23 AM:

LB the breast are good, cut them into strips and serve with FRIED OKRA.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 16, 2011, 10:58 AM:

quote:
if in saying strut zone you mean his core are that's one thing but my thought of a strut zone is a very small area that's measured in square yards not acers. i guess i would have to hear you definition of said strut zone .

Pretty much half of my last post was describing what I perceive a 'strut zone' to be.

Nope, it ain't a 'dance floor' in the woods.

Could be a 1/4 mile stretch of hardwood ridge, or a 100 acre crop field. Or anything in between. One thing fo' sho', the turkey likes to 'strut' there, so that's where he hangs out when he not feeding/sleeping or travelling to/from. My point was that it is our job to figure out where
that happens to be and get there before he does...

And I wasn't advocating, nor did I use the word "stalk" within the context of slipping into a tom's 'strut zone'.
You know as well as I do that a tom will work a ridge (or field) back & forth when he's fired up & gobblin'. So here's what I was gettin' at:

As the gobbler moves 'back', I move 'forth'. So when he moves 'forth', I'm already there, in his strut zone
Throw in a couple clucks/purrs and he's gonna catch a beak full of #5s!

I used the term 'dicey' to convey that you may just get busted by moving too close to the tom. So it's a risky tactic in that regard, not from being a potentially unsafe, or illegal practice.
I don't advocate, nor do I ever "stalk" a turkey!

I just don't agree with you that a turkey can "think". When they beat us in the field, it's nice for US to think they think! But I just don't think there is any thinkin' going on inside a turkey's thinkin' cap.

I really don't think so...

Think about it!

[ March 16, 2011, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 16, 2011, 11:14 AM:

Would this be considered a turkeys strut zone?? http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Wildlife/IMG_0740.jpg[/IMG]]

I think wild turkey tastes pretty good. I put mine in a meat smoker and then finish in the oven...

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on March 16, 2011, 11:33 AM:

I think George and Knockemdown are pretty much in agreement of what a strut zone is. It can happen anywhere like George described, but it is usually a place they visit regularly, to feed, dust, or somewhere they feel safe from predators and is usually somewhat open with an established escape route.

I also don't think a turkey uses reasoning, but it has built in reactions to stimuli.

Big old mature gobblers will go to hens frequently. The mythical "strut zone" as knockemdown describes isn't a place where they gobble and wait for hens to show up, it is more of a decleration to other toms that this is my area. Like an elk bugle. The pussy makes the rules in almost every situation in the animal world.

Mature turkeys are hard to hunt. Jakes and two year old birds are easier, thats why they get killed like YOY coyotes. If you culd hunt turkeys with a rifle you could pretty much wipe them off the face of the earth. You can't say that about coyotes which is why the coyote wins the "tougher to hunt battle" in my opinion.

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 16, 2011, 12:39 PM:

Knockemdown

Ok i am done thinking about it and here what i came up with

STRUT ZONE,
they are just that, a dance floor! its a small area of the woods were Mr. tom will strut to be seen.
and also it is measured in yards not acers .
it can be a spot at a field edge or a small open area where he feels he can see or be seen .
most of the time he will just walking back and forth strutting.
that is a strut zone

quote:
I used the term 'dicey' to convey that you may just get busted by moving too close to the tom. So it's a risky tactic in that regard, not from being a potentially unsafe, or illegal practice.
I don't advocate, nor do I ever "stalk" a turkey!

see i always thought moving in on game after you seen them would be stalking .

you said

quote:
If you're sneaky enough, you can move in on

.

witch is stalking and illegal to do in PA

.

[ March 16, 2011, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 16, 2011, 12:45 PM:

.

[ March 16, 2011, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 16, 2011, 03:32 PM:

George...Let me get this straight. You hear a gobbler on the roost before daylight and you must immediately sit down because if you advance to improve your position it would be considered stalking and this is illegal in PA? Give me a break.

Also, by your own admission, the turkeys brain is the size of a pea and they are capable of thinking/reasoning. You say if they could not think/reason they would just stand around all day and die of starvation. Give me another break.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 16, 2011, 03:36 PM:

Aw c'mon George.
Do you REALLY think RE-POSITIONING on a gobblin' bird is the same as STALKING?

Seriously???

Anyhoo, enough with the semantics about how many big a friggin' 'strut zone' is. I don't need to define one in terms of acrage to be able to kill a tom in one.

Point is, I've killed plenty enough turkeys and gettin' darn near enough coyotes here in NY (and PA for that matter) to know that a coyote is considerably harder to kill than a (stupid) bird with really good sensory perception.

I don't wish to be drawn into any further debate, 'cause it's just gettin' silly now.

EDIT: typing the same time as R.Shaw was to make the same exact point

[ March 16, 2011, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 16, 2011, 04:06 PM:

I'm still considering a stupid law against stalking a friggin' turkey. Where else but Pennsylvania? But, what is the point, and how in the hell do they enforce it? I suppose it's a felony, nothing is a misdemeanor anymore, except picking your nose at a stop sign?

Anybody, 'splain me.

Good hunting. LB

edit: btw, am I to believe that you cannot kill (illegal) a turkey with a rifle? Why would that be? A head shot is a head shot, is it not?

[ March 16, 2011, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 16, 2011, 04:41 PM:

LB
legislators right the game laws i just live here.
but we can use a rifle in the fall and take ether a tom or a hen

Fred
will just have to disagree. no one is getting drawn into anything.

quote:
George...Let me get this straight. You hear a gobbler on the roost before daylight and you must immediately sit down because if you advance to improve your position it would be considered stalking and this is illegal in PA? Give me a break.

yes! sorry I don't make the laws Mr Shaw spring turkey in PA can only be hunted by CALLING no stalking and repositioning your self to the sound of a gobble is stalking

quote:
Also, by your own admission, the turkeys brain is the size of a pea and they are capable of thinking/reasoning. You say if they could not think/reason they would just stand around all day and die of starvation. Give me another break.

you read it right, that's what I think. but I don't ever agree with you Mr shaw so i will give you a brake by backing away from this thread now.

peace

[ March 16, 2011, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 16, 2011, 05:15 PM:

George..Thanks for the break.

From PA Game and fish website
Expert tips on 4 turkey hunting situations

OPEN FIELDS
Without a doubt, this is one of the more difficult scenarios to successfully hunt, especially if the gobbler is already in the field when you get there.

Let's figure the worst: he's already in the field and he's with hens. For many experienced gobbler chasers, it doesn't get much worse than this. For the sake of reality, we're going to figure that you do not have grass high enough or any cover such as low spot where you can crawl and sneak into shotgun range or even cut the distance substantially.

Generally the birds, the gobbler and hens, will be moving in a basic direction. My strategy is to ascertain that general direction. Then, I will back out of the viewing position I'm in, get good cover between me and those birds and high-tail it toward their anticipated exit area. If the field is rectangular or square, they tend to migrate toward corners. If the field is an odd shape, but has an indentation cove or a protruding point, that's a high percentage target.

When approaching the open field for the setup, I use all the cover available and employ as much stealth as possible. I try to ensure that this spot is within the range of my gun to the edge of the field, hopefully close enough to shoot 15 to 20 yards into the field if necessary. The contour of the land and density of cover will dictate that on a case-by-case basis.

Sounds like stalking and improving ones position to me.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 16, 2011, 06:30 PM:

One big happy family.. [Big Grin]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 16, 2011, 07:34 PM:

I don't claim to be a bird guy, but I'm guessing that the ban on stalking is a safety issue. Nimrod hears birds gobbling, sneaks in & spots them (decoy). He takes the shot not knowing he's lined up with a camo'ed hunter. Ends badly for all concerned.

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 16, 2011, 07:39 PM:

Now I have found another source in PA that says hunting of turkeys can only be done by calling...NO STALKING. I was wrong and apologize to you George.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 16, 2011, 10:06 PM:

So, the only rationale I have heard, thus far is that by stalking and repositioning, I might shoot a hunter?

At least it is possible to use a rifle at certain times; that's not totally abstract bureaucratic bullshit.

Question: can I throw a rock?

AR, just because you found the law, doesn't mean you fathomed the logic. I can't think of another statute, here or there that requires a hunter to limit themselves to calling an animal? Not elk, quail, geese, predators, bass, polar bear and clams. I think it's weird, perhaps unconstintutional?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on March 17, 2011, 04:30 AM:

Oh hell.....isn't it obvious? Penn's game laws were written by turkeys! Real live honest to goodness wild turkeys. Their capacity to think and reason has made this survival trait possible.

Maintain

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 17, 2011, 04:35 AM:

Well, I said I was bowing out of this one, but I've been looking everywhere I can to find the PA Game Commission's official definition of "stalking" a turkey. So far, no dice...

Within the context of my understanding of the term, attempting to "stalk" within shotgun range of a gobbler is s fool's errand! I've never done it, for safety reasons, and the fact that a big ol' tom just ain't gonna let you get that close to him undetected anyway! Heck, the turkeys over here will booger if they see ya BLINK at 50yds, and that ain't no lie!

Although it also requires movement, re-positioning on a gobbler to call to it from a different location is an clearly NOT "stalking" the animal in an attempt to make a killing shot. A hunter who re-positions on a gobbler is simply attempting to improve his calling setup relative to the animal. So, again, I don't consider that to be a "stalk" in the true sense of the term...

This has piqued my interest to the point that I've been reading around on several PA hunting sites about this whole "stalking" deal. After a bit of web surfing, it seems that many of PA's own resident hunters don't even have a firm grasp on the legality of moving on a bird. The same questions brought up here were echoed everywhere I looked, but there were no definitive answers to be found...

If the PA Game Commision can define the ambiguity surrounding the term "stalking", then I'd sure like to see it in writing somewhere?

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 17, 2011, 05:43 AM:

Has to be for safety reasons. Pretty tough to enforce unless they use a mechanical turkey to entrap or a fellow sportsman narcs you out.

On a lighter note.

We were hunting west TX and during the day we noticed some turkey sign. I am thinking to myself...Where do these birds roost because there are no trees tall enough to afford much safety and the limbs arent big enough to support their weight?

That night we are moving along a powerline road about 2 in the morning. I have the white light dimmed down low when I see bulk on the next pole down the road.I mash the hood with the light and Quinton stops and shuts-down. Dialing up the light, I see 3 or 4 turkeys sitting on the cross member. Mystery solved.

However, about midway between the two poles there are 18-20 turkeys roosted on the line itself. Practically shoulder to shoulder, they are bunched up like a litter of kittens. About this time, the turkey nearest me on the end becomes nervous and starts moving around which in turn sets the line in motion. The ones in the middle are screwed because they do not have the option of lateral movement and can only shift their body weight forward and back in order to maintain balance. This only creates more swinging movement in the line. Imagine turkeys on a trapeze.

I am pretty sure instinct is telling them pitching- out to the ground in the middle of the night means certain death. Hell, thats why they were up there in the first place. These turkeys are hanging-on for dear life when one decides enough is enough and heads for the ground. I follow with the light to witness him crash into the brush and go ass-over-appetite to the desert floor. Lots of noise too. I return the light to the line just in time to see another do exactly the same thing.

I have turkeys swinging on a wire above me and others somersaulting through the brush below me and now the truck is shaking because Quinton is attempting to stifle his laughter. We move on. Maybe you had to be there?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 17, 2011, 07:13 AM:

I have no doubt Pennsylvania has several mechanical turkeys.

This reminds me of those "sound shots" in Colorado.....

I had to ask, what the hell is a sound shot? You know, when you think there is a buck in some bushes because you heard something, so you fire a shot into the brush to get him up and moving.

This is why you see those guys that have the stupid shell holder on their stock. Raise your hands, who has a Rambo cartridge holder on the butt stock? And, two or three on the sling? You never know how many sound shots it will take to get them moving?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 17, 2011, 09:04 AM:

"Sound shots" k-rist!!! Sounds like Minnesota.

quote:
Within the context of my understanding of the term, attempting to "stalk" within shotgun range of a gobbler is s fool's errand!

I've stayed somewhat quiet about this but I'm tellin you these turkeys are fuckin stupid, regardless of T-bags remarks about putting pressure on them, they're dumb.

Last fall we got in the boat about noon and cruised the fingers of a lake, when we would see a group of turkeys on the shore we would head right for them, they of course would get nervous and shoot up and over the bank...15+ feet to the top, we simply ran ashore, the guy in front would get out, load his shotgun and walk to the top of the bank, picked one out and fill his tag, that simple, it took 15 min. to fill 2 tags. I.ve already told of there behavior around rifles. I could tell more stories of dumb turkeys but I wont, I will say that I've seen some tough ones too, but more dumb ones.

Those two areas get a decent amount of hunting pressure, I.m not talking about the turkeys in my yard.

Although I believe they're dumb in general I do like to throw sticks at the damn things, now that's a challenge, archery season has always been a favorite of mine and quite honestly I've never felt as though I shot a "dumb" turkey with my bow, I had to work for all of them.

I don't know what any of this means except that archery season starts here in about a week and I haven't prepared yet.

Posted by GC (Member # 3718) on March 17, 2011, 09:15 AM:

JD,
Is there any public ground near there with a healthy population of those stupid turkeys where a feller could come out and hunt? I'm due some of those stupid turkeys... [Smile]

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on March 17, 2011, 11:26 AM:

Hey! I have a shellholder on my stocks! For practical purposes though, I hate carrying shells in my pockets or pack etc. Sling shell holders is where I draw the line though.

Mark

[ March 17, 2011, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 17, 2011, 12:15 PM:

I kinda was, AR. My birthday, early morning, many moons ago. got onto my deer stand about an hour before sunrise and as the sun lit the sky slightly, I realized that there were 40 or more turkeys in the cottonwood tops above me roosting. At light, the first one decides to go to ground. Damnest thing I ever saw, he'd start w=swinging fore and aft and get the branch he was on going faster than he was. Wings flapping, pretty soon he'd pretty much screw himself out of a roost and from there, it wasn't so much taking flight as a controlled crash and burn where he started beating those big wings frantically, baled off the branch, then appeared to suddenly realize he lacked the speed for take off. Wings beating their way through tree branches with debris flying everywhere. I have wondered ever since why we don't find piles of dead turkeys beneath large trees every morning and how he got from up thereto the ground without being hurt is beyond me.

The hardest shot to ever take on a turkey is flying across, straight overhead.

We were putting the sneak on a trio of toms courting their lady friends one day from the backside of a river levee when they spooked and flew right over us about thirty yards up. As easy as it would seem to be, it was dang near impossible not to overlead them. The way those wings were going, you'd have thought they were going 90 mph, but they were barely moving. LOL Very frustrating to miss something that big and that slow, that close. [Wink]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 18, 2011, 05:42 PM:

When do the turkey chicks hatch?

Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on March 18, 2011, 06:00 PM:

I get lucky sometimes.

http://www.thenpha.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=57252&#Post57252

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 18, 2011, 06:05 PM:

It takes about 28 days for the egg to hatch 49
It will take about 1 day for them all to hatch
but to say when will they hatch is tuff , Its all about the weather pal .
PA season starts really late in the year it not uncommon to find hens nested up on the opening day .hen nest on the ground and very seldom abandon there eggs even for danger ,
some years we get worm early, and some we don't, its the loner days and nice days that get the hens going I think it also the bugs and flowers that come with worm days that get it started , it going on right now . I was out today calling and there gobbling there heads off ./

now if I had to say when, I would say this year.
the last week in May woods will start to full with polts. 49 watch your dogwood trees when they flower up is time.

like most game, only the boss toms mate.
well most of the time anyway's and that the reason for the tale feathers much like antlers they show he is the boss. is you watch every strutting tom will turn away from the hens when in strut this is the time to drawl back or make you move if you have to .

[ March 18, 2011, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on March 18, 2011, 06:35 PM:

"two or three on the sling?"

That would be me, Elbee, and it's actually 8, four to each side of an outlaw sling. Now, if I was hunting in the dark and standing in my truck bed, I'd use a...., uhhh..., glove compartment or dashboard, but when you're a mile from the truck and on foot, you have to carry them somehow and somewhere, so why not put them where you can get to them easily. A handful of boolets in my pocket can be a bitch to get to, let along get to quickly, when you're sitting down and trying to stay somewhat still. I'm getting ol' enuff and fat enuff that getting stuff out of my pockets through two or three layers of cold weather clothing usually means there's gonna be a lot of rolling around and such. I got a couple different doubles this year and sadly, each took at a minimum, two shots, which left me down to half a tank in the gun. Call it a bad habit, but when the shooting stops, I quickly pull two off the sling and load my rifle to capacity again. I guess it's the Boy Scout in me - Be Prepared, and all that chit. [Wink]

I also had a shell holder on my .223 single shot until I sold it last week, for the same reason, and I have a shell holder on the sling for my Mossy. Am I ridiculous, or what?!? [Smile]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 18, 2011, 07:05 PM:

May huh?

Thank you George.

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 18, 2011, 07:33 PM:

I have opened them up and counted as many as 18 eggs inside. Ranging in size from the tip of your little finger and gradually increasing to the full turkey egg complete with shell.

One breeding can fertilize all the eggs, but the hen may take a gobbler more than once. She will lay about one egg a day until the entire clutch is in the nest. At that time she will begin to sit, only leaving the nest for water and a little food. I have read that at this time she gives off very little scent if any. Sounds logical to me because she would be pretty easy pickens otherwise.

If you do find a nest, leave it alone because if you scare her away a couple of times she will abandon the nest for good. Around here possums, skunks, and coons are really hard on the nests. I have found many nests that have been destroyed by these creatures. If she looses her first clutch due to weather or varmints, most times she will lay another.

Most nests I have found have something tall around. Such as a fallen tree limb or a large clump of buck brush. Some are right in the timber on a ridge and others are high on a ditch bank. Once you find a couple, it pretty much falls into place.

Also, I agree with what George had to say.

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 18, 2011, 08:59 PM:

Educating Turkey's

49,

if you lesson well you will here one popping back at me , I always thought this was a sound of aggression but i get it alot.
you will hear me pop back on my box call (( tomtalker box)) he just got pissed and walk off after getting 30 yards i say.
these bird got real close before I spooked them off. I think there were 4 to 5 different toms working.

[ March 19, 2011, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 19, 2011, 02:50 AM:

I tried the link George it said it was removed.

R Shaw interesting information...

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 19, 2011, 12:42 PM:

49 sorry i dont what happend but this is off 84 just inside the pa line

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzm15TUcP-s

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on March 19, 2011, 03:07 PM:

Just yard birds in KS. on our farm. It's been several years now that I haven't filled both spring tags with my bow. In this pic., my dead arrowed bird is just out of the pic. to the right, he knocked the one decoy over before I shot him. The open fields are what makes'em easy to pattern in KS., and once you have them patterned, they're easy to kill. Good eatin' too.

I beleive if I wanted to put a 17hmr into action, in the above pic. for instance, I could probably kill every tom out there before they'd leave the field. They're that dumb.

[ March 19, 2011, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 19, 2011, 06:08 PM:

Looks good George. I checked out some of your other videos too. I like the Joe Satriani song to the PA coyote calling video.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 21, 2011, 04:31 AM:

Was up this weekend and dem tuykees be strutting their jelly heads off already!
TR's pic is an accurate visual of exactly what I saw up around my AO...

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 21, 2011, 04:57 AM:

George, just watched your video.
That 'popping' sound as you call it is what a tom makes when he gets close.
Think of it as if he were a submarine sending out a 'ping' (audible locator beacon). If ya saw the movie "The HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER", then you know what a submarine 'ping' is...

ANYHOO, a tom 'pops' like that because he's in a position where he should SEE the hen (you) from where he's standing. Consider the 'popping' sound a tom's "locator cluck"...
So then, if that tom doesn't see a real live hen pretty quick, he'll start pirouetting around in a circle and begin 'popping' with his head held straight up to best try to SEE that hen!
If he does not see another turkey, then that tom is about to EXIT stage left. And he'll keep on 'popping' (loud clucking) as he leaves...

That sound means your hunt is very rapidly coming to an end, so if he's in range ya better shoot! If not, kiss him goodbye for now... [Smile]

I don't see that sound as being aggressive though?

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 21, 2011, 07:22 AM:

Yes I also feel the same way as you about what it means, but as for aggressive , when he or she don't see you just were you should be he or she will start to pop and it will aggressively get louder and faster then ofton leading into agressive cutting. Of course this is depending on just how hot he is to find a hen and have a little hanky panky .
I have a ton of turkey home video and on most of them I get them pretty up set just popping back at them .
lots of times on game land I know that is hunted hard all i do is this sound.

I think when they start popping back he saying i hear yea but were you at !

[ March 21, 2011, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on March 21, 2011, 08:34 AM:

What you call popping is what most call an "alarm putt". It is like a warning bark from a coyote. You are busted. Be careful on your box call not to sound like the alarm putt. There is a small difference between a "cut" and a "putt" A cut is a sound a female makes when she is looking to be bred. An alarm putt will send all the turkeys the wrong direction. In your video it sounded like you described. You had them coming in, one saw you and began with the alarm putt, and eventually led the others away.

Here is a little video of a tom I passed on, since he was a little small, probably a 2 or 3 year old bird. At the end he busts me and you can hear the alarm putt.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v722/tlbradford/?action=view¤t=Default.mp4

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 21, 2011, 09:37 AM:

I don't think its "alarm putt".more of a were are you sound .

in this video you will hear the sound I am talking about when they pop back at me and there is nothing alarmed in these to Jake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2qiJvQgN_M

also in this video you will here it again at the 8.25 mark of the video and were they run it into cutting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geiRFdPtMKw

but i have herd the alarm put your talking about

[ March 21, 2011, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]

Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on March 21, 2011, 07:00 PM:

Unfortunately I have heard the alarm putt many times over the years. It usually is a single high pitched sound sort of like a cluck but higher pitched. It means the jig is up and buh-bye.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0