The New Huntmastersbbs!: Need Some Serious Expert Advice please..

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Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on January 02, 2011, 04:40 PM:

ok... We all pretty much know Raven, my daughter. I got her a .380 for Christmas.

Here lies the problem. She is left eye dominant. When she was in preschool she was forced to write with her right hand. But sports and such, she is like me and can go right or left.

She is having some issues. When she went deer hunting I noticed that she just about leaned over the rifle to look into the scope with her left eye to pull the trigger. Well, now that I got her this pistol, she can't hit sh*t. She can't seem to find her comfort zone or even which eye to look through.

Any help for a righty that should have been a lefty would be greatly appreciated. She is getting frustrated.

Thanks [Smile]

Posted by Clank (Member # 3687) on January 02, 2011, 04:59 PM:

I learned this when i started shooting trap years ago.
Take her shooting glasses and put a sticker over the lens of one eye this will force the mind to focus out of the one eye that can see.It will take a little bit to get use to but eventuly she will be able to shoot with out the dominet eye problem.
i know what she is going threw i am right handed left eye dominet.

Posted by GC (Member # 3718) on January 02, 2011, 06:00 PM:

Two thoughts... you said she can do sports either handed, right? Can she not learn to shoot left handed?

And/or, she should shoot with both eyes open. She is currently closing one eye? Or giving it a real closed squint? Keep both eyes open and you've doubled your vision. That's also much better for situational awareness.

The tape or smudging of the shooting glasses is fine for the range, but doesn't work in the field hunting or in a defensive situation.

[ January 02, 2011, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: GC ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 02, 2011, 06:01 PM:

Same here. Shoot long guns left handed, left eye dom. Tried for years to shoot handguns right-handed. Never did worth spit. Shoot a bow right-handed, too, with the same abysmal results. Never realized the problem until a hunting buddy showed me how to determine eye dominance. Voila!!! I've never known anyone who actually retrained their weak eye to shoot as well as their strong one. Probably lots have, but I've just not seen it. I have a 9mm semiauto now for plinking and I've practiced and practiced drawing it from the right side, holding it right handed and developing the muscle memory to automatically place it to the left so I aim with my strong (left) eye and do fine. It's just a matter of training, practice, and doing what works best for you.

On an aside, I've always wondered if those fortunate to be all right or all left do better on motor function-related skills and vocations as those of us who are screwed up. Any top shelf shooters around here that are left handed and right eye dominant or vice-versa? I do fine now, but there used to be a time when I couln't hit the broad side of a barn if I was in it and the door was closed.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 02, 2011, 06:15 PM:

I am left eye dominant and I shoot a pistol right handed. It has never bothered my qualification scores, and the instructors gave up a long time ago trying to get me to shoot the way they were taught.

You didn't mention if she is righty or lefty? I would let her try shooting both ways, and find out what is best for her. There are no hard rules when it comes to shooting technique, except for proper sight alignment, trigger squeeze, and repetition.

Edit: Also make sure she is focusing on her front site. The target should be blurry, the rear sight should be blurry, and her front sight must be clear.

[ January 02, 2011, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by DEL GUE (Member # 1526) on January 02, 2011, 06:18 PM:

I am right-handed but left-eye dominant. I found this out when I was a young child. The result is that I learned to shoot guns and bows left-handed.

I suggest that you try teaching her to shoot left-handed and see how it goes. If her left eye is dominant that is how she ought to be shooting anyhow, in my most humble opinion.

[ January 02, 2011, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 02, 2011, 06:22 PM:

My nephew is left handed and right eye dominant, and had to learn to shoot with his left eye... he's a crack shot (like his Grandpa).

I'm with GC, I'd let her hold the pistol in her left hand.

Is it possible to get your hands on (rent maybe) a laser-gripped practice piece, so that she can learn to look at the target and not the gun?
In my mind pistols are more like shotguns, they are fired at the target not aimed at it.

Krusty

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 02, 2011, 06:42 PM:

At a early age I found that I was left handed but right eye dominet, as I got older I found out I was actually Ambidextrous.. My right side still being my strongest side but can do most anything with either hand and shoot left handed or right handed... Did alot of shingleing when I was young and being able to do it both ways was pretty handy when you got into a tight corner..
I also did some clay shooting in high school and after a couple of rounds if my shoulder got sore I could just switch to the other shoulder..
Best advice I can give is just practice doing it the way you feel most comfortable with and even practice doing the oppisite and just keep doing it till it all falls into place. The practice part dose'nt have to be done with just a gun you can do other things to make youre week side stronger and more controlable, throwing baseballs, batting, and pounding nails, eating, ect..Get youre eye to work with which hand you are useing at the time...
If you have seen any of the movies "Karate kid" this wouldbe a good example....
Good luck.....

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 02, 2011, 09:19 PM:

The first time I did IDPA I learned that shooting a handgun off handed is completely different than shooting a shotgun or rifle. I am right handed and right eye dominant. I taught myself to shoot shotgun and rifles lefthanded by closing my right eye. I am pretty good doing that.

However, when I hit a handgun stage where I had to shoot left handed only I missed the steel 6 times in a row. I held it left handed, closed my dominant eye, and shot to the left of the steel every time. I learned with a handgun, no matter what hand you are shooting, you still sight with your dominant eye.

You can test this by having her point at a spot on the wall and closing each eye and see if the target shifts.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 03, 2011, 12:35 AM:

Hard to believe we have so many TA ABNORMALS on this Board? Explains a lot.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 03, 2011, 06:47 AM:

I have always aimed a gun with one eye squinted, be it rifle, shotgun or hand gun. Yes even my scoped rifles are aimed in this manner. Because of the short barrel on pistol or revolver, it is tougher to keep a steady hold on the target. Practice is the key. Practice, practice practice.

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 03, 2011, 06:47 AM:

quote:
Edit: Also make sure she is focusing on her front site. The target should be blurry, the rear sight should be blurry, and her front sight must be clear.

I'm thinking the same a 4949. Not sure that it's a simple matter of changing hands. If you cleared the barrel and passed the gun to her what hand would she reach out with to grab the grip? Or if it was setting on the night stand next to her, with what hand would she pick it up. Work the hardest on correct stance and strong grip and start out repetively on a very close target(a couple of steps) and have her concentrate on front sight. You might even have to paint a dot on front and possible even tape up the v notch or slot on rear.

I assume the gun is for self defense and I think the reality is that she's not going to have a lot of time to aim in the traditional sense of front and rear sight alignment

Did you know that, according to a FBI study,the average hit rate of a police officer while under stress is only 16%.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 03, 2011, 11:13 AM:

That's probably why they need 19 round magazines, three of them. And, I have heard that they turn in the ammo for "fresh ones" every few months. I always wondered how they destroyed the expired ammo? Our tax dollars at work. LB

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 03, 2011, 11:41 AM:

What you might want to try, (come warmer weather) is mounting a set of sights on a pistol grip type water nozzel. Turn the water on & turn her loose. It shouldn't take to long for her to figure out what works for her.

In my own case, neither eye is dominate. I shoot long & hand guns left handed and my bows right handed.

And I respectfully disagree with the 'focus on the sight, blur the target', handgun shooting mantra. Probably good for high scores on a target range but in the real world, in a self defense situation, I believe that if I can point my finger at something, I can hit it with a handgun. I spend time practicing accordingly.

YMMV

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 03, 2011, 12:10 PM:

Koko I don't disagree with point shooting at close distances. My humble opinion, for what it's worth, would be to teach standard sighting technique first, and more specialized point shooting later.

When I was at the academy 22 years ago, they told us studies of police officers who won gun fights were conducted. The common theme among the majority of these "winners" was they remembered seeing their front sight before they fired. Hence the saying, "In a fight...Front sight." I believe this philosophy on handgun shooting to be a compromise between standard techniques and point shooting.

But whatever gets her on paper though...

Which .380 did you get her Crow Woman?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 03, 2011, 12:38 PM:

Some of this discussion is argument for the shotgun solution, if the purpose is home defense.

Good hunting. LB

edit: and if not; just whipping out a diminutive 380 can change the tone of almost any confrontation.

[ January 03, 2011, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 03, 2011, 12:49 PM:

Well I think you could make a contention that the front post is the finger.

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that she has to work on getting that post lined up with the vertical center line. After all that's where you have the most room for margin of error. Isn't it something like two shots in the chest and then two in the groin and then two in the face? If she can get on that line at least she'll hopefully covered one of the bases

Don't know much about left, right eye issues. And I'm not sure why if she holding that gun straight out 18" from her face with both hands, and both eyes open that there would be an issue. With long guns where anchoring on opposite shoulder and cheek I could see a potential big problem.

[ January 03, 2011, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 03, 2011, 02:13 PM:

quote:
Isn't it something like two shots in the chest and then two in the groin and then two in the face?

That's pretty much it Greenside. This is my son's target:

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 03, 2011, 02:52 PM:

Sheri - I would have her shooting at a silohuette target (similar to the one pictured) at no more than 5 yards to start with. Once you get past 15 yards with that gun, it is going to be pretty tough for a new shooter to hit a 12 inch circle without a rest.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 03, 2011, 03:18 PM:

In L.A. if you shot a minority twice in the chest and twice in the groin followed by two shots in the face, the ensuing outrage would most likely cause a Rodney King type riot, all those 62" flat-screens would find a new home and a lot of innocents would be hurt, maybe killed, but the good news is that no rioters and looters would be injured, or arrested.

El Bee

[ January 03, 2011, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 03, 2011, 06:31 PM:

I shoot all weapons with both eyes open, archery and firearms. It's just something I have always done.

Edit: I look down a scope and through a peep sight with my right eye though because I am right handed and right eye dominant.

[ January 03, 2011, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 04, 2011, 04:04 AM:

'.......no rioters or looters would be injured or arrested'.

That's very true, but the poor smuck who used a concealed handgun for self defence in the country that you live in would be taken away by the Centurians, never to be seen again.

Posted by GC (Member # 3718) on January 04, 2011, 08:22 AM:

quote:
Did you know that, according to a FBI study,the average hit rate of a police officer while under stress is only 16%.

Can you cite where you found this stat?

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on January 04, 2011, 08:40 AM:

Hey Everyone! This is Raven. I'm posting under Mom's cause I keep loosing my login info. [Frown]

Ok so first of all, Thank you all so much for the wonderful advice!!!

It's a kind of warm day today so I think I'm going to try the shooting at 5 yard intervals today and maybe even try shooting with the left hand as well. I've shot pistols before and always been able to over come my Left eye/Right hand problem. I've never had any real issue with hitting the target. But this new pistol, a .380 ACP Taurus, is giving me all kinds of fits! LOL I feel like a brand new shooter cause I can't hit anything! I just don't understand it.

My husband thinks that I'm physching myself out somehow since it's "My pistol" He was really the first one who ever recognized that I shoot LE/RH in the first place. Being an NCO in the Army he is always working with people to get them to shoot "the right way" So a couple of years ago we were visiting the farm and decided to blow through some ammo. I used a 12 guage and blew stuff away, cause well let's face it, I wasn't really aiming so much as just blowing stuff away. [Smile]

Then we got out my Poppop's old .22 revolver, that time I actually had to aim and the target and the bullet trajectery where much smaller. I didn't have any problems hitting the target, but Phil asked me how I was able to hit anything given the fact that I'm LE/RH. I told him that I didn't know that I've always shot that way.

So fast forward to this year, deer season. I used Phil's 270. I aimed just behind the front shoulder on a doe that was standing still and shot through the back legs. I was disappointed in my shot, but didn't put too much thought into it since I got my doe! First one, btw! Then a couple of weeks later I got my pistol. Now I suddenly can't hit anything! WTH?

I've been shooting more times than I can count ever since I was a little girl, 10 or 11? I've fired all kinds of guns! And without tooting my own horn, I've always been a good shot!?! So how come I can't do it this time? I'm so discouraged, I told Mom I'm thinking of selling the gun! [Frown]

I know it's not the pistol, my husband's best friend was visiting for the day and he fired 5 of 6 shots into the target from the same distance I was shooting from. I'm actually embarassed that I can't hit the target! I gotta get this figured out before Phil comes home for R&R cause I refuse to let him see his wife miss a target! LOL That would be more embarrassing than I could bear! Help!

Ok so I'm gonna go get some warm clothes on and give some of your suggestions a try. I'll post later and let you know how it all went. Take care boys! Thanks again!

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 04, 2011, 10:08 AM:

Raven, you could always get a laser sight for the gun. It may not be your first choice but it is an option.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 04, 2011, 10:28 AM:

I guess it's possible that you have a physical eye problem? Lazy eye, glaucoma, pituitary hypo whatever? It's only fifty bucks to have your vision checked.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 04, 2011, 01:59 PM:

Raven,
Try this-----After you line up the sights on your target, try pulling the trigger and continue to hold your sights on the target until bullet strikes the target. This will tell you whether you are flinching, or maybe pulling the muzzle downward because of hard trigger pull.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 04, 2011, 02:08 PM:

Good point Rich. Or she could be flinching downward due to the recoil of the smaller, lighter gun.

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on January 04, 2011, 03:36 PM:

I shot a round off with her pistol. First of all... I can't believe that my first instinct was to close my right eye, and shoot with my right hand... lol Anyway... The site is really small compared to my Dad's 22. I noticed as I was squeezing the trigger, it was so tight that the front end of the pistol was going upward. By the time it went off, I was over the top of the target. I grabbed my Dad's old revolver 22 and shot up the 9 rounds in it with no problem.

I will let her fill in her experience... lol You're gonna love this [Eek!]

Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on January 04, 2011, 07:26 PM:

Hey guys this is Raven again... So let me tell you about my afternoon with my pistol.

I tried several things outs. First I stood pretty close, like maybe 10 yards away and fired like normal LE/RH. I missed 6 shots on the target, but hit 4 of them on the pole that was holding up the target. HHmmm Ok. So then I switched hands, I fired with my right only and missed totally, I fired with my left hand only and low and behold I hit the damn target!

But only when I was standing in profile to the target and using only my left hand and my left eye! So ok, not the most normal stance. It felt so weird to fire that way, but it did work! I hit the target twice out of the next 10 shots.

Not great, but a vast improvement over what had been happening. Then I told mom that I felt like I couldn't hold the gun steady enough just using my left hand. She suggested using my right had to steady. Well that's when things got interesting!

I forgot to tuck my thumb down on my right hand and got bit by the slide! Damn that hurt! So I spent the next hour or so at the ER getting stitches on my thumb! *sigh* Believe it or not I do intend to try again tomorrow is the weather stays warm like it was today. I think I'm just going to keep practicing left handed and hopefully it will start to feel normal and my accuracy will improve. Mean while... When using a semi-auto, Don't Forget to Tuck You Thumb!!!! [Smile]

Also.. Mom fired a shot from my pistol today, before the whole ER incident obviously, And she brought up a point that I may have been failing to notice. My trigger is REALLY heavy and it takes quite a bit to pull it back, so much so that I could be jerking more than I think.

If all else fails, I'm getting me a laser for that thing! God forbid I'm in a situation where I need to be accurate and I'm not!

Thanks again for all your advice! Happy shooting boys!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 05, 2011, 10:39 AM:

Personally, I won't buy a gun without trying several examples because there can be subtle differences in how it works and the trigger. The clerks are real stupid about dry-firing as it applies to centerfires. Okay, don't snap rimfires and shotguns, but I have probably done that a gazillion times and never broke a firing pin yet.

Anyway, the place to find out about a heavy trigger pull is in the shop before you own it and can make a determination or evaluation, if you prefer.

One thing about that slide, you probably really learned your lesson, it shouldn't happen again. You can have an unpleasant experience as to where you place your offhand with a revolver, too. There can be a lot of hot gas and shaved lead that spurts out sideways between the barrel forcing cone and the front of the cylinder. This will sting you if you have your hand in the wrong place with the hammer cocked.

Generally, crowding the web of your hand under the hammer of an auto will give you a couple slices when the action cycles. You only do this once, as well. You score points for not giving up with this assembled multitude.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 05, 2011, 11:34 AM:

You might want to try dry firing the pistol. Point the pistol in a safe direction (after clearing it of course), and dry fire 50 times a day. You will get the hang of that trigger. Concentrate on squeezing the trigger without disturbing the orientation of the sights.

Good luck!

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