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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 09, 2010, 08:11 PM:
Yesterday, the Az congress finally passed constitutional carry. My wife just informed me via a radio talk show that Jan Brewer just signed constitutional carry into law. Anyone that can legally own a gun can now carry a gun concealed in Az. Az is the only state with a major population that has passed such a law. The only other two states that permit it are Alaska and Vermont.
I use ARs because in Az we can drive around with a rifle loaded with one in the chamber. Some of you will complain that it isn't safe but I've done if for years without a hitch(or AD). While on ****** Re$ervations, I don't carry ARs because they won't let you us an AR like it should be. They are a PIA when you have to load them before every stand.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on April 09, 2010, 08:33 PM:
Hot chambers...spooky...just curious, not being judgemental, but what's the point of driving around with one in the chamber?
P.S. Congrats on the new law!!! I am jealous. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ April 09, 2010, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 10, 2010, 03:54 AM:
AZ, so basically the difference is you don't have to get a permit prior to concealed carry as you had to in the past? Am I reading this correctly?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 10, 2010, 05:21 AM:
49er; That's the way that I'm hearing it and I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand it's a major bitch slap to the anti gun forces of evil. On the other hand, the course to carry was not all that hard and provided some good information on the legal use of deadly force.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 10, 2010, 05:48 AM:
Congrats!! Someone went with the constitution! The constitution said nothing about having to take a class. It says we have the right to keep and bear arms. IMO, I should be able to have full auto weapons and nuclear warheads. Since Thomas Jefferson said weapons in the hands of the people were neccessary to protect from a tyranical government. Well, we now have a tyranny and they have them, why the fuck cant I? In the day that our founding fathers wrote that, the government had muskets and we had the same, so we should have the same now if we choose.
I believe that AZ didnt do something fantastic, they just did the right thing. I hope all states eventually get back to basics. 49, if your gettin ready to come off with the whole LEO safety bullshit, just remmeber the folks that willl shoot your ass already have them and will shoot you anyway. The only people the restrictive laws keep from carrying are law abiding citizens. I dont know how you feel, being from the east coast, and the salt air seems to fuck up a lot of folks brains, but that is the truth.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 10, 2010, 05:49 AM:
Koko that's was wondering about.
Though I agree any pro gun legislation is a step in the right direction.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 10, 2010, 05:53 AM:
One thing concerns me. On the Brady rankings, MO was ranked right at the bottom, a good thing. Im afraid this may vault Az below us. We gotta do something to top yall. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 10, 2010, 05:53 AM:
quote:
I believe that AZ didnt do something fantastic, they just did the right thing. I hope all states eventually get back to basics. 49, if your gettin ready to come off with the whole LEO safety bullshit, just remmeber the folks that willl shoot your ass already have them and will shoot you anyway. The only people the restrictive laws keep from carrying are law abiding citizens. I dont know how you feel, being from the east coast, and the salt air seems to fuck up a lot of folks brains, but that is the truth.
No argument from me Andy.
God, guns, and guts keep America free.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 10, 2010, 05:55 AM:
Thats nice to know 49. I know too many cops that feel different. Dont think laws are restritive enough. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 10, 2010, 05:58 AM:
Nahhh.....we already have laws, but as you said the bad guys get all the guns they want anyway.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 10, 2010, 06:23 AM:
I think most of it goes back to that power thing with most cops. They have the we got guns and you dont need them attitude. Im sure you know some.
Not all mind you, I know plenty, especially around here that have the same attitude we have. I asked our sheriff one time what would happen if the Obama gun grab did come to pass. He said him and his boys would be on our side. He wasnt taking a single gun and they would be fighting along side us.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 10, 2010, 06:33 AM:
Hopefully by the Grace of God it will never come to that.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 10, 2010, 06:42 AM:
Wyoming is talking about passing a similar law. I have a CCP so it doesn't matter either way to me. I do have strong opinions on the simple common sense of not carrying a rifle in a vehicle with a chambered round. But thats just a personal opinion I guess. I won't allow it in my vehicle and won't ride with someone who does. Had a friend get killed exactly because of that.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on April 10, 2010, 06:55 AM:
Im guilty of carrying with one in the tube between stands around here. Its legal. I do crack the bolt open so there is no way it can fire.
I probably shouldnt, guess its mostly laziness. Sound isnt a factor. I carry one on my hip chambered all day, every day, concealed too. And it dont have a safety.
Posted by Dusty Hunter (Member # 1031) on April 10, 2010, 07:23 AM:
Like Andy, I carry concealed most of the time with a permit. I'm happy that this new law went through. However, the good thing about having a permit is that you can carry in other states also. When I travel to Ohio to visit relatives, I'm armed all the way except in Illinois.
I don't keep a rifle round chambered while in my truck. I learned a lesson from my dad back in the 60s. He was always safe with his rifles but one week-end he took a friend deer hunting. This friend got back in the vehicle with a loaded rifle and blew a hole through the top of the truck. When they got back home their ears were ringing and I got to look through a 30 caliber hole in the roof of the truck.
[ April 10, 2010, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Dusty Hunter ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 10, 2010, 09:23 AM:
I think I jumped the gun. I didn't hear the news report my wife did. After reading this morning’s paper, it looks like Gov Brewer hasn't signed it into law yet. My wife probably just misinterpreted the news report.
There are four advantages with having a CCW permit in Az. Like Koko said, the class does give some useful knowledge about when it is and isn't legal to use deadly force. Also, my instructor said to immediately lawyer up. This knowledge could be a career or even a life saver. Secondly, if you have a CCW, you don't go thru the Brady background check. Third, like Dusty Hunter said, you can use the CCW in states with reprocity agreements. Fourth it does allow for you to go into restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises if they don't post otherwise.
With this law, you can make the choice to get the permit and get the above advantages, or you can simply use the law as is.
Somewhere I read where Leonard stated his arguments against ARs, and I agree with his opinion. ARs are a PIA if you have to chamber at the beginning of a stand and empty at the end. I don't like the mechanical sound that it produces going into battery. I was once on a stand and witnessed my fellow hunter experience a fail to fire because he slowly closed the bolt and hit the forward assist. The gun didn’t go into full battery. The coyote came in, he shot , the gun just made that dreadful click sound which had Mr. Coyote running away instantly.
I have a camper shell on my truck with side windows. The guns are stored pointing rearward. If an AD occurs the bullet will first hit the ice chest, probably a 5 gallon water jug full of H20, absolutely will a hit 3/8" thick sheet of Poly Carbonate, and then the two sheet metal skins of the tailgate. 3/8" thick poly carbonate stops 9mm starfire rounds at 25 yds. I've tested this product. At .750” it is considered bullet proof. I only keep the gun loaded like this on the backroads. I load in the morning and unload when done in the evening. I keep my safety on until I acquire a target; thus, I don’t have to worry about leaving the safety off after returning from a stand. If Mr. Coyote is within 40 yards, they can hear my safety go click if the caller isn’t blowing. My partner is informed to only approach the camper from the side windows. Interestingly, the Ar is the problem. I can easily unload and reload my Benelli SBE II. If I’m say in Utah or an Injun Re$ervation where you cannot have a loaded rifle in a car or truck, I prefer a bolt gun.
Edit note to Dan Carey: I had to purposely misspell injun or I only get ******.
[ April 10, 2010, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 10, 2010, 09:48 AM:
Maybe so, on the loaded round in an AR, but I am 100% against such a policy. And, I know first hand what a pain in the ass it is to unload and rechamber between stands, but I don't complain because it's basic and safe, and no other argument holds water.
Now, on the concealed carry law. I don't know what to think about it, as reported? My guess is it either is or should be a "shall issue" law? I'm having a hard time believing AZ allows everybody concealed carry without a permit?
Of course, I have to admit that one of the reasons for me wanting to move to AZ is because I will never be issued a CCW in The People's Republik of Kalifornia. That and the fact that this state is way too liberal for my tastes.
Good hunting. LB
edit: by the way, I put long guns facing forward in the camper because it seems to me that accidental discharges mainly occur when somebody is standing behind the truck and are reaching for a "weapon" pointed directly at their own chest. When you are out of the truck, there is nobody in the cab to get kilt, right? Anyway, if I leave a round half chambered, the bolt is up.
[ April 10, 2010, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 10, 2010, 12:25 PM:
Well maybe I wrote too soon. I'll bet the Governor is thinking twice now that this has happened:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/09/20100409el-mirage-gunfire-walmart-abrk.html
What a stupid bozo.
As far as keeping my ARs hot, the only problem is educating my hunting partner to not walk around the back of the truck until my gun is out. During stand setup it really isn't a problem. Like I said, my camper has side windows that open up. We pull over to set up a stand and each hunter is getting his equipment out from their own side window. The first thing I do is get my gun out and set it on the ground pointing away from the truck on a small Harris bipod. I then finish getting my stool and monopod out, pickup my rifle and sling it. I'm ready to go just as quickly as my partner.
The only time I have trouble is when my partner wants a drink or something out of the ice chest. This is when I have to stop them and get the rifle out first.
There are situations where I prefer to take a bolt gun, and I have one that I call my goto gun. I call it that because it is my most consistently accurate rifle.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 10, 2010, 03:27 PM:
That sonofabitch should go to fricking jail! No, state prison! And, he should lose his firearms privileges!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 10, 2010, 09:32 PM:
On transporting AR's hot, I won't do it. It's illegal here but even out in the pasture, mine are empty chamber.
Just turn the dang radio up a little if the sound bothers you. The critters already heard your truck pull up so I just hit the bolt catch button and go.
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