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Author
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Topic: Sick coyotes? What do you think....
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 13, 2010 03:35 PM
Interested in hearing of experiences some of you might have had with sick and/or poisoned coyotes.
One of my landowners contacted me this morning to advise me that he happened upon two coyotes in the ditch bordering his property where I hunt yesterday morning which were behaving strangely.
Both were together and the tracks in the snow indicated that they'd been there for an hour or more. They both were staggering about and, when he approached them, the larger of the two (presumably a male) made an effort to move toward him, then staggered backwards and fell over. It then rose to its feet and tried to run away but, by his description, kept staggering off to one side, falling over and flopping around trying to rise again. He said that in the time he got to his trunk to get out a rifle, the coyote was 70-80 yards into the field and he shot it. He then approached the second coyote, still in the grass along the road ditch just a few yards away from him, in pretty much the same condition and shot it with his sidearm where it lay.
I asked him how they acted and whether they acknowledged him and he said they pretty much did, making eye contact almost immediately when he exited his vehicle. I asked him if they acknowledged one another and he said that they didn't seem to want to leave one another's side and didn't until the larger of the two got his legs and staggered/ ran off.
I asked him how they looked and he said that they appeared perfectly healthy and well fed, and aside from looking drunk as hell, there was nothing about their appearance that caused him any concern.
My thoughts are that if this is the furious stage of rabies, (and BTW, we have killed several skunks in the middle of the day this season), it would be unusual that they would be together like this, thinking that at some time during the progression of the disease, one would have abandoned the other. Furthermore, no other sick animals have been noted in this area.
Instead, I'm inclined to think that they were poisoned while feeding on the same source, either primarily by someone who spiked a carcass or by something like antifreeze, or secondarily by ingesting poisoned rats. There are several farms in the area with grain storage bins where rat poison could be found, but the closest house to where these were first found has a collie that runs loose so I would seriously doubt that they're using toxicants.
In any event, we advised the game warden and I'm going up there tomorrow to work that area over.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted January 13, 2010 04:11 PM
Lance,
To me, canine distemper stands out as a strong probability.
I once received a call on a raccoon, unwilling to get out of a small creek in a backyard, who had similar sounding symptoms, lethargy, cirling, and a drunken or dizzy attitude.
It never made any aggressive moves, nor did it make any attempt to flee.
I sent it to the state for testing, and canine distemper was found, confirming the biologist's suspicions (based on my description of it's behavior).
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ridge Runner
Being a very careful person, I have always bagged my own groceries
Member # 3477
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posted January 13, 2010 04:11 PM
if rabies got to that stage, the foaming of the mouth would be very noticable wouldn't it?
We have coons and foxes here on occassion showing the same simptoms, I was always told it was from worms, never had a chance to prove it though. the rat poison that shows those simptoms normaly is accompanied by bleeding from the eye's and ears and they would have to eat alot of them to get in that shape, could it be they were a victim of the m-44's (cianide capsules)? they're used by state trappers here to cull the coyote population.
RR
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Born To Hunt, Forced To Work
Posts: 31 | From: WV | Registered: Aug 2009
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted January 13, 2010 04:52 PM
Definately not cyanide. It acts way faster than that. Sounds like poison and there are many options.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted January 13, 2010 05:12 PM
I think they found a jug of Lance's sipping juice. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5621 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 13, 2010 05:48 PM
K,
Distemper was one thought of mine, but again, I would think that if this was a case of any type of disease, that the two would have wandered off on their own different ways rather than being together as they were. I inquired as to whether they appeared to be in control of their faculties, or just having trouble with motor functions, but he said he really couldn't tell. Just stands to reason that this might have been a mated pair that encountered the same toxic food source at the same time, and ate approximately the same amount thus accounting for the nearly identical presentation of signs and symptoms. Kinda sad. I'd seen a pair in this section several times over the past month, never within range, and had hoped to get a shot at them over a call.
(Also, no cyanide or M-44's in Kansas anywhere to my knowledge. At last, none that are legal, and none of the people around that area sem to me to be the type that would wholesale poison critters of any kind aside from rodents.)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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32below
Knows what it's all about
Member # 2075
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posted January 13, 2010 05:57 PM
Heard that some folks OD a chronic on a certain med then add them to the dead pile. Coyotes feeding on the carcass acted just like you describe. Simple matter to drive by the dead pile come morning and dispatch the survivors. Bet there is a spiked carcass somewhere close by especially where there were two in the same condition.
Posts: 100 | From: SW Kansas | Registered: Nov 2007
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted January 13, 2010 08:34 PM
Lance,
Since distemper is spread through direct contact, it could be every bit as likely that they came in contact with this pathogenic source, together, as that they were poisoned at the same time.
And since distemper is often survivable, and does not completely incapacitate an animal or it's thought processes, there's no reason that the instinct to unite as a pair would necessarily be overridden, by it, until the late stages.
And since only one was unable to move, and they had been undisturbed for some time, it's also likely that they were about to part company, and would have done so if a pair of bullets hadn't ended their lives?
But... we could guess, 'til the cows come home, and that's why I had the raccoon I dealt with tested.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 14, 2010 04:41 AM
Just as likely, Krusty, as our coon population is extremely high right now and the past three years, distemper has played the role of the leveling fdactor in them which could be where they were exposed. You just don't often see coyotes around here sick like that aside from the mange infestation. Thanks.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 14, 2010 02:20 PM
Got a close up look at the coyote that remained near the road this morning. Aside from being DRT, she appeared to be a "healthy" coyote with no evidence of trauma or injury aside from the GSW to her head. No mange, fully furred, healthy looking, clear eyed with no mattering. I'm still thinking poison.
[ January 14, 2010, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 14, 2010 03:00 PM
Me too. Possibly insecticide, which is nerve gas.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted January 14, 2010 04:50 PM
My guess, and you didn't hear this from me.....
There is a fly poison called "Golden Maladrin" that gets mis-used in places to eliminate coons and other varmints. Canids will eat it and it is damn lethal. I accidently killed two dogs with it once and it was scattered lightly in a manure pile for flies. I had a lady that had a bowl of it out for flies last summer that called for a rabid raccoon. I got there to see the coon staggering around the yard, but noticed the bowl on the porch. I knew that one right away. It is fairly slow acting and the results are similar to what was described. I have heard of it being improperly used (especially for coons) in areas where they have large populations causing damage.
[ January 14, 2010, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Brad Norman
Okie Dokie
Member # 234
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posted January 14, 2010 05:20 PM
The ol' "Golden Maladrin". That brings back some memories. I think I still carry some scars from it. I do believe you hit the nail on the head.
Posts: 298 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted January 14, 2010 06:39 PM
We had a saying when I was developing climbing gear, that I think applies here... "One good test, is worth a thousand theories!" ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted January 15, 2010 05:37 AM
I want some of what Brads having!
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 15, 2010 05:52 PM
UPDATE: Spoke briefly with the landowner and shared with him our collective consensus and he said he was all but certain that his relative up the road about a half-mile uses rat poison around his hog sheds. Very likely the point source for these two. Too bad as the one I looked at was a beautiful coyote. Pale as they get around here.
[ January 15, 2010, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 15, 2010 06:07 PM
Lance,
You might pop open a belly on that coyote and see what it had eaten. They might have just got into a pile of corn that had been spilled at harvest, then ferminted until they found it.
Maybe that's why they were so close? He'd gotten her drunk and was hoping to get a little when your neighbor showed up?
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 15, 2010 06:24 PM
In that case, I'm gonna have to have a word with the guy for cock blocking my coyotes. I mean, WTF! I've worked hard the last couple years managing (and missing) coyotes to bring their numbers along to what is now a respectable level, and then this kinda crap happens!
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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