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Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on December 01, 2009, 01:21 AM:
I posted this over on Rich's board and I wanted to post this to you as well. You and Rich have meant alot to me over the years. So I wanted you to check this out and let me know what your thoughts on it were too. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
It took quite a long time and a lot of hard work but we have finally opened our doors. www.huntapf.org
Sheri Baity
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 01, 2009, 06:43 AM:
Nice looking site.
Question: Why do we need to promote our sport of coyote hunting??? Don't we have enough coyote hunters already...
Putting coyotes in a throphy class like other animals sounds good but now they willbe hunted for there heads rather than the fur..Such a waste of a resource...
If any promoteing shouldbe done it should be to promote the use and sale of fur.. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on December 01, 2009, 06:56 AM:
I see you just asked Leonard, but since it’s on here for all of us to see, I just can’t help give an opinion. I will try to sugarcoat it though. WHAT A FREAKING TERRIBLE IDEA! LOL I know you’re Sheri Baity and all, and you probably got Rich’s sign-off and probably others whom I respect, so I feel sort of bad giving my opinion, but sheesh!!
See this thread for some more opinions: garbage board! segues to NPHAdiscussion
Now, you have just added a damn trophy points system to a nasty ole coyote???? Good Lord! One of the saving graces against my argument that sooner than later this will be a money game just got thrown out.
Just one step closer to making this “sport” (dang I hate when people call it that) unattainable to the regular folk who hunt private ground. (Like deer hunting has become.)
Most of the supporters of this crap (associations and growing popularity, etc.) are the ones in it for the money or the oblivious who only hunt public ground. My opinion.
(edit to fix the link)
[ December 01, 2009, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Joel Hughes ]
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on December 01, 2009, 07:46 AM:
I gotta admit, reading that site made me feel a bit ill...
Not that I'm surprised that something of this nature wasn't on the way. I always figured somebody would see the possible dollar signs and figure a way to "score" a coyote.
Whats down the road to promote? Seasons, bag limits, controlled hunts, charge for tags, have a record book, blah, blah, blah, bullshit.
[ December 01, 2009, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on December 01, 2009, 09:43 AM:
First Off, TA, Joel and Lonny Thank You for you comments. Yes, I did post this to Leonard but also to all of you here. I wanted to go to two boards that I hold a lot of respect to all of the different opinions
Let me try to answer a few questions before I head back out for a doe this afternoon.
TA: This site isn't just for coyotes, it is also for both type of fox as well. Down the road we would like to incorporate other species. It was built on an idea that there are trophy bear, deer and such out there but no one had touched on the idea of predators. Hence the idea from Kris Hoard. Also, one thing we want and hope to do is not just focus on the predator hunters, we want to find a way to bring together and work with the trappers as well. We in no way shape or form want this to be a "head" thing! You have my word on this ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Joel: Opinion understandable and accepted Number one, we are NOT a forum... nor will ever be ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Deer hunting has become a nightmare! Just for the record I hunt private AND public land. We are going to be or should I say already are working with biologist around the country so far who will be asking for hair, scat or various other samples for their research if the hunter would like to send. That information will be valuable, IMHO along the way. Like I said, I hear your frustration and appreciate your opionion
Lonny: I'm sorry to hear it made you feel ill about the idea. You have every right to feel how you want to. I hope that down the road you might be able to see that we are not the enemy ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
ok... gonna hunt until dark thirty. Any more questions I'll get to them when I get home. If I haven't answered any of you in particular, give me a shout, I can be a blonde some days
Again... so far, Thank You for your opinions.
Sheri Baity
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on December 01, 2009, 10:25 AM:
I'm sorry but I just don't understand the direction this "sport" is headed. Bad idea but you'll have plenty of high fivers with something to promote (read sell) that will clamor all over this thing.
It's a sad time we live in, everyones an expert and now they will have a "class" trophy to prove it.
Do we have to wait till they are "mature" before we kill em now?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2009, 10:43 AM:
quote:
Do we have to wait till they are "mature" before we kill em now?
I don't care who you are, that's funny!
Sheri, I just looked at the site. (just got up, if you can believe that) Thanks for posting and thank you for asking my opinion. As you know, I usually have one and love to be asked for it!
Let me see? I am not sick, didn't even throw up a little in my mouth? I have not waited a long time for such an org. to appear, either. The page looks good, but as I said, I didn't look around.
Actually, I don't have a great deal of interest in the objectives but I'm not going to insult your efforts, either.
Hey, how has that little surgical procedure worked out? I hope that you are doing well? Don't worry that these guys are being mean to you, they don't mean anything personal, and I wouldn't let them attack ya anyway, they would haft to go through me first!
Good hunting. LB
[ December 01, 2009, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 01, 2009, 10:44 AM:
well i suppose they could have a big dog throphy and a biggest little dog throphy and the guys that get the white tipped coyotes should be included as well.. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2009, 10:47 AM:
Maybe they could call that "The Biggest Pup" trophy, TA. That's kinda funny, too.
Come on guys, she's a girl!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 01, 2009, 01:13 PM:
Since you are awake Leonard have you posted what youre favorite E-caller is in the E-Caller poll on P.M.?? So far its F-P leading with two votes for Minaska. None of the WT guys have chimmed in yet but maybe they are to busy hunting..
I also noticed on the boards that F-P sure has alot of problems with their calls, but hey they got good customer service.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2009, 01:40 PM:
I have been banned on PM since late 2001, Tim. I hardly EVER look at that board and can't participate in a poll, of course. I wouldn't trust the results, but it's a forgone conclusion which caller will win, don't you think? Like, who gives a shit, anyway?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on December 01, 2009, 02:06 PM:
Sheri, this is nothing personal towards you and your efforts, it's just a familiar topic of late.
In my own defense, I have decided to not play the deer lease game anymore. I've spent alot of money (for me) and this year lost one place to some big spenders and the place adjoining them will be theirs next year. It's the same everywhere I know.
I consoled myself in all the ranches that I hunt coyotes for free. Looking into the future, it's not hard to see where we're all heading.
Not picking on you I promise but this is a sore subject right now.
[ December 01, 2009, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on December 01, 2009, 03:01 PM:
We public land hunters don't really get as much of a break as you might think, either.
The biggest problem/worst part of hunting public land, is that it IS public. Anyone and everyone is free to hunt anywhere and everywhere you do.
With as many callers as there are now, competition and over hunting are the single biggest issue/obstacle to having good days anymore. It's still possible, but getting harder all the time. It won't be very long until it really isn't possible anymore. Even now, in my area of operations, being able to wait until fur is prime, then hunt a good public land area before it gets pounded to death, is pretty much impossible. By Oct., most of the areas with good coyote numbers have been called to death already.
I'd just as soon see coyote hunting become less popular with fewer and fewer guys doing it every year. I wouldn't mind seeing contest hunts go away either. But, it ain't gonna go the way I'd like it to. Can't stop progress, and all that...
I really should NOT complain though. For one, I've contributed in some small way to my own demise by making a few videos and what not. Second, I may have to compete with the crowds, but at least I still have that option. If I had to depend on private ground to hunt, I wouldn't be hunting at all.
- DAA
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on December 01, 2009, 03:13 PM:
quote:
we want and hope to do is not just focus on the predator hunters, we want to find a way to bring together and work with the trappers as well.
Why would they be interested? You will be taking a furbearer and placing them into a trophy class animal. As far as getting biologists involved....that one makes me nervous. Lets see here, biologists on some government payroll determining quotas and seasons. Of course, they have done such a good job with this whole global warming deal lol. Other than that, Joel and Tom have said everything else I wanted to say.
Maintain
Posted by Lungbuster (Member # 630) on December 01, 2009, 03:19 PM:
Looks like a well put together site Sheri, but like the common theme above, I too would like to see less predator hunters.....
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on December 01, 2009, 03:21 PM:
As promised it is dark thirty and I'm home without a doe. eh... plenty of time yet. But I did get an awesome 8 point yesterday! Chip steaks and bologna are on the way
Glad to hear you are getting your beauty sleep Leonard, not that you need it! So glad you chimed in and Thank You very much! I got the one year cancer free check up a few monthes back... yay!!! Once in a blue moon I still get a phantom itch, but doc says that is normal and could take up to another year to be done with them and the tingles and creepy crawly feelings. The left side is a deeper color than the other side so I have to adjust my make-up when I wear it. Life if good! I will gladly put up with all of the abnormal stuff just to be cancer free
No Tommy... you don't have to wait until they are mature... too funny! I know this is not personal so don't sweat it... I appreciate the feedback. We don't have nearly the "deer lease game" as you all do out there. But they are slowly trickling in. I'm fortunate though that Gary has a dairy farm with 250 acres to play on. Also there is still land around that is not posted as well. I am also fortunate that farmers from around the county are calling me to come hunt their coyotes. Now as far as how they treat others that might approach them, I don't know. Sorry it's been a sore subject for you
TA... I will be sure to bring these trophy possibilities to the next board meeting You might be on to something... of what I'm not quite sure of... but definately something
I do want to say though, that if there are any questions that you want to ask privately, feel free to go on the page and click on the "contact" tab. That will give you Kris's email addie and you are more than welcome to address him personally.
ok... off to get supper. Thanks everyone... I'll check back later.
Sheri Baity
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on December 01, 2009, 03:39 PM:
3 chimed in before I finished posting... lol
Very true DAA. I've been finding on some of these grounds I hunt coyotes, mine included, that guys have been going in there and hanging up deer carcasses and a few piano hooks. Once they hear that there are coyotes in the woods someone gets their mind set that they are going to have it whether the fur is prime or the land belongs to someone else... they don't care.
Cross J... we've talked with quite a few trappers while getting this going. We hear from all of them about the contest hunts and how they can not be included. Then you hear the stories of the "monster" coyote that they caught in their traps and such. This is an opportunity for them to finally have a place to be included for their hard work in dealing with predators as well. We are not going to go by weight, that can be easily fixed. When a member has a coyote to submit, on the form will be a place put two in field measurements. These will not count towards the skull status, but it will give everyone, a guide to what they will come close to compared to the largest on record. Coyote, fox and bobcat will be measured from the tip of the nose to the tip of the tale bone and then the girth measurement. IMHO I think it will be awesome to be able to punch up any county or state and see the sizes of the animals that have been taken. As far as biologists goes, there is already government payroll out there. So if a hunter wants to or doesn't want to participate in that area is completely up to them. The more data collected on certain things the more stuff to debate over
Thank You Lungbuster... and some days... me too
Posted by J_hun (Member # 872) on December 01, 2009, 04:11 PM:
Crow Woman , you got more guts then me to ask a question like that. First the NPHA and now the APA. Personally I could care less about either one. Get real, we have enough sites promoting calling. This is getting way out of line. Whatever happen to just going out and calling a coyote the old conventional way. A guy doesn't need all that crap that is coming out. Now I vented for another year.
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on December 01, 2009, 04:45 PM:
Must be a very unique sample of trappers. Most trappers that I know (myself included) have a much greater interest in the value of an individual animal and what it can return for them, as apposed to having a name in a record book somewhere. Most trappers (as well as predator hunters I respect) place value on numbers. In other words, the ability to catch/kill 50 to 100 coyotes a season is a greater measure of success than being lucky enough to kill one coyote with an abnormally large head.
Maintain
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on December 01, 2009, 04:59 PM:
Just took all the internet coyote callers and made them instantly into "trophy hunters".
Curious, just how has it been determined what size if a "trophy"? And why not break down all the sub-species of coyotes into their own catagory! After all, you did with fox! Gosh, just a guess, but I'll bet most of the "trophy" sized coyotes end up comig from east of the big river!
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on December 01, 2009, 05:25 PM:
J... that's cool. You are entitled to your opinions.
CrossJ... all trappers that I know have a greater interest in the value of what it can return for them as well. But there is that occasional animal that wows them. I'm sure you've come across one or two for as much as you trap in your times I as just a normal coyote hunter will never be able to put up the numbers that you trappers do! But for that one or two select animals that wows them, there is a place for them
TRnCO... as the skulls come in to be scored, the data base will grow. And each coyote, fox or bobcat will be listed accordingly. I have seen a few nice ones that were west of the big river also And don't worry, the internet coyote callers are going to have to come up with the proof rather than a photo shopped picture
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on December 01, 2009, 06:49 PM:
I had a long "what if" post wrote up about wolf/coyote crosses, biologists and antis but out of respect, I'll just say think hard about your database and kill em while you can!
Anyone reccomend a good bass boat?
Tell me about golf.
Na, I'm a hunter, it's who I am.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2009, 07:50 PM:
Well, you're not a speller, either.
I hope Dan Carey doesn't see how you spelled "recommend"!He'd freak.
Good hunting. LB
PS good point about coydogs and wolf hybreds
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on December 01, 2009, 08:01 PM:
Did you mean to spell "hybrids?"
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 01, 2009, 08:16 PM:
No, Danny. That's perfectly acceptable alternative spelling in The Land of the Fruits and the Nuts. LB
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on December 01, 2009, 09:03 PM:
Gack.
Trying to be nice here but I have no stomach for more of this stuff. Leave it for the deer hunters.
Be very suspicious of anyone who would call himself a trapper and would support such an effort. I haven't trapped for decades but I still remember the numbers that mattered.
Not a good idea. There are reasons why things like golf were invented. They are called "games" for a reason.
Tom264, you hit it pretty good - "Na, I'm a hunter, it's who I am." That runs way deeper than this score-keeping stuff.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 02, 2009, 08:21 AM:
I'm not taking sides but, I have come to believe that we need a big tent. While I feel a camaraderie with trappers and bird hunters, big game hunters, etc., some guys don't like contests and make no secret of it. I learned everything I know about hunting predators while participating in contests and I feel that I know a couple of things that have been overlooked by the noncompetitive recreationalist; maybe even the fur hunter?
So, if somebody wants to measure dicks and it makes them happy, I am unconcerned.
.....Oops, I meant skulls. Sorry!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on December 02, 2009, 02:29 PM:
Been lots of new things showing up in the "predator hunting world" lately. I don't think this one will be around long. Just ignore it and it will go away. Since the vast majority of coyote hunters already won't skin one, I think fewer yet will go to the trouble of cleaning skulls. A few will, but the money for measuring skulls will dry up fast and so to will the "association".
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on December 02, 2009, 03:18 PM:
I can see the need for the "big tent" idea and would likely support it if looked like a reputable organization with goals other than turning a profit.
What we seem to be getting are organizations asking $25-$35 to join and in return they send you a "Predator Hunters Do It In The Bush" bumper sticker or a window decal with a snarling critter of some sort and access to the "Members Only Record Book Room" All promise camraderie, protection, and promotion($$$). Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd sooner dump my dollars into half a tank of gas at this point.
It seems to me like everybody is trying to get a piece of the pie before it is gone. I don't know the first thing about starting a national coyote club, but it seems starting out with a quality magazine would gather members quicker than a website? But, I'm sure it would take some deep pockets to do that.
I'm a member of the VHA and RMEF mainly because they crank out a fairly decent magazine that only comes 4 times per year.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 02, 2009, 03:56 PM:
quote:
Been lots of new things showing up in the "predator hunting world" lately. I don't think this one will be around long. Just ignore it and it will go away. Since the vast majority of coyote hunters already won't skin one, I think fewer yet will go to the trouble of cleaning skulls.
I think youre right Cal.. I watched a few short vidio's the other day and the guys were affraid to even pick the coyote up after it was killed.LOL
Just incase it does get its feet off the ground i'll keep a few knives sharpened for custom skull cleaning, 150.00 per skull is pretty reasonalble don't you think...
[ December 02, 2009, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on December 02, 2009, 04:27 PM:
Might be worth something one of these days?
- DAA
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on December 02, 2009, 05:13 PM:
The price of beatles just went up.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on December 02, 2009, 05:46 PM:
Hey Dave, If ya count from closest to furtherest down the back row, it looks like #10 and #12 might make record books!
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on December 02, 2009, 06:33 PM:
Dave - 10 point deduction for not skinning the lower lip!!!!
Said in complete jest!
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 02, 2009, 07:31 PM:
Cleaning a coyote skull is like skinning a badger; something that you do once.
Better, I think, to just use an ageing chart for teeth.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2009, 10:48 AM:
Boy, if that ain't the truth! Skinning a badger is quite a chore.
Good hunting. LB
BTW, I don't see any eyes? What's with that?
[ December 03, 2009, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on December 03, 2009, 11:50 AM:
My beetle guy (who charges me nothing), requests that I send them without eyes, tongues or brains. So eyes and tongues come out while skinning. Brains get pressure washed out later.
Kind of funny, a couple weeks ago we went hunting in Tim's wifes Tacoma. I lined up ten eyeballs on the bedrail of the truck while skinning and said something stupid to Tim about the money I could be saving with Geico or something like that. And then forgot about them. Well, they stuck there. Stuck there so good, they were still there when we got home a couple hundred miles later. When Tim's wife noticed them on her truck after work the next day, she was not amused...
I thought I'd try again though. This past weekend we took that truck again and I put a coyote penis on the bedrail. It stuck there too. Haven't heard about it yet though.
- DAA
Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on December 03, 2009, 12:27 PM:
Now that's funny right there!!!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2009, 12:43 PM:
Thanks for the explanation, Dave. Now are you donating the skulls to the beetle guy or do you have a use for them?
I used to carefully cut the bung while skinning and make a perfect little furry donut, with which I made a necklace out of string and gave them as presents to deserving friends, relatives and fellow worker bees. Some thought it was funny. The nicer ones would probably be worth a few bucks, nowadays?
Hey, wait a minute! I think I just solved one of my gift problems! Rich, I lost your address!
Good hunting. LB
(just kidding)
[ December 03, 2009, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on December 03, 2009, 12:59 PM:
The beetle guy always keeps a few and I let him have pick of the litter. I get the rest back. Have actually sold a few, for an almost embarrassingly high amount, then included a half share for the beetle guy in the next shipment. Have given away more than sold though.
Lately, I'm hanging on to them. Have a project in mind. Going to line the perimeter of my reloading room with them. On the walls, just under the ceiling. Kind of like a crown molding. I'm going to need a couple hundred of them to do it though. Won't have that many for another year or two.
- DAA
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on December 03, 2009, 02:21 PM:
LOL Geico eyeballs, good one Dave.
I once left some skinned carcases in the back of my truck,(I skinned at home at that time) was gonna haul em off and dump/bury them in a nearby field but forgot. Beer makes you do that sometimes. Wife goes to town next morning in the truck,and when she goes to put the groceries in the back of the truck, she flips.
I got a whoopin' when she got home ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2009, 02:23 PM:
Wow! Quite a project.
I could just see my grandkids, who don't want to sleep on the sofa bed in the "Dead Room" (as it is) if I were to doll it up with coyote skulls, like crown molding. Save those eyes, Dave! Lift up the toilet seat and those Geico eyes are staring at ya! We's weird, no doubt about it.
Good hunting. LB
edit: why the wooping, Lonehowl? No room for groceries?
[ December 03, 2009, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on December 03, 2009, 02:46 PM:
quote:
We's weird, no doubt about it.
Yup, no doubt about it. See anything strange in this picture?
I mean besides the fact I've got my cot setup and no tent? Actually had a tent along and really wanted to use it. But we managed to leave the tent POLES at home. So got to sleep out. Kind of chilly...
But, anyway, there is a pair of eyeballs on the corner of that little table. I had just finished peeling a coyote and was getting ready to cook the steaks. Put those eyes on the table and didn't say anything. Then when dinner was ready I put Tim's plate down on the table so that when he sat down to eat those eyes would be staring right at him. He didn't miss a beat. Acted like he didn't see them and just started eating. Waited until he was half done with his steak before dead pan commenting, without looking up, "I feel like I'm being watched".
- DAA
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on December 03, 2009, 02:47 PM:
LB, no. I think it was the blood on the bottom of the bags that did it.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on December 03, 2009, 10:11 PM:
Yes, I know, we learn the hard way sometimes. I once boiled a badger skull in the spaghetti pot while my pregnant wifey was out. The mess was already cleaned up when she got home but PHEWIE!!! but badger brain soup is stinking and lingers a good long while too!!!
P.S. Dave, I've got to meet this mysterious and loyal friend of yours, Tim. Why don't you reiterate an already given invite to him to join the crowd at HM. Seems like a guy with a great sense of humor.
[ December 03, 2009, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2009, 10:27 PM:
I get the impression that partner Tim is not a techie in any sense of the word, he might not even have a computer, or if he does, doesn't turn it on for weeks at a time? As I recall, he owns a plain vanilla 243 but shoots Dave's exotics, while Dave films, just to be nice. But, yeah, why doesn't he check in here once in a while? He has earned high praise as the best partner, ever. By DAA himself. You have to pay attention to words like that.
Invite him over, lock the door, log on and tell him he can't leave until he tells us "HI". We don't bite!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on December 04, 2009, 04:16 AM:
Tim has never, as in literally never, typed a word in his life. I gave him a computer, it hasn't ever been plugged in.
I'd extend the invite, but he'd just shrug.
Kind of like me and neck ties, I think. I've never worn one. Don't even know how to put one on. A few years ago an occasion came up where I HAD to. But I still didn't (wore a bolo and nobody said anything). Just decided that after making it this long, it's become a goal, to die without ever having worn a tie.
Tim's like that with computers.
- DAA
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