This is topic Randy the Cajun in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on July 29, 2009, 05:55 AM:
 
What gives? I see on the rubber room that he is out at PMS? I didnt go there to look, makes me wanna puke, but just curious as to what the scoop is?
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 29, 2009, 08:09 AM:
 
The scoop is the same old soap opera. So routinely predictable that it is a yawn for bystanders, though I'm sure it is painful for Randy.

PMS has two problems:
1. Policy. A major flaw is deliberate, systematized conflict of interest.

2. Personnel. A manipulator at the top who chonically damages the site. A top circle who don't have the sense nor guts to get rid of either the conflict of interest nor the top frog.
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 29, 2009, 10:40 AM:
 
I have no real information, it's just a feeling, but I believe I smell a change in the wind.....
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 29, 2009, 11:25 AM:
 
I hope the hell they wake up and eject that fat ass from about 30,000 feet.
Preferably over the water, as he is allergic to soap and water.

Sometimes when a house is too dirty to clean it gets burned down.

Here's hoping for the best. Good luck.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2009, 11:29 AM:
 
A change in the wind would be called for, Michael. But, with their grip on power, I can't imagine them releasing that power, other than a sort of "my cold dead hands" situation. I further cannot imagine anyone outside the inner sanctum having any ability to crack that shell.

I said a long time ago that Randy in charge of that site would be the best thing that would ever happen to PM.

Open invite to Randy. If you feel a need to clear the air without fear of reprisals, you would be welcome here at Huntmasters.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 30, 2009, 10:18 AM:
 
With the new TOS, reprisals could and most likely would come if Randy R. came in here and wrote anything about P-masters. Besides, Randy simply wouldn't do such a thing. With the new TOS I could be tossed for writing what I have in this thread. I'm one that believes that SERIOUS change needs to take place over there, but it is likely my reasons are different from what you might think. I know that some here would disagree, but there are still some very good people working on PM, but with all the background noise they are likely not being heard. I also don't believe that RF believes he's working against PM's best interest, but the discussion has gotten to be to focused on RF. It's to the point where there is nothing he can do without drawing fire. For that reason, if no other, he should relieve himself of his fairly substancial legal responsibilities at PM and step down with grace. That act and that act alone would go a long ways toward healing wounds that haven't healed for quite some time. Am I a "Kool-Aid" blinded chearleader for PM, maybe a little bit, knowing that about myself is an important self understanding, but not nearly as much as I'm frequently accused of being. PM still has good points, but they are being over shadowed by the constantly nagging fact that RF has upset many many people and they simply can't let any of it go.
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on July 30, 2009, 11:17 AM:
 
MJM, hope you are right but my guess is that Leonard is closer to reality: the top circle are protecting each other and have enough votes to retain control. A few of us spoke up as RF maneuvered to consolidate power but we got slammed for it. The process was obvious then and still is.

I agree with you that RF probably believes that he is doing the best for PMS. Hitler felt that way about Germany.

This round is beginning to look like RaginC is in cahoots with RF to draw out suckers into speaking up. That's too simple but something fishy is going on.

There are several mods I used to respect, but as time drags on without major changes, I have little regard left for anyone who can remain a mod in that mess. I had hoped that some of the sensible ones would be quietly working for needed change. Hope so but don't care much anymore. Getting rid of the frog is only the first step of several needed.

Hey, MJM, thanks for posting.
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 30, 2009, 12:10 PM:
 
I believe that if you could actually know the moderators you'd be surprised to see how they feel about what's going on. There are two ways to look at a power or what is probably more accurately described as a policy struggle. You can stay in the your position and work for change or you can simply quite. All quiting does is take you out of the fight completely leaving nothing. I believe, and I don't have anything solid to go by, that several moderators and even the BOD are fighting the good fight, one that you don't and won't see. All I know is that things are different from the time I was a moderator. At that time moderators had a level of control of the board, but it wasn't easy to get things done in a hurry. People have jobs and family, they can't be on the board all the time, sometimes they couldn't be on the board for weeks at a time. Actions could be painfully slow. I'm sure the present configuration makes things far more nimble, but it's far to easy to unintentionally move to quickly, poor decissions can take on a life of their own as we have all seen. I continue to hope for PM, I continue to look for the proverbial light that still shines and it does shine my friends it does shine...
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 30, 2009, 12:18 PM:
 
Michael,

I found the light a few years ago. Take off those sunglasses. You've arrived!
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 30, 2009, 12:36 PM:
 
Tim - I sure missed you when you left PM....
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2009, 12:47 PM:
 
Well, yeah? Sorry to toot my own horn at this juncture, but (and to state the obvious) Huntmasters was created as a remedy for exactly these situations. And, while they were gangbanging me, hardly a word of protest. You know, that was in 2001 and while I believe things turned out for the best, as MJM said; it is hard to just let it go.

In any case, I don't have a whole lot of charity towards PM, Burn baby burn. The site is rotten at it's core and there is a significant membership that doesn't have a clue about the history and the malfeasance that exists today and for a very long time now.

Another thing that Michael said, Randy is too pure of heart to make his case on this platform, etc. Well, Jim Champion did it, before Fins and Fur.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 30, 2009, 01:16 PM:
 
Hey Mikey, did you miss me too?

I work harder than anyone I know, on behalf of PM.

[ July 30, 2009, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 30, 2009, 02:13 PM:
 
Leonard – This shouldn’t be anything new to you. I missed you when you were shown the door, I didn't like it one bit and campaigned for you on several occasions ... until I was told in no uncertain terms to "stop it". Since I was a moderator for only a couple of days before all this happened I really don't know all that happened so I can't comment. It must have been quite a show though.

Dan - what can I say, yes I have missed your helpful posts, I don't miss the posts you put up on P-monsters. I head it's been mentioned, over there, but I can/will no longer participate there. Not because I was removed, but because I simply could no longer associate myself with what was going on any longer. My original goal was to stop some of the out and out lies that were and had been floating around about P-masters. Stuff like financial misappropriation, manufacturers giving the moderators stuff and a bunch of other things that were just plain not true. I think to a large degree I was successful, but not completely. However there came a time where it became obvious that it wasn't about the facts, it was about character assignation and there is no stopping simple hate. Please, this is not the place to hash those subjects out again, your methods and my methods differ in that regard. So, Dan there is much about you and your skill that I admire, but on the subject of RF I simply can’t keep going there, it’s not good for my soul.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 30, 2009, 03:02 PM:
 
Damn Michael, I just asked you if you missed me.
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 30, 2009, 04:06 PM:
 
yeah a little. I guess I'm in a writng mood. It's been a long time since I felt like writing much of anything.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2009, 04:48 PM:
 

quote:

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My original goal was to stop some of the out and out lies that were and had been floating around about P-masters. MJM

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No disrespect, Michael. I don't think you were ever in a position to know about certain chickenshit decisions and unfair actions. You were spoon fed a version from their spin control meisters and naively swallowed their bullshit. For you and many others, it was a painfully slow and incremental awareness, but eventually stuff just didn't add up. This continues unabated. The membership is clueless, for the most part. They all know there is a line that shall not be crossed, just as we both know it .

That's the problem, Dude. Recognizing the shit they pull is small potatos. Add in the fear factor associated with expressing honest opinion, and that lies at the root of the unsolvable problem. Which is, management should be fired and brand new (and fair) terms of service should be implimented. PM's credibility has suffered for quite a long time and yet, they (the brain trust) continue to "Microsoft service pack" the solutions.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 30, 2009, 05:41 PM:
 
Some of what was floating around was simply made up crap drawn into life from several unrelated bits of factual information, then some of it, well not so much. I attempted to address what I knew to be crap and leave the rest alone. I don't expect to get a truly fair hearing here, I will alwys be suspect to some degree whether I'm guilty or not. I don't really hold it against anybody.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2009, 06:06 PM:
 
I don't know why you should not expect a fair hearing on Huntmasters, Michael? If the perception is that you are a "Company Man" then this membership will probably regard your statements as those of a "true believer" and for that, (unfortuantely) you know who is responsible? Other than that, I take exception to your comments. You will alway and always have received a more fair hearing here, than there, by definition. I don't alter, edit or delete, for starters. That sounds rather fair to me, as I understand the word?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 30, 2009, 06:35 PM:
 
The sky really is blue, even though you can't see it on a cloudy day, Michael.

Your truth may not be mine or ours, however you do have the right to voice your opinion as I do. Unlike others, I will tell you what I think without the sugar coating.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on July 30, 2009, 06:44 PM:
 
You can get a fair hearing here for sure. I can attest to that. Though I never messed around PMS much, I did hang on the darkside for a while.

Met alot of nice folks over there. The bullshit and stentch just got to be too much to take.

Hell, I think Dan even likes me just a little bit now.
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 30, 2009, 08:33 PM:
 
Dang, I just went over to PM to read about the Ragn firing fiasco that Andy mentioned and I couldn't find anything...

I guess it must have never happened? Are you guys just making this stuff up?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2009, 09:32 PM:
 
I thought I saw you posting on that thread, Lonny?

But, in their world, yes, it's like it never happened. What a crock of shit.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 30, 2009, 09:54 PM:
 
I was just being a little sarcastic Leonard, as I did partake in the attempt at a much needed coup.

In one of my post's on the thread in question, I expressed surprise that the whole shitteree hadn't been locked and flushed yet. Well, they didn't let me down. It just took a few more hours.

[ July 30, 2009, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 31, 2009, 07:44 AM:
 
The way they've handled this situation speak's volume's as to how PMS is ran. Those threads were a public out-cry to show the support of their favorite guy.

So what do they do, they flush them. I wonder what would happen if somebody started a thread showing support of RF & some people suggested Randy should go, do you think that would get flushed ??

Just sayin'
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 31, 2009, 09:37 AM:
 
Leonard - I know how you run your board and my statement wasn't a slam. It was an acknowledgement that my background is tainted and will always be filtered by what you and others have seen or think they've seen of me. We are always judged good or bad to some degree on not only who but where we've been. The same is true for me, I've got some experience with the styles of Tim B., Dan Carey and you Leonard. Form those experiences I draw certain conclusions or my opinion is tempered to some degree with what I know of each of you. Please don't draw any conclusions from that, there's no good or bad there, it's simple life experience. Some of us run hot/cold, some run on a very even keel most of the time. For instance surprisingly enough, Dan Carey has been very fair to me, but he's been vicious to others. I think we've always dealt with each other in a fairly straight forward manner, he tells me when he thinks I'm full of crap and I do the same with him, but I don't think we hold a grudge about it because there's a level of honest trust there. One thing we certainly don't agree on is how we handle our differences with P-masters issues.

Over on P-masters both threads certainly ran into uncomfortable waters. Some of it ran very deep. I think it says something about P-masters that they let it run as long as it did and they’ve left it there for all to see. It should also be noted that the public outcry worked and Randy is back on the moderating staff. While the discussion has been largely taken into the back room, it is my belief that this is not done playing out. I believe P-masters came narrowly close to burning down and they know how close a thing it was.

Edit: I need to add this. The reason I believe that thread worked as effectively as it did was due to the level headedness of the posts. There wasn't a lot of uncontroled screaming going on. What there was, was constant well controlled intellegent pressure applied by folks that are not usually trouble makers. That got attention and it couldn't be ignored. Slash, burn and insult doesn't get you very far, but intellegent even pressure just might.

[ July 31, 2009, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: MJM ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 31, 2009, 10:05 AM:
 
Uh huh. and hope springs eternal. But, in this case, from my vantage point, the "brand" has been so abused for so long, that there is no remedy short of open rebellion.

Predator masters has frittered away all cachet they ever had, and it would be no great shame or big loss, were they to implode under the weight of their petty internecine struggles via the back room and/or the Ivory Tower.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 31, 2009, 10:25 AM:
 
The one thing I don't get is the memberships role in all of this. RF has done nothing to me personaly but I spoke up because anyone can see he has been the center of problems since the Jim Champion thing and drawn alot of critisim towards PM, if he truly had PM's best interest at heart he would step down. Afterall, it pays nothing and he has all that legal liability, blah, blah, blah.

When he/they outed Randy Reeves that was plain wrong. Whether it was a power struggle or a disagreement, it shouldn't have been up to him to remove one of the few assets PM has left.

Yes, I had myself reinstated there and told em I didn't really know why. I still don't as I visited there maybe 6 times in the 3 years I was gone. But I guess I made a few friends over there and not everyone likes this place or OPHA. I hope things will change there for the better and will do what I can when I can. It would be nice to put aside all the bannings and have a reunion of sorts. (ya right)
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 31, 2009, 10:53 AM:
 
WHAT? Somebody doesn't like this place?

More likely, they don't like Leonard?

The format couldn't be simplier. You have the freedom to say what you want, and you may have to defend it; but it stands. Think about it. That's what this whole thread is about. Randy himself said so, but (unfortunately) it's been deleted. That's what you get over there, Politically Correct dialogue. It's oppressive.

I don't understand how such a flawed format has become so popular?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on July 31, 2009, 11:07 AM:
 
Its about the MONEY over there. The so called sponsors, which are paid advertisers, don't like controversy.

They let the threads go for a couple of days and then delete them before the money men see whats going on.

Unfortunately they are too slow most of the time, as the sponsors are alerted well before the threads are pulled and the threads are also cut and pasted to other sites.

You reap what you sow fat man!
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 31, 2009, 11:46 AM:
 
After looking around on PM by golly the threads are gone, I think it was a mistake to remove them.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on July 31, 2009, 01:11 PM:
 
I think most all the moderator's that have left PM Since kee are all snakes when it came to worrying about members when they were mod's....

You know what was going on the hole time! I cant see how you didn't ,
I dont remeber hearing your voices when guys got banned???? not much to say then, but now you guys get right in line to protest. but no protesting when guys like Rich Higgins and Dan where getting the boot on your watch???
The mod's that are removed now, I dont remeber them backing up any of the guys getting chopped.
in fact I think you guys that were moderators when everyone was getting shown the door fell right in line with
the over lords that run that place.. YEA YEA YEA I know you tried to back up some guys .
.
what's the big secret you old mod's are keeping ?

If I am wrong tell me a little about why Higgins was shown the door ,, MJM what was your vote ?
did any one put up a fight in the back room for Dan ? what was your vote on Danny?
I think MJM ,Randy Buker and crap shoot where all in to the game that was getting played in the back room of predator masters.
whats the big secret you boys are keeping ? Maybe the big exit bye all the moods in a year or so was just a cowincidence.. can you tell me what really went on that everyone left or was shown the door.

WHY????

tell us about foxpro mike? yea yea i know
they were nothing more then another paying advertiser right

[ July 31, 2009, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on July 31, 2009, 04:10 PM:
 
George - I don't really know what to say. Sure I was there when some folks were banned, I've never denied that for one second. Some I voted to ban, some I voted not to ban. For me every ban vote was a failure, not a victory. It wasn't until after I left that folks were banned in mass and I didn't participate in any of that. The one thing I can say is that the people I voted to ban worked hard to get my vote. I can also say this though, in the half dozen or so votes that were taken on Rich Higgins over the years I never once voted to ban. FACT, when Rich was banned I retired within the next day. It was obvious that I’d failed Rich and the membership of P-masters. My time as an effective moderator was clearly over.

As far as your ignorant comment about backing people that were being banned, You sir have absolutely no idea about what went on in the back room, you sir have no idea how heated some of the debate was. The vote to ban was rarely if ever 100%. Plenty of the moderating staff that you dismiss so easily stood their ground on banning and fought a good fight. I do believe the old system was far fairer that what is in place today. We had 23 men with differing opinions on how to handle these matters. Try to get 23 men to agree on anything, the back room was no different. What you are doing is fishing for a knee jerk reaction with little if any knowledge of your facts, your loaded with accusation, but little knowledge of what went on. If you want references ask Rich Higgins about how he feels about me. If you want to know more contact Randy Buker, Encore, Robb in Scottsdale, Crapshoot, James Lindley and Dan Carey, ask them how I worked as a moderator. Go one step further, ask Georald Stewart, Gerry Blair, Jay N. and even Byron South about who I am off the board, you might be surprised.

As far as the other stuff is concerned, I've addressed it over and over again, it's obvious that what I've written has either fallen on deaf ears or people aren’t willing to believe. So believe what you want I can’t change any of what folks think they know. It would have been nice to get any of the fancy stuff people think we got as moderators though. To be honest, about all I ever got for the late nights and consideration has been accusations and half baked crap like this. There was no power, no glory, no respect for the effort, no goodies or monitary gain, all there is consists of piles of aggrivation and an increased debt load. I'd like to jump in your face and sceam "FUCK YOU", but really, what good would that accomplish besides creating more childishness. ..... Like I said before, everything I write is tainted by what other people think they know of me....

[ July 31, 2009, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: MJM ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 31, 2009, 05:14 PM:
 
Now, isn't it refreshing to know that your rant will stay here for everybody to reference on whether MJM is a prick or a saint.

You have, (however) put your finger on a major problem. Yeah, it's next to impossible to get 23 people to agree on any thing. And, that being the case; for practical purposes, does majority rule, 50% plus one in favor of banning some poor slob? Or, as a lot of folks suspect, those twenty-three votes don't matter, it's what the ADMIN votes, that matters. Or, as others suspect, whatever Redfrog votes, that's what counts?

See, there have been a whole lot of statements and denials about what does, and what doesn't go on, in the back room. Gee, a whole lot of people on the outside looking in have entirely the wrong idea, right?

We are lead to believe that these backroom discussions are as sacred as the cloistered Cardinals of the Vatican voting on a new Pope. It's all Devine Guidance. Nearly, The Inspired Word of God, told to his Disciple, Redfrog

You are right about one thing though. The process has surely changed since I was there and perhaps even since you were there?

Power to the People! We want change we can believe in! Off with their heads!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on July 31, 2009, 06:54 PM:
 
see mike I am not not the smartest guy around but even I seen Mr Higgins get set up and put out ..
by team foxpro ,, how you didn't is beyond me.
See we are just 2 different people , your good a writing and putting together sentences and paragraphs .
Me I guess I spent to much time on the streets and in the woods , I may not carry the skills you do at the keyboard but I feel I have the skills to see right though what went wrong with PM
all of yea had a agenda, some guys were and still are looking to make a living off the sight another couple guys are trying to get a name for themselves . one of the past mods even was shopping himself around so much it got funny, MJM i don't know really what your story was but you also where like the rest just one more marionette on the strings being played by foxpro,, if things weren't going you way there and you didn't like the banning practices of all the true and knowledgeable predator hunters and were concerned about the membership you should of stepped away and voiced you opinion to the members. nun of yea guys were worrying about the members or someone would of stepped up and cried foul

WHY ISNT ANYONE TALKING.. and when the old removed mods do talk it in code or side of the mouth sarcasm..
Randy B & Lance ,are good in the way they ask questions to the administration now days, they almost sound like he is trying to inflame the members to ask what they are talking about . or to get the membership to ask for a explanation..
lance new Mr. reeves was removed from his job when he posted ( what happened to randy thread)
the same as Randy B asking about financial reports after his was removed .
not to many munths ago both would of said nothing about anything when they played for the Canadian team
( the back room boyz)

yea I like to now just what went on ,, back there that put half the team on the beanch..
what about my man dogboy why is he so bitter mike..

I guess mike I may be rambling on but you weren't the only one telling me I wasn't a PM friend or one of the family.. you remember telling me that? in a post when you were playing for the ( back room boys))

when me and the frog was in a heated back and forth post, you posted something that read like
( for me to make no mistake about it red frog is a friend)

you remember that Mike.. I do , and just your tone in that post was what made me mad kid..
you and your buddy frog telling me a member that I wasn't a friend to the sight..

To end this rant Mike I see it this way pal , Just as I wasn't a friend to you and the back room boys you ant a friend to us common Members of predator masters.

sorry you didn't get what you wonted out of PM kid

here is you quout

quote:

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George Ackley - Please ease up on the ol' Redfrog. Make no mistake about it, he's a friend.

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i would post frogs PM to me that he sent me about the same time that read just about what yours does.
but it was lost with all my PM when they just work on the sight last week.

[ July 31, 2009, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 31, 2009, 07:51 PM:
 
I don't know Leonard, I can't imagine anyone not liking you...
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on August 03, 2009, 09:05 AM:
 
Honestly George this is a prefect example of how communication changes between the keyboard and the eye of the viewer. My post seems benign to me, a simple communication between you and me. It was sort of a gentle hand on the shoulder, not an act of aggression on my part. I don't remember the context surrounding that post and as anyone that's been on this world as long as you and I have been knows, things change, perspectives change and people change. Now, as far as what went on between you and Redfrog is concerned I don't know much about it. I was not involved with any conversation between the both of you. At least none that sticks in my mind.

As far as Fox Pro is concerned, Fox Pro is not Predator Masters, other than that, man I've got nothin' for you. Know this though, I consider Rich Higgins a friend with all his good qualities and yes even with all his warts. I also admire the Fox Pro company. They have stepped up dozens of times when they simply didn't have to. The connection between them and Rich Higgins isn't any of my business, all I can say is, I had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. Also, I've never gotten anything from Fox Pro, nothing at all. I can't comment on anybody else's relationship with them because I simply have no idea. I do wish and have said to them, that the moderating and administrative staff on PM should separate themselves from the Fox Pro field staff. I view and have always viewed that association as a potential conflict of interest. That association was easy ammunition to use against Predator Masters and as you’ve probably seen, it’s ammunition that is used often.

I’ve written this before, I chose to fight my fight inside the system for many years and that’s why I was a moderator. Believe it or not you (the general membership) were more important to me than most of the staff. The vast majority of the time I was fighting your fight.

Interestingly enough, I’ve never considered myself a good writer, neither have I considered you to be a poor writer. Interestingly enough about 50% of the time what I write is taken to places I never expect. I consider myself to be a poor communicator…

Leonard – While I was there, when a vote of the moderating staff was called, invariably the outcome went the way of the vote. But, the process did change in the last year or months that I was there and from what I am gathering, it’s probably still changing. But I have no insiders view, I’m going on what everybody has seen on the open board.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 03, 2009, 11:40 AM:
 
FoxPro has never really been the problem they are perceived to be. They do donate a sizable amount to PM as well as other entities. The problem rears its ugly head when the frog puts FP in his sig line so everyone at that point knows he is representing both PM and FP. I'm sure George would agree, perception is everything.

Now we have another problem related to FP, Weasel is a moderator in the E caller section at PM and also on most of the forums at the FP site. That is a conflict of interest even to the dumbest bastard that ever walked on this earth. If that frog can't see that, he is that dumbest bastard.

For some time now, PM's interest has been other than the membership, $$$$$. Looks like the frog is trying to consolidate power base(bod)to ensure his retirement fund. I wish he would hurry up and retire, I heard others do also.
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on August 03, 2009, 12:06 PM:
 
MJM, your well intentioned naivety continues to amaze me. It must be real because I don't think you could fake it that well.

Here are a few realities. (Written while Dan posted and edited after reading his comments).

1. Dan, I see the conflict of interest as a bigger problem. It is not merely an appearance or handy ammunition for critics as MJM says, but it is THE single most chronic driver of the problems and controversies at PMS. It is not a side issue but a business policy at heart of PMS. The personnel problems have overshadowed it but conflict of interest is what warped some of them. Others, apparently like RF, deliberately increased and exploit the policy. MJM, you may not have benefitted. Others have and do, more ego stroking than monetary goods I'd suspect.

2. Money. PMS should be making money. It is poorly managed if it is not. Any time you have the number of eyeballs in one place that PMS claims, eyeballs of self-selected consumers, that is a marketer's dream. There is nothing wrong with making money. Non-profit is irelevant: directors, admin, staff etc. can and do receive non-salary re-imbursement from all kinds of non-profits as standard, normal, honest carrying on of their activities. Travel, mileage, food, lodging, equipment (such as computers, maybe guns?) and expenses for entertaining others are usual. A PMS staffer could get paid for hunting, attending outdoor shows, etc. Could...

There is a LOT of money potential at PMS, whether it is being made or not, and RF is one of several who know that. To leave out money from what's driving RF is naieve. When PMS spokemen deny the money side it is patronizing.

3. Faux Preu: Sorry, MJM, but denying that PMS dances FP's tune is a non-starter waste of time with most neutral observers who've been around very long. With the others, PMS takes their ad money and tolerates them if they keep their unofficial second class place in the back of the bus. Except for a growing minority antagonized by goon squad tactics, it is good business for FP.

I gradualy quit posting because once I mentioned the conflict of interest, I was constantly jumped on. It got so every time I posted Weasel or another mod would interpret my post to contain negatives about FP whether it did or not. It got silly. I got jumped two or three times for NOT mentioning FP. If I mentioned another caller, Weasel would jump me because I had not also stated in the same post that FP had a comparable feature!

Clevenger was banned for making Minaska look good. Ditto for Higgins. The final straw was when Higgins called Dillon's bluff. Dillon challenged him, then backed down from his own challenge when Rich accepted and gave FP 8 to 1 odds. Dillon and FP looked like idiots.

Hilarious entertainment, but I knew Rich was toast the minute that came down. Posts were selectively deleted leaving out anything that made Dillon look bad!

If that's not why Higgins was banned, please tell us. I never saw Rich violate TOS. Send me a PM if the reason he was banned is too private. I don't carry water for Rich but facts are facts.

Thank you for trying to keep the place honest and above board from the inside.

[ August 03, 2009, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on August 03, 2009, 12:56 PM:
 
Goly I'm such a sucker for this sort of thread. I hate cut and paste replies, but sometimes....
__________________________________________________
MJM, your well intentioned naivety continues to amaze me. It must be real because I don't think you could fake it that well.

I'm not as naive as you seem to believe, most of the points that follow have been addressed on several occasions by me. I'll hit them again, but remember I can only hit on what I know.

Here are a few realities you have apparently never seen or admitted.

1. The conflict of interest is not merely an appearance or handy ammunition for critics but it is THE single most chronic driver of the problems and controversies at PMS. It is not a small side problem but a business policy at heart of PMS. The personnel problems have overshadowed it but conflict of interest is what warped some of them. Others, apparently like RF, deliberately increased and exploit the policy. You may not have benefitted. Others have and do, more ego stroking than monetary goods I'd suspect.

I've written in this very thread that I thought it was a conflict of interest to be on the Fox Pro staff, what more can I say on that matter>

2. Money. PMS should be making money. It is poorly managed if it is not. Any time you have the number of eyeballs in one place that PMS claims, eyeballs of self-selected consumers, that is a marketer's dream. There is nothing wrong with making money. Non-profit is irelevant: directors, admin, staff etc. can and do receive non-salary re-imbursement from all kinds of non-profits as standard, normal, honest carrying on of their activities. Travel, food, lodging, equipment (such as computers, maybe guns?) and expenses for entertaining others are usual.

There is a LOT of money potential at PMS, whether it is being made or not, and RF is one of several who know that. To leave out money from what's driving RF is naieve. When PMS spokemen deny the money side it is patronizing.

Predator Masters certainly has the potential to make LOTS of money, but at the time I was there they chose not to push the money making potential of PM to it's limits. Why? When a board like PM charges a lot of money for services, the rebound can be difficult to handle. High paying companies expect a return, that return could be promotional pressure. With lots of low paying advertisers it's easier not to be influenced by the BIG money accounts. Make no mistake I see the troubles money bringss to a place like PM as clearly as you do.
Also, it takes money to run a board like
PM, sometimes a lot of money. From past experience with board upgrades (I have no information about today) this past board upgrade probably cost close to $10,000. If you doubt it know this PM runs in a big crowd and it gets expensive. I also don't question whether or not PM pays for travel expenses and room fairs. It just might, you can't expect the PM admin to foot the bill for a job that pays nothing.

If you truly want to know how their expenses are handled, go over there and hit the link that allows you to request a financial statement.


3. Faux Preu: Sorry, but denying that PMS dances FP's tune is a non-starter waste of time with any neutral observer who's been around very long. With the others, PMS takes their ad money and tolerates them if they keep their unofficial second class place in the back of the bus. Except for a growing minority antagonized by goon squad tactics, it is good business for FP.

I gradualy quit posting because once I mentioned the conflict of interest, I was constantly jumped on. It got so every time I posted Weasel or another mod would interpet my post to contain negatives about FP whether it did or not. It got silly. I got jumped two or three times for NOT mentioning FP. If I mentioned another caller, Weasel would jump me because I had not also stated in the same post that FP had a comparable feature!

All I can talk about is my personal experience with Fox Pro, in my granted limited field of view Fox Pro did not pull any strings with Predator Masters Administration. Other than that this is not my fight to wage, all I know is what I saw, it's easy to say that I saw something different, you would be wrong though.

Clevenger was banned for maing Minaska look good. Ditto for Higgins. The final straw was when Higgins called Dillon's bluff. Dillon challenged him, then backed down from his own challenge when Rich accepted and gave FP 8 to 1 odds. Dillon and FP looked like idiots.

Clevenger was banned after my time at PM. I'm told that he was banned because he created the P-monster board to bad mouth P-masters. Other than that I have nothing to say.

Hilarious entertainment, but I knew Rich was toast the minute that came down. All posts deleted of course, to protect Dillon.

If that's not why Higgins was banned, please tell us. I never saw Rich violate TOS. Send me a PM if the reason he was banned is too private. I don't carry water for Rich but facts are facts.

I've known Rich Higgins for a very long time and was very upset with his banning. He knows how I felt about the whole episode.

Thank you for trying to keep the place honest and above board from the inside.

[ August 03, 2009, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: MJM ]
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on August 03, 2009, 03:14 PM:
 
MJM, thanks. I misunderstood. I thought that you were underplaying the conflict, probably one of those keyboard nuances that I would not have misunderstood in person.

FoxPro may not be pulling strings but their reps and salesmen who are on PM staff are. FP, conflict of interest and PMS staff are intertwined in an unhealthy way.

I didn't think the Monster criticized PMS much till after they banned Gary. It looked like an excuse. The truth is that no one can speak of these things freely at PMS, with or without courtesy or profanity. It is funny to me that even PMS staff visit other forums (fora?) to talk about THEIR site, even on non-heated but verbotten topics.

TOS is a joke at PMS. When I joked about the obvious copycat look and features of a couple of FP units, poking fun at their claims of innovation, I got in trouble and the posts got deleted. Can you imagine a 4x4 forum where one brand of truck is off limits for consumers to freely speak their minds about features, company policy, etc? At PMS, members can criticize FP in moderation, and only if the thread gets balanced by positive posts about FP. I'd say check the archives but all the serious posts negative to FP are gone. Nothing else at PMS gets deleted like that, except the recent direct comments about the Frog.

When I mentioned conflict of interest in civil language, in the following post a PMS member accused me of pedophelia with altar boys. Which of us did RF and PMS choose? RF denied any conflict and warned me. The altar boy man is still a favored son, fawning and slithering his way though posts to ingratiate himself with PMS. The fact that PMS would rather have posters like him than me was a small revelation. The "soul" and practice of PMS is no longer in process of formation. Under RF they have made a settled choice.

They can have him.

[ August 03, 2009, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 03, 2009, 03:44 PM:
 
Some people will take injustice, while others will tear your head off over it. Guess who won't put up with it.

pussgut thinks of me everyday of his wretched life. I love it.

You reap what you sow, fat man.

[ August 03, 2009, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 03, 2009, 04:32 PM:
 
Dan, about the controversy between Rueb and Higgins. I don't know very much about it from the Kansas perspective, but as far as I know, the conflict is because Higgins publically advocates seasons on coyotes. You can tell them that, "over there".

I am just as negative about killing pups during the denning season as most, but I personally draw the line on game laws we don't need. Self imposed is great, but bureaucratic determinations on seasons and eventually BAG LIMITS on coyotes is a slippery slope. And, don't forget, if given the authority, they (Game and Fish) will use it just like your favorite Administrator over at PMS.

You wouldn't want that, would you?

Good hunting. LB

edit: the reason behind my opposition is because of where we started with a moratorium on lions in CA. Who ever thought that a device to accurately survey the population would turn out to be over a 30 year ban on lion hunting; but only for sport hunters. The rotten bastards! They now kill many more on depredation permits than hunters ever did. Can you see a parallel somewhere?

[ August 03, 2009, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on August 03, 2009, 05:12 PM:
 
very upset with his banning

See mike that just it you knew him for a long time..

Me and Rich don't even see eye to eye i don't think ,but i made my stand when he was banned ..

You should of made a stand pal..
that's the hole thing MJM with me anyway , you didn't help the situations any, even though you thought they were wrong. why would you stay around if your long time friends were getting the shaft?

Then you left anyway some time later. if you would have protest what you thought was wrong from the start and got asked to leaves the outcome was the same your not a mod anymore .But one thing to me is , if you would of got asked to leave for arguing on Riches behalf then the difference would of been that you would of been seen as one of us and go asked to leave for standing up for (one of us )the members..

please don't tell us that you didn't see how rich got set up, by Jay and frog

[ August 03, 2009, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 03, 2009, 05:53 PM:
 
"Dan, about the controversy between Rueb and Higgins. I don't know very much about it from the Kansas perspective, but as far as I know, the conflict is because Higgins publically advocates seasons on coyotes. You can tell them that, "over there"."

rube was pressured to drop Higgins as a scheduled speaker by one or more of the expo sponsors. If you take a look at the list of speakers is easy to see who pressured rube. I was at the last expo and it was a major disappointment. I would never spend the time and money for another one. I really don't know that Higgins wants a season on coyotes, he has never said that to me. I don't want a season on them, I want to be a man with some morals and not kill the pups or the feeding adults. Way too many of these self proclaimed experts are getting their numbers on pups and YOY's. I love to get the older coyotes that know I'm after them. Anyone can kill a pup.

You misspelled "publically" > Publicly < LOL got ya.....
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 03, 2009, 06:41 PM:
 
DAMN!

edit: I don't know why Higgins was dropped as a speaker? Don't care, either. But, to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that it was because he would like to see a season on coyotes. I only meant to say that I have read his position on protecting coyotes and advocating a season. There are a lot of people that don't hunt during the off season for various reasons but it's not because there is a friggin game statute and I suspect that a lot of fur hunters, and recreational hunters and contest hunters agree with me. Especially since there is no good reason for a season other than a moral objection, which is just like PETA's position. LB

reedit: in fact, I will go a step further and say that I find Higgins' advocacy offensive.

[ August 03, 2009, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on August 03, 2009, 07:46 PM:
 

quote:

---

...in this case, from my vantage point, the "brand" has been so abused for so long, that there is no remedy short of open rebellion.

---

quote:

---

Several times I saw Fox Pro ask to let threads run un touched. MJM

---

Is it just me? Can't anybody else see how illuminating that statement is? Like; sometimes they ask that a thread or post not be dumped and, (the other side of the coin) there are times when they desire deleting and request same....But, there were (actually) SEVERAL times that MJM saw Foxpro ask to let threads run untouched.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 05, 2009, 08:24 AM:
 
Or could it be that FP saw the bad press form members claiming (rightfully so) discrimination towards other brands?

I certainly don't know, it just doesn't fit the Mike Dillon I met even when I was a disgruntled ex-FP customer.

It stands to reason that other advertisers could look at the situation and see how bad the whole thing is being handled. I would take my money elsewhere but that's just me. Then you can compare it to the political advertising on TV, Obama was handled about the same way. It sucks reguardless and points back to the main issue, things need to change from the top down.
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on August 05, 2009, 08:37 AM:
 
Tom64 would be correct. Fox Pro was perfectly willing to fight their own battles. I don't remember a single time when they asked for a thread to be removed. Yes, I know that doesn't jive with much of the mythology surrounding threads, but that was my experience. If you have issues with the way threads were handled I wouldn't blame Fox Pro. They were very straight forward in all my dealings with them. Granted my only real dealings with them were during the time I coordinated the Globe hunt where they donated calls and Mike D. spoke during the banquet.
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on August 05, 2009, 08:47 AM:
 
Leonard, you beat me to it with your quote about FP telling PMS what to do. That is the most revealing comment made by anyone associated with PMS.

Tom64's quote:
"It stands to reason that other advertisers could look at the situation and see how bad the whole thing is being handled. I would take my money elsewhere but that's just me. Then you can compare it to the political advertising on TV, Obama was handled about the same way."

Where else would you go on the internet with your ad money? PM has the most eyeballs. Obama is a good comparison: when the mainstream media all goes one way, there are no options left of equivalent weight.

FP tolerates second tier competition but puts serious attack on serious competition. Dillon smiles and shakes hands while his goons attack. Good business and good politics and always has been, though ruthless. WT, the late Loudmouth, Minaska-- all got trashed BIG TIME at PMS and removed from advertising. WT brought some of it on itself. Where would you go with ad dollars on the net that Minaska hasn't gone, for example? You can take your dollars and leave, and lose sales. Second tier exposure on a site like PMS is better than nothing if you want to sell product. I know personally some advertisers who are holding their noses and paying for ads at PMS.

And whether we agree on details on where the debris in this train wreck came from, we all agree that PMS needs to change from the top down: complete house cleaning of personnel, overhaul of operating policy. Right now we have bad people running bad policy.

[ August 05, 2009, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on August 05, 2009, 10:17 AM:
 
Okanagan quote: "FP tolerates second tier competition but puts serious attack on serious competition. Dillon smiles and shakes hands while his goons attack. Good business and good politics and always has been, though ruthless"

Okanagan, It has been obvious for quite some time you have no use for FP from your posts on several hunting boards and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, but what the heck would you expect any company to do stay ahead in a fast moving industry? You blaming FP and the Dillons for the way their "goons" act and believe it is somehow orchestrated by FP management is silly in my opinion.

Most of the competition has self-imploded from my point of view and FP easily took advantage. Look at WT and Martz as an example. Loudmouth, well they were just that. Minaska had a major falling apart when things got tough last winter with numerous posts about, warranty work, and failing to answer the phone or emails. Maybe thay are back on their feet now with whoever took over?

If FP has tipped the scale in their favor, it sure isn't because they shied away from questions and concerns about the quality of their products on the boards. I do have to agree with you on one thing though, FP is ruthless in putting out a top-notch product and offering service that gains customers and keeps them.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 05, 2009, 11:07 AM:
 
Well, this is another question, entirely. I don't know about FP quality or service, I don't own one.

My entire concern is the free speech angle on PMS and whether FP has undue influence on content because of overzealous moderating.

Everybody has a different perspective. I think Foxpro has enormous and unhealthy influence on PMS. Now, if this is something that PMS dreamed up to make FP happy, I don't know? I only know that the moderators do a lot to make sure FP suffers no damage. If the product is so good that it needs no defense, that's great. But, there seems to be something queer going on, and that's my only concern. Free speech, as much as possible? Not happening over there, that's indisputable. And then there is the issue of the mods wearing too many hats.....

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 05, 2009, 11:44 AM:
 
However you look at the pms FP relationship one thing is blatantly apparent, pms is dishonest. I know first hand how FP is favored over any other member or sponsor, when the shit hits the fan.
The chairman of the BOD at pms is a FP dealer!! That should say something to even the dumbest asshole on the planet

I have both a WT 2030 and a FP Fury. The Fury has served me well without being sent back for repair, as has the WT. I like the Fury remote better than any other I've seen to date. I like the sound quality of the WT better than any caller I've heard to date. Mike and I buried the hatchet long ago and I think he is a damn good business man! He bought the frog for a hand full of pennies. Damn good move on his part. When pms folds their tent it will not effect FP at all they will move on to the next super power.
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on August 05, 2009, 01:37 PM:
 
I totally agree with you Leonard about the overzealous folks, a few of them PM mods, going overboard with the protection.

From my point of view, most of those guys are quickly disregarded and I don't honestly believe FP is asking for their help. And I think Michael's post's reiterate that.

On the same token, there are good mods and FP users like Curt Barrett who are honest, straightforward, and know their stuff. Just like when Tom64 mentioned Cal and DAA. Anyone who knows shit from shinola can see they don't fall into the wannabee category.

I can understand how some could see that realtionship between PM and FP as a little cozy, but I sure don't see where FP is calling the shots and causing the problems. PM has proved to be adept at causing their own problems.

On a happy note: I walked into a gunstore the other day and there were thousands of primers on the shelf. Yippee! I never would have thought I could get so damn excited about primers.
 

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Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on August 05, 2009, 01:42 PM:
 
"Okanagan, It has been obvious for quite some time you have no use for FP from your posts on several hunting boards... "

Obvious, but you misread one thing: it is not FP that I dislike so much as PMS.

Dillon is smooth with knife words and many of the goons work for FP, but the fault is at PMS, not FP. PMS is at fault for hijacking the site into a booster for one company. Dillon is smiling all the way to the bank. He has his official FP site and unofficially he has the largest predator site on the web. FP's marketing plan is either genius or incredibly lucky.

FP is merely a major symptom in this discussion. The problem is the people running PM. As said, if PMS implodes, FP will stroll on its way whistling.

edited to reduce extraneous

[ August 05, 2009, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on August 05, 2009, 02:45 PM:
 
Hey Lonny, glad ya scored on some primers dude. "Lemme" guess where they @ black sheep sporting goods ?? No ??
(edit for spelling)

[ August 05, 2009, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on August 05, 2009, 03:24 PM:
 
Dave, No, I didn't find the primers at Black Sheep. While Black Sheep usually has the best prices they really suck hind tit when it comes to keeping useful items in stock. When asked when they might get more of anything in its always the ol' "we don't know what we'll get until it arrives." That is a damn silly way to do business if you ask me.

Surprisingly enough, I got the primers at a small gunshop in Lapwai. Yeah, you read that right. $34 per 1000 plus tax for CCI LR 200's. Maybe not the cheapest, but when it comes to keeping things going "bang" price is of little concern to me.

You still looking for primers? I can run out and score you some if needed.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on August 05, 2009, 06:09 PM:
 
Thank's Lonny, I really appreciate the offer

I'm good as a matter of fact my local gun shop just recieved some Federal Match small rifle primer's so I picked up a few hundred yesterday @ closing time, my buddy there mentioned there may be a few more boxes in the back with my name on them. I'll check it out tomorrow after work.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 06, 2009, 07:05 AM:
 
"Clevenger was banned for making Minaska look good. Ditto for Higgins."
-----------------------------------
Not true. I find it strange how some folks only see what they WANT to see. I resigned as moderator a long time ago, and I don't go over there very much anymore. I was there long enough to know that those who were banned in those days dang well knew the reason why. After reading River Runner's post, I can see that things have changed drastically at P.M. and I sure am glad that I ain't a moderator there anymore.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 06, 2009, 07:31 AM:
 
"

posted August 06, 2009 07:05 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Clevenger was banned for making Minaska look good. Ditto for Higgins."
-----------------------------------
Not true. I find it strange how some folks only see what they WANT to see. I resigned as moderator a long time ago, and I don't go over there very much anymore. I was there long enough to know that those who were banned in those days dang well knew the reason why. After reading River Runner's post, I can see that things have changed drastically at P.M. and I sure am glad that I ain't a moderator there anymore."

No one really knows why Gary was banned. The way things are run there now its top secret, reminds me of Nazi Germany in the 40's.
I do find it strange that a man that can and does kill a hell of a lot of predators each season is banned at pms.
I've never seen one post from him that was a TOS violation. It could be he was a Minaska field staffer that called and documented too much success with a camera and a Minaska. Banned by pussgut, whom is a FP dealer, that in itself is a conflict of interest.
There is no short list of knowledgeable people that have been banned by the SS, at the rate they are going there won't be one real predator caller left.
One things for certain, he banned some people that will put the fat bastards feet to the fire.
I wonder how he feels, being the most hated person in the predator calling world.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 06, 2009, 08:14 AM:
 

quote:

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Clevenger was banned for making Minaska look good. Ditto for Higgins."
-----------------------------------

No one really knows why Gary was banned. DC

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quote:

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Yeah, and he is taller than me and I hate that.

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You wouldn't believe how many people have that exact thought, and how much trouble it's caused me over the years.
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on August 06, 2009, 12:15 PM:
 
All you honkies are taller than me. Most of you guys are tall, thin, and light. I'm short, fat, and dark. lol I'm not being racist Andy, so keep your Arian mouth shut! oops

I am handsome though.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 06, 2009, 02:49 PM:
 
El Guapo, that's you!
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 06, 2009, 03:47 PM:
 
Arian? WTF? Im not racist.

But you brought up a good point. You said Honkie. I didnt take offense. I doubt anyone did. But if I said Nigger or Wetback, somebody will damn sure take offense.

Thats what pisses me off. Its not so much racist, its the bullshit double standard.

Ok, maybe I am racist just a little. But when a race that makes up 12% of the population causes 60% of the problems, its not too hard to do.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 06, 2009, 03:48 PM:
 
BTW, you are a good lookin motherfucker Danny.... LMFAO
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 06, 2009, 05:03 PM:
 
El Guapo = Wise Latina
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on August 06, 2009, 05:39 PM:
 
Face it....all of you are short!
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 06, 2009, 06:04 PM:
 
...but we don't make out with cowboys.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on August 06, 2009, 07:45 PM:
 
Jason, you really need to let go of that fantasy....its rather disturbing.
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 06, 2009, 08:25 PM:
 
I can't quit you Geordie...
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 11, 2009, 07:56 PM:
 
Looks like poor old Randy has been froged again.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 11, 2009, 07:59 PM:
 
Yep Randy and Scott Ruff another good man, his run as a mod didn't last long.

And they banned me, screw em I'm ready to let the ship sink.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2009, 11:26 PM:
 
Hey Dan, I noticed a thread on the garbage board where they ask who would be a good one to replace RF. You can tell them for me that I vote for Randy Reeves.

What did you do to get yourself banned, Tom? Probably nothing more than expressing an opinion, right?

Good hunting. LB

edit: cripes! You can't even read anything on PMS without logging in! I guess it's members only, and that let's me out?

[ August 11, 2009, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 12, 2009, 05:20 AM:
 
I asked why Randy and Scott were no longer mods and they said I was stirring the pot. Course I did say regfrog and his mob needed to be replaced with men who had PM's best interest at heart...

I noticed I ain't a total outlaw, just got banned for 30 days, if I go back I'll do it right next time, if I go back.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on August 12, 2009, 07:43 AM:
 
My buddy Yotekyller, was also banned last night for asking about Randy. His message stated he's banned for a year.

Censorship @ it's best, what a bunch of assholes.
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on August 12, 2009, 09:06 AM:
 
I'm sorry to see this outcome, but it wasn't entirely unexpected.
 

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Posted by Chief (Member # 463) on August 12, 2009, 09:29 AM:
 
I just asked a simple question: Has Randy been banned? Got the boot.

John P
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 12, 2009, 10:28 AM:
 
"I'm sorry to see this outcome, but it wasn't entirely unexpected." MJM

When Randy got booted the first time I knew nothing had changed but thought if enough people stood up maybe a few could make a difference.

but you're right I expected the outcome.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 12, 2009, 11:51 AM:
 
...and guess who requested the (delete) (delete), this morning?

[ August 12, 2009, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 12, 2009, 11:55 AM:
 
pussgut said we will replace those that have to go with new members in a very short time.

Did you see where Barry called Randy a "little basturd"?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 12, 2009, 12:14 PM:
 
Hey, shouldn't you be training for the big fight?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 12, 2009, 01:57 PM:
 
LB, its not the dog in the fight, its the fight in the dog!
I can whip a frog any day without training!

You how scrappy the Irish are.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 12, 2009, 03:40 PM:
 
Looks like we'll be needing a new site before too long,

www.Bubbashuntin.com

How many Bubbas are there now? And help me out... what did Bubba stand for again? Anyone?
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 15, 2009, 01:02 AM:
 
Wasn't it, Banned Users of The Black Board Annonomis?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 15, 2009, 02:14 PM:
 
When PMS explodes, I really hope a bunch of those ass pattin dipshits dont end up over here. However, this place does have a way of self cleansing. I know they wont go to the blackboard.

Maybe they will start their own board? There are some real bizzare fuckin idiots on that site.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 15, 2009, 08:01 PM:
 
You know Andy I hadn't thought about that. One of the things I hate about PM is all the lunatics who follow a certain few and take everything they say as gospel.

[ August 15, 2009, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on August 22, 2009, 10:38 AM:
 
I haven't been banned from there yet. I pretty much just use the classified's buying and selling stuff. All my hero's got banned, so I've lost most interest there.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 22, 2009, 05:28 PM:
 
The 24hourcampfire.com has a classified section and a hell of a lot better hit count. Unlike pms they actually have thousands of members.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 22, 2009, 06:38 PM:
 
Come on, Dan Carey.

If me & Higgy can do it, so can you and Jimmy. Give him a call, then go down there and give him a big bearhug at the NM hunt. Don't let silly pride stand in the way. You miss the big lug, you know ya do!

Shit, man! You talk about him all the time, every post on garbage, it's all about pussgut this, and pussgut that. Your wife told me that you talk about him in your sleep. I told her I would talk to you about it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 22, 2009, 06:50 PM:
 
IF that happens, IM going to NM too. I gotta see this....
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 22, 2009, 07:30 PM:
 
We could sell tickets?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 22, 2009, 07:47 PM:
 
I sincerely hope they throw that guy out before the hunt. I think it would be in my best interest to stay as far away from him as possible. I have lot of self control, but shit happens.
 

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Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on August 23, 2009, 09:04 AM:
 
" I have lot of self control, but shit happens."


 

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