|
Author
|
Topic: Oklahoma justice
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted May 30, 2009 01:12 PM
do you agree with charging this guy with first degree murder?
There is a line of reasoning that says that you need to make sure the robber is dead , or he will sue you for all you are worth.
Druggist Arrested for Killing Holdup Man
By TIM TALLEY
,
AP
posted: 4 HOURS 36 MINUTES AGO
OKLAHOMA CITY (May 29) - Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.
Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero.
Ersland, 57, is free on $100,000 bail, courtesy of an anonymous donor. He has won praise from the pharmacy's owner, received an outpouring of cards, letters and checks from supporters, and become the darling of conservative talk radio.
"His adrenaline was going. You're just thinking of survival," said John Paul Hernandez, 60, a retired Defense Department employee who grew up in the neighborhood. "All it was is defending your employee, business and livelihood. If I was in that position and that was me, I probably would have done the same thing."
District Attorney David Prater said Ersland was justified in shooting 16-year-old Antwun Parker once in the head, but not in firing the additional shots into his belly. The prosecutor said the teenager was unconscious, unarmed, lying on his back and posing no threat when Ersland fired what the medical examiner said were the fatal shots.
Anthony Douglas, president of the Oklahoma chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, called it an "execution-style murder" and praised the district attorney for bringing charges. Ersland is white; the two suspects were black.
Parker's parents also expressed relief that Ersland faces a criminal charge.
"He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.
But many of those who have seen the video of the May 19 robbery attempt at Reliable Discount Pharmacy have concluded the teenager in the ski mask got what he deserved.
[ May 30, 2009, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 19 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.
| |
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32885 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted May 30, 2009 01:34 PM
The most sickening thing about this is the mother of dead kid saying he didn't have to kill my baby and the mother of the 14 year old boy that held a pistol and tried to rob the place, saying my baby would never have done something like that if those 2 other older men hadn't talked him into it. The other 3 involved are also now charged with murder.
If momma wasn't out smokin crack maybe jr. would not be in trouble. I wish he would've killed all involved with only one shot each. Reminds me why I practice...
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
|
posted May 30, 2009 01:57 PM
The little crooks came from such good families too!
http://www.newsok.com/multimedia/video/24707747001
--------------------
A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted May 30, 2009 02:04 PM
Dammit! somebody ruined the poll....must have been Giggles or Juicebox trolling?
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32885 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dan Carey
unknown comic
|
posted May 30, 2009 02:07 PM
It's agood thing there is one less POS on the streets. But, shooting the guy 5 times while he was on the floor is questionable.
IP: Logged
|
|
Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
|
posted May 30, 2009 02:25 PM
Yeah that is questionable Dan. With ammo being scarce as it is and considering the price, I dont know what he was thinking. After the one in the head, one or two more in the chest would have been plenty. A simple waste of ammo.
Seriously though, what the fuck difference does it make? He shot the fucker in the head. He was most likely going to die anyway. He deserved to die. The cops admitted that it was self defense, right up until the final shots were fired.
I guess he is going to get a murder rap for not killing the shitbag first shot. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted May 30, 2009 02:27 PM
I voted NO in the poll, and I hope that the jury finds the man innocent. I say that even though I know that according to the letter of the law, this Pharmacist should have stopped shooting once the threat was no longer present. His Attorney should plead him temporarily insane, and that is likely the gosh awful truth here.
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted May 30, 2009 02:39 PM
Well, the question here is; the spin doctors are portraying the robber as victim. I say BS.
Good hunti9ng. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32885 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted May 30, 2009 03:01 PM
From what I've seen in the video, the dead man was not seen once on the floor. Who's to say he wasn't reaching for his gun?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted May 30, 2009 03:08 PM
Good point, I thought of that, too.
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32885 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
|
posted May 30, 2009 03:54 PM
The POS got what he had comeing.How ever it looks bad that the intended VICTIM shot the POS those five extra times.If things were up to me the guy would never face a single charge.
I'm sure the local DA would like to wash his hands of this and let the guy go free.But of course he can't cause his hands are tied.And the guy will face trial.If the guy is lucky and gets a good mouth piece,thats smart enough to get an understanding jury.Load the jury with as many folks as he can of men and women who have been robed at gun point and stuff.
If i was on the jury i would help the guy as much as i could.
My vote was no he did not murder the POS,but deep down in my heart i know he sure killed the hell out of that POS.
Still i would not send that man to jail.
Yes this video shows a lot but it can not show whats in side that mans head.Like fear anger that rush you get when some thing like that go's down.You know kinda like when cops give a few extra hits are kicks.How many timse has that place been hit if at all. I would think that all plays a part in the whole deal.
I had a 12 gauge stuck in my face,i might have been 17or 18 years old at the time.It was on a coon hunt that went hay wire we were just some dumb ass kids hell bent to go coonhunting.Well we turnded our hounds out on a coon that ran across the road we was on.And the race was on.The hitch was things like that piss off some land owners,you know the kind that don't know who the hell you are.LOL.
The land owner came down there drunk,so drunk he had slured speach sticking that 12 gauge in every ones face.Trust me on this it's not fun,not fun at all.
The real point in this case is America has had enough of this kinda bullshit.
--------------------
Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted May 30, 2009 04:11 PM
Who is to say that the 'threat' was over?? Unless the POS was in handcuffs and had been searched, the potential for threat still existed.
Show of hands, please; How many here have ever had a 'dead' coyote get up and run off???
The POS made a CHOICE to do wrong. Life's tough........ it's tougher when you're stupid.
Oh,.......... another thing; somebody ought to bitch-slap the po' baby's mamma.
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8540 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted May 30, 2009 04:27 PM
Having just dealt with a slew of lawyerly types, here's my take on that video and how they'll look at it.
The first shot was justified as the kid posed a presumed threat to the welfare and safety of the shooter and his employee. From that point, on the shooter didn't seem too awfully concerned about the guy on the floor, walking past him without really checking him, or attempting to secure any weapons he might have been in possession of. He stepped over him, went out the door, came back in and nonchalantly walked over him again, once again not taking the time to check him, went to the back without making any effort to keep an eye on this kid, acquired a new weapon or more rounds and put more shots into him.
Had it been me, I'd have taken the first shot, then kept my eye on the assailant and found a place of cover to afford me a full view of the dirt bag and the front door in case his buddy would try to come back. I'd have called 911, told them I had shot the guy and that I was in possession of a weapon so they could relay that to responding LEO's. Then, when they get there, announce again that you have a gun, you're laying it down, lay it down and place your hands behind your head in clear view so they can secure you and remove you from the scene. They're going to do it, and probably in cuffs, so just go along with it as a matter of your own safety. I never would have left that lobby area, and never would have taken my eyes off the guy. If he moved again in a manner indicating that he still posed a threat, I'd have kicked the living shit out of him but he'd have had to give me a good reason to shoot him again, let alone five times.
Given the situation, the shooter is toast. He'll likely get the charges pleaded down to manslaughter from murder 1, but he'll still eat this one. I'd take this as a lesson to think through the process when you first decide to acquire a handgun for personal protection rather than waiting until you're in the sights. Take the proper classses and learn how these types of situations should best be handled rather than flying by the seat of your pants. Pandemonium and semi-auto handguns are a bad mix.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted May 30, 2009 04:42 PM
Okay, that mama's poor baby. Where did he steal my $500 semiauto? But he sure looked like he meant bidness, can't tell if he's 14 or 28, which is the same age as his mother?
I hope this guy doesn't get a OJ jury. He will probably be convicted of something like manslaughter because his lawyere should be able to argue that he was killing a dead man, already shot in the head?
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32885 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
|
posted May 30, 2009 06:14 PM
quote:
I'd take this as a lesson...
And the lesson is, discard the video!
If the guy gets a jury from the OK City area, its a toss up as to the out come. If the the jury is from anywhere else in the state, the guy will walk.
--------------------
A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted May 30, 2009 07:04 PM
Video or no, three shots: two to the torso, one to the head. Five is overkill.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Brad Norman
Okie Dokie
Member # 234
|
posted June 01, 2009 08:30 AM
There isn't a jury in Oklahoma County that would convict the man and there damn sure isn't a jury in the surrounding counties that would either.
Posts: 298 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
|
posted June 01, 2009 10:03 AM
I simply can't take the poll. In my mind I support the shooter, for the first shot and would have supported him if he didn't stop shooting once he started. ......
but that's not what happened. The man appeared to be calm and thinking all the time. I suppose the criminal could have been moving around and appeared to be pulling a weapon, but it sure doesn't look that way. I think he saved Oklahoma the cost of more or less life long imprisonment and medical bills for the criminal. There's a large part of me that says "Ohhhh yeah, way to go", but there's a part that says, "But he shot the kid 5 times long after he was down......." I simply can't take the poll, because I'd have to call it murder, but I don't agree with myself on this one.....
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted June 01, 2009 03:39 PM
I have an idea. Since head shots are almost always fatal (can't say that I've ever worked any GSW's to the head that weren't), let's assume the first shot was fatal, and self defense. Then, charge him with five counts of desicrating a body. Would that fly? Or, better yet, misdemeanor homicide. Take your pick.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
|
posted June 01, 2009 04:08 PM
His mom says "My baby made a mistake..."
Yep, I'd have to agree, committing armed robbery was a big mistake. One he won't repeat.
--------------------
Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
Posts: 431 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 01, 2009 06:02 PM
Lance, it's like hitting a pedestrian with your three quarter ton pick up.....and then backing back over him just to make sure he's dead. Sure, it was an accident and a damned shame, but after that, who can prove that he didn't hit a soft speed bump in reverse? That's kinda like the recent deal in Saudi Arabia where they beheaded some guy for rape and other things, and then crucified his corpse. So hanging dead meat on a cross is sorta the same as pumping 5 extra rounds into a dead robber....he ain't killing him, is he? The video don't show a heck of a lot, but it did show an armed robber in a ski mask. I'm just saying.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32885 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
|
posted June 01, 2009 07:26 PM
So you pull the trigger and knock the guy down... then you walk over to him.
At this point: what is the difference in-
A) BOOM, one more to the head.
B) BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM as the shooter trembles in tears.
In my mind...
A= a vindictive action, methodically finishing what you started.
B= a distraught individual panicking in a situation where they feel vulnerable.
If I've pulled the trigger once, and I walk back over to him, I'd damned sure rather explain "PLAN B" to a jury of my peers. My wife practices 5-shot bursts with her .40 for the same reason. As Shaw taught me, ATV= Accuracy Through Volume.
The average middle-aged pharmecist is not prepared to take another human life: I don't see how we can set a standard of acceptable behavior in those situations. He could've shit himself, committed suicide or laid in the fetal position but somehow he opted for shooting a dead body repeatedly.
Dead men don't testify and fear for your life can make anything seem logical. Crime stoppers should hand the guy $500 for the children this punk would've spawned.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted June 01, 2009 08:38 PM
Now Jason, that there is just harsh. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
