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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 23, 2008, 11:31 AM:
Who alls going to be there this year?
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on December 23, 2008, 03:01 PM:
see ya there Andy.....if you's goin' to be there agian this year?
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 23, 2008, 04:25 PM:
Ill be there with Danny. See ya there TR! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on December 23, 2008, 04:26 PM:
TR, Forgot to ask you if youve been practicing your two pointers.... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on December 23, 2008, 07:14 PM:
I've never killed a coyote that would qualify as a "two pointer" so no need to practice in killing them. You know the saying, "A one pointer in the truck is worth more than a two pointer in the bush." ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 03, 2009, 06:52 AM:
Well TR, I aint gonna make it. I fell and cut my trigger fimger to the knuckle. Got infected. Besides the trigger pull problem, Im afraid if I dont pay attention I may lose it. Good luck and have fun.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 03, 2009, 10:57 AM:
What a pus!
Steve0 showed up last year right after he had all that major cosmetic surgery. He probably wrote it off as a business expense; all those video stars do it?
Well, seriously, that's too bad. How the heck did you manage to slice your most important nose picker so severely?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 03, 2009, 11:49 AM:
I was helpin my boys set some beaver and coon traps. I climbed down about a 8' mud bank to make a set on a beaver slide. On the way back up I was climbing on all fours. When I got almost to the top I stood up and my feet went out from under me. I fell forward to catch myself so I didnt slide down the bank and hit my hand on a #3 doublespring. It wasnt set, but my finger between the nail and nuckle, hit the jaw and fileted it all the way into the knuckle.
At the time it didnt seem too bad, I figgered it was just a cut. I wrapped a glove around it and continued about my business. Got home and I could see the knuckle bone! Like a dumbass I didnt get it stitched. Then it got infected. And here I am. Hoping the infection dies before it gets into the bone. Dont want to talk about that....
[ January 03, 2009, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 03, 2009, 04:04 PM:
What in the hell were you using a coyote trap on beaver for?
Can you use the #4 there?
You'd better just send me all of those #3 coyote traps, I'll be sure the evil bastard never hurt you again !
( Are you catching many beaver? )
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 03, 2009, 04:55 PM:
Ive been using 3s for beaver forever. I got some 4s but 3s work great for front foot drown sets. At least I havent had any problems.
We just got started. Caught one this week was all. Im thinking that was the only one in that particular pool? It was a young male and there hasnt been any activity or wet slides since. We caught 4 coons and a couple possum off that little stretch of creek. Pulled them up yesterday and going to set a different stretch tomorrow.
Were not hitting it too hard. The boys are expressing an intrest and I want them to learn. Were not after numbers, just a learning experience for them. Im having fun too.
Of course now Im limited to walking along and answering questions and giving instruction. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Ive been taking some pictures of them and their fur. Ill try to send them to you or post them when were done, if you wanna see?
Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 05, 2009, 06:32 AM:
I will be there.
Looking forward to getting away for the weekend.
Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 06, 2009, 08:12 AM:
http://www.predatorsniperstyx.com/blog/?p=5
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 06, 2009, 06:27 PM:
Don't feel too bad Andy. I've caught my hand in a Bridger 3, 4 coiled and modified. I cussed twice, once when I got caught and once when I hit the end of the chain. (old joke, I know) But I hope you get healed up. Traps can be painful in alot of different ways.
[ January 06, 2009, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 07, 2009, 04:25 AM:
When are you going to post those pictures?
I bought my first #3 Double long spring two seasons before I was big enough to set it myself. I'd have Dad set it, then stuff something under the pan and take it down to the Creek to "Wash off the scent" before taking it out to try and catch a coyote.
One summer, I finally learned to break it open over my knee and set it myself. Called the Folks into the dining room to show off my new skills.... then promptly caught the tip of my finger right at the edge of the jaws, and the spring pushed my finger up as it closed. Sliced the tip off even with the end of the bone.
Luckily, it was still several weeks before season opened, that gave Dad and I time to talk Mom into allowing me to trap again.
It was still several more years before I finally caught that first coyote. But I never quit trying.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 07, 2009, 05:09 AM:
Im not smart enough to post pics, but I will email them to ya Tim. The boys doing pretty good. Just a little over a week into it and hes getting a pretty good sack of fur. Yesterday morning he had 10 sets out total and had two coons, a muskrat and a beaver. Not too shabby for a learning boy.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 07, 2009, 09:25 PM:
Andy,
Looks like you have some stories to tell !
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 08, 2009, 03:13 AM:
Thanks Tim.
My boys, especially the oldest, have been showing some intrest in trapping. I had put my traps up several years back, but they dug them out and got everything ready. There is a creek not too far from here that they wanted to trap. I told them I would go help them learn how to make coon and beaver sets.
This is their first weeks catch. They are wading up and down a little creek, with limited area. They took a dozen of my traps, but I dont think they have had out ten sets yet?
I think the boys are learning pretty quick. What do you guys think? Im pretty proud of them. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 08, 2009, 06:43 AM:
Be proud!!!
Hell, I'd even say that an end zone line dance was in order by the three of you. Maybe you could use the footage of it in your next dvd.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on January 08, 2009, 07:02 AM:
Dear God Andy.... is that the shadow of the Michillin Man taking their photo?
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 08, 2009, 10:06 AM:
Jason, that would be the eave on the corner of my house. You smartass. (Im not that big anymore, btw....)
KOKO, I think they have the fist pumpin and end zone dancin down. Who do you think I pattern off of?
And yes I am proud!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 11, 2009, 04:00 PM:
17 is what I'm hearing thru the grapevine. A new record, and by "you know who"'s. I guess, assuming the rumors are right, those guys are the irrefutable champions.
Posted by Lungbuster (Member # 630) on January 11, 2009, 04:28 PM:
Good looking kids....Keep the pics coming on their trapping season.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 11, 2009, 05:00 PM:
Lungbuster, send me your email addy. I got a pic I want to send you. I dont know how to post on here, but they caught a big beaver. Pretty cool.
Thanks for the compliment.
Lance, Im assuming you mean Jeremy. Wow. 17 is a big number.
Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 11, 2009, 05:23 PM:
16 was the number I think and yes jeremy and peterson. Scott and Larry took 2nd with 12. Shmidt and his daughter missed check in by 5 minutes....He got pulled over with 14 coyotes. Thats all I heard.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 11, 2009, 06:07 PM:
17 can't be a new record, they brought in 18 two years ago.
We didn't even go to check in, only loaded 4 in the truck, and none of 'em qualified as "two pointers", so we saved our fuel and came home early.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 11, 2009, 07:01 PM:
Did they get 18? Last I'd heard, the standing record was 15 of 25 seen. either way, great job by them, and way too bad for Schmids.
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 12, 2009, 05:15 PM:
WAY TO GO JEREMY, SCOTT AND PARTNERS!!!
If I'm picking brains entirely too much...just ignore my question. Just curious if anyone hunted sandhill type terrain. We didn't have the ultra vocal coyotes like last year. Anyway...
Congratulations on a great hunt. I'm really glad you guys were the top teams!!!
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 12, 2009, 07:25 PM:
Loco, Ive been trying to call you. How did it go?
Posted by J. Piatt (Member # 2827) on January 13, 2009, 08:23 AM:
Congrats Jeremy and Wiley!!!
Hey, what sounds were you guy's using??
JD
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 13, 2009, 10:19 AM:
Congratulations to Jeremy, Nick, and Scott. Don't know Larry, but kudos to him, too. Heard that there was a tremendous number of total coyotes taken. Over 400?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2009, 10:52 AM:
Larry is a rancher and Scott's neighbor, I have met him a couple times, good people.
I would also like to extend my congradulations to these teams, kinda like family, ain't it?
I'd also like to know how AR Shaw and Geordie did?
I'd go back if I had even a halfway decent place to hunt; but cold turkey, it's not worth the time and effort.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 13, 2009, 12:01 PM:
357 killed if I remember hearing it right.
[ January 13, 2009, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Patterson ]
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 13, 2009, 03:16 PM:
I need to pre-qualify, justify, and otherwise rationalize our hunting results. You see, in my area coyotes have an extreme aversion to Honkican scent, thus, Miguel Eduardo Hawkinzano and I were at a very large disadvantage hunting with our combined scents. In my geographic location, coyotes have the ability to sneak downwind invisibly, Even a Hawkeye isn't able to detect them. No kidding. In my area , coyotes do not respond to hand calls and I forgot the FoxPro DAA gave me many moons ago! Coyotes in my area are extremely pressured or otherwise just not likely to be in my area . Coyotes in my area pair-up around September and therefore, are very unresponsive to howling in January. In my area we have a tendency towards homo-sexual coyotes. Perhaps, that's the reason Eddy's estrus chirps were snubbed by the dogs. In my area , coyotes under a full moon are fat, lazy, and respond to rabbit screams, during the day, by raising one ear, looking in the general direction of the scream (without lifting their heads) and promptly going back to sleep.
If it were not for the extenuating circumstances unique to my area , Eddy and I would likely of placed very high in the tournament.
Eddy is a phenomenal hunter, one half of a "dynamic duo" in fact. In his native AZ area he generally beats the living tar out of coyotes every winter. He was at a rather great disadvantage with me as a guide this weekend. Perhaps, I should of read the signs better. A hunting partner blowing me off, another darn near cutting his finger off, and then an airline losing a $4,000 rifle - all very bad omens...
Looking on the bright side, I did get to sleep with Eddie Hawkins, twice times. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
[ January 13, 2009, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 13, 2009, 03:19 PM:
Guys thanks for the congrats, I will fill in some details later.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 13, 2009, 03:22 PM:
Loco; that post brings up some seriously disturbing mental images.
Sounds like you had a good time!!!
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on January 13, 2009, 03:58 PM:
With help from Lance, Matt, and Lynn, Geordie and I had very good country to hunt. We hunted two feedlots complete with lots of pivots and dead piles. Both areas had plenty of sign and with several sections covered with pivots and adjacent rough areas , it was not hard to figure out where the coyotes were spending the day.
We simply could not get many responses to our calling, but still mangaged to kill 5. With a 3 hour drive one way to check-in we decided not to go. Only had one coyote that was a hard charger.
The others were shot in their beds. We would slip into an area, and after the first sound from hand calls, a coyote would simply stand up. The ones we killed in this situation were from 68 yards to 238 yards from our postion. Looks like our approaches were solid. LOL
Other times,after the first series, coyotes would sit-up and stare in our direction. We tried different things on these coyotes, but they would not budge. These were 468 yards and beyond.Even at that, I had to shoot at the durn things. Elevation was good, but my wind doping sucked. LOL
It was a lot of fun. Too bad Nick lost money when he bought us in the calcutta. LOL. However,he made up for it in the end. Congrats to both Jeremy and Nick for winning. Also to Scott and Larry for second place even without horses. LOL
Randy
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 13, 2009, 04:27 PM:
Feedlots and dead piles? Your coyotes were just not very big eaters huh? Maybe you'd of had a chance at the big dog!?!? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 13, 2009, 05:16 PM:
gotta give another congrats to the winning team. SO, congrats Jeremy and Nick!! And to the others that got'er done and placed high!
We hunted unchartered lands on Sat. CRP and grass/pastures in an area that has beened airial gunned in the past. Started off on the wrong foot, shotgunned one on the first stand, only to loose it. Killed one on the 2nd stand with the shotgun, but that was the only action the shotgun got for the rest of the weekend. We only saw 9 coyotes, and they all came, some better than others, to the calls. Had one unbleieveable stroke of luck when I made a killing shot on a runner at a lazered 432 yards. My longest kill shot ever. BUT then lady luck got even when I shot at one that stayed on the other side of a barbed wire fence, and I hit a strand of wire and missed the coyote.
We only ended up loading 4 of the 9, and skipped the trip back to KS. Maybe next year we'll find a honey hole and compete better! One can only hope!!
Oh and by the way Loco, we hunted sandhill country on Sunday, and never heard a howl. Only heard one group on Sat. morning at about sunrise.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 13, 2009, 07:22 PM:
quote:
Coyotes in my area are extremely pressured or otherwise just not likely to be in my area .
Man, Danny, that right there is funny as hell. True, but still funny as hell. LMAO
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 16, 2009, 07:41 AM:
Randy, I thought you guys would be a good solid investment so much for that thought! jk lol
Here is a picture of our take 13 of them came from Saturday and 3 from Sunday morning. Good thing our Saturday was much better than our Sunday as we had plenty of easy misses on Sunday.
Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 16, 2009, 08:36 AM:
Congrats Jeremy and Nick. Hell of a hunt.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 16, 2009, 09:59 AM:
Thanks guys!
Congrats again Jeremy and Nick.
More important than your calling and shooting abilities, congratulations on receiving the "Sportsman of the year" award. That was nice.
Here was the statistics on the top 15 teams....
15th - Stull / George - 14 seen - 6 killed - 176.4 lb.s
14th - Westmoreland / Owens - 11 seen - 6 killed - 178.0 lb.s
13th - Rockwell / Peterson - 16 seen - 7 killed - 172.8 lb.s
12th - Meckelburg / Smith - 15 seen - 7 killed - 185.0 lb.s
11th - Hoff or Holl ( cant read my writing) / Sampson - 19 seen - 8 killed - 193.6 lbs.
10th - Phillips / Seelhoff - 14 seen - 8 killed - 196.8 lbs.
9th - Baucke / Baucke - 18 seen - 9 killed - 200.4 lbs.
8th - Roane / Roane - 17 seen - 9 killed - 233.8 lbs.
7th - Solze / Haug - 27 seen - 9 killed - 246.6 lbs.
6th - Cure / Crisman - 12 seen - 9 killed - 259.8 lbs.
5th - Albert / Tate - 26 seen - 9 killed - 262.8 lbs.
4th - Smith / Guernsey - 19 seen - 11 killed - 273.4 lbs.
3rd - Cox / Cox - 20 seen - 11 killed - 294.0 lbs.
2nd - Huber / Denke - 15 seen - 12 killed - 300.2 lbs.
1st - Gugelmeyer / Peterson - 2735 seen (lol!) - 16 killed - 436.6 lbs.
Haha....ok Gug & Pet only saw 29. Gotta give 'em a little crap.
I think we counted about 65 coyotes in the whole bunch that had some degree of mange. If 357 is the correct number of total coyotes, that would be 18.2% with mange.
We made 18 stands (due to our style of hunting), saw 15 coyotes, shot 16 times, and killed 12. We had to shoot one coyote 3 times to get it anchored and missed 2 running shots. Killed one quad and one triple and the rest were singles. Had a dead spell from the 6th - 12th stand of the first day where we only killed one large male coyote during 22 mph winds. Second day we had a dry spell between our second and 6th stands due to the area having been called previously. No coyotes in that area. Our good luck on the first stands of both days offset our dry spells. We estimated that we walked 18 miles to and from the pickup which is why we don't get as many stands in as other teams. The best we have ever done is 14 stands in a day due to the time we spend walking. We place more emphasis on the quality of stands than the quantity of stands. At least we didn't have the crunchy snow and ice we dealt with for the last 2 years which was a complete disaster. We were happy with our calling, shooting, and handling of coyotes. I shot 7 and Larry shot 5.
Brent Rueb runs a great contest and keeps the playing field as level as it can be. Things finally came together for us.
Congratulations to the 6th place team, Cure / Crisman, for killing 9 of the 12 they saw and shooting 75%.
~SH~
[ January 16, 2009, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 16, 2009, 10:15 AM:
Congrats Wiley, your one of the teams I watch every year. Very consistent (same as Nick and Jeremy).
Congrats on the quad and triple. How are those to haul out on a mile/half mile walk?
Maybe one of these days I will have the balls to introduce myself to you guys and the other teams I recognize from on here.
[ January 16, 2009, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Patterson ]
Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 16, 2009, 12:50 PM:
Patterson,
Take the time to shake hands and introduce yourself. I am a nobody in this sport but I have a lot of somebody friends in this sport. Just take the time to introduce yourself. You will get this warm feeling of closeness to fame. LOL It's true, sometimes I get all goosebumpily shaking hands with some of these guys. You know, like High School ball player shaking hands with Michael Jordan. LOL
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 17, 2009, 06:16 AM:
Patterson: "How are those to haul out on a mile/half mile walk?"
When we shot the quad, we made 2 trips to drag them to the trail we were following west then walked back to get the truck. On that particular stand (first of the day), our truck was about 1/4 mile E. of the stand.
We have a small piece of PVC pipe with a string attached. We loop around both front legs then half-hitch the mouth to hold the head up and drag them. We don't get to keep the fur so we don't worry about rubbing some fur off. If dragging two, we half-hitch around the second coyote's hind legs.
We did drag one coyote 1 1/2 to 2 miles on the 11th stand of the first day. They drag pretty good.
~SH~
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on January 17, 2009, 06:48 AM:
Congrats Jeremy Scott and any others who did well and are on the site.
Question for you that hunted in it??
When they ask coyotes seen?? Is that just coyotes seen during the day or coyotes seen on stand????
The Classic up there in ND it was just coyotes seen, traveling etc. It was pure white up there and many coyotes were seen, 12-24 inches of snow, but only 55 killed if I remember right.
Scott the Heid boys said to tell you hello.
Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on January 17, 2009, 11:19 AM:
Congratulations to all.
There is a team in there that shot 80%. Excellent!
Having never hunted in a contest where every coyote was weighed I am surprised at the difference in weight between 9th and 5th place.
Thanks for posting that WileyE.
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 17, 2009, 04:13 PM:
Randy,
I assume that most hunters interpret "coyotes seen" as the total number of coyotes they saw during the hunt. I only count the coyotes we saw on land that we had access to. We wouldn't count coyotes seen along the highway on land we didn't have permission to hunt. With that said, every coyote we saw this year (15), we had access to but I would not count a coyote I saw on the way back to St. Francis along the highway because it's irrelevant to the number of coyotes we saw in the area we were hunting.
It's possible that other teams might count a coyote or two in a place where they did not have persmission to hunt but it would be very few.
Jeremy?
Do you count coyotes you saw on land you can't hunt or were all 29 of the coyotes you saw on land you could hunt?
~SH~
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 17, 2009, 07:20 PM:
Scott,
All the coyotes we counted were coyotes that were on land we could hunt. Those coyote numbers were coyotes we either called in and missed, called in and did not get a shot at, coyotes we bumped walking into a stand or coyotes seen driving from stand to stand.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2009, 08:07 PM:
Well, I never heard that particular distinction, and always wondered what the big deal was about the number of coyotes seen? I sort of took the question literally, even if I saw them a mile from check in, I guess I should include it in my report? Predator hunters have been known to fib about these things anyway so I do not give it all that much credit. Yes, I agree, it is real nice when you can kill the majority of the animals that you call on a stand, and by that gauge, it looks like Scott and Larry made the most of what they saw? But there are other considerations, like just mentioned, kicking them up while walking in, seeing them as you drive by, things like that, that you have no control over so I wouldn't necessarily think that Jeremy and Nick fouled up a lot of those coyotes they saw and didn't have a chance to kill. Speaking of my own experience, when I'm in an area with a real high population, you just can't handle all of them like you want to. I can remember being on a hunt with a similiar format and seen fifty coyotes but killed twenty. The percentages aren't so good, but we made the most of it, such as it was. And, I can't count the number of times I saw six and killed every one. That's just how it goes, and that's why I think the number seen is just a curiosity and not a gauge of skill and talent....although in some cases, it certainly could be.
Now, the other thing that I don't agree with. Total weight. I think the number of coyotes killed is the deciding factor and weighing the entire kill is a crapshoot, not a factor in skill. I have heard the argument, "Oh, we killed bigger coyotes and that requires more talent."
What about this?
14th - Westmoreland / Owens - 11 seen - 6 killed - 178.0 lb.s
13th - Rockwell / Peterson - 16 seen - 7 killed - 172.8 lb.s
The 14th place team had more weight than the 13th even though they killed one less animal.
Well, what is this, a "total weight" hunt or a number of "coyotes killed", hunt? I believe in time of arrival. Period. To me, that's the fairest way to break ties. And, realistically, there will always be ties that need breaking.
If there is a protest on exceeding speed limits and/or dangerous passing, and it is in the rules, enforce it and act on it! But changing the criteria from numbers to weight; I (personally) do not agree with it.
Good hunting. LB
edit: and, addressing a common charge; Hey, those guys only killed pups! Well, what the hell are you going to do? A coyote is a coyote. Do you want to give a half a point for pups, or what? Is a 15 pounder a pup but a 17 pounder an adult? Where do you draw the line? You know, in some bass tournaments you can keep the small fry until you get a bigger one and toss them back when you land a lunker. I understand about the value of large bass, but I can't relate it to a hunt contest for coyotes?
[ January 17, 2009, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 18, 2009, 07:01 AM:
Thanks Jeremy, that's just how we do it. We won't count a coyote that I do not have access to and the same coyote along the highway could be counted by more teams. We're only concerned about the number of coyotes we saw that we had access to relative to the number we kill.
L: "Predator hunters have been known to fib about these things anyway so I do not give it all that much credit."
What's the incentive to fib about how many coyotes you saw? It's only a measure of coyote population, pure and simple. Those who have more coyotes in their chosen area will generally see more coyotes. What matters is the percentage of those coyotes that you kill.
L: "But there are other considerations, like just mentioned, kicking them up while walking in, seeing them as you drive by, things like that, that you have no control over so I wouldn't necessarily think that Jeremy and Nick fouled up a lot of those coyotes they saw and didn't have a chance to kill."
I guess they could answer that.
I beg to differ on what you can and cannot control. You can have a degree of control over the coyotes you kick up or drive by by knowing where they're at by locating them first. For instant, in the area we hunt, we know some coyotes will be on the side of high ridges where they can see approaching danger. If you approach from an angle they can see, you will bump them. If you know where to expect them, you plan accordingly. There is a lot you can do to minimize bumping and driving past coyotes.
If aerial hunting has taught me anything at all, it has taught me that there is a lot of real estate that coyotes will hunt but far less areas that provide safe refuge for laying up. You need to know where coyotes are staying so it will greatly reduce the coyotes you kick up or drive past because you didn't know where they were.
Leonard: "Speaking of my own experience, when I'm in an area with a real high population, you just can't handle all of them like you want to. I can remember being on a hunt with a similiar format and seen fifty coyotes but killed twenty. The percentages aren't so good, but we made the most of it, such as it was. And, I can't count the number of times I saw six and killed every one. That's just how it goes, and that's why I think the number seen is just a curiosity and not a gauge of skill and talent....although in some cases, it certainly could be."
Are you talking about daytime calling or nighttime calling? I always have to remember that a lot of what you write refers to night calling. Yes, at times, you simply cannot handle them all but there is just as many or more times that you can. Keeping them bunched, getting them into shooting position, knowing when to start and stop shooting, etc. etc.
There is teams that can consistantly handle multiple coyotes and end up killing a greater percentage than other teams by knowing when to hold them and when to fold them. That's not even debateable. Keep 5 bunched up until you have them in a position to start laying them down and you will kill far more than if you let them run you over or start shooting too early.
Shooting percentage, time and time again, will reveal who locates their coyotes, who carefully picks their stands, who doesn't get busted on approach, who handles their coyotes and who can get them shot. No, as you mentioned, it's not the only measure of skill but it plays a big role.
A caller that is a good running shot will consistantly kill more multiple coyotes than someone who is not a good running shot. In this game, you have to be able to shoot running coyotes when you drop the first of a multiple group.
Leonard: "The 14th place team had more weight than the 13th even though they killed one less animal."
So what? The team that killed more coyotes won over the team with less coyotes and more weight just as it should be.
Leonard: "Well, what is this, a "total weight" hunt or a number of "coyotes killed", hunt?"
Obviously it's a number of coyotes killed hunt or the team that killed more coyotes would not have won over the team who killed less coyotes but had more weight.
Leonard: "I believe in time of arrival. Period. To me, that's the fairest way to break ties."
I disagree. Total weight is the best way to break ties because it gives the tie breaking advantage to the team who killed more adult coyotes as opposed to the team that shoved their foot through the carburator. The day you get beat by a team that tied you but broke the law to beat you, you will understand.
Have a good day Leonard my young friend.
~SH~
[ January 18, 2009, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 18, 2009, 07:11 AM:
Leonard,
As a perfect example of this, remember the coyotes we shot in my South country? We were not likely to get busted in either situation. Know why? Because we had those coyotes located and approached our stands accordingly. The coyote you shot was not going to bust us like it would have if we would have drove over the hill because we knew it was there. Same principle. If you don't locate your coyotes or have a good idea where they are at, you risk bumping them. Same thing on our rainy day stand NE of Wall. I knew where those coyotes were more than likely going to be and we planned our approach accordingly. Stand approach is most critical in the early morning hours when coyotes are still on the move and alert. When you locate your coyotes and have to approach them over a ridge, you approach them directly with low light so the coyotes can't see you against the sun. Trust me, there is a lot you can do to reduce being busted by coyotes. We had one coyote bust us and that was a coyote that saw us approach from a high hill. We knew he was there but we were more concerned about the coyotes on the other side.
~SH~
[ January 18, 2009, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2009, 09:42 AM:
Okay, Scott. You're right. And, yes. I do hunt at night and fail to note that fact every single time. But, in response to what you said when we hunted together. I can tell you this much. You do know your territory and I have no doubt that touring this area from a plane gives you a lot of insight. BUT. Over ninty percent of my hunting is cold calling; I do very little locating unless I am totally flummoxed. Once I am into them, I like to stay in to them.
My guess is that Jeremy and Nick didn't need too much locating probably because they had hunted this ground before and they had a good population? Could be wrong, but it seems reasonable to me?
I understand completely, your approaches when you know or highly suspect where the coyotes are located. That's obvious. Just remember how well your techniques worked over in Globe? We learn from success and failure. It's not exactly like being on a different planet, but some methods work better depending on where you touch down.
I'm still kinda don't give a shit about how many coyotes you see on a hunt versus how many you throw on the ground. I mean, I feel pretty good when I dust twelve in a row, but I fail to see what that has to do with a contest that is results oriented?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 18, 2009, 12:44 PM:
Leonard,
We were hunting some new country we never had hunted before. We did locate and I felt it helped us a lot. We hunted with Scott last year and he showed us the benefit of it. Before that we did not locate to the extent that we do now. We relied pretty heavily on it and it cost us a couple coyotes. We drove through an area that looked good and looked like it should produce a coyote. We choose to drive through it because we never could get a vocal response. We bumped 3 coyotes in this area. With that said I think hunting your located coyotes is a big benefit but they don't all howl or we don't know exactly what we are doing?
The numbers seen is nothing I take too serious for reasons you mentioned above but I do find it interesting to see population differences in different areas. I felt we shot and handled coyotes pretty good on Saturday, on Sunday we missed some very easy shots. (we must of been still sleeping!?)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2009, 01:33 PM:
Yeah, I know. That's one of the things that bothers me in a high population area. I don't mind locating, if needed, but in some cases while you are locating those coyotes over in the next drainage, you have coyotes right next to you that are responding silently and it turns into an actual hunting situation more than locating. These are animals that can be queered, if you are just standing around the truck listening for vocal responses. There is probably a time to locate and a time when it could just as easily be counterproductive. That's just my personal feeling about it and other points of view are equally valid.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 18, 2009, 04:53 PM:
Leonard: "Just remember how well your techniques worked over in Globe?"
Considering all the variables that you know that contribute to success and failure in calling coyotes, that statement surprises me coming from you.
Yeh, I do remember how well my techniques worked in Globe. I remember that coyotes responded vocally in Globe just like they do in every other state I have hunted in.
As far as our not shooting any coyotes in Globe.....
#1. You obviously forgot that NASA could barely walk which limited me in how far I could get from the highway. I didn't expect to have much success by not getting too far from the highway. I certainly don't hold that against NASA. I thoroughly enjoyed his company.
#2. In addition, that was the first time I had ever been to Globe. I had no idea where to hunt or where to find coyotes.
#3. I spent more time sight seeing than I did calling coyotes. I didn't come there to kill coyotes, I came there for a vacation.
I guess that I wasn't aware that my hunt in Globe was supposed to be a measure of my abilities?
Trust me Leonard, with a little time I'd figure them out in Globe just like I have in every other place I've ever hunted which is many. I don't say that with arrogance, I say it with confidence. Coyotes are coyotes from the standpoint of their basic instincts for survival no matter where they reside.
My dad and I hunted near Yuma, AZ with a friend, Joe Melton and they responded vocally and they came in and we killed them just like everywhere else. I had never been there before but Joe knew some good places.
I killed coyotes near the four corners area in the world hunt but wasted a lot of time in dead areas because I had never been there before either. Given enough time, I'd figure them out there too.
It takes time to scout an area out unless you just happend to luck on to the right place the first time. You of all people should know that.
~SH~
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2009, 05:35 PM:
I'm sorry, don't be so touchy! I didn't do very well at St Francis for just the same reasons. You, of all peeps should know that!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 18, 2009, 06:30 PM:
Congrats to all of you!
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 23, 2009, 05:56 AM:
http://www.predatorsniperstyx.com/blog/
Brent posted the official results
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 23, 2009, 09:03 AM:
Jeremey and partner and Scott and partner, Congrats!!
Good show guys!
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