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Author
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Topic: Arizona Coyote Calling Contest
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 31, 2008 07:38 PM
The Xtreme Predator Callers is proud to host the First Annual Barry Fifer Memorial Hunt which will be held on Thursday 27th, 28th and 29th of March, 2008. The contest will run 1 ¾ days during daylight hours only, with no night hunting. Teams will consist of two person’s per team with an entry fee of $100.00 per team. Entry Fees are non refundable. After registration has been received, check-in locations will be sent by mail, to all entrants. Hand calls and electronic calls may be utilized only. NO DOGS OR LIVE DECOYS WILL BE ALLOWED AND WILL RESULT IN DISQUALIFICATION.
The contest will be a jack-pot hunt with 50% of the fees going to prize money after operation costs. The first through fifth Places will be paid. Due to the extreme amount of interest, this hunt will be limited to the first one hundred (100) teams to register. Pre-registration and Entry Fees are due by check or money order only and must be received or postmarked no later than 15 March, 2008. Entry fees by cash or credit card will not be accepted. Hunting areas will be confined to as far as you can drive in Arizona and get back on time. It will be the responsibility of the participants, both resident and non-resident to acquire proper Arizona Hunting Licenses. If you have questions regarding, contact the Arizona Game and Fish Department regarding. Licenses may be purchased at AZGFD or a local sporting goods store, i.e. Wal-Mart. AZGFD may be contacted personally, or by the internet at http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/licenses.shtml. Licenses are no longer available over the telephone.
FOR MORE INFORMATION OR CONCERNS CALL KELLY LEWIS
AT 623-694-8752
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted January 31, 2008 09:42 PM
Why didn't they have a hunt like this 30 years ago? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 01, 2008 05:01 AM
Rich,
Any chance that they may have the check in point somewhere other than Phoenix? ( Preferably South )
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 01, 2008 06:38 AM
Tim, the check in is going to be near Holbrook, on private property for security reasons.
Barry Fifer, who was one of the sweetest, nicest, most decent men I have known, died on an Extreme Predator Callers monthly hunt in October. Kelly Lewis and the club wish to celebrate Barry's memory with an annual contest hunt. Proceeds remaining after expenses and payout will be donated to a childrens charity.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted February 01, 2008 03:23 PM
I'd be intersted in knowing how many people that land in the money turn around and donate all or part of it to the same chairty in his name as well. Sounds like quite an event.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted February 02, 2008 04:34 AM
Rich H, is this contest the end of March conflict with calling and killing during the denning season? I was not aware any of the contests were normally held in this time frame as coyotes here would just be having pups.Seems a little contrary to your stated beliefs.
[ February 02, 2008, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 02, 2008 05:05 AM
6mm284,
Rich didn't say that he was going to hunt, or even be there. He was just announcing a charity hunt.
Some fellows limit their hunting to State imposed seasons, others to their own imposed seasons, and yet others hunt year round.
Personal ethics and morality should be just that, Personal. No Man, State or Church should ever tell you how you must live your life, as long as what you do doesn't have a negative impact on another person.
While there is nothing wrong with anyone stating their own personal ethics, I have never known Rich to demand that another person bow to his.
It's a charity hunt. If you feel like participating, show up and hunt. If it goes against your grain, then stay home. Either way, I bet that they would still take a charitable donation from you, and the kids that benifited from your donation, would be thankful just the same.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 02, 2008 08:41 AM
Tim, thank you for that my friend. I wish I were as diplomatic as you.
The board of directors of XPC just approved the contest at their last meeting. To allow the most time possible between the announcement and the contest they decided on the end of March, which is the close of fur season in Az. That is the close of bobcat and fox season and the date that the trappers on the Navajo Rez and the trappers in northern Az. pull their traps. The fur turned in at the check will be utilized.
Coyotes normally whelp around April 15 in Az. Younger females whelp as late as May 15.
In Oct. Gary Clevenger, Tyler and I took a coyote on a contest hunt that still had milk teeth. Tyler thought it was a kit fox. It was obviously whelped in Aug. Controversy can be found regardless of the month.
On one level my personal hope is that the contest will be held a month or two earlier next year.
On an another level I hope that the contest this year is a huge success.
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted February 02, 2008 11:16 AM
Thanks Rich, I am sorry Tim felt a need to defend you , it was not necessary. Your post perfectly confirmed what I believed was your position on the hunt timing.Nothing to be read between the lines of my original post to you. Very flat straight forward question directed to you and answered by you to my total satisfaction. I did not need a lecture on my personal ethics or my charitable inclinations and did not appreciate such. I don't consider this as sensitive a topic as obviously some do. Merely confirming my position is the same as yours. thanks
[ February 02, 2008, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2008 11:50 AM
I have given up on these ethical considerations. If we were ever to agree on the month to cease hunting coyotes, eventually the particular week, of that month would be questioned. Conformity and consensus work better on some subjects than others.
Should we start hunting in July, August, September, October or November? I'm sure every one of those months would get a few votes?
Also, I don't care when Higgins starts hunting, or when he stops, to be honest. I don't generally hunt the denning season either, but if I did, on those rare occasions, I would not feel the need to justify my actions.
But, if a person seeks comfort in spin, look for a label like "Antelope Eaters Hunt".
Good hunting. LB
(you're still my hero, Rich)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 02, 2008 12:17 PM
If I misunderstood the intentions of your original post, I apologize. I've always done much better understanding voice inflections and body language than the written word.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 02, 2008 01:22 PM
6mm284, I didn't feel attacked by you. Your question was polite and honest and I hope you believe my answer was as well.
Tim, I know you are always polite and honest-- well, honest anyway. I absolutely appreciate and value you for that.
Leonard, Leonard, what a sorry state of affairs we have descended to when I read this quote:
(you're still my hero, Rich)
from you. tsk, tsk. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
FWIW, the people who promote the "Save a Fawn" hunts and the ones that promote the "Antelope Eaters" hunts are sincere in their belief that the reduced antelope and deer populations are due primarily to coyote predation. They are not putting a PC spin on the name. Interestingly, AZG&F agree with them and the possibility of seasonal protection for the coyote in AZ. is remote.
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted February 02, 2008 02:52 PM
It is as hard to post one's true intent in words without inflection and body language to put them in context as it is for the receiver to understand that intent. I have become so aware of this on bbs. It is no wonder wars have started over words.I often do not even offer any reponses because of this very tendency of misinterpretation. Therefore I try to hold myself to the rule of never posting anything that could possibly be construed as having an agenda or responding to any subject where I have .
I did try to word my original question of Rich carefully enough as to get only what I was intrested in knowing. Unfortunately I am not always successful,but that's ok . This stuff is just entertainment( I think) . Thanks Rich, Tim
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2008 02:54 PM
well, I'm not trashing the name of the hunt, Rich. I'm just saying there are various justifications for doing something.
I have no problem in people doing what they want to do and not having to feel guilty about it. This "wet bitch" complaint that we hear so often is always a possibility during denning, but it also might be overstated. There are young, unbred coyotes, plenty males, barren females, etc.
So, it is not a foregone conclusion that if you call coyotes during the denning season, you are apt to kill a nursing female. Even then, a dead mother coyote; does it mean, as sure that night follows day, that pups will starve? There could be a few volunteers that could help....I don't know? But if a guy wants to hunt coyotes during denning, I'm sure not going to call him names. I just don't hunt the off season; normally. But, it has happened. So what?
I have all kinds of respect for the coyote, and a certain amount of sympathy, but we won't put a dent in the population by shooting an occasional female during denning season; if a man wants to do it, for his own reasons.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted February 02, 2008 03:02 PM
I also do not think there are any character,ethics or nobility issues attached to when others hunt coyotes.I can have those issues attached to when I myself hunt coyotes.
It is kind of like why some guys date ugly women. I don't understand it ,but I sure as heck am glad I don't choose to do it.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted February 02, 2008 06:42 PM
quote:
a dead mother coyote; does it mean, as sure that night follows day, that pups will starve? There could be a few volunteers that could help
This isn't a serious statement, right? This is tongue in cheek for the benefit of the illiteratzzi, huh. Oh wait a minute. Does the PETA Welcome Wagon (Sagebrush Div.) count?
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2008 08:20 PM
Serious statement
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted February 02, 2008 09:00 PM
quote:
illiteratzzi
Whoa Tom!!!!!! Now you are my hero!!!
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted February 02, 2008 09:15 PM
I'm not a degreed biologist, but ..... I really doubt that a denning alpha female (with 6 pups of her own) is going to receive telepathic communication, venture across the road into neighboring turf, and nurse another alpha pairs pups because "it's the humane thing to do". Animals don't have "compassion". That characteristic is reserved for humans.
In real life, Leonard, the widowed male will abandon the litter, the den, and eventually his domain. He will no longer have a reason to defend his "territory", and will become just another transient. Neighboring alpha pairs will expand their territory and incorporate his old turf.
There's always an outside chance he'll hook up with a female transient and try to start all over again. But the odds are not guaranteed to be in his favor. The majority of the time, he's screwed for the season and will get run off, since he's a loner now.
That's the real story without the Disneyesque emotion. Life's a bitch, when you're a coyote.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted February 02, 2008 09:45 PM
NASA, as you and I and the rest of us know, life can be a bitch when your a human too.
Rich, when I first posted I had no idea what this hunt is all about, sorry. Great idea and I wish the hunt the best.
[ February 02, 2008, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2008 10:03 PM
Telepathic, eh?
Well, no surprise, I don't agree with you.
I think at a certain age, the male and any siblings from the previous year can and will continue to regurgitate food for the pups. Okay, if they can't survive without milk, if they are too young for solid food, maybe they are a gonner?
But, seems to me I have read of documented, (or perhaps a few undocumented) cases of 10-11 pups in dens and the conventional wisdom is that it's a combined litter and that one bitch probably did not welp that many pups? So, for the sake of argument, where did she get them? Is it also possible that a female that lost her pups might hear whines from over yonder? Yeah, that's a stretch; but I can't say it never happened. And, neither can you.
Also, there are many cases of dogs nursing kittens and cats nursing puppies and dogs nursing tiger kittens in a zoo, and on and on. The mother instinct is a factor, as far as I'm concerned....so what this says to me is that it is not a slam dunk that the pups will die if momma gets hit by a train.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted February 02, 2008 11:22 PM
I agree that it's a stretch of the imagination to compare passive, domestic dogs nursing kittens, with coyotes. In that respect, we DO agree. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
BTW, don't presume that all denning pairs retain "siblings" from the previous litter. They can, but it's a non-standard occurrence.
I think it would be safe to say that if you killed 5 "wet bitches" from the middle of march to the middle of April, you have effectively killed 5 litters totalling approximately 30 coyote pups. There's no way in hell 5 volunteers are going to come running down the hill offering wet tits. Besides, those pups are dead in less than 60 hours if they aren't nursed and prompted to defecate every 2 hours. (Ask me how I know that.)
That's considered being efficient for an ADC hunter working a problem area. But when it's done by a recreational hunter, in a non-problem area, it's called "killing the goose that lays the golden egg".
[ February 02, 2008, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 03, 2008 12:06 AM
Why would I presume every denning pair retains "siblings"?
So, if you narrow the argument to the middle of March to the middle of April? I have already alluded to that possibility, here: quote:
Okay, if they can't survive without milk, if they are too young for solid food, maybe they are a gonner?
Why are we considering a goose laying a golden egg? If you don't hunt and I don't hunt, it's hypothetical. The question is, does somebody want to call coyotes between your parameters, March 15 to April 15, and you suggest the guy is effectively killing 30 pups. Quit blowing smoke up my ass. More than likely, any of the five responses the hunter gets wouldn't be a wet bitch, but it could be. It also might not be, as I stated earlier:
quote:
This "wet bitch" complaint that we hear so often is always a possibility during denning, but it also might be overstated. There are young, unbred coyotes, plenty males, barren females, etc.
I think you are overstating, and since by your own admission, you aren't a degreed biologist, I'm willing to allow you your opinion on the subject and I am entitled to mine, which makes it a Mexican standoff.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 03, 2008 07:30 AM
The summertime fun begins in February....
I wish you had the little popcorn eatin icon LB.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 03, 2008 08:09 AM
Thats the beauty of this board; we don't need no stinkin' popcorn icons. We always have some differing opinions, but thankfully lack the sideline guys who love jumping in with a particular dogma and calling him a dickhead for hunting in the spring or shooting the big boomers on predators.
We KNOW they are dickheads.....we just don't tell them so:)
The glaring question in my mind, when it comes to hunting during the dennning season, is why?, christ, we have a good five months to predator hunt, longer than even dare I say, quail season.....how much more time does a guy need to hunt coyotes, without bordering on being a glutton?
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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