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Author
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Topic: The price of common sense
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 05, 2007 03:00 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292168,00.html
Oklahoma police officer, shooting at a snake in a tree, kills a little boy with a stray bullet.
Now, I'm sure the office feels appropriately bad about such a tragedy, but what kind of idiot shoots at a snake in a tree, just because the snake is in the tree and poses no other threat, because the property owner said to, "just go ahead"? For the most part, the law enforcement officers I know - and I know a bunch of them - set the benchmark and are fine role models for how to own and use a gun safely.
Whatever happened to just allaying the property owner's anxiety by assuring them that the snake will be down on its own in due time and that shooting it would probably pose a greater risk to public safety than the snake does to begin with? Then, using the sense the good Lord gave you to find a way to get the snake down without firing firearms in a residential area?
There's going to be a lot of damage control to do after something as boneheaded as this. His price for being stupid: involuntary manslaughter and restitution, not to mention the end of his career as an LEO.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted August 05, 2007 04:15 PM
Thats one less cop to worry about.. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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BigO
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1062
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posted August 06, 2007 04:41 PM
WITH AN INTELLIGENT STATEMENT LIKE THAT, IT'S NO WONDER YOU RUN HEAVY EQUIPMENT.
Posts: 64 | From: reno co. ks. | Registered: Dec 2006
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furhvstr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1389
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posted August 06, 2007 05:38 PM
TA I like your choice in cartridges but not too fond of your statement above.
My dad was the chief of police in my home town. Fontana Ca.
Posts: 144 | From: California | Registered: Apr 2007
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 06, 2007 06:40 PM
BIG O, what does running heavy equipment have to do with intelligence? That statement shows your ignorance .
The fact that anyone's dad, uncle, brother or they themselves are officers of the law does not take away from the fact that this ignoramus' actions took the life of a child.
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furhvstr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1389
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posted August 06, 2007 06:51 PM
Wasn't defending the cop Smithers. It APPEARS that he is responsible and made a really bad mistake. Unfortunate on the highest level.
TA's comment I felt was uncalled for and not too classy.
Not sure I understand your ref. to operators.
[ August 06, 2007, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posts: 144 | From: California | Registered: Apr 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted August 06, 2007 06:54 PM
My dad was a city cop also no big deal. But to be honest i hate the S.O.B's
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 06, 2007 07:07 PM
BO~ WITH AN INTELLIGENT STATEMENT LIKE THAT, IT'S NO WONDER YOU RUN HEAVY EQUIPMENT.
It looks to me that BO was implying that it takes very litte intelligence to run equipment or if you do you are a slobbering imbecile.
I, as I sometimes do, was pointing out that countering a perceived "stupid" statement with an equally ignorant statement deserves mention.
I was not alluding to you in my post directly furhvstr, it was a general blanket statement.
[ August 06, 2007, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Jack Roberts
unknown comic
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posted August 06, 2007 10:22 PM
I hired a lot of heavy equipment operators over the years. It takes a lot of intelligence and finesse to be a good operator. You almost have to be born with the ability to predict the actions needed.
I also trained a lot of pilots and it is a lot easier to make somebody a decent pilot than a competent dozer operator.
Jack
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Rezgulator
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1548
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posted August 06, 2007 11:21 PM
What a TRAGIC loss! How could one's parents cope and recover from such an outrageouse atrocity. May the Lord in some way or some how comfort them. My prayers do go out to that family.
It would be intresting to find out how long this officer was on the department. Departments with shallow budgets do not get a whole lot of options to chose from for officers. The pay may be lower which usually does not attrack quality applicants. Southern Cal. cops do fairly well.
T17Rem- I do have some what of an understanding why you hate cops. I was one for 7 years and loved almost every minute of it. I, to this day say, "What I won't do for the brothers in blue- unto death!" The same for Jar-heads. Although hanging around a bunch of jar-heads can be like hanging around a bunch of Rambo's- not very easy. But love'em none the less.
On the other hand, I've worked with some officers who did not belong and did not make the best choices, deeply scaring people for life. (As you see in this situation) The situations that take place between cops, especially in the larger cities, is unbelievable. They can get caught up in the crasziest situations, tearing their own families apart. They do, as you probably know, have a very high rate suicide. (If that makes you feel any better) If you can accept about yourself and others, "if you're breathing, you/we are going to screw something up." It's like bull riding, "It's not if your going to get hurt, but when and how bad."
One thing was for sure, I loved chasing and catching women beaten meth freaks. I mean these guy's didn't just beat their women, they pulverized them. Snapping bones, blasting out teeth with fist blows to the face while the remaining teeth cut through. They screamed in agony. Most of the time those guys would cower down like a wuss when you caught them. With things like this occurring where would we be w/o cops? Cops are not fixers, just stopper for the moment.
I know, as a cop, I never beat a guy who didn't know it was coming and to some degree received what he needed. (Some times it helped them and some times it just made them meaner) But I think we all needed to get our ass beat or at least chewed once in a while. Keeps us humble.
Don't get me wrong, about meth addicts (Or any addict in gen.). If a guy is hooked on something and wants help, thats another story. (I'd try and help him) It's the one's who want to keep raping and stealing who need the TLC of the ol' long arm.
When you work graveyards, you can get pretty clouded. I came up with a few sayings- "I NEVER had problem with people, just the ones that breath." And "One difference between cops and pastors is, at least cops get to beat people."
For those of you who are pro law enforcement, I just finished reading, "The Reapers Line", written by a retired customes agent who stood the line, battled hard and did not compermise. He is also a Veitnam SF veteran. One of the things I love to see, is these war toren veterans from the wars abroad and in our own country, come to a place of peace or at least some sort of rest. We as people are only designed to handle so much. From what I've heard, going to groups where only battle veterans gather and talk about what they went through helps a lot.
As for fathers, mine (Full Irish) had a very very hard life which he also placed on my mother (Native American) and us. I love and honor him with a sincerity. (Though by the world's standard, he don't deserve it) As I am commanded to honor him and my mother. I wish things were different, but they are the way they are and the sun keeps coming up.
Don't worry, this officer will pay in full, as we all will, one way or another. If not in this life, the next.
Oh-yeah, just remembered another saying I had to band from use, due to justified complaints. "We wouldn't even be here if your life wasn't such a pile of shit." Boy if that one didn't piss'em off nothing would.
Posts: 22 | From: San Diego (Navajo&Hupa areas) | Registered: Aug 2007
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Crow Woman
Knows what it's all about
Member # 157
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posted August 07, 2007 04:03 AM
wow... extremely well said rezgulator and refreshing to read!
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Sheri L Baity
Lord, Please give me peace, because if you give me strength, I might beat someone to death!
Posts: 720 | From: Covington | Registered: Mar 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted August 07, 2007 04:33 AM
Rezgulator,
I read the book Reaper's line last summer. It sure gave me an odd feeling as I read it, I work in Douglas and spend a lot of my hunting time in some of the major drug areas that he talked about.
Everyone who likes to bitch about the migrants who come though here, need to read that book.
He does a great job of describing the culture of Mexican Law Enforcement and their Military. We will never get any help stopping the flow of drugs from the South side of the Border. And I honestly believe that the Politicians who make the decisions on the North side, don't want the flow of drugs to be stopped. Too much money to be made in the court systems and rehab businesses.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted August 07, 2007 06:47 AM
Jeeezus Rezgulator!! So from what I hear you saying I can come to the conclusion that there are good cops & bad cops....YOU were a good cop, yes? You think it`s O.K. to fore-go any legal proceedings & dish out the sentence that you feel fits the crime for that situation, yes? (i.e. beating the hell out of someone, only if they deserved it of course)
Hell man, you`re Billy the kid. I`m reminded of the line from "young guns"........"you`re all a bunch of little Billy bastards"
Tim may have come across a little harsh but I not only understand him but somewhat agree. There are few men on this earth that cause me any concern at all....but cops, they just scare the hell out of me & I personally know enough of them to arrive at that conclusion, they`re not all idiots but how many trigger happy idiots do we tolerate on the streets? I suppose as long as they`re jarheads & like to bash meth addicts for fun it`s O.K. to give em a gun & badge, yes?
& you were a "good one".........I feel so much safer. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted August 07, 2007 07:19 AM
Very sad deal indeed. It sounds like the Officer made a bad decision and an innocent little boy died. I wonder what kind of snake it was? A venomous snake that might have been a real danger? A harmless bullsnake? Do the Police there not carry shotguns in their cruiser? The Officer that fired that bullet is going to have very bad nightmares the rest of his life.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted August 07, 2007 08:41 AM
Have to agree with Mr Cronk, very, very, VERY sad. Can't believe they didn't get a shotgun with bird shot. Must have been a city kid turned cop or something, no common sense, and it cost a child his life. If it were one of my sons in that boat, there would be some serious rage going on... very hard to forgive a man displaying such stupidity. (I'm a former LEO as well, lots of friends in uniform and respect for them and the job... but that was stupid. No other way to say it.)
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted August 07, 2007 01:56 PM
What I have to wonder is how it is that the training process didn't weed this guy out. Bad deal all the way around.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted August 07, 2007 02:25 PM
The Officer made a mistake. That doesn't necessarily mean that he is an all around bad cop. Doesn't make everything OK either. Just a very sad deal all the way around.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted August 07, 2007 04:51 PM
That is my take too...Just a terrible tragedy. I don't think this guy is neccessarily a bad cop, it could just have been a temporarily lack of good judgment.
However, I do believe that police forces need to have a lot more extensive firearms training and testing than they currently have. I know far too many LEO's who are unfamiliar with their weapons.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 07, 2007 05:32 PM
Im not a cop, but I do work with cops daily. Cops are human. Some are good, some are bad. All make mistakes. Problem is when they make a mistake, it can be devestating for an innocent bystander.
Alot of the problem is pay scale, at least what I see. For instance, deputies in this county I live in start at approx 18k per year. It doesnt go up much from that. State Troopers get around 30k and go up from there. Plus the state has a great "80 and out" retirement plan. One of my best friends is a state trooper, exactly my age that started when he got out of college. Hes making about 45k now with great benifits. He will retire at 52yrs of age with 80% of what hes making then with the family benifits for life. Which is going to get better qualified people?
Im saying this to get to this. What I see alot of is the lower paid city and county cops are normally young with less education. Not saying all are, but if a guy goes to college to major in criminal justice, which job do you think hes going for? Most state cops are in it for the long haul til retirement or working up from there. Most of the locals are in it for a job. Some for a power trip. I know of a couple of locals that are in it because they want to make a difference in their home towns, damn the money. But not many. Also, besides college, the state has a tough acadamy. Locals dont have much training at all around here. I could go to work anytime for the county and do my training at night and be commissioned in a few months.
These are not the only reasons for good cop/bad cop, but they are definitely contributing factors.
The cop in question made a huge mistake and created a tragedy. I dont know of his training, but there is a good chance he didnt have as much. He definitely wasnt thinking clearly or he would have told the land owner that he didnt need to kill a snake, they needed to call a exterminator. On the surface, it sounds like a cop that was playing, with fire, in this case a kids life.
Its a sad story and makes me sick. But lumping cops all together is wrong. Being scared or hating cops is, forgive me for saying this, ignorant. Being afraid or hating certain cops is legit. I know if Im out of my home area or out of state, I feel much better if I am dealing with a state cop than a local cop, but that doesnt always hold true. I know a couple of rambo state dicks too.
Again, this is just my humble opinion and experience. And Im just a novice.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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claimbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 904
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posted August 07, 2007 05:42 PM
No one group of people or profession has a captive market on stupidity. It seems to be well spread around.
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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
Posts: 70 | From: Colorado | Registered: Jul 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 07, 2007 05:46 PM
One other thing I see as a good example, is when we have a runner go out of state. I have people all the time ask why we dont just call the local cops and have them arrested so they are for sure caught when we get there and all we have to do is transport.
Theres a couple of problems with this. One, we get paid to produce skips to the court. So I feel obligated to do it myself. The other is the luck of the draw when you call the cops. If you get a good cop, it normally works out good. They will do their job best they can and catch the guy. If you get a bad cop, doughnut eater, they may not do anything or alert our skip and make our job harder.
Example. I located a guy in Florida last year. My partner insisted that I get LE involved. I called the local cops down there about 3 that afternoon. The cop I got said no problem. He called back an hour later and said the addy I gave him didnt exist, sorry. I did some more research and found out he was full of it and called back about 9pm. I got the night shift seargent. A couple hours later I got a call from him and he said they were looking thru the window at our guy and wanted to verify the warrant before they kicked the door as he wouldnt open it. When we went to transport him, he told us they had 12 cop cars outside this addy that didnt exist.
The first cop most likely didnt even drive by. Im actually glad he didnt find it as he probably would have knocked on the door, drove off and the skip would have moved on to another location and I would have to start over.
Just another good example of the difference in cops. You cant lump them all together.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rezgulator
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1548
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posted August 07, 2007 06:46 PM
JD No, no, no- When a suspect stops fighting or resisting, an officer MUST stop as well. An officer must remain within the law and the dept. policies! I believe that firmly! I discribe it as a switch. You just turn it (physical methods of arrest)off when the suspect begins to complies. How can one just turn off the switch? Good training, good supervisiors and don't take it personal. It's when it becomes personal, an officer is unable to stop. I believed the suspect would be reacting in an uncorporative/combative manner whether it was me or any other person. If law enforcement don't ruin you, it will make you stronger, give you a better understanding of people and maybe make you a little off plum.
Do you mean brush court? What's wrong with a little brush court? "O.k. scumbag, brush court is now in session and you have been found guilty in the 1st degree. Relax dude, just kidding. I have lost a number of cases to glitches in the system. You must learn to accept the situation's out come whether they got away with it or not. Whether they got what they deserved or not.
"Little Billy bastard", that's funny. I don't mind being called that. (I love that movie, as you might guess.) I know who I is. If I didn't know me and what I stood for, I'd be cast all around like a leaf in the wind.
To be honest with you, I do prefer to be called, "****** Redneck." (My mom shakes her head, but she'll be o.k.) "I can skin a buck- I can run a trout line- A county boy can survive."
Were you or are you in law enforcement? What type of law enforcement? What type of area? What type of department? And if you are/were, were you eating a min. of one shit sandwich a night with an average of 2 to 3? If you battle hard enough and long enough, you will change and never be the same. Further more, have you ever looked into the eyes of a serverely batterd woman the day after you took her man to jail. Very few other looks have had so much depth.
When I was with a PD, it was not in a cop friendly area. A community dictates how cops react. Beverly Hills and Palo Alto are area's aggressive type law enforcement is not needed. It's in oppressed communities and cultures where aggressive law enforcement comes to rise out of necessity. Many people, maybe your one, have ideals which do not agree with how things are done. Go out and try your ideals. Until you try out your ideals, I wouldn't say too much. My ideals went out the window in about in about 1.2 seconds.
As far as you being worried when you deal with cops, I can understand. Even with my past, I get nervous around some, telling myself I better get away from this ass. They become some what paranoid and squirrly eyed.
Beating all and any addicts. NO! If you can bear it, reread what I wrote. If an addict wants help, help him or her. There is a big difference between someone who wants help and someone who wants to keep drug'n.
Posts: 22 | From: San Diego (Navajo&Hupa areas) | Registered: Aug 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted August 07, 2007 07:51 PM
quote:
Further more, have you ever looked into the eyes of a serverely batterd woman the day after you took her man to jail. Very few other looks have had so much depth
Have you ever looked into the eyes of a mother and daughter that just talked to son and brother on the phone and said he would meet them in 15-20 min. and not show.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of a mother and daughter that tried to call said son on cell and there is no answer.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of a mother and daughter, after they call every girl friend, friend and relatives of said brother and no one has seen or heard from him.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of a mother and daughter after they call the sherriffs dept and highway patrol and they both say there is nothing they can do for 24 or 36 hours.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of the older brother who went out with a friend and found missing brother 3 1/2 days later, frozen to death.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of a mother and told her, her son has been found and won't be comeing home.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of the son's daughter when you have to walk her down the isle for her wedding cause her father was in heaven.
A little harsh with my words! No! not at all...
And thats all i got to say about that.......
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rezgulator
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1548
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posted August 07, 2007 08:35 PM
TA17REM,
What can I say. "Nothen!" I am glad you shared that. For what it is worth, if you would allow me to say, "I am most true sorry!"
Posts: 22 | From: San Diego (Navajo&Hupa areas) | Registered: Aug 2007
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Rezgulator
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1548
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posted August 07, 2007 08:39 PM
I meant to write most "truely" sorry!
Posts: 22 | From: San Diego (Navajo&Hupa areas) | Registered: Aug 2007
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