This is topic Kokopelli is a bad man in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001551
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 27, 2007, 09:39 PM:
When he was down this past winter, he mentioned to me that there were small herds of Elk in the area just North of me where he liked to camp. I got curious after he left and looked them up, sure as hell the State even gives out a few tags in that area Each year.
I've never hunted Elk before, and I've only seen a few Elk in the wild. But I decided to put in for a tag, if for nothing else, than to build some points so that later I'd have a better chance of getting drawn in a more likely area.
Sure as the devil, today I got my tag for "Any Elk" in areas 28, 31 or 32 from October 5 through November 1.
Now I'm going to have to spend my summer running around the Mountains up by Safford trying to figure out just where these "Small Pockets" are located. ( Dang my luck, gotta hang out in the woods again! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)
Anyone have suggestions for a first time Elk hunter? All I know is that it's supposed to be "Just like hunting a wild cow on stilts" What's the best way to locate a herd? Other than by airplane? Do they always run in herds, or would I be better off finding a single animal and learning his home ranges and habits?
[ April 28, 2007, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ]
Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on April 27, 2007, 11:03 PM:
Tim,
First off spend some time in the gym, work on cardio. get your legs in shape. Thats just what you need to do to get ready to pack one out.
Get to a high point and glass, look for trails to and from food scorces, bedding areas and This is the key "Water" Bulls like little hole in the wall spots that are wet, springs that don't cross roads, type..... They like flop holes "Wallows" durring the hotest parts of the year they will be within 500 yards of water and generaly on or about the same level ( elevation) 5000-6500 feet is where I find the biggest populations. Don't spend to much time this summer lookin for bulls as they rut in mid September and are generaly in the final stages of rut when october gets here. They will change their habbits alot in 3-4 weeks and bulls will be puttin on the feed bag by mid October, tryin to build up the fat stores that have been depleted durring the rut.
Spend a lot of time lookin through the glass. It sure saves boot leather.
Elk are sencitive to being disturbed, once bumped they can go for miles before stoping, depending on how hard they were bumped. Sometimes they only go into the next basin or over the ridge and into the next drainage.
They like to feed in open slopes untill daylight and then work their way into cover and the thicker the better.
I killed a 5x5 bull in Colorado many years ago that fell dead smack in the middle of a pine blowdown. It took 3 1/2 hours to cut a trail with the chain saw to get horses close enough to pack it out for me.
I have killed 28 elk and even the little ones were a pain in the ass to pack out.
Congrats on drawing the tag and good luck..
sly
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 28, 2007, 02:52 AM:
Tim; my condolences on drawing an elk tag. It would be much simpler to just have someone beat you with a stick all about the legs, back & shoulders than to hunt elk. Evil animals to deal with either alive or when rendered to possession.
Bear in mind that in the years I've hunted that area, I've never even seen an elk in there. The only reason I even knew they existed was that broken antler tine that I found. I'm guessing that this is a pretty low percentage hunt even under the best conditions.
I would suggest that you get together with John Bacorn the District Wildlife Manager for that area. It would be time well spent. John's a good guy and can provide a wealth of information about the area and the critters in it.
Bad man indeed..........I'm a harmless, likeable, little fuzz-ball with an only slightly twisted mind.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on April 28, 2007, 07:11 AM:
Tim, I'd get as familiar as you can with the area before hunting season. Topo maps, Google Earth, driving the roads, hiking the trails, and talking with anyone who might have hunted the area or know the area well. Flying the area might be money well spent to get an overview of the land. Ranchers, loggers, or like the fellow Koko mentioned, who spend lots of time in the area can really help narrow down the number of places elk like to hang and save you countless hours of scouting. Some info you get might be worthless, but you might get a hot tip also.
During the rut is a prime time to locate elk before hunting season. Bulls are bugling, which makes them much easier to locate along with the cows they are chasing. The heat of the summer is a tough time to actually see elk. They lay in the shade all day and move at night. So don't get discouraged if you see few if any elk during the hot months.
This sounds like a tough area (from what Koko described) with few elk scattered far and wide. even in good elk areas, elk can be difficult to find. Don't get discouraged and keep after it.
Good and luck and have fun!
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on April 28, 2007, 08:13 AM:
Sorry to hear the news, Tim.
I feel your pain.
I have heard rumors of elk in the Mt. Graham area.
I've called coyotes in the foothills . Never ran across any sign.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on April 28, 2007, 08:35 AM:
Congrats on the tag;
Be prepared for a 5 mile journey with 80lbs on the back... or get one of Vic's horses ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Start with the Wildlife manager for the district... they are a wealth of info;
if you can find the general area they are in, in early october, you should hear bugles (assuming there are bulls in the area) that will give you some general direction....
Keep in mind they are very nomadic animals... one of their steps is 4 of yours...
Have fun...
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 28, 2007, 12:28 PM:
Sly,
You don't understand. I live in a Mexican Border town. The local gym is filled with twentysomething Latina hard bodies. The wife would rather I hung out in strip clubs as strippers tend to be uglier, and dress less revealing than the girls at the local gym.
Rich,
Mt Graham was my original thought ( On a clear day, I can see the observatory from where I'm sitting now, over 100 miles away ) But after looking at the maps, I'm thinking more of heading towards Duncan.
The problem will be driving past all of those good coyote stands between here and there with out getting distracted. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
quote:
I'm a harmless, likeable, little fuzz-ball with an only slightly twisted mind.
Yeah right, And tomorrow I can expect to hear that the Pope has converted to Islam?
How much does an average cow weigh? How much meat do I need to make freezer room for? What are the hides like? Are they better to have the fur on or off?
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 28, 2007, 12:36 PM:
Congrats Tim
Im just jealous as hell , havent been drawn in az over ten years of tryin.
from what Ive been told gettin a whippin might be easier but I still want to do it. maybe going out of state to take one next year. Good luck and good hunting
PM
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 28, 2007, 12:46 PM:
Paul,
I'd always heard the same thing, which was a reason that I put in my first time for hunts with only a few tags. I thought I'd build up points for a few years, then put in for an area with lots of Elk.
At least I didn't get drawn for Bighorn too!
It should be a fun hunt, I'm always up for learning something new!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2007, 02:05 PM:
Paul, that's why it is my opinion that preference points are a cruel joke. You could go another ten years and Tim might get drawn in five? It should either be completely random, or should be issued in order, first come, first served, including nonresidents.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 28, 2007, 04:13 PM:
I agree Leonard ,the pionts dont seem to help me at all I just apply and wait for notification of not being drawn again. It seems I would have a better chance if I was a non resident.
PM
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on April 28, 2007, 06:03 PM:
Tim, I assuming your AZ elk are roughly the same size as our ID elk. An average cow will yield more meat than a spike bull and a good sized cow as much as a raghorn bull. Depending on bullet placement, and how much you trim in the field and at home, an average elk will give you roughly 150-200 lbs. of packaged meat.
Elk hide makes some of the best leather you can get if you need something made of leather. A tanned elk hide with the hair on looks good thrown over a couch.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 28, 2007, 06:33 PM:
Holy Chit! That's a lot of meat!!!
How do they butcher? Pretty much the same cuts as in cattle?
Should I hang him to age for any time? How long is best?
Will I need to add beef suet like I did with Eastern Whitetails?
After the shot, what do I need to do to best prepare the meat?
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on April 28, 2007, 07:08 PM:
I always take all the bones out of the meat at butchering time and trim off EVERYTHING that doesn't look right to me. That includes any excess elk fat and the outer "skin" of dried meat after cooling.
I may not get as much meat after butchering as some, but when I'm done its 100% lean, clean, good looking meat. Virtually all of my elk makes it home in quarters and hangs that way for 3-7 days depending on the weather. I've cut them up after just a couple days and really can't tell the difference between that and elk that hangs a week.
I haven't gutted an elk in 15 years. We use the "gutless" method and get the hide off right away. As soon as a quarter comes off it goes right into a good quality meat bag for packing out. An elk hide insulates body heat like crazy and I'm a firm believer in getting the hide off right away.
We usually add 8-10% fresh beef suet to the hamburger meat when grinding it up.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 29, 2007, 07:25 AM:
We always 1/4 the elk right where it lays. You'll need 4 quality meat bags. Put each hind 1/4 in a seperate bags, both front 1/4's in one bag, and all the loose meat in one bag. There's 4 loads to carry out, and if you cut the antlers off, they can be carried on the pack with the loose meat, since that will be the lightest pack. We skin one side of the elk and take all the meat off, then simply roll the elk over and then skin that side and remove meat. You won't need a saw for any cutting! You can hang each loaded bag in a tree to continue cooling while you work. Once you have the elk deboned, it's time to start packin', while you're packing out, the rest of the meat is left hanging cooling.
I add 15-20% pork trim to my burger. Be sure to trim all fat from the elk meat, including the silver. Try to keep as much hair off of the meat as possible. I butcher and wrap when I get the chance. I do think that aged meat is usually more tender, but I don't make it a point to age any of it.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2007, 08:02 AM:
In other words, Tim. It's a big job, especially if you are alone. You need to carefully evaluate the places you encounter an animal, pack horse or not. You're looking at a lot of work, once he's on the ground. If you find an animal down a steep brush choked canyon; that downhill had better be heading toward your truck, or you might want to reconsider your options. Well, your mountains are not as bad as some others are for climbing, but it's still something to think about. One thing I really believe, having seen bulls in other states, those in Arizona compare very favorably.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 29, 2007, 06:34 PM:
Congrats and condolences Tim, Elk are surprisingly easy to hunt, if you draw a tag during the rut, but the hunt you have drawn....whew, gonna be a tough one my friend.
I drew an archery bull tag in unit 27 this year, one of the best units for quantity and quality bulls in the state, but it's during sept,and the bulls are easily called in with a cow call. Your rifle hunt in oct,is going to be pure hunting, I wish you luck.
If you want some company on any scouting trips, let me know,and I'll take a run up there with you. Mt Graham is exactly where I'd start looking for them too, one long twisty road to the top, and a lot of rough country.
Buenos Suerta Amigo:)
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 29, 2007, 06:48 PM:
Do the cows hang together all year?
If I can locate areas that the bulls bugle in September, shouldn't that be the home territory for a group of cows?
Or do Elk wander from place to place with no "Home" territory?
Posted by KevinKKaller (Member # 559) on April 29, 2007, 10:04 PM:
Congrats Tim
I grew up in Benson and have hunted the grams for bear and deer
I have seen the herd of elk on the grams 3 times
The rummer is the herd migrated from 27 south then west to the grams
I am not much on writing on a pc so if you would like a llitle directions I would gladly talk you over a map and let you know wear thay wear 1 1/2 years ago dering fall bear season.
Noth west of the abservatory thear is a fire look out post That is a good start
If the hunt is erly oct (First week or two) The bulls should still be with the cows.
Good Luck Kevin
Posted by Nahuatl (Member # 708) on April 30, 2007, 06:39 AM:
Sounds to me like the camp out's cook is going to be otherwise busy for the month of October this year???
Tim, is this a real elk hunt? or an excuse to run around in the woods with a rifle? Will "any" elk do it for you? Or is this a chance to take one of those monster racks I saw in the Sportsman's Warehouse in Avondale? If you apply for a tag for twenty more years, how many more will you draw?
I could tell you some long tales of two kinds of hunts - one where the guy waits forever for the points, finally draws a dream tag for Roosevelt Elk, and then tries to do it all on his own. He had fun in the woods but he never saw a thing.
And a different kind of hunt - another guy who bought a Desert Bighorn tag at an auction, started glassing a month in advance, scouted by airplane for the herd and by helicopter for "the" ram, hired a wrangler and a cook, and took a few friends to help with all the scut work. The second guy ended up in the record book.
Maybe you want to consider something in between those two extremes?
There's a big Brown Bear rug in my trophy room and I don't miss the money I spent one cent.
[ April 30, 2007, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Nahuatl ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 30, 2007, 09:54 AM:
Hey, if push comes to shove, we could have the campout on Mt Graham. Think of all the scouts and all the coolies?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 30, 2007, 11:04 AM:
Kevin called it right Tim, I'd head right up to the observatory come mid-september,and stumble around listening for any bull noises, that ought to give you an idea where they are,and from there locate bedding areas ect.
They are way more predictable than our deer,and if you can find where they are, where they bed and water, you have it made.
It's quite possible, that in early oct, they will still be with the cows, and making noise, so you might be luckier than you think. Lke everyone mentioned, it's after you pull the trigger that the work begins, thats a lot of animal to haul out of the hills, you'll be doing it in pieces....and making several trips:)
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 30, 2007, 04:11 PM:
Nahuatl,
Don't worry about me. The Huntmaster's campout is my #1 priority.
I can hunt for elk before or after the campout.
This is more of an "Any Elk will do" hunt.
I don't know where I'd hang the antlers if I got a bull. Any idea of how much a shoulder mount would cost?
I'd be happy with something young and tender. I'm getting easy to please as I get older, a Standing rib roast in the smoker and a 12 pack of beer make for about as much Saturday night excitement as I can take!
Leonard, that may not bee a good place to hold a campout. I keep hearing that the Apache don't care for Crackers on their sacred Mountain!
Vic, Do you know how to work an Elk call?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 30, 2007, 04:27 PM:
How do you blow an elk call?? Simple; just blow a lone howl in reverse.
Also......you might as well start concocting a few quarts of 'Elk Mist'. I still stand by my prediction that misting will be the next 'thing' for the herbivore hunters.
Posted by KevinKKaller (Member # 559) on April 30, 2007, 05:07 PM:
Tim The "estras Chirps" Should be really productive that time of year.
It is basicly a long wavoring cow call
Take 2 or 3 E.L.K. cow calls toned diffrently so you can sound like a small band of elk will intrest cows and bulls. If thay are still bugoling when you are thear just wistol no grunts or chuckols I ran them off 1 time doing that.
Elk primaraly yous thear nose I have been seen by elk and thay will just walk around BUT THAY WILL ONLY SMELL YOU 1 TIME befor leving the area.
It is esier to get to them from the north side at the edge of Thatcher head south thear are plenty of water tanks and streems and deep canyons for them.
Best of luck
Kevin
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 30, 2007, 07:40 PM:
Shoulder mount will run ya $500 plus!
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on May 01, 2007, 04:21 PM:
Kokopelli,
I was getting to that question, Just hadn't put it to the keyboard just yet.
Has anyone used scents to attract elk?
I know that they work great with Eastern Whitetails. I used them for years before moving to Arizona.
But how do Elk respond to urines? Do they create scrapes like deer? Are there other scents that they find attractive?
Posted by KevinKKaller (Member # 559) on May 01, 2007, 07:00 PM:
Cabelas and sportsmans ***** elk urins. I have never yoused them but I asume thay work.
The last elk I had mounted in flag cost right at $1000. He delivered to Tucson
Yes the bulls maks scrapes Thay can tear a sapling up prity good too
Good Luck
Kevin
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on May 01, 2007, 08:24 PM:
Tim, your scents for elk are, in my opinion, more cover scents than anything else... with whitetails you could induce scraping, or standing around with scents. I have not experienced this with elk.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on May 02, 2007, 05:10 AM:
How good is their olfactory perception?
How far will they travel to investigate a smell?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 02, 2007, 09:17 AM:
Tim, I'm thinking that the mist would have the same application for elk as it does for Higgens with coyotes. A sensory overload thing that COULD bring you a few extra moments in a shifting breeze.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on May 02, 2007, 03:30 PM:
Tim,email your address to me and i will send you one of the little horn calls for free.You can do the cow call on it with no problem.Just blow air into it and slide your teeth forward and let off the air.If,Kokopelli can call in a pot bellied pig with one,i see you having no problem calling in an elk with it.
Kokopelli,i still enjoy looking at those pictures.Thanks
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on May 02, 2007, 05:49 PM:
Kokopelli,
I wasn't thinking of holding them, but just attracting them.
In the mornings, warm air rises, and typical breezes flow uphill.
I was thinking that if I ran a line of scents across the mouth of a brushy draw that I expect hold bedded Elk, it might help to draw them out into the open, to an area that I was watching.
Has anyone ever experimented with the use of scents on Elk?
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0