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Author
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Topic: Coyote Killing Contest Prompts Howls
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 11, 2007 10:28 AM
By MATTHEW BROWN
AP
BAKER, Mont. (Jan. 11) - The barren buttes surrounding this small ranching town will offer scant places for coyotes to hide this weekend as hunters converge for a "calling" contest to see who can shoot the most coyotes.
Most states have few if any restrictions on killing coyotes, said the president of a club that connects hunters with ranchers who are trying to rid their land of the animals.
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Part predator control, part economic development ploy, the annual event began five years ago in a bid to pique outside interest in Baker via a $6,000 purse funded by entrance fees, local businesses and the Baker Chamber of Commerce and Agriculture.
While organizers see success in the event's growth, the increasing popularity of such contests is prompting a backlash from animal rights groups and even some hunters, who contend the events trivialize the sport by turning it into a cash-fueled spectacle.
For the coyote, the hunts reflect the lowly place the animal still holds across the American West. Even as a debate rages between state and federal officials over whether its high profile cousin, the gray wolf, should be removed from the endangered species list, the coyote is stuck with the label "varmint", to be killed on sight.
Most states have few if any restrictions on killing the animal, said Stephen Price, president of coyoteclub.org, which connects hunters with ranchers hoping to eliminate the animals from their land.
In Baker, a town of about 1,700 tucked against the North Dakota border, supporters of this weekend's contest say it will deliver a much-needed jolt to the area's economy, drawing some 180 participants from as far away as Chicago and Seattle. They also say fewer coyotes means fewer livestock killings.
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Bush's New Iraq Plan Faces Defiant CongressLetter Reveals Antarctic Explorer's Last DaysFlorida Trailer Park OKs Megabucks Sellout'Munsters' Star Yvonne De Carlo Dies at 84James Brown's Body Still Not Buried"I don't know why God put them on this Earth," said Jerrid Geving, a hunter who organizes the Baker event. "If He put them on this world to give us sport for hunting, maybe. But I'll tell you what, they do a lot of damage to livestock."
Despite widespread support for that sentiment, not everyone agrees contest hunts are the answer.
Randy Tunby, a sheep rancher in nearby Plevna, Mont., has turned down requests from contest participants to hunt on his land. The results of such hunts, he said, are spotty at best.
"I'm not saying it's not a good thing to do; we ourselves call coyotes. But if you have problems with coyotes getting into your livestock, it's going to be haphazard if people coming into the contest get those," Tunby said.
Tunby prefers the services of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's predator control program. According to USDA records, its Wildlife Services division shoots, poisons, traps or otherwise destroys about 80,000 coyotes a year on private and public lands nationwide.
John Shivik, a research biologist with the services' National Wildlife Research Center, said any effort to reduce livestock damage must specifically target those animals causing problems. Contest hunts might miss the worst offenders, he said.
Coyotes caused an estimated $47 million in damage to the cattle industry in 2005, according to the USDA. Sheep losses topped $10 million in 2004.
Groups including the Humane Society of the United States and Predator Defense say neither private hunts nor public agency killings offer a real solution because of the coyote's ability to rapidly reproduce.
"You kill some coyotes and six months later it's as if you didn't kill any at all. What are they accomplishing other than just being barbaric?" asked Brooks Fahy, executive director of Predator Defense.
In Montana, coyotes can be hunted 24 hours a day, 12 months a year, with no limits. That provides out-of-state hunters with ample "trigger time" not available in their home states, said Geving, who already has bagged six coyotes this winter around Baker.
Price and others describe a booming interest in coyote hunting, with an estimated 500 "calling contests" nationwide and more added every year. They get their name because hunters howl and make distress calls to mimic prey, attracting coyotes. Many, Price said, are conducted on the sly - invitation-only events meant to avoid the ire of animal rights groups.
Baker promotes its event with fliers and on the Internet. Even protesters are welcome, said Karol Zachmann, president of the Baker chamber of commerce.
"Actually, that does good for us if they come and meet us and find out we're not all that bad," she said.
To some hunters, turning the challenge of coyote hunting into a contest with large sums of money at stake defies long-standing traditions of the sport. Jim Posewitz, a leading voice in the field of hunters' ethics, says that to purists, the contests violate the basic tenet of "fair chase" - the notion that hunting is a private struggle between predator and prey.
"I don't think hunting is a contest between human beings," said Posewitz, a biologist who spent 32 years with the Montana wildlife agency before founding the Orion Hunters Institute. "We like to think it's a more meaningful relationship that we have with wildlife than simply viewing them as a competition between people."
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted January 11, 2007 11:40 AM
"You kill some coyotes and six months later it's as if you didn't kill any at all."
Yes, yes yes. love it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted January 11, 2007 12:31 PM
Coyote calling contests. To be honest i don't really care for them. Like mentioned above the contest dose'nt really take care of the problem coyotes.In an area that i go to to call coyotes i have asked most of the ranchers if the coyotes are that much of a problem. The answers i got back was no by most of them and one rancher replied by saying kill them all. I found out later that the rancher that said kill them all dose'nt even raise cattle, he rents his pasture out to someone else. Some of the ranchers said that if they did have a problem with the coyotes it was just one or two and they would have the state trapper and aireal gunner takecare of those two. The area i call in has been haveing contests for the last five years and the winning number is around 6-7 coyotes with a total of 30 coyotes taken. And there are around 4-5 contests in this area every year. Before the contests started i would see anywhere from 8-10 coyotes in a day to 30-40 by the end of the week. On an average i could call in and take a coyote on every fourth stand made, most of the coyotes taken where young of the year. Now when i call this area i see maybe 12-15 coyotes in a weeks time and the ones i do call in after maybe 8-12 stands are all older coyotes and much wiser to the call.
Anyway like i said at the beginning i don't care for the contests and nothing is gained by haveing them except for a group of callers getting together and haveing a good time and proveing who is top dog for the year, which means nothing to me...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted January 11, 2007 12:38 PM
TA17 are these areas in MINN?
[ January 11, 2007, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted January 11, 2007 12:52 PM
coyotewhacker; no these contests are not in Mn..
There is a town in Minn. that does have a contest, but its not a calling contest. This contest has open rules, you just go out and try and shoot as many as you can in two days weither its by calling, hunt and stalk or two man drives and according to state laws. No snowmobiles or chaseing with pick-ups, or hounds...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted January 11, 2007 01:53 PM
I think coyote contest are terrible and barbaric. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) That's why I'll be competing on one this weekend ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Dsmith7136
Knows what it's all about
Member # 732
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posted January 12, 2007 12:30 PM
Okay, I’m going to jump in here with both feet and play devil’s advocate for a minute just to give you guys another point of view to consider, though I don’t expect many of you will agree with it.
Before you go all “Bubba” on me, let me preface this whole thing by stating that I’m no PETA Freak, Bunny Hugger, Animal Rights Idiot, or anything else of that nature. Nor am I even remotely sympathetic to their philosophies, causes or agendas. In fact, I’m vehemently opposed to all of them; they’re founded in gnorance, outright lies and blatant hypocrisy, and I’ve published numerous editorials over the years condemning all of them in defense of hunting.
I’ve been hunting and fishing since I was old enough to zip my own fly and I’m sneaking up on 70 now, but I’m no fan of coyote calling contests, big buck tournaments or any other competitive hunting/fishing events - including trophy or “tape-measure” hunting.
They create a horribly distorted and incredibly destructive image of what traditional, fair chase hunting and game conservation are all about. Killing animals for fame, fortune, celebrity status, useless titles (do you really care that Joe Blow is the Grand Master Prairie Dog Champion of the World?), bogus awards and big cash prizes portrays us and what we do in the worst possible light to the millions of non-hunters who have no clue what our real purpose is or what our responsibilities to our game herds and flocks are. It’s evident from the number of hunting competitions, high-dollar canned hunts and closed-fence trophy hunts these days that a lot of us have lost sight of it too.
Hunting isn’t, nor was it ever meant to be, about ego-gratification, score keeping and phony, grandiose titles. Shooting animals for the hell of it on one hand and then trying to convince the rest of the world on the other that we hold our game animals in the highest regard reeks of the same kind of hypocrisy the PETA freaks practice.
The only reason sport hunting even continues to exist at all today is because we (hunters) provide a service as game managers and keepers of the nation’s herds and flocks. Beyond that, we are of little use to society. We can’t expect anyone to respect us if we demonstrate such transparent disrespect for the animals we supposedly revere - and that includes coyotes. It’s one thing to hunt for food, personal challenge, or of necessity; it’s quite another to kill for shits and giggles and then broadcast the results for prize money - which is exactly how these contests appear to the rest of the world.
Did you guys not see the avalanche of outrage from the national hunting community that accompanied the announcement of the WHA’s World Deer Hunting Championship last summer? It was overwhelmingly opposed and rejected by every major, minor, national and international hunting club, association and conservation organization in the book, and hundreds of thousands of Joe Sixpack hunters like you and me. Prospective corporate sponsors pulled their support in sheer panic. The lesson should have been obvious.
I respectfully submit the written works of Finn Aagard, Jim Posewitz, Valerius Geist and other highly regarded hunting conservationists and animal behaviorists should be required reading for all of us. If we’re not careful how we represent ourselves and our passion for hunting, we’ll lose it to popular opinion. And we’ll have deserved it.
After all, this isn’t about giving in to political correctness; it’s about being smarter than those who continually search for excuses to get rid of us. Let’s not give them any. Have your contests if you like; just don’t expect the non-hunting public to believe you’re performing some noble deed on their behalf. They ain’t buying it. Neither am I - and I’m on your side.
Respectfully,
Dennis
[ January 12, 2007, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Dsmith7136 ]
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Beware the man who shoots just one gun...
Posts: 44 | From: Loveland, CO | Registered: Nov 2005
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blakyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1064
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posted January 13, 2007 10:20 AM
[and I’m on your side.]
Can't be.When one group of hunters go against another group,because it doesn't fit the way they hunt or believe,there just helping the anti's put another nail in the coffin of all hunting.Look at MI,the hound hunters there sided with the HSUS to get bobcat trapping banned,do you think the HSUS give a rats*** about hound hunters,it won't be long when there in there sights,but who will back them?I doubt trappers will,and some other ethical hunters won't back them either,then when the hound hunters are gone,then the sights will be set on a different hunting group,but hound hunters and trappers won't support them,because,after all they weren't supported.The anti's know this,that's why it's important to the anti's to get hunters bashing each other,it makes there tactics easier,especially using terms like "fair chase" or "ethical",like I've always said,those two terms only fit if you hunt naked,using only a rock,and using a rock might be stepping out of bounds.
[**QUOTE:Did you guys not see the avalanche of outrage from the national hunting community that accompanied the announcement of the WHA’s World Deer Hunting Championship last summer? It was overwhelmingly opposed and rejected by every major, minor, national and international hunting club, association and conservation organization in the book, and hundreds of thousands of Joe Sixpack hunters like you and me. Prospective corporate sponsors pulled their support in sheer panic. The lesson should have been obvious.**]
Whether I believe in it or not,it has shown me,that we are diveded more than I thought,no wonder bear trapping in Maine was banned a year ago,and why hunting and trapping are in danger of being more regulated in areas of MN and Maine because of wolves,lynx,bald eagles exist in these states.It also shows me that getting a hunting season on wolves is a pipe dream in the lower 48,when the need arises down the road.It's shown me how many other forms of hunting and trapping are truly endanger in the future,not by anti's,but from those within our ranks.
[ January 13, 2007, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: blakyote ]
Posts: 36 | From: N.WI | Registered: Dec 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 13, 2007 10:48 AM
"The only reason sport hunting even continues to exist at all today is because we (hunters) provide a service as game managers and keepers of the nation’s herds and flocks."
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Wrong! The only reason that hunting, fishing and trapping have not yet been banned is simply because of all the big bucks that those license's bring in. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted January 13, 2007 11:40 AM
Well said Rich. Just like here in Minn. its big money for the state.
I said earlier i don't care for contests but that don't mean they are a badd thing. In my state i do what i can to help support all the hunting groups even if i don't agree with some of there practices. I also feel that a majority of hunters are doing the same here in my state trying to get along and work together. But the other day i was deeply disturbed by what i read on the P.M. site in the Greatwhite north heading, topic: Mn. coyote hunter killed.
I don't have access to this site so i sent a E-mail to Randy Buker and asked if he could post it for me, i have not heard back from Randy B. or have i seen my letter posted. I call coyotes and i also hunt them, i see no difference in what tactic i use as long as i get the same results. But the guys on P.M. that live in Mn. and call coyotes believe they are above every one else.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 13, 2007 11:58 AM
Dsmith, I also think you are misguided. Living my life, with my attitudes conforming to public opinion is abhorrent to me.
The first thing you must realize is that these people are never going to be satisfied until they completely castrate you and me. Forget about tolerance and mutual respect, they want us doing things their way, and they aren't going to back down until they have won.
As has been pointed out before, the opposition enters into negotiations, and never gives up anything, they always win. Maybe small victories, but they start adding up, and that's where we are at, right now. They think that they need to ALLOW us to do what we enjoy, give permission, and set standards. They use words and concepts. Ethical; to whom? Fair chase; to whom? Cruel; in who's opinion?
Yes, it's the old game of divide and conquer, and although I believe that you mean well, you are falling into a trap, boxed into a moral corner, cave in and begin to accept their version of reality.
As previously mentioned, they get hound hunters against the trappers, and bow hunters against gun hunters, and pretty soon, things are so fractionalized and the various groups are so resentful, that it's impossible to work together for the common good.
If you don't like coyote contests, it would be far better for you to discuss it with your Minister than to give aid and comfort to what is in reality, the enemy. I would define the enemy as someone that wants to take away YOUR liberty, while leaving their belief system intact.
In this Country, we are fast approaching a herd mentality, which the anti's define as a "democracy". Well, democracy does not mean taking away rights from other citizens. It means that we are allowed to do things as we wish, within the law. Moral outrage from the bunny hugger set is a fact of life. In reality, they presume to dictate terms, define acceptable behavior and attempt to shape public opinion; and you are a victim, my friend.
There is no reason to feel shame for what we do. If you don't like gambling, refrain. If you don't like contest hunting, don't enter. But, never forget, we are your allies. You need us as much as we need you, so don't stab us in the back. It should be a simple thing to recognize a friend from a socialist. Wake up.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted January 14, 2007 06:57 AM
TA17 The reason I asked about your "ranches" is Minn is alot different small land tracts, feedlots etc. Our west you have more predation on calves because you have open range pastures next to great coyote habitat and you have more loss of livestock than in the Midwest and eastern US. Sheep are far greater loss than calves, but you still get losses and the high the coyote density's the more of a problem they can be. With high cattle prices ranchers out west have a low tolerance for coyotes.
As far as calling contest I have no problem with them, as many raise money and split half with charitable orgs and it is a good time for coyote callers to get together and visit. It also helps gain interest in something with low fur value as well. Are they a true control tool? No as many are 1-2 day affairs and have weather conditions that can really limit coyote take, along with many having callers of many calibers in them.I will state I am by no means an "expert" caller myself, but I do ok.
The protest will go on, they use the monetary part as a guise to end hunting and trapping they have done this for years!!!! Sounds better than trying to say "hunting is barbaric,with a response of but we do it to feed out families". People need to be educated and know that calling,trapping are what keeps many predators in check and that table fair is not a concern, but limiting the number of predators for the benefit of all lesser species that many outdoorsman and wildlife watchers alike. They need to thank the ones that do predator control for maintaining a better balance for the betterment of all. Delta waterfowl has been a true champion of predator hunters and trappers with there testing on bird nesting success and failures with and without predator control. Far better than DU who doesn't want to stir the political pot on the subject matter.
We all will be under the public microscope and we need to combat the rhetoric with facts and make clear that what we do is a benefit to all people and species concerned. Many don't like monatary gain from any wildlife, but either way the money will change hands either from a value of furbearers or through taxes to control the top chain species. Trappers and callers do this know and in the past at no cost to the taxpayer, severly limit the ability of control and all taxpayers will pay a higher price.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 15, 2007 06:04 AM
DSmith: "Killing animals for fame, fortune, celebrity status, useless titles (do you really care that Joe Blow is the Grand Master Prairie Dog Champion of the World?), bogus awards and big cash prizes portrays us and what we do in the worst possible light to the millions of non-hunters who have no clue what our real purpose is or what our responsibilities to our game herds and flocks are."
Then throw away all the deer horns because not including horn measurements into the "useless titles" and "bogus awards" categories would be hypocrisy at it's finest.
Wildlife agencies across the United States, of which I work for one, cannot get an adequate doe harvest and are desperately seeking to find a way to get hunters to harvest more does.
The reason coyote calling contests were started in the first place was to create an "INCENTIVE" to kill coyotes. I'll be the first to tell you that coyote calling contests will never be a replacement for ADC trappers removing problem animals as those problems are occuring but there is also no question in my mind that these contest hunts help reduce the number of calf losses that occur. How do they do that? Most of the calf kills that occur are by mature territorial adult coyotes. Those coyotes have the strength, stamina, and courage to pull off killing healthy newborn calves. Younger coyotes seldom do. When mature adult coyotes are killed during recreational fur hunting season, those territorial adult coyotes will be replaced by younger less aggressive coyotes the following spring. Granted, most coyotes killed by recreational hunters are young of the year but there is still a pretty good percentage of coyotes that are older mature coyotes which helps maintain a younger healthier population.
Now does that sound like a contradiction to my statement in a previous thread about recreational coyote hunting being a replacement for someone removing problem animals as the problems are occuring? It's not! I didn't say recreational hunting was a replacement for ADC trappers, and I didn't say it was a cure all but it helps in situations where adult coyotes are removed in historical problem areas and that's a fact.
Currently, with low fur prices, there is no incentive for coyote hunting which creates a stagnant, older population of coyotes more prone to killing calves. Coyote calling contests provide the incentive for coyote harvest in the same manner that bragging rights for nice horns provides an incentive for deer harvest. Some guys within our department would like to see a situation where deer hunters had to fill their doe tags first due to the LACK OF INCENTIVE for killing does. Remove the horns and tell me where the incentive is for deer harvest? There's not enough meat hunters now to kill the does that need to be harvested.
We have had mange sweep through and kill the surplus coyotes prior to the popularity of coyote calling contests. SOME ALTERNATIVE HUH????
Save me the "MORAL HIGH GROUND" speech on coyote calling contests when you contrast that with natures population control methods or territorial adult coyotes ripping the flank out of a new born calf.
May coyote calling contests last forever. Pass the ballistic tips please...
Dennis, I respect your opinion but in my mind, coyote calling contest participants hold the high moral ground on this issue, not you. These contests are helping keep a healthier more robust YOUNGER coyote population and helping to reduce calf losses in situations where/when territorial adult coyotes are removed.
~SH~
[ January 15, 2007, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 15, 2007 06:35 AM
Dsmith,
I'll give you an example on another board. Some other "ethical hunters" ie;members on that board. Commenced to bash hound hunters. As "inhumane" hmmm.
As an x-hound hunter[thats how I got started onto predators]. I sent back a scathing responce, to the "eithical hunters" post. Most all of my reply was crossed out, by a person with power. That fried my carcass, to say the least.
The way I see hunting is, if "it's" legal. Then no big whoop to me, how anyone kills a coyote. When other hunters bash other "legal hunters". Then that tends to rub me the wrong way.
These "ethical hunters" turn my gut. Oh, lets not forget animal suffering. Apparently they turn a blind eye to how predators take out their prey. I just give back to coyotes, some of their own medicine. Beside their bashing. They "ALWAYS" make a "clean"..."quick" kill, yah...ok . Insert vomit [here].
Do I revere coyote[s]? No. Do I admire them? Yes.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted January 15, 2007 08:24 AM
Lust, Greed, and the competitive need.
I think some people are just wired differently. Some love competition and some hate it. Most that hate it do so because they know that they don't stand a chance of winning. I like winning. I compete in several different "sports" and have a competitive drive. I don't care if it's marbles or monopoly, team roping or golf, I want to win. Just a personal thing, but I think alot of guys are the same. Some aren't. If we didn't care, we wouldn't keep score in a golf game, or time a team roping run. I have alot of respect for the guys that enter calling contests. It shows me that they are willing to put their "internet reputations" on the line. I don't care if they win or lose, but if they have the balls to be there it shows me that they believe that they are good enough to be there. That shows character IMHO. I know there are guys that are good enough that don't compete in contests for various reasons, but I think for the most part they are afraid they won't do good and will be judged poorly for it. I think that if your ego is that fragile then you probably shouldn't compete (in anything). I go to a few contests, and have placed at some, but have also got thrashed at some. So what. I go down swinging (or shooting as the case may be). I really like most of the contest formats and it has been great to meet all the people I have at contests and have got to hunt some new country. It's actually fun for me to go to someone else's home turf and see how you hold up. I like contests and hope to see them continue.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 15, 2007 09:31 AM
Let's not give all those bass tournaments a free pass, Cal. I do like the comment about keeping score on the golf course.
Memo to Scott: good post, but for the sake of accuracy, most of those buck deer usually carry antlers, not horns. I like the idea of qualifying for a buck tag by shooting a doe, first.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 15, 2007 08:49 PM
Ok Leonard, point taken. I meant antlers when I said horns. I was referring to the phrase "horn hunting".
You have to wonder how many "antlerless deer" would be harvested if not for the antlers.
United we stand, divided we fall!
~SH~
[ January 15, 2007, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
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