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Author
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Topic: Hunting downwind
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted December 30, 2006 09:27 AM
When a coyote comes in from downwind do you think it relates the distress sounds AND human scent to something to eat? I have in past years tended to hunt into the wind, and give away the downwind side when I'm hunting solo because I can't watch 360. I now think giving away the downwind side is a real mistake. Animals that come from that direction are dangerous.
Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2006 10:07 AM
Yeah, I suppose some of them could be?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 30, 2006 01:57 PM
I don't necessarily think that they relate the two as anything but food and occasionally danger, but I do agree that giving away the downwind as your default position is a mistake. After all, if there is one thing most of us can agree to here, it's that coyotes have the innate ability to get downwind of you. If you know that they're likely to go there, and it's the only variable in their behavior that you can predect and anticipate with some certainty, why ignore it rather than exploiting it to your advantage?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted December 30, 2006 05:47 PM
I agree with Cdog, since they like to get downwind, why not set up so that you can see downwind. They will likely end up there anyways, so why not watch there?
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 30, 2006 07:03 PM
Yep, coyotes will try to get downwind where they can get a whiff of ya. Not always of course, but MOST of the time they will.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted December 31, 2006 05:01 AM
I think a coyote coming in from downwind has evil intent. Has anyone you know been attacked while calling and bitten by a coyote?
Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 31, 2006 05:05 AM
I've never had cause to be concerned about a coyote coming from any direction. They're simply not that confrontational, especially when they realize who or what you are. Pure cowardice.
On the other hand, coons are a hoot. From the moment they hear that caller going, they have one thing on their mind: kick your ass. Fire for effect.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 31, 2006 06:28 AM
I had one dive into the bush and hit my back once, scared the shit out of both of us. I've had them jump over my legs, and run up and stand beside me looking at the caller.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted December 31, 2006 07:33 AM
took some kids out and set them behind some bushes so thier movement wouldnt be detected and about 5 mins in Im looking out at the meadow in front of me the kids were back and to right. they sat and obsereved as two coyotes stood behind me watching me. a little creepy but i dont feel they were a threat. I often wonder how many critters see me that I never see.Lions are about the only thing in these parts that cause me concern.
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 31, 2006 08:04 AM
The lion I called, came directly in from downwind.
Had my brother not seen it, and scared it away, I believe I'd have been doomed.
I give the downwind much respect, animals that come from that direction really are dangerous.
And I look there for opportunity too. Around here it's easy for a predator to end up downwind, and since I know that's part of (some of) thier plans, we make it part of our plans.
Hunting alone, I prefer a crosswind, so I can watch my side, and not leave my back un-guarded.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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tooslow
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1063
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posted December 31, 2006 08:56 AM
depends on the velocity of the wind, have you ever been sighting in your rifle while observing wind direction in your emediate area only to see a different direction of the flag or ribbon only a 100yds away--wind is not always predictable.
What you think is downwind may not be the case.
Posts: 28 | From: Hesperia, Ca. | Registered: Dec 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 31, 2006 08:56 AM
I wonder what would cause folks to believe a predator to be more dangerous when it comes in from down-wind side?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Dusty Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1031
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posted December 31, 2006 09:00 AM
Good question. Last week, I was downwind of my caller and heard a coyote sneak up right along side me about three feet away adjacent to the bush I was using for cover. I didn't move at all. I was hoping he would not catch my scent and pop out in front of me, but !@%$#&* it didn't happen. Like the Teminator says "I'll be back". ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 346 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 31, 2006 09:52 AM
I'm getting the feeling that Gary has something specific on his mind. Normally, a coyote goes downwind, gets your scent, and runs off. I have heard that misting can delay this behavior, but it is not common that the animal will approach the hunter, or the source of the sound...coming from downwind.
Cats are a totally different situation, since they only wind up downwind by accident, in almost all cases. A lion sneaking up on you from downwind is your own fault, if you don't have sense enough to keep an eye on that direction. Not because of the lion, but because there are so many opportunities to shoot a coyote that sneaks in, unseen, downwind, from another direction.
Now, I don't want to disagree with what "tooslow" said, but he knows very well that watching "mist" drift downwind gives as good a clue as to exactly where the "downwind" is, much like wind flags at the range, only better....especially at night.
It would require a very bold coyote to approach a hunter from downwind, and his intent would not (probably) be to attack a human?
I recall a newspaper article that said a pair of coyotes tried to pull a rider from a horse, in Orange County, I believe? But, there are many that will tell you that deer and other big game cannot distinguish a rider, and consider what they are looking at to be a funny shaped horse. This fits very well with Rich Higgins and Tyler's description of doing the "ugly cow" and walking in plain view, in front of a coyote, who, in turn, does not distinguish the separate forms of the two people bent over, under a poncho; from range cattle.
But, anyway. What's the story, Nahuatl?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted December 31, 2006 01:46 PM
"Has anyone you know been attacked while calling and bitten by a coyote?"
Yes. But, I'm sure it was mistaken identity. Really don't know whether that one came from downwind or not. I really do not believe that it had identified a human before biting though.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
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posted January 01, 2007 06:44 AM
I think we need WileyE and Ed Sceery here for this discussion! hehehe
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Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 442 | From: Cottonwood,Az, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted January 01, 2007 07:44 AM
Leonard was right. There is a punchline to this thread for sure.
I've written up a longer version of the events of last Thursday for the club's newsletter, but here's the short version.
While hunting into the wind, standing up full height (I'm 6' 3"), my back against a tree, I was panning my vision right into a cactus forest and then left across and up a wash while my Bandit caller was playing a goat bleat about from the ground 15 yards in front of me. At the extreme left of my turn, in the very left corner of my eye, I caught a flash fur just as a coyote came in behind me from directly downwind, and attacked. It leaped straight for my throat. I raised my left arm at the last possible instant defensively and as I looked down its throat, the fangs closed on my tricep, just missing my neck. We were nose to nose. The weight of the flying coyote swung us both around, and thanks apparently to three tough layers of clothing, it never got a good grip, slipped off, and fell into the wash. I still had my shotgun gripped in my right hand. I raised and fired both barrels.
I hustled back to the truck and stripped to the waist. Though the teeth never made it through the material of my shirt or underclothes, I was left with four puncture wounds and some long scratches. I soaked the wound for 15 minutes in a veterinary sterilant I carry in the truck, which I learned only later was the exact right thing to do for both the bite and possibly rabies. I actually hunted the rest of the day before returning home to figure out what to do next.
I've learned a few other things about animal bites and rabies in the last few days. LA County Health, CA Department of Health Services, and Lancaster Animal Control are to be thanked for their help and information, and they were able to run preliminary tests on the coyote before the long holiday weekend. Negative and No rabies. Even though the coyote never actually punctured the shirt, rabies is saliva borne, so if it had been rabid, the vaccine is reccommended.
I've got bruises around the bite mark today from being bitten so hard and it's still sore.
The coyote was a two-year old female and otherwise, in good health, except for her stopping two rounds of #4 buckshot.
I've been out hunting several times since Thursday, but I'm setting up a little more crosswind, keeping a better eye on my flank, and probably paying better attention. It is my contention that the coyote that attacked heard the sound of a distressed goat and responded hungrily all the time smelling me and thinking of food. When it attacked, it was not afraid of me at all.
[ January 01, 2007, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Nahuatl ]
Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 01, 2007 09:04 AM
That's an amazing story, Gary! Almost (too) hard to believe? I checked, and it's January 1st, not April 1st.
I was attacked by a coyote, once, but I was chasing him in deep snow and he turned and charged me. He definitely would have bitten me if not for the empty shotgun I was swinging, which broke it, (by the way), and it belonged to Pat. I probably owe him a cheap shotgun, but I was damned glad I had it.
You need to submit your story to a magazine, but (unfortunately) these days, if it didn't happen with someone videotaping it, it didn't happen.
Good hunting. LB
Lame joke follows: at least you didn't go wth the tourniquet?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 01, 2007 12:50 PM
Nahuatl - you are posting this for true?
With your ecaller 15 yards away, a coyote came in downwind and grabed you by the arm while you were standing up?
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
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posted January 01, 2007 01:06 PM
Gary,
I agree with Leonard. Great story and should be published. I'd get some good quality pictures of the wound to go with it and a few quotes from the doctor that looked at you.
By any chance did you get some pics of the coyote where it lay shot?
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The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 01, 2007 02:13 PM
I've had coyotes jump on me four different times while calling. I was always sitting on the ground which placed them at my eye level and they were probably more shocked than I was. They never attempted to bite before they bailed.
I can't possibly imagine what would motivate a coyote to jump almost 6 feet off the ground at the throat of a tall man especially if the sounds were not originating from him. A puzzlement.
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 01, 2007 02:15 PM
Tripp is right. Get photos and medical documentation and submit them to Ralph Lermayer. I'll bet he would run with them.
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted January 02, 2007 11:48 AM
Rich, I figured there would be some similar experience out there somewhere. I've been runover twice before myself. After checking around here and there, I'm beginning to think this is a rather unique occurance because I was not hand calling and I was standing full-height. And replaying it over and over in my mind, the coyote leapt straight for my throat. I'm relatively convinced the coyote came in on my smell. It was a blatant attack.
If you've seen my posts, you know I always take pictures. As for having one of the coyote where it lay, sorry. I hustled back to the truck dragging everything with me as quick as possible to examine the damage and treat the wound with benzalkonium chloride. And I also figured some over-eager contract doctor at urgent care would be quick to pull the trigger with rabies post-exposure phophylaxis. I wasn't eager to submit to that kind of treatment without consulting some real experts, who I eventually found at County Health, Health Services, and Animal Control, first. They deal with dog bites on a regular basis and quarantine or test the brains of offending animals routinely. Postponing a knee-jerk trip to the doctor and immediate treatment 24-hours was actually the prudent thing to do and it gave DHS the time they needed to run the preliminary tests. There's even a flow sheet for rabies treatment, and when you get to step #5, the chart says no rabies - no treatment. I hate going to the doctor anyway. Treatment now consists of 5 high-potency shots in the arm over a period of a month. I even got to talk to someone who had the shots recently at Animal Control after a Chihuahua attack.
I think I'll pass on the publication exposure too. I'm a private person, and Leonard's BB is the only place you'll see this posted past the club's newsletter. I think I'd like to remind all of you who hunt a lot for coyotes to be careful out there and leave it at that.
Don J, my club's hunts chairman, and I just spent New Year's eve and day hunting here in So Cal. He got to check out the marks on my arm first hand and that's about all the witnessing I can stand. He was the one to remark on all the bruising which appeared only later. We even hunted the same road and he saw where it all occurred. I took this picture the evening of the attack.
And after taking care of my arm back at the truck, I snapped this one of the bitch that bit me.
Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 02, 2007 12:27 PM
glad you are alright......never even thought about a coyote attacking.....I have had bobcats get real close, under 10 steps, looking me over and they had thier little tail just ah-twiching...Regards Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted January 02, 2007 04:47 PM
That right there was one hungry coyote, and apparently dumb too!!
On two occasions I've shot/shot at coyotes that were coming so hard and close that I'm sure if I didn't pull the trigger when I did, they were going to be in/on my lap, although I've never worried about one actually taking a bite once it realized what it was actually landing on!
And to think that coyote you shot actually jumped up to bite and the distress sound was no where near the intended target?
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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