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Krusty,
Your problems in getting fur down sounds to me a flaw in your method or approach. I have read intermittant text of your plight (if I may call it that). It seems to me that you should seek out a mentor for some visual, hands on training. That, in my opinion, would make a world of difference and help you on your way to become a more successful caller.

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Blow A Rhino

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Jay,

Plight would be a good term to use.

You are not the first to assume it's my methods, or approach, and in a way you are right.
But in a way you're wrong too.

I am actually lucky enough to have a memory like an elephant, I remember everything you guys have told me.
So I actually have more mentors than I can count.
I hear you, DAA and Bryan J, Rich Cronk and Wiley E, Jon ElPaso, NASA, Cal Taylor or Stretch Cobb, and so many others, giving me the advise that fits the moment I am in.

I also have been very fortunate to have a few different guys I could consider mentors, that have taken me out and taught me first hand.

My brother knows more than he thinks he knows, and has helped me to learn a lot about hunting in general.
NV Walt has taken the time to come all the way up here, and take my brother and I calling, twice. Teaching me that I wasn't doing so much wrong, as I am just up against a lot of obstacles.
Bearman Rick also has taught me a lot, the most important of all, is, that this pursuit of predators is not all that important. That I need to slow down, not try so hard, and not overkill every aspect of the game.
There are a few others and from each of them I gleened something that has put me that much closer to the end goal.

The single most important piece of advice I have been given yet, comes from Leonard, and I believe it holds more of the key to why I have yet to "put fur down".
Leonard told me, way back when I posted some photos of one of the areas we hunt, that he would not hunt country like that... to go where the terrain and landscape are more conducive to calling.
This last month of bear hunting (calling), in thick evergreen forest and overgrown clearcuts, has really driven this point home, deeply so.

We have been, finally, seeing some animals, it has confirmed that many of the times the birds "told on someone" in the past, they probably were not lying.
I believe the main thing "in the way" of putting fur down has been the forest and the terrain.
The big thing we are up against now that we have moved out of the timber, is other callers, who left the timber.
Then we still have some little things to work on, we're scouting out a whole new area, and learning how to move and pick stands in the open.

The hard part of it though, is that we now travel four times as far or more each way, and that means I can only go about one fourth as often.
Good thing grouse season is now open, and I have some other hunting to do besides calling coyotes.
I am not sure it's an even trade off, but even I can only beat my head against a brick wall for just so long. LOL

So that should pretty much cover my problem putting fur down, the rest of my problems are probably too many, and too complex, to go into here.
And besides, Leonard's "not a stickler for rules", but this thread is supposed to be about my problems putting down fur. lol

I'll tell ya what, if anyone can come up here, call and kill three coyotes over three days (no night hunting), in the timber I have been hunting, I'll eat the third one.

Krusty

[ September 05, 2004, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
 

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Posted by Randy Buker (Member # 134) on September 06, 2004, 05:32 AM:
 
Somebody get up there and kill those three coyotes!
 

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Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on September 06, 2004, 10:32 AM:
 
Krusty, hunt the landing areas and the tote roads in those timbers.

Also remember that your call is not carrying the same distance as it would in a cut over area or the sage country...

The sound bounces off of trees... I am sure you have been hunting to hear an elk or a deer walking, but have to look in a complete circle to actually find the souce of the sound... the same happens for predators...

Keep up the effort... It will pay off.... it is like that rock wall face.... it may take several attempts and strategy adjustments, but you know you will overcome when all the pieces of the puzzle come together....
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 06, 2004, 02:12 PM:
 

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What is Krusty's problem?

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For starters, you don't take advise worth a damn. Telling you how to hunt coyotes is about as useful as giving a free pass to the cathouse to a 17 year old boy, then telling him to save his virginity for his wedding night.

You are hearing the words, but they don't seem to be soaking in.

Get the hell out of those trees! Find someplace where you can see a coyote coming in. You can't call coyotes in a place that has no coyotes. Look around and find a Dairy farm, someplace close by, they are going to be cutting hay for that farm. Call those fields at first light.

Calling coyotes isn't a contest of who can call in the thickest stuff. Cripes, calling in thick timber is difficult for the most experienced guys, so leave the thick stuff to them and go call some open areas.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 06, 2004, 05:27 PM:
 
What he said.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 06, 2004, 07:02 PM:
 
Many years ago, a rancher issued a desperate plea. Coyotes were becoming a major problem and a large posse from one of the Clubs drove a couple hundred miles just to help the guy out.

There was a meeting and instructions. Teams fanned out far and wide, but had very little luck. Much later, in early morning darkness, one team picked up eyes; farm dogs in a pasture close to the house.

Come morning, no coyotes to show for it, but there was a pile of dead chicken parts lying in a nearby pasture.

After comparing notes and looking around, at the evidence; a Club delegation told the man that it was likely his dogs that were the cause of all his problems, not just chickens, as there was very little coyote sign anywhere on the ranch.

He admitted that most of the problems were happening relatively close to the house, but never thought that Rover might be involved. When asked why he sent everybody a couple miles away, he said that he was concerned about shooting around the barns and buildings, and figured that the hunters should be able to call the coyotes out where there was less risk.

Well, it don't work that way. A hunter should always try to set up in close proximity to his target species. He needs to do several other things, but should not forget that advice.

If the coyotes are in the woods during the day and out on the flats at night, that gives you something to work with. For instance, try to be there when they are moving in or moving out of that cover. That's not the only thing to keep in mind, but it helps if you consider that a coyote can cover a lot of ground in 24 hours.

I can't spell out every possibility, we all need to do a little thinking for ourselves. If the coyotes are there, if you see the tracks, see scat, hear them yipping, spot them crossing the road on you, you need to pattern them every bit as much as a whitetail buck.

If they are there, they will respond. Repeat that for me, Krusty..... then go find them.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 07, 2004, 01:18 AM:
 
Norm,

Those are good tips.
If I ever venture into the timber to call coyotes again I'll try to remember, and put them to use.

Thanks

Tim,

This was "supposed to be about my problems putting down fur... the rest of my problems are probably too many, and too complex, to go into here."

How well I take advice is really impossible for you to tell without going hunting, or spending time with me.
And I rarely ever asked for any advice, so the fact I don't take it, unsolicited, doesn't bother me that much.

Just because I am willing to tease/debate with the boys from Texas, online, about who has the thicker woods, and who has it easy or not, doesn't mean I have continued to call coyotes in it.
And it says even less about what methods or equipment I might use, and who influenced me to choose it.
Will I continue to hike in the woods I know and like the best, maybe sitting down to see if I can call another bobcat in one of the spots I have in the past? Yep.
Will I expect to "fail dismally"? Yep, so what?

If I succeed will it be awesome? Indeed!

Calling isn't the contest, just who's woods are the thickest, sickest, hardest to hunt is.

I believe, I have it won.

As for dairies, even I recognize hunting hayfields with a shotgun (no lead shot) is a waste of time.
I actually joined this site when it was the Hunt for Land site, there was a lot of helpful info on land access, and I tried three years ago to get on some of the farms (which are few and far between in all this urban sprawl).
I appreciate the tips, but I already been there done that.
The biggest problem I have there is lack of proven ability, the few farmers would did allow hunting wanted an experienced person who could perform the task, and we all know I am not that guy.
I won't lie to just to gain land access.

Lance,

What I said. lol

Leonard,

"If the coyotes are there, if you see the tracks, see scat, hear them yipping, spot them crossing the road on you..."

Umm, no on the tracks, scat from somebody that is not a cat (berries and other vegetable matter), no on yipping or howling, and no on seeing any crossing the road (but I have never seen a bear, or a lion, cross the road in places they definitely live).

I am starting to believe the "coyotes" I had been after were raccoons, even though we didn't see them or any of their tracks.

If they (coyotes in this case) are there they will respond.
Feel better now?

If the coyotes are in the flats at night, and in the woods in the daytime, I am screwed. And that's a pretty big if.
This would put the too close to the populated flats, and inside of firearms restriction areas, and/or private property.

My answer lies 100 miles east of here on the eastern slope of the Cascade Mtns, at the edge of the forest, where grasslands, sage scabland and basaltic coulees take over the landscape.

Let's forget the whole hunting in the thick forest for coyotes, okay.
I have not been calling coyotes in three weeks... the last time was not in the timber.
The next time I won't be either.

Besides, isn't it a little bit early in the season for me to be busting my hump trying to kill coyotes?
Getting my brother his bear has been the priority this month, and they do not live out in the open.
It'll be his deer next month, and they don't live in the open either.
We'll worry about coyotes after the first snow flies.

Sure am glad I didn't hi-jack Rich's thread.

Krusty
 

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