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Author
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Topic: Canines and territorial instincts
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 11, 2004 06:30 PM
Some of you fellas know that I carry mail for Uncle Sam and last week I had something happen to me on my route that is all the more freakin' bizarre when considered within the context of what we know and use to our advantage in hunting coyotes, and that is territorial instincts.
The day was last Thursday, 10-30 a.m.. There's this german shepherd on my route that apparently has a real hard-on for uniforms as indicated by the way he raises the hair on his back, assumes an aggressive posture and chewing on his chain when I park my mail truck near where he is chained. He does the same thing at the phone man, water meter guy, anyone in a uniform. Around the neighbors and kids, he's a big baby.
Last Thursday, I saw him running loose, so I drove through the area before walking that loop. A block and a half from where this dog lives - well outside anything he might perceive as his "territory" - he charges from between two house, circles my truck and lunges at me through the driver's side window. Luckily, my window was rolled up and he slammed nose first into the glass level with my face. While I was on my cell with the nice guys at 911, the dog was scratching at the glass and chewing on the window frame all the while bearing his teeth and growling at me. He REALLY doesn't like mailmen!
I decided that since he was focused on me and my truck, and that I was safe, I would stay there until the police or animal control arrived. I only wish I had a camera for all that happened next.
If I moved my truck even the slightests bit, the dog would charge me and resume its attack. At one point, the dog was actually on the hood of my truck tearing at my driver's side windshield wiper and looking me straight in the eye. The Assistant Fire Chief arrived first and after seeing this dog attacking my truck, radio'd to PD to expedite their units. Two officers arrived, and an animal control unit and the nice little doggy charged at them. Now, the pepper spray they use is ~ 100 times stronger than the impotent crap they give us to use, and they emptied five cans of that stuff in his face without any noticeable effect. After 14 minutes of this dog attacking my truck and acting crazy as hell, a neighbor with whom the dog was familiar walked out and the dog runs up to him - the officers are reaching for their sidearms thinking it's another attack - and the dogs drops to his belly, crawls up to the guy's feet with his ears down and his tail quivering in a typical submissive posture, and the guy takes him by the collar and walks him down the block and puts him back on his chain.
Here's the rub on this attack. Most dog bites are of the hit and run variety. The dog lunges in, bites and backs off before you have time to react. Once they've bitten you, they usually circle and if you get out of their territory, they calm right down. This dog was more than a block from where he lives and managed a sustained attack of nearly fifteen minutes. Kinda flies in the face of all the dog bite prevention training we get, not to mention the commonalities that exist between the territorial instincts of dogs versus their wild cousins. But, it was so extreme and bizarre, I just wanted to tell y'all about it. And, BTW, the dog is still there. He's line of sight with our kindergarten a block away where 200 5 and 6 year olds will be running, screaming and squealing in just two weeks. How Cujo will react is anyone's guess, but the police chief had a hard time explaining his lack of action to the city commission when I reported this to them with him sitting there. Some dogs just need to be dead.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted August 11, 2004 07:59 PM
The thing that really grips me about those dogs who want to attack. If you are seen spraying one, all hell breaks loose and a dozen people in an upper floor office want to second guess you and put you under a microscope.
We had another Troubleman up in Phoenix yesterday that had to spray a dog twice to get him to back down. The T-man retreated to his truck to get away from the dog, only to have the truck attacked by the dogs owner.
The deputies literally pealed the owner off of the trucks hood a block and a half from the house where the attacks started.
What do you want to bet the company puts the T-man though more crap than the owner of the dogs get? Nearly every customer complaint I've ever had against me stems from being attacked by a dog.
The standard question everyone is asked when they ask for their meter to be reread, or the power turned off or on, is "Are there any dogs loose in the yard or any locked gates"? If the customer answers yes, they are told to call back when the problem is rectified. Yet I come across locked gates nearly every day and aggressive dogs 3-4 times a week.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 11, 2004 08:02 PM
I love dogs, but I agree with you. Aggression like that should be severely delt with.
My niece, when she was about 7, went in the side gate of the neighbor's, across the street, where her little friends lived. German Shepard pet dog mauled her about the head, ripping her scalp off and requiring 156 stitches.
Sure, their insurance set up a nice trust fund for Susie, but I don't think the dog was destroyed? Still. Gotta side with the kids, and the public. You would have been justified, Lance.
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling
[ August 11, 2004, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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brent Saxton
unknown comic
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posted August 11, 2004 10:22 PM
I will tell you a good one! A couple years ago me and the wife was living out in the country. We had a ranch home there with a big work shop beside the house. I left for work, I was working the afternoon shift. She took the kids and went to her moms. When she returned later that night. there was a big dog in the drive way. My wife loves dogs so she starts to get out of the car and it comes running at her and showing teeth so she jumps back in the car.
She waits a while and it wont leave, every time she trys to get out it trys to bite her. She calls on the cell phone and I told her to call the law. She does and they tell here to call animal control, Well animal control is not open at 10:00 pm so she calls them back. They tell her they dont do animal control. So she calls me back tells me what they said and that she still cant get out of the car. So I call the law myself. Im giving them a piece of my mind and telling them she has kids in the car and they ask me if she has some other place to go! Man...Thats her home, not the dogs! They said that it was a county area and that animal control would haft to handle it! And that they would call them and have them call me back.
The hole time she is still in her car! The dog when around the house and she pulled the car up by the front door and got in the house. She called me back and told me she made it in and to be careful when I came home. In the mean time the animal control guy calls back and told me he would be out the first thing in the morning to take care of it. I ask him what if someone gets hurt. He told me if it harms anyone or does any damage to my place, to shoot it! If it was on my property only!
So, I call her back and ask if the dog left, she goes out in the work shop, turns on the light and the dog was out side the roll up door, when the light come on it starts to bite the door and rubber on the bottom of the door and handles. I told her I was on my way home!
When I got there, he was in the driveway standing there looking at me. When I open the door he takes off, Runs about 20 yards and starts to stand his ground. Showing teeth and the hole nine yards. I made it to the door and got in the house. I dont think I haft to tell you what happend when I went back out side! It was a hound mix dog. I dont know what kind of mix but it was very aggesive and big. I cant belive the law would not do anything about it and the animal control guy didnt want to get out of bed I gess.
I dont have any idea what would make a dog act like this or do what this one did. Anyone care to give out a idea?
Kee
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 11, 2004 10:31 PM
Who knows? Fear?
Maybe we could ask a couple guys; Scott Peterson and Mark Hacking, what would cause a normal human or a family pet to turn killer?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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brent Saxton
unknown comic
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posted August 11, 2004 11:58 PM
I know that animals can sence things in people and other animals. Like fear, and know when you are afraid of them.
I have a Jack RT. And sence I have had him, (he is three years old now) I have learned alot. They are very, very smart animals. He also knows when he is in trouble just by looking at you. There body signs tell alot about them to. But it seems he can sence when you are happy and sad, sick to. If im sick and in bed he is right there all day or night right by my side. Seems like he knows when something is wrong. But if im happy then he is happy. They learn to understand alot of what you say to. All of his toys have names and if you tell him to get one of them by name thats the one he brings back...Thing is he has 11 diffrent toys.
I dont know if fear would be the reason for a dog to do something like that or not. Just like cdog911 says that dog had it in for him, was it the truck or the uniform, or what. Seems like something they sence or see makes them snap?
Kee
[ August 12, 2004, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: keekee ]
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 12, 2004 11:10 AM
Tim, I forgot that you face the same thing. I've had more than a couple folks ask me why we get so bent outta shape about their damned dogs. I tell them to let me know where they work so I can sneak up behind them someday and turn a mean ass dog loose on them, then they can tell me how much they like it.
In this case, five families are now no longer getting their mail. To their credit, postal management has a zero tolerance policy about dog bites. One dilrod just can't understand why he has to be punished for his neighbor's problem. Finally, my supervisor just told him flat out that his mail just wasn't important to us and that it didn't matter, if there was a chance a carrier could get bit. I know carriers that lost their careers and ended up disabled for life because of dog bites. For example, one was bit in the leg and suferred irreparable nerve damage and lost most of the function of that leg. Kinda hard to walk a route on one leg.
My previous postmaster was renowned for the time he was attacked by a dog, his mace ran out, and he ended up killing the dog with his bare hands. He got tore up doing it but the dog wouldn't withdraw. I've got over 350 dogs on my route and have to deal withonly a few problem children outta the bunch, thank God.
I'll tell you the common denominator in my town - army. No offense to the military and vets on this site, but we get a lot of army thugs that don't want to live on post at Ft. Riley and they ove here and other area towns with their dogs. The owner of this german shepherd is a staff sergeant and if he doesn't play nice, there's talk that we'll get his CO in on things and threaten him with conduct unbecoming a soldier for being a liability to the community. My boss is retired air force LT and my supervisor is retired navy.
On a related note, my new neighbors have that Rott I posted about at another time and he's army. What is it with these guys and their four-legged phallic symbols? Anyway, a couple weeks ago, I returned from an ADC job and had the whole bedliner of my truck covered with coyote blood. I didn't realize he was out on his porch when I dragged the hose out to the driveway and in the light of my maglight, began blowing blood alkl over the driveway and into the gutter. Then, I pulled my rifle outta my truck, dropped the plate and jacked the one in the chamber out when he got up and stormed into the house, knocking his lawn chair over on the process. LMAO. I've warned him that if his dog comes in my yard, he won't be going home. Or, at the very least, not under his own power. This is MY damned yard and by God, if that dog wants to get into a debate over who pisses on my trees, bring it on.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted August 12, 2004 11:46 AM
Are you limited to mace/pepperspray for defense? Are you allowed to carry a stun-gun or stun-baton?
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted August 12, 2004 07:18 PM
They give us these little 1.2 oz cans of a stuff called "HALT" It has an effective range of about 5'. After being on the truck for a while, it comes out like a thin string of silly string. It's not worth a plug nickel if you can't hit the dog in the eyes.
They have now given our meter readers a new "tool" It's about the size of a golf putter with a fancy bicycle handle grip on one end and a tennis ball bolted to the other. It cost the company $15 a piece, and makes our lawyers so very happy.
Being found to be carrying a "Weapon" ( a stun gun would probably qualify ) while on the job is cause for immediate termination. I carry a Screwdriver in a "Holster" on my belt. It's a necessary tool in my everyday work, and a couple of times, I've found it to be a damned handy tool to have at hand.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 13, 2004 04:29 AM
With exception of the new tool Tim describes, we have the same situation. And I don't have a holster or a need for a screwdriver.
The wife of a deployed serviceman that lives in the neighborhood says that the shepherd I'm dealing with is probably a cull from the army's service dog training program and that the guy probably picked it up for a song to keep it from being put down. No doubt it had some personality defect that kept it from being manageable.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted August 15, 2004 08:26 AM
Man a serviceman that has a dog that has a problem with uniforms can you imagine the greeting he gets when he comes home from work???? LOL
Glad you were able to avoid bodily harm in that encounter! Good luck with the dogs through the fence.
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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