|
Author
|
Topic: caliber selection 300 win mag or 300wsm
|
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
|
posted September 19, 2011 09:33 AM
Good to see you posting Andy. Good timing too. While I was out killing coyotes on Saturday I thought about you not posting for awhile and figured to drop you a line this week.
- DAA
--------------------
"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
Member # 1526
|
posted September 19, 2011 02:01 PM
If I were buying one, I'd go with the 300 WSM. It is the most popular of the WSM's, although the 7mm and 270 WSM's have a bit of a following, too. I don't think you're going to have any problem getting 300 WSM ammo in your lifetime in a variety of loads.
--------------------
"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
Posts: 588 | From: FL | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 19, 2011 02:20 PM
I'm a bit surprised, Del. You would "go with" the WSM because it's more popular? Is it because of published data?
I'm wondering where I have been? The hype never got my attention, for some reason? Is it really more popular....than what? Than other WSM's or more popular than the 300WinMag?
You know, seems to me that short fat cartridges have feeding problems in a bolt gun. They slide off the feed rails and the bump is prone to rattle a bit, missing the chamber more often than longer cartridges. Sometimes it's the first and third and other times it is the second and fourth cartridge coming out of the magazine.
As I said before, I never saw any vast "need" for another 300Mag? But, they are flying off the shelves, huh?
I am so out of touch!
gh....lb
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted September 19, 2011 05:09 PM
Leonard, not pertinent to the current decision, but I have a 7WSM on a short action which runs from a Wyatt's extended magazine box. You can run that bolt like an animal & it'll feed a 168 or 180 VLD @ 3.00" coal like poop thru a goose. Not to mention, the selection of 'long range' .284 caliber bullets have it all over but the heaviest .308 offerings available. And those 208-210grainers in .308 caliber need more powder to make them barely match the performance of the .284s, and reward that effort with more felt recoil...
In short, inside of a darn close to mile, the 7mms are pretty much ruling the long range world. And the straight 7WSM and 7/300WSM are two of the most prominent contenders. Also, the 7 RSAUM may well be the mose efficient design of all, and a true short action caliber at that. If you could tell me why the belted design of the 7mm Rem Mag (or 300WMag) is preferable to the modernized 7 (or 300) WSM, then I'm all ears...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the belted mags, however, the now 'obsolete' belt bottleneck case design does nothing for case life. It's more or a vestigal remain of the parent case in a time where the belt was a necessity to headspace off. Anymore, these WSMs are an improved & more efficient design of those old tried & true workhorses, the belted magnums...
[ September 19, 2011, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted September 19, 2011 06:05 PM
My Sako fed empty case through the magazine and never balked at any loaded rounds. Internet rumors.
The belted case is outdated and does nothing but reduce the number of rounds held in the magazine.
I used to have a 7Mag and never got the blazing speeds the books claimed either, so hype isn't reserved just for the WSM's.
Leonard, how many WSM's have you fooled with and which ones were so hard to feed?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 19, 2011 10:57 PM
I don't know anything about them, Tom. I said I am barely aware of their existence. I was referring to short fat cases in general. And, I do not have vast experience with any of them. I take it you disagree and have vast experience? I am a victim of Internet rumor? If so, disregard because my experience on that issue is limited.
gh....lb
edit: I agree concerning the useless belts, but have never found a belt on a magnum to be an actual problem.
[ September 19, 2011, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
|
posted September 20, 2011 04:59 AM
I think most wsm cartridges use a single stack magazine of 3 rounds, I have cycled the one I have a number of times and not missed a lick. We'll see what happens when it matters.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
Member # 1526
|
posted September 20, 2011 05:45 AM
No, Leonard, I wouldn't 'go with' the 300 WSM because it is more popular. In point of fact, it is probably less popular due to how long the 300 WM has been out and how well it's established. I currently own 2 .30-06's and a .30-30, and 2 7mm Remington Mags. I would choose the 300 WSM because it is said to give virtual 300 WM performance in a round that kicks a little less. It's shorter size also permits a short action and might make for a slightly lighter rifle, which to me is a good thing, esp. when climbing mountains. I am not a fashion whore and don't buy cartridges predicated on popularity, hence my 2 .17 Remingtons, 3 .45-70's, 444, and 280 Remington, all hardly icon's of pupularity.
I expect some of the WSM line to fail, probably the WSSM's. The WSM's, particularly the 270, 7mm, and 300, I expect to endure. There are too many people buying them, and they provide credible performance, for them to fail. The 270 WSM nominally provides a demonstrable increase in ballistics over the 270 Win, although the fans of the 270 Win need not feel threatened as it has been around almost forever and has a loyal following. Like the '06, it will be around forever. The 7mm WSM is starting to get a bit of a cult following in some circles, so I don't see it faltering either. The 300 WSM is the most popular of the WSM's, and you have to work pretty hard to make any halfway decent .30 caliber round fail in America. The 300 WSM provides credible ballistics and is popular and will endure.
The main naysayers to the WSM's are the folks shooting other magnums who feel their old-style magnum is threatened by the new kids on the block. There is no need, as the older belted magnums will stay with us. And having choices is always a good thing. I tend to be of the philosophy that while I may not prefer a particular cartridge, I have no need to trash talk it unless I have some pretty spectacular reason. So far, I own no WSM's, nor do I have experience playing with any, but that is mostly an environmental issue, as there aren't any animals in FL requiring a magnum. When I move to Montana, that may change. I have, at times, kicked around the idea of getting a 270 or 300 WSM, but haven't reached critical mass and bought one yet.
[ September 20, 2011, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]
--------------------
"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
Posts: 588 | From: FL | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted September 20, 2011 08:28 AM
No vast experience here Leonard, I just had a 300WSM, a buddy has one and a 270WSM, another buddy has a 223WSSM in an AR-15 that I've been around quite a bit. That's just 4 rifles and the bolts were all Sako's but I've yet to see one fail to feed, even the AR.
Forgot another buddy had a 7WSM in a Remington 700 custom and it fed fine as well.
If I were to go again I'd go 7WSM even though it lacks a factory rifle and ammo, it is King of the hill and I predict it will come around again in factory form.
[ September 20, 2011, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
|
posted September 20, 2011 09:34 AM
Two of my friends that hunted with the 300wm went to wsm for new rifles. They seem to be happy. I like the 300 wm because I have had for many years and see no reason to go WSM. I had a 7mm rem mag also, I also NEVER got decent ballistics out of it, the loads the book showed 3000-3100fps thru a chrono went about 2800-2900. Same thing with all the weatherbys I chronoed. I recently bought a 270wsm in a winchester featherweight, real purty, it is accurate, no chrono time yet. I do not like the rifle very well and may sell it. For a featherweight it is quite heavy.
Carl
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 20, 2011 10:14 AM
Excuse me. What are we talking about? I have been out in the garage grinding the belts off all my magnums.
gh....lb
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted September 20, 2011 10:26 AM
LOL
You need to drive a 7WSM, Leonard...
Guaranteed to make ya smile & no grinding!!!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 20, 2011 12:37 PM
Okay, what sort of ft. lbs. would I have remaining out at 600 yards. Assume I'm using the laughingly obsolete 300WM with 168 grain bullets at 3050fps, and you use something in 7MM using (perhaps) 154 grain bullets? Would I cripple a moose that you would kill dead in it's tracks? I need to know this before next fall rolls around.
gh....lb
PS make it 430 yards, if possible. (I'll wait)
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted September 20, 2011 02:52 PM
No one is as blind as he who refuses to see...
Carry on.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
Member # 1526
|
posted September 20, 2011 03:59 PM
This isn't 'The Highlander' where 'there can be only one', or King of the Hill. The 300 WM and 300 WSM and 7mm RM and 7mm WSM and 270 Win and 270 WSM can all co-exist peacefully. It's a big tent with plenty of room for everybody.
In point of fact, he's in a lucky situation, as he's gonnna be a winner whether he chooses a 300 WM or the 300 WSM. They are both good cartridges, and there is no really bad or wrong choice here.
Folks sometimes get their egos wrapped up in things and that is when things can get sticky. I have my .25-06 but have no probs with folks who use the 250 Savage or 250AI or 257 Bob or 257 Bob AI or 257 Roy or even the 25-35, for that matter. I don't let other's choices threaten me or cast aspersions on my judgement. I know my shit and I'm happy and as long as they are happy it's all good. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ September 20, 2011, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]
--------------------
"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
Posts: 588 | From: FL | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted September 20, 2011 06:28 PM
How about a .30-06 Ackley? No stupid belt and cheaper brass.
Bullet Nosler Ballistic Tip
BulletWeight 180 grs
Powder Alliant Reloader 22
PowderWeight 63 grs
Primer CCI 200
Brass Make Federal
Barrel Length 26 (inches)
C.O.L (inches)
Velocity 3050 fps
Group 1.1 (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds)
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted September 20, 2011 07:10 PM
Got a good buddy that has a 30-06 AI and loves it.
I've also thought about a 280AI if I were to use a long action.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 20, 2011 07:39 PM
For that category, I am a big fan of the 280AI. My old buddy used to shoot one off the rack, at night while I cozied up to him with the light and in that case, I did not love it. But, as a western mule deer cartridge I think it's hard to beat. I never remember an unkind word about it, whereas I have heard a few negatives concerning the 30'06AI, whether deserved or not, I do not know?
But, a 280Ackley is one I would consider worthy, if I didn't already have a 25'06AI that I am quite fond of. I can't buy these things on a whim, being that I'm retired on a fixed income and judging by some of the recent comments, some of you guys are big time acquirers. I'm lucky to buy a rifle every three years and certainly not two at a time. I guess it's because I don't really need 'em. Until I got all knowed up about WSM, that is. Now, I gotta have one.
gh....lb
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted September 20, 2011 08:05 PM
I had a 25-06AI once, wish I still had it...
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
|
posted September 21, 2011 05:07 AM
Leonard,, I don't buy two at a time either.. one the first day then one the next. So they weren't really at the same time. LOL..
The 300 wm was in a 35 year old browning BAR rifle in perfect unshot condition priced well below its value.
Shot the HS bolt action 300wsm with 180 gr yesterday in short sleeves and was surprised the recoil was no worse than a 30 06 if not less. The rifle weight 6.5 lbs.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
Member # 1526
|
posted September 21, 2011 03:48 PM
I'm a humble public servant that makes less now than he did 3 years ago. The ducks are gettin' all my money...they deducts this, and deducts that, and I expect next year they will be expecting me to pay them so I can come to work.
Although, truth be told, I am secretly considerng what my next acquisition will be. Savage, Browning, Tikka...270 Win, 280 Rem, 6.5x284, 270 WSM. It's a proven fact that it's dangerous to allow me to make decisions on my own... ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
--------------------
"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
Posts: 588 | From: FL | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 21, 2011 04:19 PM
Admit it, Del. You would do it for nothing. lol
edit: 6/284, You are fortunate that you don't live here in the People's Republik. I "think" we are only allowed one gun a month? The wait is 10 days for long guns and 15 for short ones.
gh....lb
[ September 21, 2011, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
Member # 1526
|
posted September 21, 2011 08:02 PM
Well, I don't know about doing it for nothing, Leonard, but at least a warm, dry place to sleep and pizza. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
Posts: 588 | From: FL | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted September 21, 2011 08:03 PM
And how much crime have those infringements on your 2nd amendment rights prevented?? Over this way, it's pick out the firearm that you want, show your concealed weapon permit and leave with the weapon & ammo, heading to the range for some enjoyable trigger time. Concealed carry is common & open carry doesn't raise to many eyebrows. I like this place!!!
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
lwilliams
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3821
|
posted October 06, 2011 06:53 AM
I picked up a kimber Montana in 300wsm and so far with the 180gr accubonds and 68 grains of reloader 22 I am getting 2962fps. I love the short actions and light weight. Either way you go the elk will not know what hit it, but if your packing that gun up and down the mountains you will know. The kimber is a 1/2" gun for 2 shots with the 3rd under an inch and then it goes up from there on the next shots. Light weight barrels and heat do not go together at all.
Posts: 20 | From: Gillette, Wyoming | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
