This is topic Stitching up a cat in forum Cat forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on January 25, 2013, 08:43 PM:
Tonight right at dark I had a bobcat come in and when I was skinning it i sliced about a half inch hole in his back. My question is how to stitch it up and what to stitch it with. Do I stitch it from the fur side or the inside? If its the inside wont the buyer be able to tell?
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 25, 2013, 09:05 PM:
Getting ready to write a piece for T&PC on just this topic. Here's the reader's digest version. And no, the furbuyer will neither know, or care. In fact, if you leave it, he'll dock you 30% or so and sew it himself and pass it on as if it never happened.
Lay the hide flat, skin side out so the hole is in front of you. I like to pull them loosely onto a stretcher.) You need a good needle and some fine dental floss or spider wire monofilament line. I use a three-sided glover's needle but a straight needle will do and I prefer the latter in 4# test. Hopefully the hole will realign fine without any trimming, pull the end toward the head (edges) together and pass the needle through from the skin side, bringing it out right at the edge on the other side. When pulling it through, leave just enough of the double line before the knot in the end to allow you to pass the needle between those two lines forming something of a noose and pull it up snug.This secures your first stitch.
Now, what you're gonna do now is what is called a baseball stitch. Poke the needle through from the skin side about a 16th-inch from the edge on one side, then do the same thing at the other side so that the stitches look like the stitches on a baseball. Thus, the name. Do not overtighten, but pull them until snugged just past when the sides of the skin come together ane continue this until the entire length of the hole has been stitched. Now comes the neat taxidermist trick - how to finish the stitching.
On the last stitch, pull the needle and thread through but stop while there is still about two inches of doubled thread on the skin side of the stitch. Cut the thread off at the needle, leaving you with a slack loop of double thread on the skin side of where the needle went through the hide and the two tails of that double loop on the hair side.
Grab one of those tails and pull it up snug. That will leave one slack loop on the skin side. Grab the loop and pull the end of the thread backwards back through the hole. Now you have one tail on one side and one tail on the other. Using these two threads, tie a quick double knot. I do two or three and then trim off any excess thread hanging at either end of the stitch.
Voila! You have a perfect stitch. Just make sure as you're sewing to keep hair from the hair side out of the stitches the best you can. When stretched and dried, you should not be able to see the seam from the fur side. A few years back, I was brought a red fox that had been killed by a bald eagle. The eagle had torn the fox open and began to feed when the guy that brought it to me took it from him. Using this baseball stitch, I was able to lay the pieces of him back into place and sew him back together as the seams edges were all in non-critical parts of the pelt. I sewed over 20-inches of seam with 1/8-inch spaced stitches and sold him for $20. On a good day, I can sew a 4-inch hole in about 5 minutes.
I hope this was clear enough. If not, ask and I'll try to clarify. The T&PC piece will have step by step pics.
Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on January 25, 2013, 09:19 PM:
Thanks Lance, the hole is only a 1\2 inch or so and is perfectly straight so should only take about three stitches or so.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 25, 2013, 09:58 PM:
Good advice from the CDude!!!
If I might add;
I once had a bad hollow-point surface splash on a coyotes shoulder. The next shot into the spinner hit the hip and the last shot raked the spine. `Ugly` would have been an improvement once I got the thing skinned. Huge rips that connected. I ended up tacking the rips together with stitches from three different needles. It took a bit of time but everything came back together. Biggest problem was keeping the hair out of the stitches.
Now, at this point someone is probably asking "Why bother on a low dollar coyote??".
The answer is 'practice'. Better in my mind to learn to sew and make mistakes on the low dollar coyote than on a high dollar bobcat.
Once the mystery of sewing is removed it just becomes a routine part of putting up fur.
(There might also be just a wee bit of pride involved too when really nice fur comes off of the stretchers,)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2013, 10:55 PM:
I use the dental floss as well with a half moon needle, can get them at any craft shop or sewing center..
Rather than a baseball stitch I use a knotted stitch which is very simular..
You run the needle and thread through both edges of the hide and at the starting point then tie a knot. ( make sure you start with a good double length of dental floss). Next just move the next stitch over a tadd and repeat by tieing another knot and leave all the knots connected to each other, in other words just keep stitching and don't cut the tail end of the floss.. Reason for doing it this way is if one knot breaks free from the hide the stitch will still hold and stay snug.....
Edit to add: to help hold the hide in place while sewing place it on a board and either staple it down or use tacks..
[ January 25, 2013, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on January 26, 2013, 05:47 PM:
You stretch cats fur side out,right?
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2013, 07:44 PM:
Place on stretcher for about 6 hrs depending apon room temp with inside skin out till surface is some what dry,not sticky and then turn to fur side out till completely dry...
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 27, 2013, 05:41 AM:
Tim makes a good point. Regardless of which stitch you use, throw a knot in once in a while for the reason he cites. On deer and pretty much anything else, I knot every fifth stitch. As far as keeping hair out of the stitching, I find it easier to do that as I'm sewing rather than waiting until afterwards and doing it. Just keep the thread as far to the edge as you can as you go.
Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on January 31, 2013, 07:10 PM:
Excellent info. I have sewn holes in a fair amount of fur and gotten some top prices for coyotes with major sewing done on them.
However, your instructions have some techniques better than mine, but I don't understand how to tie the last knot. You wrote:
On the last stitch, pull the needle and thread through but stop while there is still about two inches of doubled thread on the skin side of the stitch. Cut the thread off at the needle, leaving you with a slack loop of double thread on the skin side of where the needle went through the hide and the two tails of that double loop on the hair side.
Grab one of those tails and pull it up snug. That will leave one slack loop on the skin side. Grab the loop and pull the end of the thread backwards back through the hole. Now you have one tail on one side and one tail on the other. Using these two threads, tie a quick double knot.
I am too dense to follow that last knot. If one thread tail is on each side of the hide, how do you tie them together? I'm obviously misunderstanding something.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 31, 2013, 07:24 PM:
I respectfully must disagree with the experts. I have sewed up a few and have found the baseball stitch to work great, but I use a curved needle and always stich by going under to the hair side then up and through. That way you never pull hair into the stitch. Try it. It really works.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 31, 2013, 10:23 PM:
No one claimed one was better over the other, just different ways of doing it..
But! On a thin skinned animal like a fox or cat or a area on coyotes where the hide is thinner like the belly area, when you go to turn the hides part of the baseball stitch can come loose from part of the stitch breaking through the hide and causeing the hole to open up some..
The stitch I use is simular to what a vet or doctor would use but rather than have individual stitches I just keep the thread continues as it makes it easier to tie a knot and keep the edges of it together so you don't get and hair in it..
Either way works and the baseball stitch can be a little quicker to do, but just not as reliable as the other mentioned...
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 01, 2013, 07:35 AM:
When you do any amount, quicker is better. I've put up over a hundred so far this winter.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 01, 2013, 10:52 AM:
That will keep you busy.
I have'nt put any coyotes up in the last two years, I just skin them and pay a guy to put them up which gives me more time for hunting/calling.. I still put up the fox though which does'nt take long... Years prior I would put up anywhere from 100-150 coyotes and if anyone doubts this I have the fur grade sheets to prove it... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 01, 2013, 12:56 PM:
Now why would anyone doubt you Tim? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 01, 2013, 07:30 PM:
Thank you Cal. Sounds like you've been busy. The payoff should be good from the sound of things,this year. A good year to be busy in the fur shed.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 02, 2013, 07:58 AM:
BK, I'm not sure yet. I heard early some 70 dollar averages which is about my cutoff. Now they are around 40 to 50 which to me isn't enough. I have spent many nights away from the family and at the end of a fleshing beam for 4 or 5 grand. I'd have been better off getting a job tending bar at night! To get that amount of coyotes skinned, fleshed, washed and put up is pure work. I haven't sold yet, but have a feeling I'm not going to be happy when I do.
[ February 02, 2013, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 02, 2013, 08:59 AM:
For what its worth I sold some fur right after Christmas with a 30.00 avr. on skinned coyotes (add 5.00-8.00 to the price if stretched and dried)..
Red fox fetched 25-30.00 on avr. for skinned hides ( add another 5.00 if put up).
Raccoon fetched 25.00 for the XX-jumbo's skinned
( add 5.00 if put up)
Sales in the past when I also sold S.D. coyotes they would fetch about 30.00 more than the Mn. coyotes and would think that Cal's coyotes should bring the same as the Dakota coyotes if not a little more. Should be seeing 50.00 to 75.00 and a little more if you have some of the silkier fur with wide clear bellies.
Less than 10% of the fur sold by my fur buyer goes to NAFTA, 90% or better he sells directly to China, korea, russia....
Hope everyone does well on prices this season...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 02, 2013, 09:09 AM:
Cal, I thought WS people couldn't recover the carcasses? Don't know where I got that, but obviously, I'm mistaken?
You know, for me, my buddy Mercer is almost a legend, 99 bobcats one season, in cages, no less! (don't know about this year?) and high average at the Fallon sale. Numbers like that makes it worthwhile, you know? Email me your address and I can send you a copy of his trail cam video, interesting and in one case comical, chasing a cat that ran off with the catch pole around his neck. You can include files of your best coyote sounds, if you want? Optional, of course.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 02, 2013, 12:36 PM:
The Utah Coyotes we've put up and sold this year only averaged 40 bucks,but then I got another 50 bucks each for the bounty so 90 bucks a coyote ain't to bad I guess. Shot a bunch more that didn't get skinned and just got the bounty. I should of bought the non resident trappers license for Nevada though,we shot some nice Coyotes out that way this year.
And the Redfox we shot averaged 35 bucks.
Good hunting Chad
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 02, 2013, 12:43 PM:
99 cats this year would make him a wealthy man in our cats. Problem is our cat population has really crashed.
As for fur, our county dropped WS in April, but retained the trappers. I was in no position to move with kids in school and etc. So I stayed. I'm now a contract trapper to this county. It actually pays better and I can put up fur, and video or write if I choose. All the stuff I couldn't do when working for WS. LB, I have a few private sounds I can share, but it wouldn't be right to share anything FoxPro has the rights to. You can get those sounds from them anyway.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 02, 2013, 01:04 PM:
Cal, any sound you have held back would be much appreciated. I already legally bought every coyote vocal Foxpro offers.
You know, our cats are pretty nice here, maybe not quite equal to Wyoming, but damned good.
Email me your address and I will send you that outtake CD, you will like it. And, whoever said a coyote won't enter a cage? Same situation, I have not shared it with anybody but I'm sure Mercer won't mind, in this case, for a good friend.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 02, 2013, 05:51 PM:
I wore out my welcome on the Trapperman ADC forums over suggesting that coyotes could and are cage trapped... "I was helping the anti's" blah blah blah.
Mercer, is a perfect example of a guy that walks the walk without a bunch of talk. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Krusty
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 02, 2013, 08:29 PM:
So being thorough like I am I went and shot a cat today to show what I meant. Who else would go to these lengths.
[ February 03, 2013, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 02, 2013, 08:34 PM:
Krusty, Im fairly sure that cage trapping coyotes would be the least effective way possible and most coyotes would not enter a cage. An exception occasionally of course, but still very ineffective.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 02, 2013, 09:45 PM:
I agree with Cal. but those dam coyotes sure love to crawl into alot of culverts. Here anyway...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 02, 2013, 11:40 PM:
That looks just like my knee when they were done with me.
Yeah, unintentional, but he has the video.
Good hunting. Lima Brav 0
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 03, 2013, 05:48 AM:
Cal,
It wasn't that I thought it would be easy, it was that I said it wasn't a complete impossibility.
And I wasn't talking about targeting "wild" coyotes but those in the urban landscape, where the can't be (realistically) trapped by conventional means.
I've actually got a trap design in my head, incorporating a chicken coop, I believe would work effectively (*but it's not anything like what we're used to).
Krusty
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 03, 2013, 10:32 AM:
Did you ever hear the story by (drew a blank) about attracting coyotes?
He said he uncoiled a big roll of chicken wire, staked it out and found a couple of particularly yappy stray dogs, and tied them in the center.
Left alone all day, the local coyotes found there way into the coil's center and were exchanging insults with the dogs.
Suddenly, (that's his name) Bill Bynum walks up with a fully loaded 12 gauge, wades into the chicken wire. Meanwhile, there's a couple alpha coyotes with eyes big as saucers and nowhere to go, thinking; "Oh Shit!" just as the finale is about to begin.
I don't know if it's true, but it sounds like something he would do.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 03, 2013, 10:35 AM:
Wow, great photos Cal. Looks good when you are finished.
Krusty, dont they make a live trap cage for bobcats where it has a compartment to put a live chicken in one end to use for bait? If I recall, the ADC trapper I worked with one time in Texas was telling me about them and said they were deadly on cats. Said they couldnt resist. I believe he said he would set them in the thickest wooliest shit he could find and had good luck, which makes sense.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 03, 2013, 02:32 PM:
Baldnobber,
Yes I've seen the cat cages used in that manner, but I'm thinking on a way larger scale, with a couple twists.
Krusty
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