This is topic Mysterious cat of Mexico in forum Cat forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on July 02, 2003, 07:08 PM:
I think this was brought up last year and I found it very interesting. Does anyone know what an Onza cat is? They killed one in the northern mountains of Mexico in 1986, took pictures and did a necropsy. This cat has non retractable claws like a cheetah, it's very long legged like a cheetah and has the coloration of a mountain lion except for black striping on the inside of it's forelegs. What are your thoughts on this very rare, strange cat?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2003, 07:27 PM:
I remember the question. For some reason, the description reminds me of an African animal, the Ardwolf, I think it's called?
But, the place to learn about this animal is from the natives that live in the area.
I wouldn't dispute the existance, look what turned up on the Pacific shore of Chile recently, a previously unknown sea creature.
Need we mention the Chuppacabre?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 03, 2003, 06:39 PM:
Leonard,
I can only think of one way to find out for sure if it exists.
The wife says I can't cross the Border with John-Henry again, but she's never met you.....
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 03, 2003, 07:04 PM:
Mexico has a bunch of indigenous cats, five to be exact; ocelot,jaguarundi,margay,jaguar and mt.lion, but the onza isn't one of em. Most likey a local myth similar to ours concerning the infamous black mt.lion.
~Az-Hunter~
-------------------------
" Never take yourself more serious than your subject"
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 03, 2003, 08:32 PM:
Vic, would you bet a million dollars you are right about that? I didn't think so. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 03, 2003, 10:09 PM:
Come on Leonard; a million bucks....why thats, ludricous!!!! ...... but, I would bet a hundred dollar bill.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on July 04, 2003, 01:00 PM:
I'll bet you're wrong Az. You said there are 5 indigenous cats in Mexico....WRONG....there are 6, you forgot the bobcat of all things. Also, there are black Mt lions, maybe that's why they call them panthers down south, there are also black Jaguars. Nobody knows for sure if an Onza is for real or not, It's kinda like bigfoot, a myth, maybe? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
They have some good info on the internet about it. Hummm.....I wonder if I'll get a hunderd dollers? lol,J/K yas Az, ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Good Hunting.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2003, 01:17 PM:
He's right, Vic. Don't have an excuse why I didn't catch it, but sometimes we all overlook the obvious, huh?
Sounds like you at least owe him a Pacifico! "Salute"
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 04, 2003, 03:23 PM:
Just jogged my memory, a bit. I have seen a couple very dark bobcats, don't know how many exactly, but they were all in southern Arizona. One, in particular, I didn't get him, as he scooted into Mexico, literally. By far the darkest, if not black bobcat I have ever seen, and I wanted him badly enough that if I had (a) shot, I would have gone after him. Fortunately for both of us, I never got sight of him after he slipped away. I had elevation in the rocks, and good visibility, and I worked him for quite a while, but no dice. This animal had a pattern, but it was almost like black and charcoal, very much like my house cat, a breed called "Bengal", except for the size and the short tail.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 06, 2003, 09:45 PM:
Yer right Danny......it is six cats! Not to wiggle out of a bet, but that was concerning the onza and blk. mt. lion. But....you do deserve a six pack of tecate for pointing out my folly on the missing bobcat:) Now if you drag a black lion to my place to rub my nose in it, I will pony up the C-note AND the tecate!!! but Im safe on that bet!
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on July 07, 2003, 10:33 AM:
Aww don't worry Az, it's a getting older thing lol. If I ever get back down to your part of the country again, I'll buy. Come to think about it, I want to hunt around that Portal area, looks like a good place for a Anza to hang out lol. Good Hunting.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 11, 2003, 05:26 PM:
As per the request of Leonard and Steve Craig, here's a hundred dollar black cat. What's the story behind this pic? You'll have to get that from Steve. I'm just the messenger here.
[ July 11, 2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 11, 2003, 06:17 PM:
That is indeed what appears to be a black cat....but it isn't a hundred dollar black cat. That obviously is a leopard or jaguar, but not a black mountain lion, and that is where the bet is centered at. Ive never disputed the idea that black leopards or jags exist....I do dispute the existence of black mt lions, and thus far history is on my side, as no verified photos or sightings have been heard of yet in modern history. Note I state verified....lots of rumors and myth about folks seeing black lions, but nothing thus far is verified.....Lets hear the story behind this one, did Steve pull a photo of the net of a leopard, or is this his photo of a personal sighting? If this is his sighting and photo, he stands to make a hell of a lot more than a C-note, which of course I would pony up with the proper authentication. I still feel pretty safe in my bet, the question is... How do I win my loot? All you believers have two weeks to put up or shut up, provide an authentic photo you have shot along with scientific proof, or shoot me my hundred dollars:)
~Az-Hunter~
----------------------------
"Don't tell me about a black lion, show me a black lion"
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2003, 07:32 PM:
Well, The note from Steve sure sounds like he took the picture, or he was at least there when it happened.
Too bad he is not walking past a road sign proclaiming: "WELCOME TO ARIZONA".
I agree though, the head looks a little too large for a lion, and the muzzle looks a little too blocky. Features that make it look more like a jaguar, but that would garner him much acclaim; just as it has Warner Glenn....if taken on this side of the border?
What do you say, Steve?
Good hunting. LB
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 11, 2003, 08:11 PM:
Interesting topic. I have also heard the stories of people seeing black mountain lions in this part of the world. Nobody has ever been able to come up with any real evidence though. I know guys who have spent the better part of their lives chasing and treeing lions and have never come across one. If there was even a slim chance of the possibility of a black lion around here one would have likely been photographed or killed by now. It seems like every time I read about a lion sighting back east the cat was black. Considering that the lion population in the eastern U.S would be very low at best, It makes me wonder if the cat in question just isn't someones "erotic" pet that got loose.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 11, 2003, 08:18 PM:
I'll humbly have to go with leopard. As is generally the case with black-phased leopards, the spots on this critter are still quite evident if you look closely. The taxidermist in me has me looking at the relative size of the ears to the eyes, whiskers and head structure. Now, on the subject of black cougars, the odds of seeing a black (melanistic) cougar are approximately the same as seeing an albino. Now, has anyone seen an albino cougar before? It could happen.
Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on July 12, 2003, 08:25 AM:
I couldn't resist!!! This same subject came up over at Trapperman.com and one of the guys there brought this photo up and said he pulled it off of Yahoo. Like I said to Leonard, the timing was perfect for posting it here. I did "take" the pic.....I took it from Trapperman.com!!! HeHe.
I do not know for sure what kind of cat this really is, but I do know it is not a Mt. Lion. the head is much too large, and the body shape is not right. So, Vic, your still safe with that bet. My guess is a leapard. This does show that a black color phase can show up on any animal from time to time. I believe they do exist and maybe if the Lord blesses me, I will get one that has been seen here in Cottonwood by at least 3 different people. We do know it is a female as she had 2 big cubs with her. I do have a jet black coon that I called in and shot in Indiana last Nov. No black mask, no rings at all on the tail, just coal black from head to tail. What was so nice about this night that I called and shot this coon, was my good friend Larry, on the same night and not more than a half mile from this coon's location shot a full albino coon that I called in only 30 minutes later! What are the odds of that happening?
I am not a betting man, never have been, but I do like to play a pratical joke from time to time! Like I said the timing was perfect, and I couldn't resist.HeHe!
Steve
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 12, 2003, 09:44 AM:
Yikes! We've been had!
However, a quick reread shows that nobody swallowed it whole.
(give that boy thirty minutes detention)
Good hunting. LB
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on July 13, 2003, 10:27 AM:
This is Frank's varmint hunting rig, it's called a Yak 52. We're going down to Mexico Onza hunting in it.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 13, 2003, 10:34 AM:
Great rig onecoyote....if you happen to fly over my part of the world....drop my c-note in a bottle...I'll have an "X" laid out in lime in my horse pasture:)
~Az-Hunter~
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" There are no photos of black mt lions....because, there are no black mt lions"
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