This is topic A quick reminder in forum Optics forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on November 12, 2006, 09:56 AM:
I recieved a quick reminder today of why I hate Leupold still. I went out for a couple quick stands today. I have a new AR in .204 that I really like so far. I shot 4 or 5 coyotes with it at Rawlins and am really pleased. I had put a Leupold 3x9 with AO that I had around on it and thought I was set. I had a good Burris on my other AR that I sold to Brad Norman and being the good guy that I am I let him buy the scope also. So today, I call in a spot that gets hit alot and the coyotes are pretty wise. I screwed with a pair for about 20 minutes to get them in a position for a shot, and they weren't any too fast to get there and I had set up for them to circle for the wind because I knew they would. As they pop over the ridge in the exact spot I predicted, I pick up my AR thinking I'm headed for the fur shed but I find that I have no crosshairs and a big chunk of something broke loose inside. So I let those two walk a little wiser yet. This is the 4th or 5th Leupold I have had go to crap in the last few years. I have a newer 4.5 to 14 Vari X 3 that the paralax is screwed up on and it won't focus that I was going to send in this winter, so now I guess I can cheapen up the shipping and send two at once. I can look forward to getting them back in a few months after winter calling is over if they are as speedy as usual.
Posted by sporterweight (Member # 189) on November 12, 2006, 12:46 PM:
I hear leupold has great customer service ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
!<--Plenty of practice.
Bummer on missing the call wise coyotes.ME
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 12, 2006, 01:10 PM:
I'm starting to see a pattern here. I have used leopold for years and as of yet to have a problem with them. My guns get banged around some but i pay strict attention to the scope to insure it don't get banged up. i always keep a eye out for it when i take it out of the truck or put back in. My guns rest with the muzzle on the floor and the scope and stock on the seat. i don't use those rear window racks, they can really raise hell on the scope. It dose'nt matter if its a 1000.00 scope or just a cheapy, you have to protect them at all times.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on November 12, 2006, 02:16 PM:
A few months for replacement? Has Leupold changed their policy on turn around time for fixing optics? I've sent back two Leupold optics in for fixing and both were back in less than two weeks from the time I mailed them. Admittedly, both problems for me were minor, and easy fixes, so maybe thats why it didn't take any time for return. I've sent in some Pentax and Bushnell optics that took months to get back. Dealing with Pentax turned into an ordeal I wouldn't wish on anyone. It will be a cold day in hell before I spend any money with Pentax again.
Posted by Norm (Member # 240) on November 12, 2006, 02:23 PM:
ta17; what is the pattern you are seeing?
The way I read you note, it suggests tht anyone having a problem with a scope is possibly not taking proper care of the hunting equipment?
Not sure if that is what you meant to say or not.
Cal, sorry to hear of the troubles and the lost trip to the fur shed.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 12, 2006, 04:00 PM:
Cal, you can't be given up those Burris scopes like that. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I stopped using leupolds for good a few years ago,gave/sold mine to my brothers,they're still a glutton for punishment.LOL I love the Burris scopes.Have them on my .204,.22-250, and .221 fireball have had no problems at all and seem to hold zero very well even with them banging around on the ATV and in the Truck.Good Hunting Chad
[ November 12, 2006, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on November 12, 2006, 04:56 PM:
I can only compare this to my previous service from Leupold. The last scope I sent in was somewhere around 2 months to get back and it was the exact same deal as this one. The ring that holds the reticle fell out of place. As for care I don't beat them on the ground or anything but they do get used. God forbid that you actually pack a gun around and use it! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
They will see a million miles in a pickup or ATV gun rack and Leupold simply isn't up to the task. I related this story before while having Leupolds wander out of zero and the other trapper in Natrona county told me to go Burris and end the problems. He is alot harder on stuff than me so I took the advice and my Burris stuff has held up well. One qualification for Burris though is that I use the higher end stuff. While I'm on this rampage I have to cuss Millet rings also because today while swapping out scopes I broke one of the "wings" that attach the scope to the weaver style rail. Cracked it right off there with a little bitty allen wrench. Maybe there is a pattern here? And maybe I am harder on stuff than most.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 12, 2006, 06:25 PM:
Cal: a company called Warne makes quick detach scope rings and bases. they make a quick detach rings that work on weaver style bases. i have a half dozen of them on my rifles and have had good results with them, and they eliminate the use of a allen wrench. they have a little lever that you turn and scope comes off and goes back on in seconds.there is also a scope out there made for S.W.F.A scope dealer called the super sniper, they come in fixed ten power and sell for around 400.00. i have had mine for two years now and am really happy with its performance. If you are ever in the market for another scope i suggest you give one a try, you won't be sorry that you did. Good shooting and take care...
Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on November 13, 2006, 07:55 AM:
Calvin,
Why did you have to bring me into this?
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on November 13, 2006, 08:16 AM:
Because I used your name to end some interesting sentences while watching coyotes lope away and thinking you had a good Burris Signature series scope on your AR. And you don't normally catch enough shit from me! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 13, 2006, 08:42 AM:
This subject is as serious as drinking the wrong beer, Pearl, Lone Star, etc.
I fell (hard) on a Leupold last year; about this time. (qualifies as a busy time of year, seems like?) It looked like shit, all dented up, and the crosshair adjustments were extra stiff and knocked off zero by about twelve inches.
Well, I won't say it came back to where you couldn't tell it had been in an accident. Actually, it looked like new, with only one gouge that they couldn't repair, it took two weeks and cost me nothing. That's pretty good service.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on November 13, 2006, 12:12 PM:
There's no discounting Leupold does, or has made fine glass for years, but the last two Ive had, exhibited problems like Cal has mentioned. Both were the VariX2 series, friction adjust 3X9 scopes, both I could just not get to focuse to my eye at least, to the point of making me almost nauseaous looking thru them?
Believe it or not, four of my calling rifles wear Simmons Whitetail Expedition 1.5X6 glass, with heavy duplex hairs, my 17 rem, the Burris 3X9 with their Ballistic-Plex heavy hairs,and its a great scope.
At the campout, I had the pleasure of hunting a day with Randy Shaw and Randy Reeves, Shaw had a gorgeous little camoed Cooper in Tac 20, that wore a Khales scope on it....now THERE is a piece of glass. When I arrive at my final one or two calling rifle battery, I might just have to spring for two Khales scopes for them to wear, and be done with it:)
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on November 13, 2006, 12:31 PM:
One or two calling rifles Vic? LOL How longs it gonna take with new ones coming out all the time? LOL Sorry but that struck me funny with the ones you have tried in the short time I have known you.... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Im having good luck with Swift scopes. Local dealer carries them. And though I havent needed it, the warranty cant be beat. Take it back to the dealer and walk out with a new scope.
I do have a Simmons ATeck on my CZ 204. Thats a nice scope for the money as well. Thats Vics fault as well that I got onto them.
Leupold makes fine glass, as do many others. But Im still not convinced a man has to spend as much or more on glass than he does a gun to do just fine in optics. I agree that good optics make alot of difference. But it seems these days not just one company makes good glass. It can be had for less. Warranty and all.
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on November 26, 2006, 05:56 AM:
Interesting Cal
My problem has been the opposite of yours of the 4 Burris scopes that I have owned two of them have been sent back both were signiture series and one was even a fixed power that the reticle broke on.
I have yet to return a leupold (I do have some).
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on November 26, 2006, 06:47 AM:
That is interesting Albert. I know it's probably just a "good luck, bad luck" deal. I know alot of guys swear by Leupold, I just seem to swear at them!
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on November 26, 2006, 10:04 AM:
Cal Taylor,
You are supposed to shoot those coyotes dead, not wound em with a needle gun and then beat the poor devils to death with a scoped rifle.
Lord I apologize for that right up there and please be with the starving pygmies down there in Africa--Amen
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on November 26, 2006, 11:15 AM:
Rich, You well know I am a big proponent of the 6mms for coyotes, but so far I am pretty impressed with this .204. I am shooting the 35 grain Berger and have even hit a running coyote in the ass and penetrated the hip and dropped his guts on the off side and stopped him for a follow up. Pretty good penetration. All the others have been in the chest and instant bang flops. It won't be my summertime trouble rifle, but it is looking good as my wintertime pickup and calling fur rifle.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on November 26, 2006, 04:03 PM:
Cal,
You are one of the very best coyote men that I know. I was jacking with ya a little. I do that to all of my friends, so you may as well get used to it.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on November 26, 2006, 04:50 PM:
Oh, don't worry Rich. But since you mention it, I have put a few coyotes out of their misery with weapons not suited to the job. Sticks and stones, jack handles, and a few others. My old Sako wood stock has teeth marks in it, from a coyote I thought was dead.
Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on December 04, 2006, 07:35 PM:
My experiences with Leupold have been a little different.
I own a total of of seven (two 3x9's one 4X and four 2x7's). Have bought all of them used, most with a couple of dings and scratches. Got my first Leupold 16 years ago on my first "coyote" rifle, a used Ruger .243.
A month or so after buying it I realized the scope was fogging. Sent it back to Leupold and they fixed and returned it fast, no questions asked.
Have only had this one problem in sixteen years and they did me just fine.
Sorry to hear about your luck, but I'll stick with them.
[ December 04, 2006, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: The Outdoor Tripp ]
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on December 04, 2006, 10:27 PM:
I might as well put my 2 cents in.I have a 3x9 leupold scope and its been on my 270 for 20 years and never had a problem.This gun has taken a battern around the country and i once fell and put a dent on the front ring and it still held its zero.
I do want to ask a question.Have any of you ever tried a red field scope?And what do you think of them?I been thinking about mounting one on my 243.I have a simmons here,but think the redfield would be a better scope.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 05, 2006, 07:56 AM:
I used a 6x18-40 Redfield 5 star on my .22-250 for 15 years or so until I swapped it with a Burris 4.5x14-42.Good Scope held zero well but was kinda big and bulky.My dad has a few on different rifles,4x12-40 5 stars,he seems to like them.FWIW Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Dusty Hunter (Member # 1031) on January 05, 2007, 01:34 PM:
Melvin, In 1973, I bought a Redfield 6 power. I still use the scope. Early 1990s, I sent it back to have the gas redone in it. In the 1980s, I bought a 4x12 and I still use it. These early Redfields, in my opinion, were really good scopes. The Redfields made today, I really don't know about. However, I can say that I would take an early model Redfield scope over a Simmons. That's just my opinion.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 05, 2007, 07:28 PM:
I think I agree with Dusty. I bought a Redfield scope, way back in the seventies, I think it was a 6X18? Didn't like it for my application and traded it straight across for a new 12X Leupold.
I bought a rifle at a gun show, a Remington 308, with a 4X Redfield on it, a long time ago. The rifle has a very low serial number, and the scope appears to be from way back also, maybe the sixties? Although it was a throw away, that's a jim dandy scope, and I have mounted it on a bunch of different rifles, centerfire and rimfires. I don't think I would be tempted to sell it, it has come in handy a number of times.
However, generally speaking, I don't have much use for Redfields, I certainly wouldn't buy a new one.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 06, 2007, 07:55 AM:
A couple of years ago, I looked through a new Leupold VX-1. It was a very fuzzy picture that I saw through that scope. Yesterday I was talking to a friend who recently ran across a fellow hunter who had a new VX-3 on his rifle. The guy with the VX-3 looked through my friends Nikon and remarked in regard to how bright and clear the Nikon was. Now I come back here and re-read some of Cal's experiences with Leupold scopes. I am convinced that Leupold is going the way of Black & Decker power tools. Build cheap quality goods and live off from your good name for a few more years.
Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 19, 2007, 01:34 PM:
I just bought a burris fullfiled II in 4.5x14 with bal plex retical and will be mounting it on a 25/06. So cal you have had much better luck with Burris over Leupold? I have a vari x 2 3.5x10 on a 22-250 and works like a charm, wanted to keep cost down on this rifle rig and will see how the Burris performs. Any thoughts on this scope anyone?
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on January 19, 2007, 07:03 PM:
Yes, I personally have had better luck with the Burris's. But I haven't tried the FullField line. I always get the Signature series which is supposed to be a higher grade. I apparently am pretty hard on stuff, or mine just sees more miles. I think riding in the truck and on the 4 wheeler is the hardest on scopes. In a gun rack on rough roads all the time.
Posted by blakyote (Member # 1064) on January 19, 2007, 09:57 PM:
I've been using a Nikon Monarch UCC,5.5-16.5x44A/O,for the last 3yrs,I really like it.I don't have any experience with the Lupys or Burris,but hunt with a friend who uses nothing but.My Nikon is just as clear as his Leupolds and a lot brighter than his Burris's,and the Nikon really lights up the nite.My Nikon has taken some bad falls,once it slammed into the edge of an open truck door when I slipped on the ice,I expected to here lenses falling out.I was almost sick,just thinking I just trashed the scope.But looking through it I didn't notice anything wrong.But checked it anyway on a target and light @100yds.It was still dead on.It's taken 3 other bad hits,but still dead on.One of these times it'll probably be too many,but I'll buy another when I need one.I've had 3 other cheaper Bushnells and a Tasco MagIV on this rifle over the years,so this is my first real scope.I haven't had to adjust the sights since I mounted it on the rifle 3yrs ago,it's a .243.It works for me.
Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 20, 2007, 06:25 AM:
my 22-250 is in the truck all the time too and I like the vari II. I looked at features on the Nikon,Luepold vari x I, and the burris fullfield, an in that 300.00 or less range I choose the burris, will see how it works out.
here is the break down from Burris http://www.burrisoptics.com/fullfield.html
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2007, 09:29 AM:
Holy shit! After reading that page, a man would have to be a total idiot to buy anything but a Burris!
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 21, 2007, 03:00 PM:
Been called worse. I've been buying and trading for new and used Leupolds since the mid 80's I guess, never had one crap out on me. I don't hunt everyday and I don't abuse equipment but I ain't gentle either. I have seen a bad one, it's been back 3 times and going again but me personaly, I like em.
Traded one of my Aimpoints for a VXIII 3.5-10x40 w/B&C reticle Friday. Put it on my Sako Finnlight in 300 WSM, don't figure I'll regret it. Burris scopes are too heavy for my tastes.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on January 21, 2007, 04:16 PM:
Tom, I got a couple to trade! Whatcha got?
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 21, 2007, 09:23 PM:
Cal, I've got one aimpoint left but I'm gonna keep it, everything else is Leupold. I am in the market for a 1.5-5 for my muzzleloader, got till October to find one.
My daughters boyfriend might be willing to trade a slightly used Nikon for a crappy Leupold though. We checked his gun before season and I guess it couldn't take the hard life in the safe, had to send it off, only took about 8 weeks to get back. Everyone is always saying they're just as good as or maybe better than a Leupold, except him now. He had to use my 20+ year old 4 power loopy and I think he's kind of partial to it. Think it's a 3-9 buckmaster, interested?
Posted by blakyote (Member # 1064) on January 21, 2007, 10:22 PM:
quote:
My daughters boyfriend might be willing to trade a slightly used Nikon for a crappy Leupold though. We checked his gun before season and I guess it couldn't take the hard life in the safe, had to send it off, only took about 8 weeks to get back. Everyone is always saying they're just as good as or maybe better than a Leupold, except him now. He had to use my 20+ year old 4 power loopy and I think he's kind of partial to it. Think it's a 3-9 buckmaster,
I've heard the buckmasters aren't that great,I've looked through a few and wasn't impressed.The Monarchs and Titaniums are a different story.Kinda like comparing a Bushnell sportview,to a Bushnell elite 4200.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 22, 2007, 05:33 AM:
It's called marketing.
I have a friend who owns our local toy store that is always telling me how "so and so" bought one of his (________) scopes and said it was clearer, tougher, brighter... well you get the point.
Just stirring the pot. I like Leupolds, doesn't matter to me who shoots what. They ain't the best but I can't afford better.
Now I do have a pair of Pentax DCF SP binos that are just as good as...
Cal, if you got a 1.5-5 shoot me a price.
Posted by slydog (Member # 389) on February 04, 2007, 12:27 PM:
Well Guys I have always been a Burris man as my Grandfather and Don Burris walked out of Redfield scopes in 1954 and rented a quansit hut in Greely Colorado where Don started Burris scopes. My Grandfather was his machienest. So as you can see I have been very partial to Burris. As with anything the company has been sold many times and each time the quality changes, sometimes for the good and sometimes not so good. This last time it was sold to Beretta USA and things have realy changed, I'm not sure where the quality is going but the personal has changed and therefore after a lifetime of using only one scope I have jumped ship and now will be using Nightforce. The first scope I got is the Best scope I have ever used in my life and I would not part with it for anything.
I went to the manufacturing plant in Orifino, Idaho and saw first hand the process that every scope goes through before it is shiped and I have to say I was very impressed. Not just with the process but with the product and the end result. This scope is without a dought THE VERY BEST scope I own and its not the last either..
While I was there I saw a scope that was sent back for repair, It came from Iraq and had a hole in it just in front of the eye piece and just behind the turrets. The letter sent with it told of the firefight that had ensued and then went on to tell how he used duct tape to seal the scope and used it for 10 days before it filled with dust and became usless..
Nightforce sent him a new one and put the other on display at the factory..
My scope is a 3.5x15x56 with a (R-1 retical) and as I said it is the best scope I have ever owned.
Cal, Glad to see you shootin a 20 cal. I have been shootin one for quite some time and have over 400 coyotes and 16 big game animals to its credit. The largest being a 740# cow elk killed with one shot @ 140 yards with a 20 yard recovery. I shoot a Tac20 in a TC encore w/MGM custom slydog taper 27 1/2" 1/12 twist Douglas barrel shooting a 40grn Berger at just under 4000 fps.
I'm testing a Hornaday 45grn SP and have tested every other bullet I can get my hands on. For coyotes I like the Berger 40 best as the rest of the bullets I have used seem to splash or explode on fur and cause non fatal wounds at under 75 yards and most of my coyotes are killed at 150 and under, this became a concern.
I realy trust the killing power of the 20
sly
Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on February 05, 2007, 12:37 PM:
sly you can legalally use a 20 cal for elk hunting? Most state have minimum requirements for ft lbs?
I myself would never use something that small on american big game.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 05, 2007, 01:18 PM:
There are alot of scope makers out there that use some really nice glass on them, but i look for other things on a scope besides good glass, i want solid click adjustments that stay in place, and when i make an adjustment i want the cross-hairs to move exactly the same every time. I also look at the parrelex adjuster for ease of use and repeatabilty. At the moument the two scopes i use the most are the leopolds and the super sniper scopes. Scopes are just like a new rifle or truck once in awhile you will come across a badd one, it happens.
Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 06, 2007, 07:46 PM:
also have nightforce scope , bases and rings. Great glass,internal,repeatabilty. Sighted it in 5 years ago when I mounted it and have never had to adjust ever. returns to zero everytime.I use the devil out of my rifle all over the country. Gets transported at -71degrees clesius from time to time at 43000 feet in unpressurized environment with no problems.Best scope I have ever had(and most expensive) out of many leupold,some zeiss,bausch and lomb, weaver .Shot many coyotes at 400-450 yds(ranged)set at 5 power and had plenty of image.Definately my favorite.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 06, 2007, 09:34 PM:
Yes those nightforce scopes are great. someday i well have one or two
Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on March 18, 2007, 08:46 PM:
I have a Leupold on all of my rifles. The older ones don't draw in the lightlike the new ones, but they are extremely durable and I have never had a problem with any of them. I had one other scope, a Redfield that came on my .25-06. Never had a problem with that either. Maybe I am just lucky. I am not easy on my equipment, they have been over the mountain and back, but they are pampered as much as possible. I always travel with the rifle at the ready or in a case, never in a rack.
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