This is topic Canting in forum Optics forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Coyote (Member # 498) on February 02, 2005, 06:38 AM:
What is the best way to correct canting of a scope. Both when mounting the scope and shooting the gun? Any one have any favorite ways of doing it? What are the expensive and inexpensive ways of doing it?
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 02, 2005, 07:24 AM:
Coyote,
I think that everyone cant's their rifle, even those who think that they don't. I know that I cant my rifle, and I think that a man has a tendency to cant pretty close to same angle every time he shoots. For several years now, I have been mounting my scopes so that cross hairs appear level to my eyes when looking at a hopefully level line such as top of a door way, or line where wall meets the ceiling. It works for me. I see no sense in making certain that cross hairs are level when rifle is level, when I know I will cant the rifle when I shoot coyotes. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Z (Member # 303) on February 02, 2005, 08:51 AM:
When I put the gun to my shoulder I look through the scope at a vertical line such as a doorway casing or the edge of a building and get it as vertical as I can. Then I switch to my left side (I am right-handed) and shoulder the gun and do the same thing. If my crosshairs are canted it will show up usually at this time. For some reason it never does. I must shoulder my rifle pretty much straight up and down.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 02, 2005, 04:56 PM:
Coyote, welcome to the New Huntmasters. Glad to have you on board.
First off, shooting from a rest, or shooting sticks, that's a situation where you definitely want your crosshairs as level as possible.
It's in shooting offhand where the canting seems to be an issue, if not a genuine problem?
For me, I like to bring a rifle up to my shoulder in an unconscious motion, and then open my eyes. Everything should be there, eye aligned with scope, no backing away or skooting forward.
When this is right, and the crosshairs appear to be level, I don't think that a slight tilt is any big deal. I think it is a worse situation, if you are bothered by a correctly aligned crosshair, then attempt to twist your body or you arm and shoulder to correct your natural mount. All things considered, you will not be shooting any extreme ranges in a strong wind, where a SLIGHT cant is going to cause a major shift in impact; (say 200 yards?).
One thing you need to be careful about i in tightening the ring screws. That action alone can twist perfect alignment, if you don't check it afterwards.
So, for me; guns I shoot from a rest or a bench, I make every effort to make sure they are straight and level. Those rifles that I use on the ground, and shoot offhand, most likely they will not be perfectly level, but they appear that way when I mount the gun.
May not work for everybody, but suits me okay.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by GUTPILE (Member # 448) on February 03, 2005, 07:15 PM:
Take it to a gunsmith.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 03, 2005, 09:52 PM:
tsk, tsk, gutpile. Those group hugs over on Primos have dampened your sense of adventure! Gotta step up to the plate, dude!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 04, 2005, 04:53 AM:
I know there are some gunsmiths who do know how to properly mount a scope. But I also know there are a bunch that don't! Some of the gawd awful sorriest off center stressed out just plain shitty scope mounting jobs I've ever seen were done by local gunsmiths. The guys at the gun counters of the local gun stores are consistently terrible at it too.
- DAA
Posted by CougerBait (Member # 149) on February 04, 2005, 06:03 AM:
For normal hunting conditions a slight cant is no big deal. Just about every one cants a scope. If it is a huge cant then I would correct it. But every one that picks up my guns says your cross hairs are crocked. I wouldn't worry about it that much.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2005, 09:09 AM:
Dave has expressed my sentiments, pretty much. I know I can mount a scope better than those guys behind the counter at Walmart, and the gunsmith's nephew.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 04, 2005, 01:28 PM:
It bears mentioning again, for under twenty bucks, you can purchase a "scope leveler", I see in the gun rags or. midway etc. No more leveling on bags at the bench, or aiming at cracks in the wall, or corners, or plumb bobs hung from a string,or any other foolish method. This thing attachs to your rifle action with space age material(rubber bands), and you could level your cross hairs with the damned rifle upside down if you chose to:) It's simple, accurate and effective. No more canting, you mount the rifle, and if it looks canted....straighten the damned thing in your shoulder so it's square with the world! Nothing to my mind says amateur, or hobbyist, than a guy with the crosshairs looking like an X, instead of square. I know Jack will call me on this because he can easily refer me to the shooting style of David Tubbs, now that guy cants his rifle. Thats apples to oranges I think, those boys know and shoot at exact ranges, so they can get away with it when sighted correctly. We are hunters, shooting at unknown ranges, from a bunch of different positions. It all boils down to muscle memory, even though you might have a tendency to cant your rifle, you can learn to adjust for a straight hold, but your crosshairs should be square.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 04, 2005, 02:41 PM:
Az-Hunter,
Yes but what if one rubber band gets one more twist than the other? On a more serious note, would you mind posting a link to site where we can but one of those scope levelers? I do believe that one of those would help set up a long range varmint whacker. One of those hinky little levels mounted on the scope might just come in handy from time to time. I have a custom .25-06 that I would like to rig for long range work.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 04, 2005, 03:22 PM:
Rich,
Here it is:
http://www.segway-industries.com/
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 04, 2005, 04:27 PM:
Tim:
Thanks much mi amigo, thats the little gizmo I was talking about.
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on February 04, 2005, 06:36 PM:
<www.sinclairintl.com> part#ACD "anti cant device" is a simply way to keep from canting when working up loads when a bit of cant will keep you from getting those tight groups,and for lining up those long shots.No need to worry about canting when shooting at something as big as a coyote, but shooting at something as small as a crow or pairie dog at extended ranges could give you an advantage when you would have the time to take that couple seconds to adjust for cant.Set your rifle in a gun vise,sand bags etc. so it's fairly straight up.Install the scope in the rings and just loose enough to wiggle it around.Loosely install the anti cant device just ahead of the power adjustment ring.Using a torpedo level,set it on the elevation turret of the scope and level the scope in the rings and lightly tighten the scope rings down.With the torpedo showing plumb,adjust the anti cant bubble to the torpedo level.The cant device is now aligned with the crosshairs,snug the anti cant down on the scope.Double check that the cant matches the torpedo after tightening,which will sometimes twist on the scope.Ditch the torpedo level. Using your shooting stix or whatever stle you use,shoulder your rifle and simply glance up at the bubble on the anti cant that's mounted on your scope,it will show you how much you are canting.With the rings still slightly snug, simply turn the scope a bit in the rings till the bubble will be fairly close after shouldering the rifle.This will take several times,take your time.Your scope is now adjusted to the way you shoulder the rifle and the crosshairs will look aligned and not tilted or canted.They weigh only a couple ounces and are very compact.Shimming the scope ring base-bases to the action if needed and lapping the rings will insure a proper install,should be done by a riflesmith.Does the average calling rig need all this crap,no.Good for piece of mind 'tho.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 04, 2005, 06:43 PM:
"Using a torpedo level,set it on the elevation turret of the scope and level the scope in the rings and lightly tighten the scope rings down.With the torpedo showing plumb,adjust the anti cant bubble to the torpedo level."
I've seen a LOT of scopes that the turret caps are several degrees off level when the crosshairs are plumb to the world. Using the turrets as a reference for level is not reliable at all.
- DAA
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on February 04, 2005, 07:29 PM:
It's reliable if you are using a Leupold and not something out of a cracker jack box.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 04, 2005, 07:32 PM:
Thanks for the link to that site Tim. A big thank you to AZ Hunter for mentioning that gizmo also.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 04, 2005, 07:40 PM:
In my not inconsiderable experience, no, Leupold's are not exempt. Indeed, the majority of scopes I've seen with this condition have been Leupold's. Probably just because most of the scopes I've dealt with over they years have been Leupolds. But, make no mistake, that "gold ring" ain't magic. The turret caps on them are NOT reliable as a reference for level. Not by a damn long ways.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2005, 08:11 PM:
This is getting funny. Talk about cheap entertainment.
I have seen a few spirit levels that were out of plumb. It's like, some guys need a calculator to do math, some don't.
I wonder if the scope cap, itself might be out of plumb, or the whole turret, in relation to the crosshairs. One solution, use a dot reticle; but I hate those.
Good hunting. LB
edit: what's really funny. The thought of DAA using Cracker Jack Optics. This guy uses 100% quality gear, guns AND optics, I'd wager?
[ February 04, 2005, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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