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Author Topic: Scopes Jon E Knows what it's all about Member # 403 posted September 30, 2004 10:58 AM                    Well the quetion is this, should I be looking at a duplex or mil-dot in a varment/preditor scope for my Remington 700 ADL in .223 Rem. I'm thinking along the lines of a 6.5x24x42mm or a 6.5x32x42mm with a 2 minute dot. [ September 30, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Jon E ] Posts: 12 | From: Kalispell, Mt. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted September 30, 2004 09:03 PM                       Jon, you may not like it, but I strongly recommend a plain vanilla duplex reticle, for most coyote hunting. Furthermore, the variable scopes you are looking at seem more suitable for long range squirrels than coyotes. For most daytime stands, you might be better off with a scope that would be suitable for big game. I'd look at a 3.5X10 or 4X12. Of course, I don't know how you intend to go about hunting coyotes. Maybe you are looking for a dual purpose rig? But, six power is too much for a good percentage of the shots presented on a coyote stand. On the other hand, 32 is way more, too much mirage, can't hold it steady, basically worthless, except for load development and evaluation. Not for predator hunting. Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Jon E Knows what it's all about Member # 403 posted October 01, 2004 04:30 AM                    LB Thanks for the feed back, and yes it is what I wanted to hear. It would be crazy to put to much scope or more than I needed on my rifle. Thanks Jon Posts: 12 | From: Kalispell, Mt. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged UTcaller NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER Member # 8 posted October 01, 2004 10:39 AM                    I agree with Leonard.The times that 14 power and up will come in handy for calling is few and far between. I have been using a Burris fullfield II 4.5x14 for about a year now and I absolutely love it.I bought the scope with the Ballistic plex,which has come in handy a couple times with some long range coyote shots. I usually keep it on between 4.5 and 6 power depending on how much cover I'm calling in. Only advice I have on scopes,is to buy the highest quality scope you can afford.It will be worth the money.GOOD HUNTING C.O Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Greenside seems to know what he is talking about Member # 10 posted October 01, 2004 01:16 PM                   Thinking along the same lines as Leonard and UTcaller.I don't think you need anything over a 12X or 14X for any predator work or even PD's. Duplex scopes are nice, but keep in mind that if you are planning to shoot PDS, that the top of the base post might be dead on at 350 or more yards. If your trying to get into the 500 yard club, that PD is going to be hiding behind the post. Does that make sense? I quess what I'm trying to say is that if you are planning on shooting long distance, I'd look into a mildot or a cross hair with center dot scope. BTW I'm using a straight 8X Leupold on my main calling rifle. Dennis [ October 01, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ] Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted October 01, 2004 05:03 PM                       Yes, Dennis is correct, if we are considering a 223 and attempting to make hits on animals out to beyond normal coyote hunting distances. If so, I have to admit that a mildot might be more useful, in that chambering. The key is; you did say: "varmint/predator" but it's hard to overlap long range critters with a 223, and still use for most coyote stand duty. Buy whatever suits you, but you may decide that a dual purpose isn't in the cards. Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Jon E Knows what it's all about Member # 403 posted October 02, 2004 06:31 AM                    Thanks guys... very good advice here. Posts: 12 | From: Kalispell, Mt. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged Jon E Knows what it's all about Member # 403 posted October 12, 2004 06:00 AM                    Now having all this good advice, I decided to try (notice I said try) a upper end Tasco 6x24x40mm regular duplex OA TT scope. I do like the fact that I can see my holes on paper clearly at 100 yds by cranking it up on the power I'm sure many of you have been there and done that when deciding on what scope to purchase. Posts: 12 | From: Kalispell, Mt. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted October 12, 2004 07:57 AM                       That's great, Jon. Just remember that the utility of a scope used primarily for predators does not necessarily include the ability to clearly see bullet holes, on paper. It's hard to shake the belief that you get more for your money with magnification. You don't, really. A quality scope may allow you to see bullet holes at 100 yards at nine power, maybe less? A recuring question is: at what range are most coyotes shot? The answer is usually closer to 75 yards, than 100. Does a 6X24 scope have the low light capability, when set at the lowest power, that a 3X9 has, set at 6 power? Again, most of the time, the answer is no. Most high variables that I have seen/used, are strictly bright sunshine scopes. Fine for punching paper but lacking when the weather gets snotty. Forgot to mention the mirage you will get on those bright sunshine days, where the target shimmys, flips and dances all over the place. When you sit back and consider the mission, 99 out of 100 experienced predator hunters will tell you to buy a scope of moderate power....for the stated application. That one guy, that I am aware of, Ed Sceery himself, uses a 6X18, last I heard? Can't argue with him, but for us mere mortals, we prefer something like a 3.5X10; possibly a little more, possibly a little less, if there is any chance of the rig being used for a dual purpose. To my mind, a predator rifle, except for the caliber, should look more like a big game rifle, than a "varmint" rifle. Good luck, LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Cal Taylor Knows what it's all about Member # 199 posted October 12, 2004 03:23 PM                    I know of a few guys that use more power Leonard, myself being one of them. I run a 6X24 Burris on my main squeeze. It is set at 14 all the time. I use the high power (20 to 24X) for a spotting scope occasionally if I'm looking at what may be a coyote laying on a hillside a mile or so away especially if looking for a den etc.. I have shot coyotes standing, running, close, far, and I never change from 14X. I know I'm not the only one. Cenny Burnell, the trapper/denner for a neighboring county and whom I call with sometimes runs the exact same setup as I do. Tim Fish, another Govt. employee for Natrona county also runs a Burris, a 6X18 and I know he runs it at over 12 all the time. Myself not withstanding, these guys are deadly, I've hunted with them both quite a bit, and they like the extra power, as do I. But I wouldn't reccomend it for someone thats not really familiar with their rifle. What I mean is when I pick up my rifle and point it at a coyote, when I look through the scope, the coyote is in it. I know from guiding hunters that many of them can't point their rifle to where an animal is standing. They are looking all over with their rifles trying to get an animal in the scope. For me that not the case. Anyway, not all callers are stuck at 6X. -------------------- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. FoxPro Field Staff Member Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted October 12, 2004 05:49 PM                       okay, okay, 98 out of 100. I understand, Cal. Wide open spaces, and such. But, I suspect that you could scrape by with a little less, if you had to, right? But, I don't know Jon, or his skill level, so..... I do agree that 14X is the upper limit, for my style, but I rarely move it beyond 6. As one famous Guru maintains, you should call them in a little closer and you won't need all those X's. Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Cal Taylor Knows what it's all about Member # 199 posted October 12, 2004 06:13 PM                    I know, I Know, Leonard. But I must not be a good enough caller, because I still get some hang ups. And while some gurus can let those walk (or maybe they never see them) there are times (contests and sheep killers) that I will need to kill a coyote at a few hundred yards. But I even like the 100 yarders and less at higher power. I can pick the hair that I'm about to split. -------------------- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. FoxPro Field Staff Member Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged Tim Behle Administrator MacNeal Sector Member # 209 posted October 12, 2004 07:15 PM                       Gee Cal, If you'd just buy yourself a dozen or so of those miracle Airdorks, you wouldn't have any problem at all getting them inside of fifty yards Sorry, couldn't resist, I'll crawl back under my rock now -------------------- Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass kickin'. Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged Cal Taylor Knows what it's all about Member # 199 posted October 13, 2004 07:01 AM                    Tim, now don't be hiding under any rocks. Don't you remember my picture? I don't have any of those over grown poodle looking creatures, but I do have a dog or two that will bring a coyote back. -------------------- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. FoxPro Field Staff Member Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged Jon E Knows what it's all about Member # 403 posted October 13, 2004 08:29 AM                    My rifle/s are for duel purpose, and the thought of shooting pairie dogs sure beats shooting bowling pins at 600 yards with my Target Grey® M77 Mark II Target .308 http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7887&return=Y Yes, bowling pins are hard to see at 600 yards but none the less make good practice, and a scope with plenty of power is what I like. After I set up my Remington 700 ADL .223 I went to the range and after aquiring my zero at 1.5" high at 100 yards, I shot a 5 shot group that if there was a coin smaller than a dime it would have covered the hole. I said hole because it looks like one ragged hole that you could cover with the end of a #2 pencil. Now having said this, conditions have to be right, trigger either re-adjusted or a nice Jewel or Timmey would be better. No side wind, upward draft, heat flucuation from the ground up etc, etc, etc. I was using the underground tubes that we have at our range. Yes, I was sand-bagged and had a good rest at the bench for repeatable shots. BUT now if in the field I, miss my target/varmint or predator it will be my mistake not the rifles or scope. You will never here that my rifle or scope is a peice of junk if I miss my mark. Now when I say duel purpose, thats what I mean. Coyotes, Pairie Dogs and Gophers and if I got a pairie dog popping his head up at 300 yards I want to see that little 2"x2" spot as well as Mr Coyote at 100 or 200 yards out up close and personal. I will have the ability to keep it on 6x if I choose for the closer shots, and may not go beyond 14x for the longer shots. Who cares, but me, I'm sure if I tag a few coyotes and pairie dogs, they won't either. I have alot of timbered area here, BUT we have alot of farm land here that is flat as well. Anyone ever been to the Flathead area of Montana? http://www.fcvb.org/index.php Driving south of here towards Polson there is alot of flatland around Elmo, Rollins and Daton etc that you can reach out on. Go east of the Rockies and you got land the just flat out stretches beyond sight. I do appriciate all the feed back though. Your right about a 6x24x40mm scope not being for the in-experienced shooter, it would be better if they stayed in a lowered power scope. [ October 13, 2004, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Jon E ] Posts: 12 | From: Kalispell, Mt. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted October 14, 2004 04:26 PM                       Cal, I just noticed that Wyoming is trending toward JOHN KERRY! Colorado's excuse is Denver, but, hey? Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 32363 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged

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