quote:

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Factory chambers:
-25-06 max length shows 2.494". Actual chamber measures 2.525". Difference of .031"
-30-06 max length shows 2.494". Actual chamber measures 2.512". Difference of .018"
-338WM max length shows 2.500". Actual chamber measures 2.533". Difference of .033"

So how about some chambers with custom reamers? Surely they have to be right on the specs....right?
-17-223 reamer print shows 1.770". Actual chamber measures 1.775" or .005" longer than the print. Think that might cause you some gas if not caught?
-30BR reamer print shows 1.520". Actual chamber length measures 1.520"
-6PPC real-deal BR chamber. Print shows 1.510". Actual chamber measures 1.530"

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quote:

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Here's the Queen Bee Mother of factory chambers that I've checked. My pal Tom has a pre '64 Model 70 in 270 that was giving him all sorts of over pressure indicators...flat primers and a heavy bolt lift with mild loads. I stuck the Hawkeye in there and it was hard to tell when the neck ended and the throat began. After removing all traces of the hard carbon (long process), I checked the chamber length. SAMMI length is 2.540". It measures 2.592"! shocked That extra .052" had been a trap for carbon for decades! The build up eventually caused high pressure signs. After clearing the build up and some new brass, it shot well...or at least as well as it should have.

Good shootin' smile -Al

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[ March 14, 2026, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2026, 01:31 AM:
 
Ok ............. Question from a 'Yank the trigger / Rifle makes a loud noise' guy.

If you trim the cases several times because the brass 'flows', isn't the inside dimensions & case capacity increasing a wee bit each time ???? Adds up after a while ??? It wouldn't be much but when you guys are talking thousandths or ten thousandths of an inch and weights in grains .............????
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2026, 05:07 AM:
 
Koko when brass flows in a case it comes from base of case called web area, let's just say up about 1/2 inch from rim of case. It continues to flow up to end of case mouth and this is what is trimmed. Some cases the brass flows more than others like a 22-250 for example. How much can't really say as I don't keep track i just trim them if needed.
If you inspect the web area and run a finger nail up and down sometimes you will feel where a separation is going to start. Another way is take a paper clip and straighten it out then bend slight hook at one end and file a point to it. run the wired down inside the case to the web area and you will feel where the brass is starting to separate.
over time if you reload the cases and don't catch it one day when you go to extract a fired case you will pull off the case-head and rest stays inside the chamber. For a 22-250 you need a short cleaning rod, and a 30 cal. bore brush and shove it up inside the remaining stuck case and then it should pull out with the brush. Easy fix.

Now here is the kicker with Ackley brass. by changing shoulder to say 40 degrees you can slow down or reduce the amount of brass flow to end of the case mouth, but the brass still will flow up to the shoulder and then stop. and over time you will get a separation in the web area or just below the shoulder thus leaving the shoulder of case and the neck stuck inside your chamber.
I've had it happen both ways in a 22-250 ackley and there nothing you can do about it other than toss brass before it happens. Not end of the world but it could ruin a hunt if you don't have spare rifle along. I know what to watch for so it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen at some point in time you can bank on it.
If you are loading mild loads or a little less than max, you gain a little more time and few more reloads from a case but sooner or later it will happen.
22-250 also likes to build up excess brass in the neck walls thus making the necks thicker and over time can start to pinch the bullet and create more pressure. I have had this happen back in day when I just had one rifle and limited on cases and reloaded it too many times. I usually try not to go past 5-12 reloading's with a case but also keep in mind I don't baby my loads, if manual says 38.0 gr. of powder is safe max load, then that's what I use. If a guy gets 20 reloads from a case great, I'm happy for them.
I still have my separated brass in a box in reloading room. You look closely where it separated you can see how it was worn away over time and has little taper along its edges.
Cases fired in a semi-auto grow pretty bad and almost need be trimmed every reloading unless you know what the exact specs are for your chamber you can maybe get two more reloads before you trim. Most people don't know what the specs are other than a chamber print and that is not always accurate as you can see from a earlier post with actual numbers.
Ackley cases are not perfect!
Brass flows like the weight on a woman you never know where she is going to get fat or thin just does. or in some case a skinny woman just stays skinny. LOL
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2026, 07:06 AM:
 
Interesting ........... and as some of us in archery are known to say; "Anything worth doing is worth OVER doing".

I was thinking along the lines that if the inside dimensions of the case change over time / reloads, then the best load for a new case might not still be exactly right for an older one.

Ok .......... Winds not blowing; Time to fling some arrows.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2026, 07:25 AM:
 

quote:

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I was thinking along the lines that if the inside dimensions of the case change over time / reloads, then the best load for a new case might not still be exactly right for an older one.

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The change is so vary small and nothing to worry about. In larger cases like say a 22-250 when you add powder according to load manual that says 38.0 gr. you can sprinkle .1-.3 gr. more and won't make much of a difference either way. But when you reload for smaller cases then that little extra will make a world of difference and show increase in pressure. Like some guys worry about not loading to high so they back off on a load a little and you won't see much difference but depends on how much as well. some powder burn rates you have to watch they can be a little spiky on you or erratic. small deviation/S.D. numbers is what you want and should prove to be most accurate load for that combination.

We are in a snow storm right now 30-40 mph winds, had to drive out to farm and feed dogs early before weather got worse.

Cartridges is like shooting arrows, no wind or very little then shooting faster lighter arrow, more wind or longer distance then a heavier shaft or broad head.

[ March 15, 2026, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2026, 09:11 AM:
 
I have 16 recurve bows and 12 of them @60# all shoot the same arrow. A 29" retro 2213 w/3-5" shield cut fletch, max helical. 190 grains up front, point & insert. Makes it easy to compare bows of equal weight but different brands and I don't need different arrows for different bows.
Simple is good ....... Therefore extremely simple is extremely good.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2026, 09:37 AM:
 
I’m just not in the mood to parse our resident Guru. I get bored but do not think his theories are totally uncontested.

Just on the limited subject of long term rifle brass. I have experience with 270 Winchester, 6mmRem and 22-250 Ackley. Those are the cartridges that I have fired many times and recycled the brass. The 22-250Ackley case is a lot more durable than the others. I don’t lose brass because of “wear and tear” mainly, you lose them in the field. If I start with 200, 25’06AI in 2 0r 3 seasons I might have 180 left for various reasons and not because of imperfections. or damaged cases. So, 200 cases will generally outlast a barrel.

With 270, that’s been a long time ago, but I used that gun exclusively for many seasons. Reasons for attrition were degraded cases, one reason or another. But for every cycle there would be trimming the necks to length, discarding cases due to split necks and enlarged primer pockets, which you would not notice until attempting to seat another primer. If it’s too easy, you have to toss them, including a wasted primer. So brass just wears out, in several reasons. This doesn’t happen with Ackley cases. Additionally, because I do not load to excessive pressure. The easiest way to observe high pressure is carefully examining the spent primer. Flattered primers and cratered firing pin indents are the usual pressures befor mic’ing the case web.

I just never load my 6mm HOT. If I did, I might get similar to 270 problems. But I do not load hot. That helps to baby your brass to last many years. I don’t believe in brass aging. Taken care of, it should last 20 years. I vibratory clean all my brass, carefully inspect cases. Clean primer pockets, uniform primer pockets. Trim to length when necessary. I take care of my brass, kinda anal, maybe? But, it survives when taken care of.

That’s all I got to say. As far as what Tim writes, I tried to stay involved as much as possible but he’s hard to read. As is some of us can be. Guilty as charged. I can ramble, at times.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 15, 2026, 09:55 AM:
 
ko ko, with that many bows, do you tend to use 3 favorites, or what? 16 recurves and 12 are 60 lb? Are there a few you could afford to part with? I’m not understanding?

Of course, now I am reminded of my wife, dearly departed. She would ask, very innocently: Why do you need another gun? Hard to logically justify. It’s like, shotguns for quail and shotguns for ducks, shotguns for coyotes, shotguns for skeet, etc.

Then, rifles for deer hunting, rifles for ground squirrels, rifles for coyotes, day time, rifles for night time, etc. It just goes on and on.

You can’t convince a wife that you need 16 recurves. If you’ve managed, please tell us how it’s done. Inquiring minds would like to know! That’s valuable knowledge, please share it!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2026, 11:05 AM:
 
Right now, subject to change, my 'Go To' bow is a Damon Howatt Super Diablo. Good classic solid performer. I have two of them, both set up identically.
Others are classics that found their way onto my bow rack. A Bear Super Kodiak, A Bear 48 Magnum, a Groves Spitfire & a couple of really cool Pearson Mercury Hunters. Somehow, I'm a friggin' bow magnet.

As far as the collection goes, my wife & I have an agreement; What she doesn't know won't hurt me. In fact, that agreement is one of the things that she doesn't know about.
That & the bow rack's out in the shop.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2026, 03:59 PM:
 
Load 200-300 case for year or need, that's what I call long term ammo and yes, it will take longer to wear out.
I usually start with just 50 cases and just one season would have reloaded that 5-6 times or more.
If I'm getting low on reloads and have a hunting trip planned, I then reload what's been fired so far so I have a fresh full box. I take a felt tip magic marker and put mark on ammo that is the oldest in box and that gets used first and if a issue arrives I know where to look.
I did prep a box of 100 221 F.B. brass and also have a box of 50 and never got the 100 rounds reloaded just kept using box of 50.
So yeah, I can see how some people brass last for so long.
Lost cases yes I also get a few so what I do is when I reload a box of 50 or 100 is I set aside an extra 5-10 rounds that was prepped at same time, same brass so then I have a matching replacement on hand. so a ammo box is always full.
Back in day when first started hunting fox with 22-250 i had only one or two 20 round boxes of ammo and always reloading it when needed. It doesn't last long when you do it that way and also when I stumbled upon thick necks in the brass..
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 15, 2026, 04:10 PM:
 
I used and still have my Onieda screaming eagle bow, I just had one bow and used it to allow me to hunt deer if I missed the slug gun season or muzzle-loader season, basically to just fill a void.

I usually carried arrows of two different weights or same arrows but two different weights for broad heads. Calm days and not so calm days I had both covered I used the rocky mountain broad-heads or the Wasp's. Rocky mountain broad heads you can touch up the blades to keep sharp and the wasps you could buy extra insert blades. The deer didn't like either one. Been a long time since I hunted with my bow....

My wife mentioned too many guns one time or I was always off hunting in winter. I wouldn't say much till I got a fur check and then show it to her. Her eyes would light up when she saw it. And me being such nice husband I even handed one to her to do what she wished. She never bothered me about it since.

[ March 15, 2026, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 15, 2026, 05:51 PM:
 
At one time, my wife & I both had Onieda Screaming Eagles. She loved hers & killed a buck with it in Utah. I could never get mine to perform and went to a Pro Line designed by Joe Caldwell.
I used Wasp four blades for years with my compound bows but went to a cut on contact Zwickey with the recurves.
As far as arrow weights go my only concern beyond matching within 5 grains (+/- 2.5) is that field points, broadheads & blunts all group together back to 60 yards. Since some broadhead designs can give a bit of 'lift' and some blunts have air resistance from Hell, it can take some finesse with components.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 16, 2026, 12:36 AM:
 
Yeah, I remember going through all that trying to match field points to broad heads and then shooting it in my basement through newspaper to get it all tuned in. I carried 1 or 2 target arrows along and when I got set up in my ground blind, I would pick a spot to shoot at with target arrow to check my range and windage and then go pick up the arrow after I was done hunting for evening.
I never used a tree-stand when I bow hunted, to restrictive. I used a ground blind or hunt & stalk method. It was fun putting the sneak on a deer wearing snow camo..
Back in the day I learned to shoot with a Bear left-handed bow. I can shoot either way but prefer right handed.

[ March 16, 2026, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 16, 2026, 03:21 AM:
 
Instead of carrying target arrows in my bow quiver, I have a couple of Judo blunts for roving and an occasional rabbit. It's rare that I don't take a practice shot at something at the end of a calling stand if nothing comes in.
On the walk back to the truck, any practice shot that can be done safely with a likelihood of finding my arrow is fair game. Nothing quite like watching an arrow lob out and come close to an off colored bush or cow paddy about a 100 yards away. Builds confidence for the 30 yard shots that count.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 16, 2026, 03:33 AM:
 
Im pretty much one game hunter. If after a deer that's my target even if fox or coyote shows up. not going to let them ruin my hunt so just let them pass by. I don't eat rabbits either, so they get a pass as well.

At night when out calling I see coon all the time on way to or from stand and on to next I just give them little wave and drive by. I have also had Jackrabbits come into a stand as well as skunks and opossum and a few deer, I just leave them be. I take Nephew along at times though and he will shoot a coon or something as he is happy just getting to shoot something. LOL I will chew his ass though if I have a coyote in area and he pulls that crap.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 16, 2026, 05:51 AM:
 
Gotta admit, ..... I've never called in a opossum.

"I don't eat rabbits ....... "
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 16, 2026, 09:58 AM:
 

quote:

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Gotta admit, ..... I've never called in a opossum.

"I don't eat rabbits ....... " [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]

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I think you need to have a WT for that Koko. The caller seems to call in all sorts of critters.
Opossum, skunks, Canada geese, pheasants, wild mustangs, cattle, deer, owls, coon, wolves, red fox, coyotes.

As for eating Rabbits I leave that to Irish and Germans..
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 16, 2026, 12:50 PM:
 
Try having a herd of wild burros come in hot.
Major pucker factor !!!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 16, 2026, 01:28 PM:
 
I'm sure.
How about a skunk that decides it wants to empty its scent sack.
Had one come in so I yelled at it so it would go away. which worked but it ran under my pickup and then emptied out right there. It wasn't all bad as my pickup had cover scent for rest of the night.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 16, 2026, 03:39 PM:
 
When skunk REALLY let loose, it can make a well person physically ill. My Redbone HAD to go in the attached garage one night. She tore into a skunk and the smell was so noxious, both me and the wife were sick as a dog. The dog, however was very proud of her efforts to rid the neighborhood of cute little black kittens with a white stripe. WE had to stay out front out of the wind direction and we had every door and window open for several hours. Both kids were upstairs, never woke up and slept through the whole event, although neither of us could believe they never woke up, slept through the whole thing. Until Red went upstairs that morning and they chased her back downstairs. If you have heard that washing a dog with tomato juice will kill the smell, it did not work for two days! But Red seemed to like the smell. Go figure?

Actually, I’ve always like a distinct skunk odor in the night air. I don’t find it unpleasant at all. This was different when the thing cut loose in my garage, It made both of us quite sick, noxious! Too strong of a concentration! But Red was extremely proud of her self, defending the old homestead. She got all pumped up.

Good hunting. El Bee🐝
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 16, 2026, 04:55 PM:
 
Nothing like waking up early morning to a little skunk stink, makes you feel alive. LOL

Copper tangled with one on a hunt. I told wife we need some tomato juice. wife little smarter when comes to that she went right to a pet store and got bottle of skunk off.
Skunk scent is oil based why its hard to get rid of, you need something that will break the oil down or remove it. Skunk scent has been used in perfume as a base to hold the pretty smelling stuff, now days though it might be all synthetic.
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 16, 2026, 06:42 PM:
 
Something I have used that kinda works for skunk smell is a mixture of hydrogen peroxide, baking soda, and dish soap. I do not remember the exact quantities

Once had a pair of hounds catch one and both their muzzles were yellow. Five minutes later they were running a coon. So much for cover scent.

And before you say anything Tim, my hounds were varmint dogs. I did not punish them if they could catch it on the ground or put it up a tree. This included coons, possum, skunk, mink, or a house cat. But they would never run a deer, fox or coyote.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 16, 2026, 07:47 PM:
 
copper was redbone she only dog I had that messed with a skunk. I never punished my dogs for running something besides coyotes, just toned them and they figured it out. I know some guys go so far as use a rubber hose to break their dogs off from trash, I was lucky and had good dogs that caught on quick so never had to take that route. Now the pups that's different story they mess it all up and get onto something they shouldn't, but hey they just don't know yet. And the older dogs are there to help so can't blame them, but when I have to walk in and the pup is on trash the others see me they know the fun is over. Simple don't touch command sets them straight and same for pup along with friendly tone.
when comes to dogs everyone hunts them different and expects them to be that way over time, just part of the conditioning is all. Sometimes dam dogs would get coon on ground and just kill it and then continue looking for coyotes, its when I have to walk in it can get ugly when I see a coon bayed up when it should be a coyote. LOL
I sold pups to guy in S.D. for coyotes but he so happy to kill anything so he runs coon with them. LOL

Also from pictures you sent your walls were full so thats all that matters.

Edit to add my breed of dogs run by nose, eyes and ears and brains. Best time to train them is at night in the corn which gets them to use and trust their nose more and listen. I didn't always have time for that due to work but did get chance to go to pup pen and run a few at night, it really shortens the learning curve for them.

[ March 16, 2026, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 16, 2026, 08:22 PM:
 
Long ago, up in Olympia at an archery club I belonged to, we had a guy who lived and breathed for archery elk season. He would scout at least one week-end a month ........ year round !!! You get the idea.
Sitting around the woodstove in the clubhouse one day he commented that there wasn't a cover scent that worked. I was trapping fur at the time and disagreed with him & had his undivided attention.
At the time there was a trapper by the name of Del Kramer who had a lure business. Neat guy and he sold good stuff. One of his products was a call lure, name escapes me, that was pretty much pure skunk juice in a Vaseline base. Seriously powerful stuff.
I explained to my elk hunting friend that if he bathed in a salmon stream and then warmed the call lure to melting temp and apply it with a clean basting brush to his entire body the elk couldn't smell him; BUT it had to be complete. Down the crack, under the sack, between the toes ..... everywhere. I was joking with him but he was taking it seriously, as in 'That could work'. His girlfriend, on the other hand was giving me a look that could kill.
I moved away before I found out how that went down but if I had to guess, I think that he tried it.
100% skunk juice in Vaseline ............ Ya gotta be dedicated !!!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 17, 2026, 10:43 AM:
 
But, why? Give me a legit reason for such foolishness! My Redbone could climb trees, Tillie wouldn’t even try. And by the way, she attacked a cluster of yuccas peeled the bark trying to get at a lizard that was hiding in the thicket around the base of all these vertical canes. She never dislodged the lizard but I first noticed a rash on the underside of her ears. then her lips around the muzzle started looking puffy. I fed her sausage treats that I dipped in Benadryl. She seems a lot better today. But a few years ago, she got into something in the yard, and I have some unusual stuff growing out there, but have no idea what caused her tongue to swell up and expand out the sides of her muzzle that looked to be at least 4 inches wide! A tongue normally 1 1/2” wide is so swollen that it was hanging out both sides of her muzzle! I took her to emergency, don’t know what the hell they did because this was in the middle of COVID hysteria and they made me wait outside in my vehicle while they treated her, then hassled her out the door and told me to feed her Benadryl. Which I did, and used up the rest of it last night.

If she would give up, when they hide, she would be fine, but she routinely chews off fronds on my Sagos while chasing lizards. Apparently the Sagos are not toxic? But other things around here are definitely toxic, at least to dog. What she needs is something calming. She hates lizards! And she is too stupid to understand that a lizard will naturally hide on the opposite side of a trunk. Seems basic, but she hasn’t figured out lizard strategy. I told y’all that she actually caught one and it tickled her mouth so she spit it out! You could just read the disgusted look on her face-yuck! She’s no killer, for sure!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 19, 2026, 08:55 AM:
 
I ordered one of these last nights. https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=annealer
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 19, 2026, 12:45 PM:
 
I always wanted to anneal but never got around to it, and I couldn’t really justify it. Mainly because I never saw signs that I actually needed it. But can’t hurt. I was looking at the box with the rotery motor and all the holes and two burners. Slick rig, but I really did’t desperately need it. But, I knew it would be useful, and they look cool. What you are getting looks to be entry level. Good luck.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 19, 2026, 02:08 PM:
 
I dunno ........... Scroll down to the bottom and there's one for $1800.

I'm guessing that Tim might not have gotten the entry level one.

Remember our Motto; Anything worth doing is worth over-doing !!!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 19, 2026, 02:33 PM:
 
I only have few 100 rounds to anneal so I got the cheaper model. But you do know anytime you form a case down or up in size it should be annealed right away. especially the ackeys...
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 19, 2026, 03:03 PM:
 
Ok ............ Exactly what does annealing do ???
To me it looks like taking the temper out of the metal and ending up with something not so good ????
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 19, 2026, 03:59 PM:
 
Annealing softens the brass necks and shoulder keeping it from getting brittle, split necks and extends case life to almost double.

ensures more consistent neck tension for better accuracy. improves resizing and you feel the difference when you bring the expander button back out of the case/neck. Also creates better seal in chamber and stops carbon from flowing back or building up as bad.

One of issue with 17 Predator and too short of a neck, carbon flowing back and building up as well, carbon is hard to remove.
Ar's tend to get all sooted up as well and carbon flows back quiet aways with annealing you can reduce some of this in AR along with adjusting your gas block.
I use to use a swivel from a boat swivel seat and place a case in middle then heat the neck up and turn swivel as I went, it's not best way to do it but it worked, I guess.

The machine I ordered will be much faster and more accurate, so heat is dispersed more evenly and just does better job of it.
My Pred. and 22-250 ackley need to be annealed and it don't hurt to do other brass as well from time to time.

Also you can't always get the best brass out there for some cartridges and have to make due with what you can get.
Rem., W-W, Fed., and Hornady are on the brittle side. Nosler, Lapua, apex, Starline are better cases, but they still need to be annealed if used for a different case design.

[ March 19, 2026, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 19, 2026, 04:35 PM:
 
Ok ......... Thanx.
I'm pretty much just a by-stander in all of this high-tech reloading stuff but it's still interesting.
Plus, I can use the extremes that you guys go to too justify the extremes I go to building arrows.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 19, 2026, 07:06 PM:
 
just make sure you anneal them first.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 20, 2026, 01:31 AM:
 
Nope ........... I got a deal on a set of used shafts one time and was rebuilding them. Used a torch to remove the point inserts that are normally installed with hot melt cement. Turned out that they were epoxied in and it took too much heat to pull them. Annealed the ends of the shafts just enough that they failed hitting the bales.
Sometimes ....... a deal, ain't.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2026, 06:56 PM:
 
Annealed a bunch of brass and loaded few case and turned out well. I'll give cases look over in morning.
I loaded few cases up with the 62 gr. ELD.s and took them out. was big disappointment as all of them never touched paper at 100 yards so i walked to 50 yards from target and shot last five loads. Yep, the, all hit the paper but every one of them key-holed. I'm glad now I went with 1:12 for twist on my new build..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2026, 07:21 AM:
 
That’s crazy, Tim!

What the fuck happened? you need a detailed report on what the fuck you did! Explain yourself, exactly what the hell you did….because it is not clear, at all how annealing cases could possibly result in keyholing. We need a detailed explain! you did a bunch of wrong stuff to botch it this badly. Just admit it, we can be magnificently forgiving for stupid shit, just level with us-NO BULLSHIT!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2026, 09:38 AM:
 
LOL Leonard.. Its no big deal actually. according to Hornady the 62 gr. takes a 1-8 twist cause its so looonnng. I only have a 1:12 so I just wanted to see if it work or not. Loading manuals said it would work but you know how the manuals can be.
On my new build I thought about going 1:8 twist but if the bullet didn't perform like I liked then I couldn't go back to the 52 gr. ELD, in short order i be stuck with a barrel that could only shoot heavies. Good news is I stayed with 1:12 twist so I'm good to go when gun gets here.
The 62 is a nice looking compared to 60 gr. Chubbie's.
I have a box of the 60 gr. bullets so going to see how they maybe work, if not then I'll feed them to the 224 Valkrie.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2026, 10:32 AM:
 
Then you have to drive them faster.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2026, 10:56 AM:
 
That's what I thought but I'm maxed out.. LOL

Going out now to try some 60 gr.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2026, 12:27 PM:
 
I could have told you they wouldn’t stabilize before you fired a shot. That’s the problem with those high B.C bullets and that bullet 62 grain ELD has a B.C of .395….Buy you a box of 60 grain Bergers with there .278 B.C and be done with it. You’ll thank me later.😉

[ March 30, 2026, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2026, 04:00 PM:
 
yeah yeah but at times you can get bigger case to stabilize them if not too heavy.
I use them in Valkyrie so I just tried them out no big whoopy so nothing thank you for.

I did shoot some 60 gr. Noslers not sure how they stacks up to your Bergers.

I had a little bit of S-W wind behind and to my right a little and shot two loads of 60'S and then fired a five-shot group of my 52 gr. ELD.s. No corrections made on dials just wanted see how they performed side by side.
Groups were same for both, but 60 gr. groups drifted 1/2 inch more at just a 100 yards.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2026, 04:09 PM:
 
Chad did you know the 30 gr. Golds in 17 cal. have dam near same B.C as your 60 gr. Bergers?? .270 vrs. 271....
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2026, 04:14 PM:
 
38 grains of RL-15 and the 60 grain Bergers, are running almost 3700 fps in my .22-250 Ackley 12 twist and groups are .3’s every time I shoot paper. That’s with a 21” barrel. Give it a shot, and again you’ll thank me later.😁
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2026, 05:27 PM:
 
Is no reloader 15 but can get same results with two other powders. I get same group size with 52 gr. bullets. and no I'm not chopping my barrel. LOL
I also don't trust Berger on bullet supply. Look what happen with 17 and 20 gr. bullets.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2026, 05:39 PM:
 
Varget is pretty close to RL-15… I was getting close to 3850 fps when I was shooting this load when my barrel was 26”. Suit yourself,I’ve been shooting the same load with those 60 grain Bergers for 16 years and I wouldn’t change for nothing,they shoot great groups and kill coyotes very well with surprisingly little damage most of the time. I bought 15 boxes of them years ago so I’m good for a long while.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2026, 05:41 PM:
 
And yes I knew that about the Golds too. That’s why I bought a bunch of them way back when too. I think I have around 500 bullets left. They shoot extremely well in my 17 Tactical….

[ March 30, 2026, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2026, 05:51 PM:
 
Vargit, N-540 and big game all close. Oh i see win 760 is available again, dirty stuff. LOL
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2026, 05:57 PM:
 
I guess I’m just a glutton for punishment. I just really like Berger bullets. I love the 35 grain Bergers running 3850 fps in my .204 Ruger even though they have a terrible B.C(.179). They kill coyotes very well out to 300 yards.

And I love the 80 grain Bergers in my 6mm Remington at 3400 fps.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2026, 06:52 PM:
 
Yeah I tested some 35 gr. Bergers in my 204, H-335 did great. For some reason though the bullets was getting rub marks all the way around them. Not sure if throat is little rough or what's the deal.
Had some factory 32 gr. and 40 gr. loads and bullets was fine when I chambered them and took back out. According to bullet seating gauge I was .040 away from lands.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2026, 07:09 PM:
 
That is odd…. My rifle shoots very good groups with H4895
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2026, 02:21 PM:
 
Interesting! I never used H4895 in anything. I always thought it was used in cartridges with lower chamber pressures, IDK? like maybe 30/30? Never used it. Never used VV powders either?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: How can they justify $60 a pound, these days?

[ March 31, 2026, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 31, 2026, 02:46 PM:
 
It's actually only $12 a pound for the powder.
The rest is attorney fees, liability insurance, lawyer fees, haz-mat storage permits, taxes, more attorney fees, safety inspection fees, business license fees, short arm inspection fees, & 30 pieces of silver for the local politicians.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 31, 2026, 06:17 PM:
 
When I first bought my .204 Ruger 20+ years ago that’s what everyone said was the go to powder for that cartridge so I thought I’d see how it worked. Velocity was very good and accuracy was very good especially in a factory barrel so I’ve stuck with it. It’s alittle hard to find at times but I like it.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2026, 06:56 PM:
 
I'm just starting with 204 load work, It really likes the H-335. I do have IMR. and H-4895 I just don't use it much in anything.

CFE got some speed but did not group well but they claim the accuracy with it is about grain lower than max.

There is a new gun shop not far from me. He has two rifle chambered in 6ppc, one is a Ruger and other a Sako. both nice rifles.
And he has a very nice Weatherby in 25-06.

I was at two gun stores in Mankato today everywhere you look it PCR or Creed crap, bullets, brass, powder ect. Only saw one rifle in 22-250 and a nice used Ruger M-77 in 223 which make a good donor for a 204.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2026, 08:06 AM:
 
I don’t know that people, in general, know what they like, or are so influenced by advertising. This Creedmore propaganda is so stupid. Do men really buy firearms because some well known dude swears by it? I know there is some that buy a concept, like WOW! a Weatherby or WOW-Winchester! WOW, Seiko! But, a lot, lately is, WOW! Creedmore! pick your caliber, it don’t matter, but gotta have a Creedmore, because they are ultra-accurate! Say what?

I do believe there is a certain magic in a name or label, like 220Swift! 30/30 Winchester, etc.Everybody has a Dream Rifle, legit or not. But. rifle makers are shoving it down your throat, nearly by limiting the chambering of their rifle model. Why do they limit our choices? It’s available in 223, 308 0r Creedmore 22-24-25, etc. They don’t even bother to chamber 243Winchester any more. Used to be the 24 caliber wars were fought over 243W or 6mmRem. I’ve had a few of both and far prefer the 6mm Remington. There are (PROBABLY) the majority of shooters under 30 that never heard of the 6mmRemington, and that’s a shame, because the only thing rolling around in their brain is fucking Creedmore! Get what the COOL CROWD uses, buy a Creedmore, because that name, the mere label spells super deadly and accurate!

I almost give up! I am SO anti, go with the Cool Crowd, get a Creedmore!!

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 01, 2026, 08:54 AM:
 
Well I have to admit Leonard I was very much influenced by You’re advice to get a .22-250 Ackley Improved. And I’m glad I was. I think that is my favorite rifle to date.😁

But I totally see your point, it’s all marketing with the Creedmore line of chambering. I know I will never own any of them.

I’m just glad I bought a lot of reloading components years ago for the guns I have or I’d be screwed. They don’t even offer anything anymore for cartridges like the 6mm Remington. I have plenty of brass and bullets for mine so it is really a moot point now. Might have to order a few hundred more 80 grain Bergers just to be safe though.

Good Hunting Chad

[ April 01, 2026, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2026, 10:54 AM:
 
Savage is coming out with a 224 Valkrie in bolt gun soon. yummy
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 01, 2026, 12:11 PM:
 
🙄 .223 on steroids!!! You’d be better served with a plain Jane .22-250 Rem

[ April 01, 2026, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2026, 01:13 PM:
 
I have two of those don't need a third.

Need a 22 cal to fill void between 221 f.b. and 22-250. My calling getting better so need a rifle for those 60 yard shots. LOL
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2026, 08:00 PM:
 
I can’t believe you believe that, TIM ANDERSON!

I have been saying for many years, that anything in the 223 category is fucked up for those of us that hunt predators.

And Chad, it does please me that you took my advice and are well satisfied this many years later!

It’s like this. I have been saying for many years that the factories should be chambering the 22-250Ackley! The only one in the line that people are awake to is the 280Ackley Improved! That is practically a revolutionary chambering and I’m glad that people are getting smart.

I didn’t invent the 22-250Ackley, I just recognized that it was the logical and intelligent answer to the 220Swift. It just beats the Swift in every category. Creedmore is a blowjob concept. Does nothing exceptional, except lots of innocent people will buy a dream. I’m not saying Creedmore is bad, it’s just not able to live up to the hype. Lots of existing cartridges can do ANYTHING that Creedmore does, and in many cases probably better. I do not understand what’s behind the propaganda, but it is a force!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2026, 10:05 PM:
 
Well I have 2- 22-250 and soon will have 2- 22-250 ackleys. I have a 224 valkrie in a AR and no its not a 223. The 224 Valkrie holds same amount of water as a 204 Ruger. Parent case was a 6.8 rem. shorten and then necked down to 224 cal. Just short little stubby cartridge kind of like a 22 ppc but tad skinnier. Not designed to be better than a 22-250, that wasn't why it was made. The 224 valkrie was designed to be fired in a AR platform but I want to take it to another level.

Savage has come out with one so cheaper to just buy that when it hits the shops or I spend more and have one built.
It handles the heavier bullets well like the 62 gr. ELD or can be loaded with a 52 gr. Eld. its pretty veratile with weights, can go to 77 or 88 gr. if I like. I just hate the gas guns and rather have it in a bolt action instead.

Berger 52 gr. with B.C. of .235
Berger 60 gr. with B.C. of .271

52 gr. ELD B.C. of .247
62 gr. ELD B.C. of .395

Both of the ELD's have killed coyotes here with good B.C. to boot so what's not to like.

60 gr. Nosler ballistic tip has B.C. of .270..

As for Creed it is a little better than ackley just uses more powder.

[ April 01, 2026, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 02, 2026, 08:13 AM:
 
I have admitted, before, that I do not like the AR platform, regardless of the chambering. It scares the crap out of
people = MACHINEGUN!

I’m a little uncomfortable hunting with a guy using an AR. I’ve said it before, they are loud, loading, so people tend to rely on the safety, in and out of the truck. It’s ackward and ugly, and I am in the camp that it is fine for war, but not for playing war, and as far as I am concerned, I suspect that this is part of the appeal, they get all dressed up and feel and act like a soldier. They copy military styles and I suspect they get a thrill up their leg while “on patrol” watch out for ambush! My issued weapon, in the army was an M2 Carbine. Now that’s a cool weapon, clean lines, handy as hell, solid wood stock. I don’t care what you think, but that was a decent rifle!

Anyway, people have their preferences, who gives a shit. But….America’s Rifle? <shrug>

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

[ April 02, 2026, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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