The New Huntmastersbbs!: Buffalo Bore videos

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 07, 2025, 02:05 PM:

I have watched a lot of these and they are all good, but this one seems useful for those that wander in Grizzly country, and of course moose, too. Personally, I’ve yet to see a moose, never been to Alaska. Actually, I never had a strong desire to get up there. Even those Alaskan Cruises. Talk about BORING! So you want to dress up to go out on deck and look at the Killer Whale's. Kinda Ho Hum, for this kid, but I know some are thrilled. BFD. Wandering off topic, sorry.

Anyway Tim Sundless, forget how he spells his name but he has damned good advice and he is a gun nut of the first order. He has vast experience in the woods, the western and northern woods. And his experience shows. His advice is better than good, it’s excellent, and near as I can tell, flawless.

He has so many wrist busting large caliber handguns, I bet he doesn’t know the exact number? One thing I liked about him is that he likes and uses a 25’06, a rifle caliber that I’ve always fancied. Of course, I always favor the Ackley Improved version, but any 25 ‘06 chambered rifle is very cool, as is the 270 Winchester, which was my very first centerfire rifle, that I owned. I shot ‘06 in the Army, but until I got out and bought a real rifle, all I ever owned was rimfire 22’s. Anyway.

So, if you watch a few of his videos, you quickly learn that he has a lot of money tied up in firearms, both rifles and handguns. And he uses them, he’s not just a collector. His videos are very informative and authoritative, he knows what he is talking about. His wife is a fine looking woman with intelligence, BTW. Neither here nor there, but she’s an asset and knowledgable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dTNClr40A

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 07, 2025, 03:46 PM:

WHAT ???? ............ No .41 Mag ???? The Shade of the great Elmer Keith must be weeping over this omission. [Eek!]

Actually, a pretty good video. The guy seems to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 07, 2025, 07:47 PM:

Yeah, not there because it’s not enough gun for grizzly bear, in his opinion. He doesn’t think my Red Hawk 44Mag is enough. And I have a hundred rounds of new brass just sitting, already primed, I just have not ordered the hard cast bullets yet. Not that I’m ready for Alaska, but if I go, that’s one detail I won’t need to worry about.

And besides, it’s 71/2” and I have a couple holsters that will work, but it’s not quick to draw, ya know? So it’s not ideal but 5 center hits from a cool shooter is the best I can do. And the buddy I bought it from had it while he was up the 40 mile river. Oh, and that’s where he FOUND a 41mag in that river and asking around, was able to return it to the guy that lost it. Far as I know, it’s a true story.

But anyway, my RedHawks has spent a few years in remote parts of Alaska. However, Vic said he really preferred to carry his cheap Model 500 Mossberg with slugs. And said most of the other locals did the same.

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 07, 2025, 09:19 PM:

Something that I don't see a lot of ink on is the shooter's mind-set...... Grizzly Bear or back alley self-defense;
Take a shot with a hand cannon and see what happens or fire something 'substandard' center of mass until the gun goes 'click'.
If ya got reason enough to shoot once, ya got reason enough to shoot 'em all.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 08, 2025, 12:25 AM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZFg0JfYcZI

above is moderately interesting. Try it. But, a hundred elk is a bunch.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 08, 2025, 06:39 AM:

I understand what the guy is saying and in principle, agree with most of it.
However ........ He's treading on some really thin legal ice, damn near to the point of taunting Game & Fish. Never a good idea.
Like Granpa used to say; "The fish would'nd got caught if it had kept it's mouth shut".

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 09, 2025, 08:35 AM:

Good morning, Peanut Gallery!

Ko Ko,just thought of something Buffalo Bore said, that seems particularly valid. Talking about salvaging rib meat and not considering that it’s worth the effort, then getting busted by overzealous game cops. There is no doubt that they will hammer a hunter with little regard for practicality. They seldom give you a break on fish measurements, either. When you don’t have a tape measure but they do, of course. And I remember one year with maybe 20 guys, lots of dove flying at a peak time and here comes this guy with a home made device to measure your shell capacity! That shell restriction was probably written for a 100 years ago to detour market hunters. But to write up some guy that forgot to replace a plug while coyote hunting seems kinda chickenshit. Anyway, My view of game wardens runs to the negative side based on actual harassment experience.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I also remember one time California fish and game was searching a friend’s truck….just because he could, and was 3/4 of the way confiscating a couple bobcat that were not in season. But Lyle said wait a minute! then he produced his AZ license and his border declaration! The chastised warden put them back in the truck.

[ November 09, 2025, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 09, 2025, 09:51 AM:

Hell .......... I had a warden once tell me that a shotgun had to be plugged to hunt coyotes. [Eek!]

Fortunately, I was using an O/U that day but still ......... Ya got an unplugged shottie full of #4 Buck, ya bust a covey of quail on the way out and do a practice swing on them, warden see you and it's "You're in a heap o' trouble, boy !!!" [Eek!]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 10, 2025, 09:15 AM:

Richard, do you even own a shotgun? Have you ever bought a box of #4Buck? Perhaps in your Washington days or when you were San Fernando Red? Before your immigration/migration! I should spill the beans, around town; you ain’t a real native Arizonan, Bucko!

I’m jest funnin’ y’all! Take care, keep yer powder dry! hey, you ever tried metal detecting? I bet you could find some spent #4Buck, maybe some old lead bullets, before the Ban.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 10, 2025, 10:18 AM:

Well ......... I have my first love, a 20 Ga. single shot Ithaca. Killed my first deer with that gun back about '68. Distance measured in feet, not yards.

Since I really suck at wing shooting, my other shotties are coyote dedicated. An O/U and a Pump, both 12 Ga.
Also in the stable is a real beast; Savage .223 / 12 Ga. O/U with a 1.5 to 4 power scope. It's butt ugly but for cold calling in unknown cover it's proven it's worth more than once. I have a .22 adapter for the .223 barrel so this thing will do a whole lot of stuff, just not any one thing great.
Copper plated lead BB is the load of choice thru XX Full choke.
Can't remember the last time I fired any of them.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 10, 2025, 10:22 AM:

Yes, metal detecting can be awesome. There's stuff out in that desert that needs to be found.

Some places, like around Fort Bowie, it's actually illegal to use a detector.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 10, 2025, 12:36 PM:

Is that right? Why would it be illegal to use a metal detector around Fort Bowie? Although I can maybe understand it while thinking of Custer’s Last Stand.

And this is another of my pet peeves. They will let some University cocksucker collect artifacts everywhere, but for citizens, it’s illegal and they will take it away from you, popularly known as confiscation. I have found artifacts in the desert, every one on public lands while hunting. I just stick these things in my pocket, don’t document any of it, therefore I don’t remember where I picked it up, but when I see things that seen out of place, I pay attention. I think I have three or four scrapers, stumbled on in usually either Arizona or Nevada, and they look the same, for the same use and hundreds of miles different and yet they appear to have the same usage. Four inches long, triangular worked granite and all I know is that I picked them up hundreds of miles apart and over many years of wandering with a rifle.

I’ve also stumbled on what you might call quarries, Places where someone spent considerable time chipping and shaping artifacts and implements and all the evidence of an industry, shaping similar stone, one time jasper, another place obsidian and another place on Hopi land, granite pebbles chipped into rough skinning and scraping tools shaped by ancient man for a specific (what’s it called? “FIELD EXPEDIENT” would be a military description, then discarded, as they can make more, easily enough, someplace else.

It’s just fascinating to stumble upon this evidence of man, hundreds or thousands of years earlier, same place, and probably hunting, just as I but in their case, living off the land. These were hard people, if not they wouldn’t survive. Lots of evidence just laying around, waiting for me to stumble on it, It’s humbling and fascinating.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ November 10, 2025, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 10, 2025, 01:44 PM:

Somewhere in my pile of VHS artifacts I have a tape of a re-enactor making a spearpoint with a hammerstone. There's a dead calf to represent the 'kill' to be butchered. The spearpoint is modified with the hammerstone for heavy duty cutting and the small flakes (razor sharp) set aside for fine slicing. With the meat drying on jerky racks the point is again modified for use as a scraper for the hide. That done, what was the point was then fashioned into a knife and hafted, again by percussion flaking with a hammer stone.
The guy made it all look so easy. ........... Believe me, it ain't !!!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 10, 2025, 10:53 PM:

I’m sure you are right. As I understand, there are a few methods. Like pressure flaking with antler. I think I saw a You Tube video once of a guy that made some elaborate stuff and now I don’t remember what it was called, but very expertly done. So I guess a fella can learn it with enough determination. I only have one obsidian point and it’s small enough that it could have been an arrowhead. The thing is, many you think of as “arrowheads” are way too heavy that shooting them with a bow is not possible. Think maybe less than 3/4” and they are so delicate, they will probably shatter if they hit anything besides flesh. Primitive bows were not very strong. From what I’ve seen they would pull them back from the hip and let go immediately, nothing like modern, or even Midevil archers. I could be wrong but I’ve seen a few demonstrations of specific Comanche and Sioux types. You probably know more about that than I do?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 11, 2025, 08:16 AM:

Ok ................ This got me curious. Went out and weighed some stone heads on the Grain scale.
Had to estimate the total weight of a couple of broken ones. Interesting results.
The smaller heads that would seem to be the proper shooting size were between 126 and 202 Grains.
Larger heads that seem more like lance points were anywhere from 420 to 600 Grains. In my mind, awfully heavy to be shooting out of a simple self-bow.
My own set-up is 180 Grains, point, adapter & insert for a 14% Forward of Center balance point.
'Assuming' that these larger points are actually arrow points they would give an extreme F.O.C. which, ironically is currently in vouge with some of the Traditional shooters.
The next time I'm in Globe I'll stop in the Besh Ba Gowah Park and ask some questions. Should be an interesting conversation.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 11, 2025, 10:41 AM:

koko, Have you ever heard that many, or at least some of the tribes used two part arrows? As I understand, the rear was substantial length of wood from a branch or twig. The front would be of reed with a point and jammed onto the wood section. The problem, before fletching became popular was that a uni type stick would be far too heavy for true flight, they would nose over instead of sailing straight. This technology was hundreds of years in development. What we see in the movies, the learned scout would examine an intact shaft briefly and announce the name of the tribe that used this arrow based on some markings that made them distinctive from every other tribe. Possibly BS.

While some of it may be due to the availability of certain types of trees or bushes, (for shafts) It seems to me that these people could be sworn enemies and trading partners at the same time. Like, a tribe that had never seen a white man might have a trade tomahawk that he got in exchange for furs or beads, since they loved their ornamentation. Or blankets. Other than Navajo, I doubt many of them were weaving their own Egyptian cotton sheets and pillow cases.

Another interesting commodity was Teepee poles. I have heard that the closest location for Lodgepole pine was in Minnesota, since that’s where the Sioux came from originally. But when you think about it, they were setting up Teepees a thousand miles from Minnesota. Other tribes like apache made a wiki up by bending branches into a hut and maybe throwing skins over the top.

One device I always thought was clever as hell was to take nicely shaped war club head and jambing it into a branch of a tree and leaving it for the branch to grow around it next year and then harvesting a nice hafted weapon. So that’s a type of long range planning you don’t see much of today.

All of these territories were as flexible as their ability to defend the land. Once they burned all the firewood in some place they kinda had to move on, if they wanted to be warm next year, but that doesn’t mean that they can claim a thousand miles of prairie as ancestral hunting grounds. Easy to claim but difficult to defend and that’s where the rubber meets the road.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ November 11, 2025, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 11, 2025, 12:55 PM:

The two part projectile goes back to the days of the Atlatl. A 'Dart' about 5 feet long with a hardwood foreshaft & stone point. Big and heavy for the momentum needed to penetrate the Ice Age Mega-Fauna. When a hit was made the foreshaft would break or come loose and the main shaft could be reused with a new foreshaft & sharp point. Much easier to carry a few short foreshafts than a quiver full of 5 foot long Darts.
Sooooo ..... With the mass extinction of most of the Mega-Fauna aprox. 40,000 years ago the Atlatl was no longer practical for hunting. Too much motion to throw needed to be stealthy.
Enter the bow and arrow.
In many tribes the two piece Atlatl Dart became a two piece arrow. The arrow shaft made of a light reed material fitted with a hardwood foreshaft & stone point. Most arrows break right behind the point so the foreshaft could be replaced, salvaging the rest of the arrow. If you've ever thrown a long branch, you likely threw the thick, heavy end to the front. Just works better that way & is the weight Foreward Of Center concept. Primitive man may have been primitive but he was in many ways clever. His arrows were balanced F.O.C. and with feathers to the rear (Birds fly so feathers on the arrow will make them fly also, Yes ?? ) He had a working system to fill his needs.
Different tribes had different styles of equipment and ways of shooting. Ishi (Google him) shot with the bow horizontal and released with his thumb. Very unique style.

Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on November 11, 2025, 02:38 PM:

The book about him is pretty good reading and very interesting. Especially for anyone that uses a bow.

Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on November 11, 2025, 02:48 PM:

You know knapping arrowheads or points or whatever isn't real hard but does take a little time to get familiar with the rock or glass . The late wife and I, when we ere out hunting and exploring,would pick up broken bottles or just chert chips and knock em out sitting around camp and would leave them in obvious places a kid might be nosing around. Camps in places like Desert Creek or some places up north that get frequented by people on the weekends etc.
Whenever we went back by them you could guarantee those points were gone.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 11, 2025, 03:00 PM:

[Big Grin]

Yeah, the Anthropologists and the Archaeologists hate you doing that as much as the kids who find them love it.
Probably illegal on Public Land though. The eggheads really hate knappers and think that they are the only ones to be allowed to even touch an artifact.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 11, 2025, 03:46 PM:

OK Walt, I wonder how many of your points I have upstairs with other artifacts?

You know a place where I used to find interesting points and other worked stone and jasper. Around telephone poles along the highway. The stuff dug up around the hole, after years of rain etc. I used to find nice agate and other pieces of almost gem quality chert jasper and other gem quality glassy stone. Around the loneliest highway in America Hwy50, lots of good gem quality rock, you know for tumbling etc.

There is a lot of stuff laying around, all you have to do is keep your eyes open.

There will be a lot of this stuff on the quiz, so pay attention!

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 14, 2025, 06:47 PM:

Got a new AR barrel on the way and nephew picked up a suppressor. I'll wait for mine after first of the year and price for dam thing be around 800.00..

Due to lack of snow around here most of the traditional hunters have not been after coyotes too hard in last 3 years and you can tell as the coyote numbers are getting up there. Should be a good year if we don't get snow again.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 14, 2025, 08:59 PM:

I’m just not convinced. First of all, my hearing has been shot since my Army days. Second, does that contraption interfere with the barrel harmonics? Don’t try and tell me your accuracy’s still the same.

I just don’t know? Here’s the thing. You can buy a Glock 19 for less than $500. But a fucking suppressor, as simple as it is and yet they START at $800 and the fancier ones, you’re looking at $1200.

Again, you can buy a real nice S&W 44Mag for $1200. Compare the engineering and the tooling that goes into that nice shooting handgun: then lay a $1200 surppressor next to it and start pondering relative WORTH!

I’m saying you boys are being fleeced! Those gadgets might be actual worth maybe $250, in my judgement.

I don’t know? Seems like a bit of a scam? Yeah, I “might” probably get one, one of these days; when they are priced honestly!

Good hunting. El Bee

[ November 14, 2025, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 15, 2025, 03:29 AM:

Yeah, ya gotta wonder how much of the high $$$ cost of a suppressor is to lawyer proof liability on the things. Somewhere, somehow, someone will find a way to hurt themselves or others with one. And then sue.
Let's face it ....... any half-way competent Millwright / Machinist with access to a decent lathe should be able to turn one out in a long afternoon. The engineering is not that complicated.
In my mis-spent youth there were even rumors of nere-do-wells making them out of oil filters, but I have no direct knowledge of that.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 15, 2025, 05:28 AM:

think it falls under pay to play type deal. I'll be getting mine without having to pay for tax stamp. I suppose I could build one but have to pay triple the price just for equipment to make it. Is a lic. needed to build them?
Nephew got his to play with we can mount it on any gun with threaded barrel, see how it goes, maybe I'll change my mind at end of year.

Yes I agree Leonard they are little over priced. Have you looked at prices of a new pick up these days? A few guys around here are just getting their pick-ups restored rather than buy new.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 15, 2025, 10:14 AM:

Tim, you know one maker is offering to pay the Tax stamp fee for you, now. The one that is seeing the Treasury or whoever collects the tax stamp money. Just saying, you don’t have to wait.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 15, 2025, 04:08 PM:

yeas to my understanding you will have to recheck zero after you put one on. the dam thing is threaded so you can use it to tune your rifle as well just like a barrel tuner. Maybe Chad can give you more info on it. But thing is you not going to lose accuracy or people wouldn't use one.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 15, 2025, 04:11 PM:

Yes Leonard but you still have to wait for it to clear, can't just walk out the door with suppressor. I believe here its like a 1-3 month wait for it to clear. after first of year I just walk into Scheels and buy one and walk out the door just if I bought a gun.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 15, 2025, 06:19 PM:

Yes, I do believe it does something with the harmonics. When I first bought mine I put it on and sighted it in at my usual 1” high at 100 yards. And yes I’ve found it to be more accurate with the suppressor than without and it has less recoil. But if you take the suppressor off it doesn’t shoot in the same place, seems like mine shoots 3” high and 2” to the left. But when I put the suppressor back on it’s right back in the center and 1” high. I’ve done it multiple times same result. Mine is a Thunderbeast 7” titanium suppressor ran me about $1100. You can get them in stainless steel but they are a bit heavier. But they are less expensive usually about $700-800.

Good Hunting Chad

[ November 15, 2025, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 15, 2025, 07:39 PM:

I'll look into that suppressor, thanks Chad.

I have muzzle break on my AR if you take it off its just like suppressor the point of aim changes..

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 16, 2025, 09:07 AM:

Yes, I understand the sales pitch, more enjoyable shooting and all that. I don’t have to worry about protecting my hearing, I lost that many years ago. And have you seen those outrageous suppressors
they make for shotguns? Man! You really need to be a TRUE BELIEVER to lug something like that around. They appear to be double barreled, maybe 6” wide by 7 or 8 inches long. Looks more like a cruel joke than a hearing protector? Think THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!

If you need some shit like that to protect your hearing, you need to take up some alternate Hee Man activity like knitting, or competitive pie baking!

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 16, 2025, 09:29 AM:

Don't they have 'Muffs' available that allow normal hearing but cut off at high decibel ???
Seems like that would work at the range. For a couple of shots hunting without, my hearing ain't gonna get much worse anyway. [Eek!]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 16, 2025, 10:15 AM:

ko ko, my hi tech hearing aids do that, limit the deciples to maybe 125db?

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 16, 2025, 12:49 PM:

Then ......... Other than the 'Cool Factor' you really don't need a suppressor ???? [Confused]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 16, 2025, 02:48 PM:

The “cool factor” never was part of the consideration for me. My hearing was first. Which I have lost a lot of. But once you’ve heard the difference between suppressed vs. unsuppressed for me I can’t go back. Bonuses are less recoil and from what I’ve seen accuracy. Draw backs are they are long and bulky if you don’t cut your barrel off. If I had stayed with a 26” barrel in my .22-250 Ackley the barrel would have been at 33”. But I cut 5” off and it sits at 28”. But I did lose about 150 fps in velocity. Overall I have zero regrets and I would not go back to unsuppressed but that’s just me. Shotguns are another story being suppressed. I think that is a waste of time. Again just my opinion

Good Hunting Chad

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 16, 2025, 05:12 PM:

I got two pair of the special ear muffs yeah great for at the range. Hunting I've tried them but they suck if wind blows a little. My hearing comes and goes and has alot to do with work, once laid off some of my hearing comes back. I can hear the seat belt chime alarm. LOL
Just one shot in open field has not really bothered me main thing is stay away from truck or side of a building in open its fine.
I will try Nephew's suppressor first and if I think it be ok to use then i'll get one. If i feel I dont need it then i'll go buy another thermal, I hate removing one to replace on another rifle.
I think I'll put it on my AR if its pain in ass on a rifle, length wise as I'm not chopping any barrels. will see in week or so.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 17, 2025, 09:42 AM:

i just don’t know? One thing, like on my truck guns, the barrels are 28 and one is 30”. That gets the explosion a lot further from your ears. So maybe thats part of the equation? You cut off 5” then add 7 inches of suppressor. You are still getting the explosion a certain distance from your exposed ear, if you are following along?

Then, Let’s say you are a target shooter. The repetition is cumulative, they say. But a hunter is out in the woods sun up to sundown, maybe never firing a shot, but you needed to lug that freaky thing all friggin’ day….to protect your hearing? Know what I mean?

Maybe when the price get’s more realistic?

Good hunting. El Bee

[ November 17, 2025, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on November 17, 2025, 07:15 PM:

Unsuppressed = uncivilized

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 17, 2025, 10:46 PM:

Hardly persuasive, Amigo!

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 18, 2025, 02:14 AM:

Actually, 'civilized' makes sense.
Less blast, less recoil, less anticipated flinch, better accuracy.
Works for me. [Cool]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 19, 2025, 05:31 PM:

if you say so. i guess? First of all, anything this side of 300 Weatherby doesn’t bother me. My 300Winchester is sufferable, but that fucking Weatherby is a bitch. I’ll tell you a hard recoil is a 12 gauge 3 1/2” DEAD COYOTE! those fuckers tend to jar your fillings loose! And seems like they are about ten bucks a round?

[ November 19, 2025, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 21, 2025, 05:21 PM:

Got my new AR barrel. pretty nice work on it. Came with direction for break in a little different than norm. and also a small container of bore paste for lapping. Nephew got same barrel about a week ago and his is shooting nice clover leaf pattern. Break in will take about 8 rounds total if that.

If anybody wants check company out it: Eabco Arthur Brown company out of Garfield Mn. they make barrels at nice price.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 22, 2025, 10:04 PM:

Again, There is no denying that we have a concentrated push selling suppressors. Chas, this is not directed at you, so please do not take it personal.

All the hunt mags, shooting and hunting etc. they are strongly pushing suppressors ‘til the cows come home. It is strongly portrayed as something, not only cool, but essential. It is the Rubric Cube and the Hula Hoop of the generation. I saw a slip up in one of the publications very recently, and believe me, it is RARE. Way out of proportion to the “actual” number of units actually in the field. Every hero shot these days must show the cool people with their cans proudly displayed. My personal opinion is that ownership is most likely hovering below 20%. We are a very conservative group, collectively and it takes a fairly intense hype to move that needle. No doubt forgiving the Federal tax stamp will help. but it’s going to take years before suppressors dominate in the field and at the range. At least ten years and more like 20, when you consider shotguns. The first attempt is Ludacris, so much so that it will NEVER prevail.

That’s my uncivilized opinion; for what it’s worth. Comments welcome.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 23, 2025, 07:42 AM:

with night calling and thermals being legal in many states its younger generation that's buying up the suppressors. Same group that sees a new F-P addy about new great sounds or a better E-caller, the kids buy into all that crap. Now you got the thermal pimps and suppressor pimps. always hated anything related to pro staff.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 23, 2025, 12:42 PM:

No offense taken here Leonard. I don’t care if someone gets a suppressor or not. The only regrets I have to buying one is I didn’t or couldn’t buy one sooner. Wish I could have bought one 40 years ago. That and I wish I had bought a 30 Caliber Suppressor instead of my .22 Caliber suppressor. I could have just threaded all my guns the same and used the one Suppressor for all my rifles. But oh well. Again being one of the cool kids never entered my mind.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 23, 2025, 01:16 PM:

There are some people, the Avantguard that have to be the first on their block, all the cool shit, etc. etc.

I like to think that most predator hunters are a different breed. They aren’t the trendy type. Fine taste, yes, but they think very conservatively, except Tim. lol

Anyway, as a group, we aren’t motivated to popular things just because everybody has one. If I’m wrong, ko ko, do not hesitate to correct me where I err.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 23, 2025, 02:13 PM:

Yup ........... There are those who have to have the latest & greatest technology just because it's .002 % better than what they already have. Cutting edge gizmos and all of that.
Then there are those who figure a 30-30 was good enough for GranPa & it's good enough for them. If it ain't broke ............
Takes all kinds to make the world go round and at one time, that 30-30 was the latest and the greatest.
What bothers me is more & more we depend on guides and technology over woodsmanship. I recently watched part of a 'hunting program' and I swear, the hero host would starve to death alone in a field of rabbits & ripe sweet corn. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on November 23, 2025, 02:28 PM:

Several years ago around the time Lucky Duck was just coming out with their callers, I hunted with a guy who was testing some of Rick's new sounds. His two sons were along as well. They were somewhere around 10 years old. The dad had a suppressed AR and the two boys shared a suppressed AR.

First stand a coyote came in on my side and I shot it. After the shot the boys looked at their dad and commented how loud my rifle sounded. A couple stands later, a coyote responded and the oldest of the two boys was to my left about 10 yards away. He shot the coyote. I could not believe it. No ringing ears. No concussion to my face. I could actually hear the action cycling. What a pleasant experience.

We ended up shooting 8 that day and I never pulled the trigger after the first stand. It was then I decided I wanted one. Does it help with multiple coyotes on one stand? I doubt it. However I did speak with a man at one of those expos that claimed it increased their coyote kills by 60%. How the hell do you determine that?

I don't give a shit about looking cool. Adding a suppressor makes shooting a rifle fun again. That's my bottom line. Let's see. Back in the day I used to blow a mouth call all day. Now I mostly push buttons. What a pleasant experience.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 23, 2025, 04:06 PM:

Koko 250 savage ruled the roost in these parts back in the day.

I know what you mean Randy and thats why I stuck with a 17 centerfire, about half as loud as the 224 cals.

Got notice this maybe my last week of work then I'll be out pushing few buttons as well.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 23, 2025, 04:47 PM:

Like Randy mentioned, now when I’m on a stand with someone that is shooting unsuppressed it sounds like someone is firing a cannon when they shoot, regardless of the Caliber they are shooting.

Good Hinting Chad

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 24, 2025, 01:16 AM:

Reading the last couple of testimonials, I get the impression that some peeps have a more profound experience with silencers than I have myself experienced. My understanding of the effect of a silencer is a 140-165db unsupressed to in the neighborhood of 125db, approximately. This is not like the movies, a “pift” sound, it’s still a noticeable gunshot!

Suppressors reduce a gunshot to maybe the effect when you are in the pit pulling targets a hundred yards away from the benches. They only reduce the noise, they don’t make it go away!

IDk? 125db is still loud. It’s not like; Wait a minute, Melvin! Did you just take a shot, or did you sneeze, a minute ago? lol 😂

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 24, 2025, 06:31 AM:

It would be my luck that I would get lost and the search party wouldn't hear the shots from my suppressed rifle. [Eek!]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 24, 2025, 09:51 AM:

Maybe that’s why the 2nd Coyote gives the “what the hell just happened to my partner” look right before I shoot him too.😂

Good Hunting Chad

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 24, 2025, 04:27 PM:

Chad with suppressor do you have to change or tailor your loads for it?
Also going from 224. cal to 30 cal. suppressor whats difference or does it stay same noise wise??

[ November 24, 2025, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 24, 2025, 04:47 PM:

Tim,
My load is exactly the same as when I was shooting unsuppressed. Only difference is I was shooting a 26” barrel and was getting 3800 fps. When I got the Suppressor I cut 5” off the barrel and threaded it. It now runs about 3650 fps. But accuracy is a bit better. They say when you use a larger caliber suppressor with the smaller caliber rifle it is a little louder, by how much I don’t know. I wouldn’t think it would be much though.

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on November 24, 2025, 07:27 PM:

Just to add to what Chad said.

If your load is really close to hot, when you add the silencer it will be too hot. I worked up a load a little on the hot side and had to reduce .3 to .5 in order to not have any signs of pressure. Velocity remained close to the same.

My accuracy also improved, however that might be attributed to the fact that a person starts shooting a lot more relaxed when you are not subconsciously bracing for impact.

The best sounding silencer is caliber specific. If you shoot a .224 thru a 30 caliber can, the actual loudness is close to the same, but the tone is much different. The 223/556 cans available today are mostly tailored towards the ar. For the most part this means shorter (less volume) with reduced back pressure so the firearm will cycle. Both these characteristics tend to make them louder.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2025, 10:03 AM:

So, if you are choking down hot varmint caliber, say 22-250, is there an advantage to getting one rated for auto fire? Maybe I’m just too complicating the process?

Anyway, you want to standardize the thread pitch on the adapter, as much as possible and then to make your “can” universal and able to be used on everything you have.

I want to know what covers the most “ground” for instance, if you buy the can made specifically for coyote cartridges, can you use it effectively on your deer rifle?

Or, if you think you can cover more applications by buying the suppressor rated for 30 caliber Magnums, will if be moderately effective on a 243?

I’m just trying to figure out if there is a reason for tailoring your purchase to a specific rifle, and what is it that makes one more servicable, universally?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 25, 2025, 11:20 AM:

Nephew showed up today with his can, his is 30 cal. and mounted on an AR with 24" barrel. I wanted to shoot it in town, but he wouldn't let me. LOL

He says it pretty sweet as far as being quiet.

I have a 204 bolt gun threaded, 22=-250 Bugara, and my custom AR in 224 Valkrie. Plan to get 22-250 ackley threaded later. I don't plan on cutting any barrel lengths either. I dont plan on shooting any bigger cal. than 224 and may try it on a 17 center fire later.

so which one should I get 224 or 30 cal., 7"?
Do I need one with muzzle brake as well?
I have not decided on a brand yet but don't want a cheep one or a high dollar one, try meet in middle on price. I plan to go through Scheels store as they handle all the paper work so may have to choose on what brands they have. thoughts/input on matter..

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 25, 2025, 12:28 PM:

When I bought my can in 2017. I kept hearing that if you want the best suppression go with the caliber closest to what you shoot. So I went with a Thunderbeast ultra 7” .224 caliber suppressor because I thought I would mainly be shooting it with my .22-250 Ackley, .222 Remington, .204 Ruger,.17 Tactical and .17 Ackley Hornet. And they are all threaded =1/2-28.

But after seeing a few other people getting the .30 caliber suppressors I wish I would have gone that route. Then I could have used the one Suppressor with all the ones I mentioned but I could have also used it with my (2) 6mm Remingtons and my .270 Winchester and I would have had all my rifles threaded=5/8-24 and had a 1 can fits all deal.

I’m sure it’s not perfect but it would have been fine and not broke the bank buying multiple suppressors.

[ November 25, 2025, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 25, 2025, 04:50 PM:

Thanks Chad.

I talked to O'Neal opps few years back on it, don't remember brand but he was big pro-staff for it I think his gun smith builds them or something. He went on to tell me his brand was the quietest on the market according to the sound readings they did on it, splitting hairs here. He said they used best sound meter there is to check it and others and bla bla bla. He didn't know at time I'm familiar with sound meter and how it works and what those numbers mean. Sure he may have been right about being the quietest but those little numbers he gave me of others didn't make a whole lot of difference, just splitting hairs and trying to blow smoke up people asses to make sales. and his brand was pretty spendy at time.

Well, I decided to fuck the tax stamp deal and decided to pay it. Got suppressor picked out and just starting the paperwork, also got a quick attach for it so it's easier on threads if I switch back and forth. I think the model I got is 5.5 inches in length. also found out its the same as Nephews but mine is 224 cal. and his is 30 cal.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 25, 2025, 05:21 PM:

Good deal I’m sure you’ll like shooting suppressed, I’m yet to hear someone say they regretted it….😁

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 25, 2025, 05:40 PM:

I can't hear anyway! LOL
I'm now logged into ATF, purpose of that is to speed up the process of getting it all done. Back to store and fill out rest of the papers tomorrow.

I looked at few suppressors and since I'll be also using it on a AR I needed to get one with a flow through system. (excess gas dumps out the front rather than blow back) I have a adjuster on my Gas block on AR as well so good there.
Brand is a Huxwrx, Flow 556K.. (Leonard probably pulling hair out about now) [Razz]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 25, 2025, 10:04 PM:

I am so unmotivated it’s pathetic. When TA makes up his mind, it’s explosive 🧨 and a $200 tax is but a trifle! Why wait, as Elon might say? Forget the universal suppressor, Dude! A discriminating gentleman such as yourself needs custom Tailored suppressors for every friggin’ gun in the arsenal. When ya got it, ya otter flaunt it!

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 26, 2025, 07:47 AM:

couple funny things happen at scheels store. They have a display case full of different suppressors with a little card in front that kind of explains type of suppressor and also the price and quick run off of its application.
Salesman comes over so i pick his brain little farther on suppressors and gave him idea of what i wanted. I got a little scared at this point as the salesman thought a 223 was a smaller caliber than a 224 Valkrie so then i would have to go to a 30 cal. suppressor. I cleared him up on that or schooled him you might say.
So we got the caliber figured out so he points at 3 of the high dollar suppressors. LOL I told him i want one in the middle on price. LOL

I got registered with the ATF last night from home on my computer as this will speed up the process of getting that stupid stamp/approval. Once logged in on ATF site they said they made some changes which start today to also speed up the process so we will see how long it takes to get approved. I'm also registered as a silent killer once I'm approved. LOL It can take little as 3 days or 3 month's.

Oh! My reason for getting a suppressor. Cause Shaw and Chad have one. how's that? [Big Grin]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 26, 2025, 11:28 AM:

And like Randy said, the only thing that I had to get used to was the anticipation of the loud boom and more recoil of shooting unsupprressed that didn’t happen when the shot went off shooting suppressed. I think they told me when I bought mine it would have like 50% less recoil. And it seems right from what I’ve seen.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 26, 2025, 03:03 PM:

I was not aware of what a brutal experience is for some of the Peanut Gallery? Just to discharge a weapon?

I’ve said repeatedly, that my hearing has been damaged since I was in the Army, and I had already served my 3 years and separated before I could legally buy a beer, or vote. Now, they fucked up and allowed 18 year olds the privilege. This is a serious mistake!

18 year olds are motivated by things that do not apply to adults. They might worry about a car payment, or getting laid, or having enough gas to get them through until next payday. Think about the silly things that you worried about when you were 18. It’s even worse now!

They are still on their parents car insurance until they are 26. I’m not sure about this, but it used to be that kids couldn’t sign a contract until they are 21 years old. Maybe they need a co-signer? I’m not up on the legal status, but a kid will vote for a president of he promises free beer. They do not worry about rent or car pmts. Usually, they are being supported 100% by their parents and they live at home and they abide by rules that their parents issue and enforce. 18 year olds don’t pay rent, their parents bought them a car and pay to keep the lights on. They are members under the parents smart phone plan, so they probably pay nothing and don’t contribute to the mortgage.

So what do kids worry about? Getting laid and getting beer and gas money from their parents. They always think they are so very educated, even going to college, (paid by mom and dad)

In short, they have no worries that an adult has, but some smart politician started with a slogan: Hey if they can carry a gun and fight, and die for their country, they aught to be able to vote! Yeah right! It defies logic, but now they vote and they will vote for reasons that responsible adults would never consider. In fact, I don’t remember what the hell motivated me at 18, but my perspective is way different today than when I had just barely graduated from high school.

IT was a huge mistake allowing the 18 year olds to vote. A very large percentage don’t bother for maybe ten years, probably not even registered to vote, don’t get around to it until they are, on average, ten years older. But some do, and these are the ones that would vote for Al Gore because he will save the planet.

It’s like that! You can’t make any sense out of their reasons, but for sure, the things they worry about are much different than their parents. Why worry, mom and dad will take care of everything, pay all their bills and give them spending money. What a deal!

For sure, they will vote for whoever Taylor Swift tells them to vote for! For a boy, it’s whatever some quarterback thinks will make the best president. For all those other down ticket names and propositions, it’s doubtful, or 50/50 if they even look at any of the crucial issues that everyone else is worried about.

It was a bad decision, folks! So, live with it or do something about it.
IDK?

Good hunting. El Bee

[ November 26, 2025, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 26, 2025, 04:51 PM:

Well back in the day i was old enough to carry a gun and serve like many others but if not 19 or 18 no beer. Stay on base you get served at bar but off base you screwed till old enough.

Well I went back to finalize all paperwork in triplicate the way it seemed, got fingerprinted and mug shot taken and now just waiting.
Got email from ATF and they say they will start to view my documents.

I was walking around store looking at things and then this dam gun jumped out and hit me. LOL
Rem. 600 chambered in 222 for a little over 800.00 all factory yet. I started getting chills and body started to shake as well, got weak in the knees even. I had a hell of a time walking away from that deal. I told myself if its still there when i come back to pick up suppressor I'm going to buy it.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 26, 2025, 05:39 PM:

I’ve got that exact rifle with a 18” barrel. Nice rifle indeed….

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 26, 2025, 05:53 PM:

Damn, Tim. You should have jumped on it! Model 600 and 660 are very nice little rifles and they are under appreciated. It won’t be there when you go back!

I bought a M660 new, in 6mmRem. It was stolen New Year’s Eve 1975. So I came across a M600 and bought it. It’s a nice little gun and every male in my family wants it when I pass away. It is such a versatile and handy little gun. I can make day stands on coyotes and I can hunt mule deer in the mountains. Of course, that vent rib is a non starter, but easy to fix. Whoever priced a used M600 for $800 understood its value.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on November 26, 2025, 06:19 PM:

Yeah those older rifles are real beauties for sure. I have three I won’t part with. A Model 600 .222 Remington with a 18 inch barrel no vent rib. A Model 660 6mm Remington with a 22” barrel no vent rib either. And a Remington Model 722 .244 Remington with a 26” barrel. All in mint condition.

Good Hunting Chad

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on November 26, 2025, 07:26 PM:

Yeah, maybe so it be gone by then. I like to think on it for a spell. The price was 899.00. could buy another suppressor. LOL

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 01, 2025, 10:11 AM:

Oh I see now what's the application for suppressors for shot guns. Few companies make these assault type shotguns kind of like a AR but in 12 Ga. and then fit a suppressor on them.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 02, 2025, 08:31 AM:

Oh my Christmas has come early.
Got email and my stamp is approved, Scheels called as well to verify. It took 4 days!
My gun smith called as well and I'm dropping off my AR to get that new barrel installed. Two different towns to drive to so i'll make a round robin drive and get it all done today.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 02, 2025, 09:38 AM:

Suppressors for shotguns [Confused]

I dunno .......If I had an AR style 12 ga. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be for hunting Quail & Timberdoodle while wearing Tweeds, but more for home defense. In that case, I wouldn't want suppressed. Would rather it roar like the Devil stubbing his toe and shooting about 3 foot of flame out the barrel. Shock & awe and all of that. [Eek!]

Maybe for a tricked out slug gun for deer ????

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 02, 2025, 05:23 PM:

I wonder why not long ago, it used to take more than a year for approval of the application to buy a suppressor. Now, our boy gets it approved in a day and a half? I think it was just fucking with the troops. I watched a You Tube video just a couple days ago about approving concealed weapon permits, by county, in California. Some took weeks and some took months, depending on the politics, you know Democrat, or anti gun jurisdictions. Said in Hawaii, you were looking at years and don’t be surprised if they lose the application somewhere along the way-sorry! Guess you will have to reapply?

I did hear that some counties will approve the application, but the charge is close to a thousand dollars. And you had better not have so much as a parking ticket going back years.

I heard that even in the counties where it’s possible, it still takes 6 months. Now compare Orange County to Po Dunk Minnesota where our buddy gets a suppressor approved in a day or so and gets multiple notifications.

IDK?
Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 02, 2025, 05:59 PM:

Leonard it took my nephew 3 weeks roughly to get his stamp. I then applied for mine few days later. I had to go online with ATF and give them my E-mail addy and then go to gun store and give them the ATF info then filled out forms on lap-top in triplicate basically. On ATF site they said they was coming out with new update to speed things up which was on the 27th and i received my stamp on the 2 of Dec., roughly 4 days. Does my driving record or military record have any say on it I don't know. Maybe got it sooner cause i'm not a member of P.M. for that matter. ATF is federal not county or state as far as I know. As far as state it just has to be legal to use one here. And i think back in the day a Mn. Res. could have one but had to go out of state to use it like S.D. for my application. At that time, they could be used at a gun range just not out hunting.
I put mine on my 204 and fired two shots from the truck, it wasn't bad but keep in mind it will echo back into truck and make it louder that it is.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 02, 2025, 06:05 PM:

If I may add the workload has to be considered as well. Jan. first you no longer have to pay the tax stamp but still need to go through all the app.s so after the 1st. it may get a little crowded and longer waiting time.

Leonard you were right about the rem. 600, it gone but I think they wanted too much for it anyway as 850.00 is for 80% condition and this rifle was not at 80%..
I did pick up a RCBS charge master though. [Big Grin]

[ December 02, 2025, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 02, 2025, 06:28 PM:

Also, you would think a permit would be long term? Nah, renewed and through the bullshit every couple years. Easy to get discouraged and say fuck it, I don’t need it that bad. Which is the purpose!

Good hunting.
El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 02, 2025, 06:55 PM:

Tax stamp is for as how long you own it, one time deal.
Conceal to carry is short term, like five years here then renew. The reason I got a conceal to carry permit is not for shooting a bad guys. I got one so I can carry my ruger in the truck when i run dogs and don't have to reload it every time I get out of the truck to dispatch a coyote. It sucks trying to reload CB caps into a revolver when its cold out.

[ December 02, 2025, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 04, 2025, 03:47 PM:

Ok i got question for you Can guys. First shot from suppressed gun, what do you hear? How about second shot?

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 04, 2025, 06:15 PM:

I guess I don’t understand the question. What do you mean what do you hear? Should be just a pop from the shot and shouldn’t change from shot to shot.

[ December 04, 2025, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on December 04, 2025, 06:20 PM:

Your first round will be slightly louder than the second. It is referred to as first round pop. From what I understand, there is oxygen in the can before the first shot which is ignited by the hot gasses coming out the muzzle which causes a separate explosion. There is no oxygen after the first shot because it has been replaced with the gasses from the powder. Some cans seem to do better than others in this regard.

Also, Tim, you have a flow thru can which means some of the gasses that would normally be trapped are allowed out the end of the can instead of coming back into your face thru the ejection port. Most of these types of cans are a little louder because of that. Just a trade-off for you ar guys.
Side note....I've already heard one click this year. LOL

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 04, 2025, 06:28 PM:

Hell you learn something new everyday. Lol I’ve been shooting my can for 7 years and didn’t know that.

[ December 04, 2025, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 04, 2025, 08:23 PM:

Ok Randy thanks. Thought i had a faulty can. LOL
I notice the crack is not there but still get a bang i guess you could call it. Not sure how loud but i'd swear it sounds like my 17 rem. minus sharp crack. Friend also told me the can will seem louder for the man behind trigger but for other guys sitting farther away just a poof is what they hear.

I also read something about having a wet can, to make it quieter, not sure what's involved with that.

It will be used mostly on a bolt gun but Nephew said I should go with flow through since I also have a AR., just covering all the bases. Thanks.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 05, 2025, 03:01 PM:

Maybe I'm getting to annal here, but I wonder if powder burn rate could reduce some of the popping sound. I think i read at one time the slower the powder and long enough barrel to burn it all the louder the bang.
H-380 would be an example if you ever used it or 760.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 05, 2025, 03:28 PM:

I can relate my single experience with a suppressor. I’ve mentioned it before, but for whatever it’s worth, I will explain.

I was at our club. It’s behind a locked gate, members have the code and you can access it any time, even in the middle of the night.

As a side mention, late one afternoon, after the staff had left, I was still there doing some load work up. It got dark and a little spooky, it’s mountain and lots of trees, but anyway, I packed up and left, opened the gate and locked it behind me and got all the way back to the freeway when I remembered that I didn’t pull my target! So, I turned around and went back maybe 3-4 miles and back through the canyon to our deeded property, in the middle of the San Gabriel National Forest.

As I pulled up to the 100 yard benches, I think there are about 40 or so, covered. I looked out where I had to go across the bridge to get my target and there were about 3 guys out there with flashlights. They were picking up random brass. I found out later that it’s not approved, the brass belongs to the club. Anyway, we didn’t interact at all and I got my target and left.

So, this was another occasion. I was alone, middle of the day. Nowadays, we have paid staff so you won’t be alone until the sorta clock out and lock up the place. They usually make sure that you are a member and know the code, otherwise you are gonna be there all night until they open up in the morning.

So, I’m alone, minding my own business when this Asian fella pulls in. WE said Hi and he asked me if I had a spare ear plug, which I gave him. At that point he explainedd his purpose which was that he had 5 full auto M4’s that he was about to delive to one of the local police departments. But first he had to test fire them with suppressors. He tested a couple, and asked me if I would care to try one and I said OK, although, I have almost zero interest in those things….a waste of ammo, for one thing, and I’m more into precision and accuracy.

Anyway, I fired a magazine, full auto, and I was still lukewarm about the whole situation but watched as he finished testing the rest of them for function, just to say he did it, and they worked fine. I never thought to ask him which agency was getting them, but I did silently question what the fuck our local PD’s needed with suppressed full auto assault rifles? Turns out that it’s a bit of a little secret, for use of the SWAT squads.

Now, back to my impression. I’m wearing foam ear plugs and the sound still seemed like I was firing a rifle. I didn’t feel like I had to strain to hear the report, it still sounded like a gunshot. Not exactly like a 300 Weatherby and not like a rimfire, but somewhere in the vast middle. Never did I think; “Wow, that’s really quiet!” I didn’t think much at all, but upon reflection, I can’t say that this was a marked level of suppression that caused me to think, yeah, these things work as advertised!

That’s all I got, from the only time I ever fired one of those gadgets. I thought, from being behind one, it sure as hell wasn’t like the movies. Maybe, to grasp at some form of reference, it was like the difference between a 30’06 and a 223? All dependent on how far away, and short barrel vs 26” big game hunting rifle. I did not think; Hey this is something I’ve been missing out on, I can’t wait to get one of my own.

So, there you go, reminding everybody that my hearing is very poor, to begin with. If I don’t ask you to repeat yourself in a 2 minute conversation, you are fortunate. lol

Good hunting. El Bee

[ December 05, 2025, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 07, 2025, 04:02 PM:

I put day scope on AR and tested varus ammo today.

AR has a 1-7 twist and liked the 60 grain bullets the best, 75 gr. took close second, barrel hates anything heavier. Shooting AR brought back old memories from back in the day, you can't man handle one like you would a Bolt action, need to have a lighter hold and your groups will shrink.
The Suppressor worked ok and not as loud as with out so good to go there. Did some reading on it and it also works well with full auto [Eek!]

where do i find one of those. LOL
Took my ackley along and checked the thermal after it sat all year. still on zero and that ackley is a beast. I'll get some threads on it soon and tame that roar down a notch.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 08, 2025, 09:42 AM:

I just don’t know? Having fired guns my entire life, the report is part of the situation. It’s a by product, if you sorta enjoy firearms, it’s part of the event, it makes noise. When you take a shower, you get wet.

Look, I’m just talking, my Amigos. But, I had a snarky thought. A bunch of girls at the range are going to cover their ears and go:

“EEWE, that’s SOOOOOO LOUD! Can’t they make it work without hurting my ears! I don’t like it! Let’s get out of here!”

I’m not calling esteemed members of the Peanut Gallery, Pussy’s. Of course not. Just joking around, folks.

It’s like my virginity, I lost it so long ago, like my hearing, that It doesn’t bother me.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 08, 2025, 10:19 AM:

I don't know maybe its the bigger cartridges going bang that bothered me and why I stuck with 17 cal. centerfires most of the time. Less bang and found I do shoot them much better than say a 243 win. I love shooting my 221 f.b. but I feel it's not enough gun for coyotes, so it gets neglected. Waiting on a quick tach for my 22-250 Bergara and will see how that plays out when i get suppressor mounted on that.
Another cool factor about 17 center fires and 221 f.b. is you can see your hits vrs. the bigger guns..

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 08, 2025, 01:30 PM:

It’s been the same tired argument on Varmint hunting boards for 30 fucking years. Is a 223 enough gun for coyotes?

I think, after you have shot a few, got a little “time in grade” you start to think in two directions. First, you worry about blown up hides and then you start to see runners and consider the solution. The solution is that a 243 is a perfect cartridge for making sure a coyote dies on the spot. The guys that decide on a 22-250 never complain so if you want a dead coyote, it’s some version of Use More Gun!

I’m not saying that a well disciplined hunter can’t succeeed with a 17, but for a lot of guys, more gun is a logical solution.

We are never going to spell it out for everybody, but smart hunters know what’s needed. I’m thinking of Victor. He has his reasons. But, for a guy that doesn’t put up fur, it’s a tiny bit non conformist.

As I have said before, and I have attended many hunt contests. You never see 17’s at these hunts because they just want a dead coyote. Anyway, we are never going to get everybody to agree, on an issue pretty basic. It will continue!

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: In fact, this guy Tim Suttles of Buffalo Bore likes a 25’06 on coyotes. ME TOO!

[ December 08, 2025, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 08, 2025, 03:51 PM:

What fun would it be if we all agreed ??? [Confused]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 08, 2025, 04:01 PM:

Dead is dead why kill them any deader?

223 on coyotes, nope I been there seen it and done it and got rid of it. A 17 rem. or Predator are not the same animal.
I have a 22-250 since I first started going after fur, rem. 788, has new barrel but I still have it. Had ackley for some time as well. always grab a 17 center fire. As for runners I've had more with the 22-250 than with 17 center fire, I just don't see much if any runners and can count on one hand those I lost, mostly due to trying out a 25 gr. V-max bullet. Learned my lesson and stuck with 25 gr or 30 gr gr. H.P.s. No magic, its just little bullets moves faster and hits harder.
I've seen coyotes out in open fields shot with most everything you can think of and a coyote shot in ass is going to run or hobble off.
At one of the AZ. camp outs there was two coyotes in the dead pile shot by 17 cal., most of them all bloodied up cept the two shot with 17 cal. [Big Grin]

you are so right Koko..........

I have not got around to trying my 17 cal. at night but if I do and it performs at night like it does on daytime coyotes the ackley will be staying at home.

[ December 08, 2025, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 09, 2025, 12:12 PM:

TA. Let me speculate a minute. The reason why people, by far prefer a hot .224 or a 6mm is because they do the job. You can swear up and down that the 17’s are more deadly, if you like, but it’s like claiming black is beautiful. Folks will nod their heads, to be polite and politically correct, but we all know it’s some kind of reverse logic. “More runners from a 22-250” ? I don’t know? Center punch a coyote and very few run away. Regardless…..of caliber. I mean, don’t get crazy with a rimfire to call me a liar, but the laws of nature must be obeyed, more or less.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 09, 2025, 08:53 PM:

you said yourself not always going to get that perfect shot, I agree.
You forget I've seen it all as far as coyotes being shot with most calibers there are, not always perfect hits. alot of guys choose a rifle cartridge cause someone else uses one and perhaps he kills a few coyotes so then you got the me-too guys that follow suite. I'm not a follower and think for myself. I built the 17 Pred. and took the long walk and have never looked back and no regrets and why I still have the rifle. If it didn't work I would of had some other type of barrel installed and chambered for something else.
My search ended years ago for perfect coyote and red fox rifles. 17 re., 17 Pred. and 22-250 ackly.
Maybe at night shooting from back of the truck a guy would need a 243, thing is I don't hunt that way so less works just as good.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 09, 2025, 09:04 PM:

Now with this suppressor deal I'm still sitting on the fence. Yes, it is a little nicer when shooting larger calibers like 22-250 and makes noise manageable. But on most of my stands its just one or two shots if I have multiples, no big deal. soon as weather straightens out I do little hunting with it and see what I think then..

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 10, 2025, 09:13 AM:

I admit, I do not know what the fuck is a 17 Predator? Everybody has an idea, neck down this or that, blow it out and invent a new cartridge. It’s been a while, I don’t remember if we used a Javalina or a MK4, but the performance is about the same, we already have more than enough of the various 17’s to do the job and the rest is just confusing.

For a man that puts up fur and the less sewing, the better. I understand that. And, like with assholes, everybody has an opinion. Someone on here, at one time even tried a 19 caliber, just for the hell of it.

I have had, one time or another, two 25’06Ackleys, and a 25’06Remington. They make very nice long range truck guns and at night, I’ve always limited myself to around 400 yards. It’s due to time and percentages. You don’t want to be wandering around for an hour with a flashlight looking for an animal that you have not marked very well. If I can’t relate him to a landmark of some sort, I wait until I can get him closer, like on a cat, you can’t hardly chase them away. But you might coax them in a bit closer?

So, I mostly depend on a 22-250Ackley. If there is a perfect coyote caliber, that would be it! In the meantime, for those that do not have the time, any 6mmRem or 243W will do the job very nicely. For the longest time, I could debate the merits of the 6mm over the 243 endlessly. But at this point, because I won a Ruger 243, I use it. I also have a 243Ackley which has not been used very much at all, but it sure as hell has potential.

What I do not have is a 17. I’d like to say that I do not have a 223, but I do own a AR and it is a standard 5.56. I also have a 223Ackley Improved. I used it for an entire season and part of another until I lost a cripple for no reason whatsoever. Randy was there and saw it. It was a little embarrassing, and I haven’t used it since. But, it’s a damned nice little rifle, nonetheless.

I don’t buy and sell a lot of guns. I buy once in a while, I seldom sell, but I have regretted selling more often than not. I like to invest my time and ring it out to its highest potential. I’m disappointed if I can’t put 5 shots under an inch. And then, are you wasting barrel life searching for a load or bullet that can get under a half inch?

At some point, you have too many guns to really keep track of and I hate that! I do not need another rifle. I do not need another hand gun. Selling guns in California is a pain in the ass. Unless you have a network of friends. And that makes me think. I have a 220Swift Ruger. For me, there is a little bit of magic in the name. I think. a 22-250Ackley Improved is a superior cartridge over the 220Swift. But, it doesn’t have the cashet. Some are just more exciting than others.

How can anybody love a 308W? Where’s the magic? Like a 22Hornet, for instance. I suppose it’s different for everybody. A 300WM? Just about any “300” will get the juices flowing. 7mm does not motivate like 6mm does, at least for me. 270 does! 284 does not. This is all personal preference, but like Blondes and Brunettes, I much prefer the Brunette; always have!

Sorry to ramble!
Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 10, 2025, 11:43 AM:

Could it be ......????
That a person develops confidence in a certain caliber / cartridge / rifle that he thinks has cachet or panache, deserved or not, and confidence, like Mojo, even though it can't be measured or weighed but is real.

[Cool]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 10, 2025, 12:16 PM:

you crack me up Koko.

quote:
I don’t buy and sell a lot of guns. I buy once in a while, I seldom sell, but I have regretted selling more often than not. I like to invest my time and ring it out to its highest potential. I’m disappointed if I can’t put 5 shots under an inch. And then, are you wasting barrel life searching for a load or bullet that can get under a half inch?

I guess i Got pretty lucky when it comes to half inch groups, I matched a bullet i liked to certain powder and primer and poof there it was nice 1/2 inch shooter. I think I own more 1/2" shooters than 1" shooters and anything outside of 1" is gone or gets a new barrel.

243 Ackley? I got a chance years back to do the load work up on one for a friend. The barrel was installed on a Sako action with varmint dia. barrel. 100 yards you could dam near shoot hole for hole. For game under 400 yards, I never liked the caliber, but you start stretching it out past that then it really shinned. I seen my friend make kills out to 800 yards on running coyotes, that rifle was a monster. Just too much gun for avr. shooting distances or calling stands so no interest in getting one. Also I don't hunt big game so another reason not to own a big bore.

The 17 Pred. was invented by DAA buddy by necking down and blowing out shoulder on a 223 case. I went step farther and use 204 brass which gives me a little longer neck. A rifle with less recoil will make you a better shooter and thus see your hits as well, I like that. When I shoot a 17 cal. i'm concentrating on just two things, crosshair and trigger pull and not have to worry about rifle or scope coming back at my face.

[ December 10, 2025, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 10, 2025, 01:42 PM:

If I may add, when using 17 Pred. I'm taking chest or body shots at or just behind the shoulder, very few if any head shots.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 10, 2025, 01:44 PM:

Tim, I think that’s what I was talking about. The changing dimensions shoulder neck body length, etc. etc. Maybe there should be some standardization, and limits on homebrewed cartridge case design. BFD, you got a longer neck! That’s what ctitics of the 300Winchester Magnum have always bitched about. BooHoo, the neck is too short! And, in that one cartridge, they can’t point to a single fact, the exact consequences of a short neck. Nitpickers.

Yeah, I like tinkering as much as the next person, but it’s usually a lack of something that necessitates a solution. If it wasn’t for fire forming, these seat of the pants designs would never happen.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 10, 2025, 02:14 PM:

shoulder angle, length of neck and right powder burn rate will help reduce throat wear. A longer neck will also help keep bullet going in right direction till it meets the lands. Powder needs to be burned inside the cartridge not down the barrel if you want to reduce throat wear and get full potential from your loading. you may gain in accuracy as well without having to seat bullet into the lands to start with. more neck with right amount of tension also helps in accuracy. reloading 101

Also to give you better idea look at and use the different tips you get for a torch, wide tip puts flame all over to heat larger area, smaller tip to heat small area with intense heat like for soldering. Your shoulder angle helps give you control of where you want the flame roughly to go, and longer neck gives you little extra burn room so less will be burning up the throat.
Look at how a wood stove and chimney are set up, steel pipe to take the heat then on into a cement and brick chimney.

[ December 10, 2025, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 10, 2025, 10:39 PM:

Goddamned, Tim! Did you just fall out of a coconut tree! You are talking like you know a lot and I do not! I’ve been precision hand loading for over 55 years, thus far. You can’t tell me anything I don’t already know, you….dunderhead! Have some respect!

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 11, 2025, 12:57 PM:

you know I don't have any coconut tree's here Leonard and stop cussing, that gets me excited. Besides I'm just rambling...

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 12, 2025, 11:41 AM:

I was under the impression that you had served some time in the UA Army, Tim? The Army forever changes your vocabulary. So quit faking offense because of colorful language. This is not a church social, it’s adult conversation. You can be mindful of your own speech but you are wasting your time attempting to police other members, especially the guy that pays the bills here. But, I’m sure you didn’t mean it the way it sounded. Be nice.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 12, 2025, 12:16 PM:

My father was Army, 101st airborne screaming eagle.
I didn't believe in jumping out of a perfectly good plane, so I was in Airforce, security specialist. [Wink]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 12, 2025, 12:50 PM:

WHAT?

The Airforce? We used to call them bus drivers, because to their blue/gray uniforms. They don’t even dress like a military outfit. Very casual everyday work uniforms, I’m not sure if they salute or know how to march? It’s all very casual.

Sorry Tim, I thought you were in the military. My mistake.

PS My father was in the US Army Air Corps, before they invented the Airforce as a separate branch. And, inspite of all that, the Army has a lot more pilots.

U.S. military has around 37,000 pilots across its branches, with the Army having the most (approx. 14,000), followed by the Air Force (approx. 13,000), Navy (around 6,500-7,000), and Marines (around 3,500), though exact numbers fluctuate due to shortages, training cycles, and reserve/guard components. The Army focuses heavily on helicopter pilots, while the Air Force and Navy utilize a mix of fighter, bomber, transport, and special ops aviators

Good hunting. El Bee

[ December 12, 2025, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 12, 2025, 03:55 PM:

Airforce has all nuclear missiles except for a few they let the Navy play with, and they don't need a pilot, just someone sitting by to push a button.
Yeah those blue suites were something, I only wore mine like five times the whole time i was in service. Did you happen to notice the different hats some of them wear??? or the crest some of them had on it???

[ December 12, 2025, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 13, 2025, 09:47 AM:

They look more like Pinkerton’s or the Post Office uniform rather than an actual military uniform. And their Basic Training is in Volleyball and movies, for sure no firearms allowed. It’s the way to go; for Nerds.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 13, 2025, 12:21 PM:

LOL. I never played volleyball when in service.

You know the airforce has one of the best burn centers in the world?
At time weapons we carried were 38 spec.,9mm, ar-15, M-203, M-60 and the 50 cal. grenade's, claymores.
When I was in Texas at camp Bullis some of the Marines and troops from Germany came and trained with us. We had to teach them how to protect a airbase and also recover one if lost to the enemy or take a airbase from enemy. At time we also had air Marshall training. We also taught search and clear tactic's. Later on, while still in service I also trained with the Canadian army. Not everyone road around in a blue bus, we had APC or Ford Bronco's to get around in. and if need arise get a ride in a Huey. The Airforce is also top training center training dogs and many of the dogs went to Law enforcement in civilian world. I've seen and also guarded and protected most of the planes you read about and touched a few as well as a Nuclear missile sitting in a silo. Cold steel just sitting there waiting to blow away a little part of the world. LOL

P.S. You know of or remember Gorden Call? (Tax dodger that killed U.S. Marshals)

[ December 13, 2025, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 15, 2025, 12:52 PM:

No, but the name rings a bell? Did he change his name to Jessica?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 15, 2025, 01:10 PM:

Mayhap you're thinking of Gordon Kahl ?????
Surprised that the Hollywood Left hasn't made a movie on that one.
Government bad.
I.R.S. bad.
Military bad.
Guns bad.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 15, 2025, 03:48 PM:

yeah koko that's the guy, N.D. where i was stationed at time and was out field when it happen. we helped with the search but didn't find him, but we did help locate his son who was in on it as well. Years later i drove semi up to N.D to pick up load of wheat seed from a farm and the farmer happen to be the son's wife. Nice lady and she told me her husband had like 5 more years to go and then he be out.
I also worked a little with one of the Marshalls that was killed as he would run escort with us when we moved a war-head back to base. Other than a bomber burning up at the base that was my excitement while i was stationed up there.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 16, 2025, 08:37 AM:

Then I guess I need to Google the name because nothing thus far mentioned rings a bell?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 16, 2025, 09:35 AM:

So I did. What a clusterfuck!

Seems like the perp had issues of some validity and the law enforcement were relentless. But pouring fuel down a chimney and firing a couple thousand rounds into an empty house but killing somebody’s dog? It sounds like Bonnie and Clyde license to kill events. There was a Nevada shootout with game wardens that was a kinda similar deal. There is a lot of stupidity involving guns, no denying that.

So what? Is this Gordon fella some kind of internet hero or what?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 16, 2025, 06:23 PM:

maybe a hero to some, like others that don't believe in paying taxes. Yeah a house got shot up, but the guy had it coming. He gunned down two U.S. Marshalls in cold blood.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 16, 2025, 10:02 PM:

Leonard,
I think you are talking about Claude Dallas.Happened back in January of 1981.I have a couple books on him and the whole deal. Pretty interesting how it all went down, and it makes it even more so considering we hunt a lot of the country it happened in.

Good Hunting Chad

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 17, 2025, 08:47 AM:

That’s right, Chad. I know all that area, Jackpot, Chimmeny, Black Rock Desert where they caught him. Dallas even contacted me once, wanted contact information for another member. I wrote and asked if he wanted to hear from him and he said OK and so I did. Never heard anything more, but thought it was interesting that he was at least aware of this board. You know, murder is a particularly foul deed, but maybe there is a side to his story?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit:
PS I had no idea there were books?
Also, I have had kind of a hard on for Fish and Game cops for a very long time. they always seem to have a disagreeable attitude.

[ December 17, 2025, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 17, 2025, 10:28 AM:

Yes I definitely have issues with fish and game officers too. Most seem heavy handed.

Yes I think you can still find the books if you look online. The names are, 1)Give a Boy a Gun by Jack Olsen. 2)Outlaw by Jeff Long
They give both sides of the story pretty accurately both are good reads.
They talk about Sand pass road,Paradise Hills,Paradise Valley near Winnemucca, Bull Run in the Owyhee near the Nevada Idaho border, and like you mentioned Chimney Reservoir.

I’ve heard after he got out of prison he was living in Grouse Creek Utah, but I don’t know that for sure.

Good Hunting Chad

[ December 17, 2025, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 17, 2025, 10:56 AM:

Run into wardens all the time, most of them here are ok. Just answer their questions and be honest and check your attitude as well, they just trying to do their job.
I got pulled over by two of them on lake this summer, they did lic. check and noted I didn't have a cushion that floated. Said i have on in truck but forgot to put it in boat. I also told them i'm only one in the boat so who am i going to toss it too. got a chuckle out of them and got just a verbal warning. you buy a lic. you get a reg. book with it and its up to you to read up on the reg.s and their job is to enforce them. if something is missing from reg. or you don't understand something you just call their hotline and they answer all kinds of questions free of charge.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 17, 2025, 10:59 AM:

I checked eBay.
Several copies of 'Give A Boy A Gun' by Jack Olsen. $10 to $30 condition etc.
Nothing currently for 'Outlaw' by Jeff Long.

I've pissed on bushes in some of those places, myself. Good times but colder than Hilleary's Heart in the winter.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 17, 2025, 11:10 AM:

Tim;
I agree and what you wrote is mostly true. However, when you buy a license, you get a 'Summery' of the Regs. Kind of the Cliff Notes version.
I had an incident with a warden up in Wash. and went to the Olympia headquarters in person to speak to a Supervisor. Long story less long, I was told "Well, that's not in the Regs but you can be cited for it."
I never hunted in that state again.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 17, 2025, 12:21 PM:

I've pissed on bushes in some of those places, myself. Good times but colder than Hilleary's Heart in the winter.

Koko,
Ain’t that the freakin truth!!!!!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 17, 2025, 01:11 PM:

Yeah, Paradise Valley is a nice little community. Ever been up, I think it’s called Bishop Canyon? They have access pretty well camouflaged and it’s uphill all the way.

There’s a sod roofed stable next to a hot springs up near Denio. And I mean boiling hot! Funny thing is, I never see anybody in Northern Nevada. It’s a damned shame they have that Burning Man thing up on the Black Rock! I used to hunt Seven Troughs all the time, Rosebud Canyon, lots of out of the way spots. Limerick Canyon, not so very out of the way, but is a very reliable spot for lions. (at least tracks, which is worth the drive all by itself) I’m sure that I’ve seen more lions in Nevada than anywhere, and I’ve been around. Well, “used to” anyway; just not lately.

Nevada is a very comfortable place to be, to hang out! Where a shot is fired….and nobody hears it!

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 17, 2025, 01:24 PM:

Yes Northern Nevada is one of those places I could just get lost in. So many cool places to explore and hunt.Its truly amazing. I was up in near Denio this past fall in fact.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 17, 2025, 03:22 PM:

Well its been about a week since Lakota have started their ride for Mankato, Mn. 330 mile journey by horse-back. There was a couple of nice days but mostly cold as hell and windy. I think they plan to arrive Mankato on 25 or 26th of this month. It looks like more members have been added to the ride. gonna check em out when they go by my place in 5 days.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 17, 2025, 03:59 PM:

Are you sure this isn’t just a publicity stunt, Tim? The native American sob story, no respect, etc. They have an excellent PR staff to let everybody know what they want us to know.

Yes, I heard about Wounded Knee and the victory at Little Big Horn. What else? What’s in Mankato? I have a few relatives there that wouldn’t know me at this point.Check the phone book to see if there are any Stitt’s in town, or Steiniger?

Good hunting. El Bee

This is kinda funny. At one time, I thought I know every Bosinski, now or ever. Did a cursory check and found out that there are more than 50 Bosinski’s just in New Jersey. I quit searching, it’s not such a rare name as I thought? The Internet is so informative, right?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 17, 2025, 07:45 PM:

they been making this ride in memory of their relatives that was hung in Mankato years ago. One of America's biggest embarrassments. I never knew about it till last year when I watched them ride by the farm heading for Mankato. Then I asked around and then did a google on it, yeah its real and not something just anyone can do. When i seen them the horses was going at a fast trot with sub. temp.s and just think they do this all day. Tough horses and tough men. I thought you was into Indian history? You have so much to learn grass-hopper. [Wink]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 17, 2025, 10:20 PM:

I was doing some reading on newer suppressors and like most know if you go up in cartridge size you also go with bigger/longer suppressor. Then you got some guys stating they don't get much recoil reduced. But now with some of newer suppressors that use a quick release muzzle break you will see/feel a reduction in recoil due to the muzzle break being used in the system.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 18, 2025, 07:52 AM:

Tim, I recall very clearly, driving through St. cloud, where my mother was born, one summer. I saw a sign right on the hiway stating that in this place, forget the year, 39? Sante Sioux were hanged. Did something else happen in Mankato. We have a Mankato here in the Central Valley of California,

I believe it was all about that prophet that claimed if they danced well enough, the white man would be defeated and everything would be hunky dory. Anyway, the ones that were hanged were guilty of hacking a fair number of white citizens.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: but I looked it up and apparently I am wrong? That never happened before? (just kidding)

I think St. cloud might have been involved in the trials? I certainly remember Fort Snelling, and we had a park called Sibley Field close to my house. I didn’t know, at the time that he was a general.

Apparently, there were a number of tribes that originated in Minnesota, and later associated with the Great Plains. The Souix definitely came from The Land of Sky Blue Waters-Minnesota. Our history lesson of the day.

[ December 18, 2025, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 18, 2025, 01:00 PM:

I would have to look it up but yeah we had quite a few different tribes. Reservations scattered throughout the state and Dakotas as well.

Have one reservation the white man really fucked up on, up by red lake. Some of the best walleye fishing in the state and one of the tribes owns most of the lake. LOL

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 19, 2025, 09:29 AM:

When I was about 10, we stopped at an Indian camp beside Lake Milac. I had a photo taken beside a tall teenage Indian girl. Wow, was she dark! But, good looking, actually. Wearing a dress. We bought a souvenir birchbark canoe, I had it for years. Never fished that lake, or Leech Lake. Remember seeing the Paul Bunyan statue, where was that? Birmidji, maybe? Minnesota might have 10,000 lakes but they probably have 20,000 swamps? Great place to catch snakes! They have a lot of leeches that will attach as soon as you start wadding. Disgusting critters, but good bait. Down Memory Lane.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 19, 2025, 02:02 PM:

Leonard she is still there, little white dove is her name, they gave her a new coat of paint few years ago.
Paul Bunyan and babe have been moved; I don't remember where to. I think we now have more than 10,000 lakes with few being man made. We have a manmade lake close to where I live, the company I work for built it. Yeah, we got few sloughs all part of the echo system, they provide homes for all kinds of critters and help clean the water.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 21, 2025, 11:07 PM:

Well, here it is just few days before Christmas and what snow we had melted but good news is very little wind and temp at 34, perfect for night calling.
I got all dressed up nice and warm and loaded two guns plus gear into the truck and went out made 3 stands.
I saw plenty of coyotes, but they have not adjusted since deer and pheasant season just got over or bird still going on but fewer hunters.
Last season was a hay day as I got out before deer opener, was some good calling. Then there few weeks of lull (deer season pressure) with some of them that been moved around they not bedding up or hunting much where they normally do.
Tonight told same story with many way out in middle of bigger sections and not much for cover, they hold up there for another week or so then should get back to normal. They can still be called but I'm too old for those long walks through chisel plowed fields. In mean time I'll just find areas that had less pressure then game on. I was in a hurry so I didn't get batt. charged up for the WT. and really wish I had it along as the L.D. just don't cut it with spooked coyotes from deer season, it just don't..........
Was going to make another stand but hey it started to rain, how about that. wish they would fix this dam global warming.
In mean time waiting on set of reloading dies for Valkrie and some bullets, some 60 gr. I want to try in the ackley and some 62 gr. ELD's also. If they don't work, then I plan to use them in Valkrie.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2025, 12:07 PM:

I’ve always used the best, most accurate and expensive bullets money can buy, and “waste” them on varmints and non game. Some people might be inclined to use blems and low quality components on such low valued prey, but I put way over the top effort to create the best ammunition money can buy.

This attention to detail gives me a sense of confidence. I know that when I pull the trigger, that bullet is going where I aimed and it’s a fait accompli, I don’t waste and every shot scores a success. Knowing I did everything with great care, my results are expected.

I know it sounds smug, but I seldom miss a shot on game, or in this case, a non game, but I treat the taking a shot at a coyote as every bit as important as shooting a deer. I have a lot of respect for coyotes, they ain’t varmits /sic. at least in my mind. especially wounding one. I take it personal, a clean kill is important. They get no respect from the public at large, but not me. They are interesting animals, and survivors. They are a challenge, every one is a trophy. that’s my attitude.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 22, 2025, 01:27 PM:

A wise man once sayth something to the effect of; "Confidence begets Mojo, and Mojo is real".

[Big Grin]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 23, 2025, 09:40 AM:

I still have shopping to do. Yet, here I am. I will get it together soon. It’s overcast, the kind of morning I dislike. Well, can’t have everything. Never had everything, like ko ko. At least he still has a wife and I don’t. I miss her every day. She had a big, World Class smile for everybody. The good die young. Interestingly, she made the remark a number of times that she didn’t want to grow old, and she didn’t.
We had an elderly couple that lived next door, Peggy and Dud. Nanc made the remark and Peggy said; well, you will change your mind. So far as I know, she never did. Peggy and Dud were either coming or going from City of Hope, in Duarte, when Dud had a heart attack, swerved into oncoming traffic and they both died in the crash. Maybe younger, and fit people might have survived, but that Ford Sedan was totaled. My son was about a year and a half and enjoyed getting cookies from Peggy. Her family gave us that cookie jar, which we had for a few years until (guess who) broke it. They both lived on social security and Dud played the horses, pretending, listened to the results from Hollywood park or Santa Anita every day. Such little joy, but they were as happy as anyone I have ever seen before or since. Really nice, fine people. Tragic ending.

Down Memory Lane
with El Bee
Good hunting

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 23, 2025, 12:56 PM:

Miss mine everyday as well but hey that's life.

I been working with the 20x47 Lapua and getting some loads worked up to test for group then try it out on coyotes again. I'll see how it goes and perhaps send it along with my ackley to get end of barrel threaded.
Dies and bullets showed up for the 224 Valkrie so getting a load for that worked up as well. 60 gr. bullets shot well so thats what i bought was box of 60 and a box of 62 ELD's.
My Bergara is already threaded so I'll use that and Valkrie till I get my ackley back.

Nephew went out last night and had five on stand at once to deal with and I hunted alone last night saw 3 but they still hanging way back in big sections. Tonight supposed to be nice so I'll try go back out again.
I asked the Nephew what sounds he been using and he pretty much said he sticking to coyote vocals, his coyote at moment not showing much interest in prey sounds and he said he was also trying the caller at lower volume (L-D) and not seeing an improvement there. I told him leave it cranked up or down just one click.
I had one coming in slow last night on a string and also tried less volume with that one, but it would come more if I had it turned up so now, I'm done with that volume up or down crap and just stick to full volume.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 23, 2025, 04:18 PM:

Yeah, I’m with you on that. I don’t mess with volume. Unless something comes up, there are situations that dictate toning down the volume. I will say this, however. High volume and distortion seldom bother coyotes the way the perfectionists think it does. I go back to the Tape Deck days, worn out 8 track tapes on endless repeat and the sound quality could be described as awful, but eager coyotes seldom noticed. I think “studio quality” is a bit overrated. Yeah, it’s always nice to have, but the sound category is a little more important than the excellence of the technical equipment. If not that would question the whole hand call segment/ devotees. Just my opinion, for what it’s worth.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 23, 2025, 06:18 PM:

Well ........ To each their own; ya got to go with what works for you in the area that you hunt, and what you hunt with.
In my case, underestimating a coyote's hearing is a mistake. If they're hanging up at 100 yards (chip shot for you guys) for me, the volume is to loud.
Bear in mind, I think 40 yards is a fairly long poke with a pointed stick.
For me the thrill is watching a coyote's expression change from 'Gonna get a rabbit, gonna get a rabbit, gonna OH SHIT !!!!!' at about 20 yards. [Big Grin]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 23, 2025, 06:19 PM:

I think distance and air current distort the sounds we use, coyote don't always hear all of the sound but parts of it enough to get it interested and to come in for a look. So, to me it's important to have the best recorded sound so you can get more of it out to the coyotes' ears.
Watch a coyote off into the distance and how it reacts to some sounds, head twisting in different directions or coyote repositioning its body or it just stands there confused or not interested in it enough.
I use two different brands of callers and see this behavior often from one caller to the next. If others don't see this then they not looking hard enough but its there.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 23, 2025, 06:29 PM:

Interesting. When I see a coyote doing the head twisting, looking around and such, it's 'usually' because there's a more dominate coyote off back in the brush somewhere and the one that I'm seeing is seeking reassurance.

YMMV.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 23, 2025, 07:57 PM:

Yes Koko I see that as well, usually a pair or more.(coyote looking back)
What i'm saying is the coyote will twist his head like turning a ear up to pick out the sound it hears, one ear then tilts head and turns up another ear.
Example you tilt head to one side almost resting it on your shoulder then you tilt your head other way. You follow??

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 24, 2025, 07:23 AM:

Ok ............ I can go along with that. I just don't see it too often in the thick brush.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 25, 2025, 11:10 AM:

I shoot them before they start looking around. Sounds like studying behavior, or something? No seriously, my attitude is shoot the first opportunity, when they stop. If they stop. If they aren’t going to stop they give that away in plenty of time. Like going downwind, which is always a parabola.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 25, 2025, 01:53 PM:

oh sure. What i'm talking about is coyotes off in distance like half mile or more, twisting their head or whatever trying to pick up the sound you are playing at them and direction. sure, coyotes have great hearing but add poor sound and weather, ground structure into the equation and their hearing will go down.

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