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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2025, 03:02 PM:
Well, I am finding that many old hands have got off the red dot bandwagon, when judging in fractions, a lot of them are a tad slower with the red dot than with traditional iron sights. Accuracy might improve but it’s a few fractions slower. So, where do we go from here?
Anyway, I bought a Mitch Rosen, is that spelling right? Inside the waist band leather holster. Came with a notice that it will require some break in. Yes, it certainly does!
I must admit that I’ve made some progress but still, this device is as tight as a Nun’s ass. Incrementally is a fair word, but this rig has a long way to go! It’s certainly well made and I have spent more time with it than any holster I have ever owned, maybe collectively?
Comments?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 27, 2025, 09:10 PM:
You definitely snagged a top notch rig. My favored OWB holster Line was Milt Sparks, also great quality rigs. Always a long 3-5 month wait to get one when you're a lefty
I know you hate to hear this shit Leonard, but all my IWB holsters are Kydex. ...yeah, fucking plastic just like a Glock.
I love leather, but for a concealed carry rig, you're seeing the issue...break in. It can be a long haul before it comes close to being slick to draw from.
The Kydex rigs are slick as snot from the get go, always proper tension, always easy to draw, they just be ugly ....pretty is as pretty does I guess?
Good luck, just keep jamming in, and drawing it out.....a million fucking times
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 28, 2025, 04:48 AM:
Try Neatsfoot Oil on the leather.
Posted by www (Member # 3918) on March 28, 2025, 06:23 AM:
Have you tried the plastic bag method?
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2025, 06:46 AM:
I use a crossfire shoulder holster but can be worn off the belt as well. Don't much care for holster you have to stick into your pants.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2025, 07:18 AM:
I’ve spent considerable time working this holster. I did see a video about the plastic bag method but, for the life of me, I cannot see where it applies, in this case? First of all, I think the bag would be ripped to shreds before I made entry.
Also, the Neatsfoot oil, I’m skeptical. This is dyed black leather and it is very ridged with either a steel-plastic or aluminum insert between the layers so I think softening the leather ain’t going to happen.
I also watched a You Tube video by Masseb Yoube, I’m murdering his name, the Arab guy with the toupee? I’m thinking, his recommendation of a 3:30 IWB position is probably the best solution.
Looks like a big number of casual episodes of watching You Tube or TV while jamming it in and prying it out, etc. over and over and scrubbing the interior with a pencil eraser on the high spots. This is much like breaking in a tight bolt action, many repetitions, or lapping the bore with JB paste. I don’t see many shortcuts?
Good hunting. El Bee
Edit: replying to TA. Yes, I agree, on one level but if you are going to carry in this state, (and, between you and me, I do) then you need small enough to stick in your pocket; like either my Seecamp32 or my Bauer/Fraser 25, which is a Baby Browning clone. Any (outside the waistband) means you must wear an untucked Hawaiian buttoned shirt, or similar.
[ March 28, 2025, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2025, 01:38 PM:
Sure, you right but I don't like any pistol with short barrel, and I don't carry all the time either.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2025, 04:39 PM:
Yeah, so I just read your custom title, but who gives a shit you don’t like short barrels? Ain’t this about my concealed carry problems? But thanks for your opinion, Tim!
I’m taking a break today. I’ll get back to breaking in tomorrow. Maybe?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 28, 2025, 10:50 PM:
Something which you may all ready know/do, it's important you actually wear the rig to help with break in.
Big difference between sitting in front of the TV stuffing the pistol in and out of the holster versus having the carry tension of the belt thru the loops and pressure of your body contour helping stretch the leather.
It's not a quick process,going to be a long haul,you'll know it's right when it is. Good luck,when it's good to go, you'll appreciate the value
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2025, 07:46 AM:
Agree with Vic. its better to wear it when you try to break it in.
If its leather there is also a leather cream, not sure on name that helps with break in..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2025, 11:12 AM:
If that’s the case, Victor, I’m nowhere near wearing it yet. To attempt to pull it out, at this point in the process, and assuming I had my belt cinched up two holes past normal, I would be using two hands to extract the gun and after doing it 3 or 4 times, I’d need a 15 minute rest. Therefore, I’m not ready for the wearing part yet. However, it’s something I hadn’t considered and I guess I need to consider it sometime mid April, if I’m lucky.
Good hunting. El Bee
Edit: in response to koko and TA about lubing or rendering the leather plyable with creams, saddle soap, Neatsfoot oil and any similar with the intention of making the leather supple and softening it….this will not happen. This is a form fitting design double layers of cowhide with a rigid insert sewed in the middle. There will be no softening of this rig. The outside will be unchanged, but the inside is where the wear must be done.
This is a challenge to explain! To exaggerate just a little; if it was run over on the freeway for about a week, you might flatten it, but it won’t be broken in a hell of a lot. This thing is as ridged as Kydex and there is no point in trying to break in Kydex.
[ March 30, 2025, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 30, 2025, 03:29 PM:
Ok ............ Before you wear the blueing off of that thing, here's something that WILL work.
(1) Put pistol in holster.
(2) Put holster in shoebox.
(3) Put shoebox in closet.
(4) Buy a Ruger .380 LCP
(5) Buy a Sneaky Pete holster.
(6) Put Ruger in Sneaky Pete.
(7) Put Sneaky Pete on belt on hip.
(8) Put some shrimp on the Barby Q
(9) Find an unused belt knife sheath.
(10) Put the spare clip in the sheath.
(11) Put sheath on belt and a decent beverage in belly with the shrimp.
(12) Your work is done. Have another beverage. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2025, 06:00 PM:
I have considered what you suggest, about rubbing the bluing off. It’s not blued. I don’t know what it is, but so far, it’s not rubbing off.
LOL! I saw a short video today, a guy shot a 380 into ballistic jell and it penetrated 3 inches! It was a Fiochi load and he admitted that it was poor quality control, so stay away from Fiochi. I think he said it was 124grain? Maybe I can find it?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 31, 2025, 03:30 AM:
Buy cheap shit,
Win cheap prizes ???
Posted by www (Member # 3918) on March 31, 2025, 06:35 AM:
https://youtu.be/fa1yU45xRjE?si=UeCdF06PSKQGHSUn
I've used this method to break in many holsters.
It's only failed me once and that holster was out of spec.
Even quality manufacturers screw up now and then.
[ March 31, 2025, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: www ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2025, 09:37 AM:
with two plastic bags kind of a cool way to do it. but basically, it's just opening up the inside of the holster to get fit or pull you want when pulling out the pistol. still end up with high spots.
I would rather soften the leather inside holster and let it form to actual shape of the pistol and thus get a smoother pull. The jerking of the pistol and even using other hand to help get dam thing out of holster don't sit well with me. Reminds me of the T.V. show with Barney Fiffe when he tries to draw his pistol out and shoots the floor. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
[ March 31, 2025, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2025, 02:08 PM:
https://youtube.com/shorts/6tt8PU95eKc?si=dTgmj4-4_SP9Ed8s
Finally found the clip of the 380 test
Edit: As far as the plastic bag method: I haven’t tried it, but I fail to see how O could shove this gun into this holster when wrapped in a plastic bag!!!!!! My feeling is the bag would rip or tear out the bottom but shoving this gun into this holster wrapped in anything, much less TWO plastic bags and some cardboard wedges, just ain’t going to happen?
[ March 31, 2025, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2025, 05:23 PM:
I think wedges is to help keep it flared out. I seen on some holsters the leather curls inward thus restricting the pistol as you try to put it back in.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2025, 09:09 AM:
I think I give up! This cannot be explained! There is no cardboard you could ever wedge into this holster, if the gun was also in it.
Ko ko, this gun isn’t cheap shit. It’s not blued, it’s some hi tech finish, Cericoat, or something like that? This is a Springfield Armory Hellcat 9mm “carry model”. It’s a slick little rig.
But the construction of the holster is two thicknesses of leather enclosing a stiff band insert between layers; I think it’s spring steel because the belt clip is spring steel. It’s leather, but it is the most ridged leather you will ever see. And it’s a hundred dollar holster, that’s not very cheap either.
There just isn’t much to break in. It’s molded and designed to be tight and ridged and the outside won’t give, the inside must be worn to fit ‘cause the outside ain’t moving. It’s dyed black, by the way. Seriously dyed black. Cut in to it and it’s black inside too.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 01, 2025, 09:35 AM:
Ok .......... If that's the way it's got to be;
The best I can offer, and this will likely make the pure at heart gag, is to soak the holster overnight in warm water, oil the pistol up, put it in a bag and oil the bag up, then jam the pistol into the holster and let it air dry in the shade for a couple of days. Then Neatsfoot oil. LOTS of Neatsfoot oil.
Edit 2 add; BTW, the cheap shit comment was directed toward the cheap ammo video. That is all. Over & out. Back to you in the studio.
[ April 01, 2025, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Kokopelli ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2025, 10:02 AM:
Yes, I gagged on that advice, thank you! OK commenting on Fiochi cheap ammo, clears that misunderstanding up.
Some times, a picture is definitely worth a thousand words, I’m not soaking this thing anytime soon. I’m pretty sure there is no solution but wearing it in. However, I did write Springfield, so let’s wait on what they have to say.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2025, 01:41 PM:
If holster is double walled just soften inside, so it displaces some of the leather or softens it to form better to your pistol, like wearing a glove so to speak. I give up now.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2025, 07:52 PM:
You know they sew it with an aluminum replica inside. It’s just super tight, that’s all I can tell ye?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2025, 08:13 PM:
If Victor comes back in here and says, “Hell yeah, I’d soak that baby in used crankcase oil and then I’d go with the plastic bag method.” Then I might consider it! Otherwise, like I did tonight for 2 hours, it’s shoving it in and yanking it out, hand rubbing it every ten operations, rinse and repeat! But no getting it wet.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2025, 08:03 PM:
I’m finally getting somewhere! This holster is still tight but compared to where I started, it’s loose as a goose. But it’s still tight. But I’m making progress! I got in there with a narrow paring knife to scrape it in highlighted places and rubbed like hell with my finger untill I had black dye all over my hands, but it’s paying off.
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 03, 2025, 08:54 PM:
Oh Leonard. Thats what leather softener is for on inside to disperse the high spots, no need for a knife. you soften the leather, and the pistol will move the high spots away, so it still fits tight. Sort of same as boot oil to soften boot enough to form to your foot.
Just say the slide on your pistol hits inside as you slide it in, you soften that area and let the front of slide push it away as you push into the holster.
[ April 03, 2025, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 04, 2025, 10:26 AM:
I'm not big on introducing paste or oils to the inside of my holsters. You never know what particular chemical might react to the finish of your pistol when it lives in the holster for a long period of time.
I have shot a blast of silicone spray inside the holster I use in competition, but then again, my revolver doesn't sit in it but for a few hours, then gets cleaned and cased.
I ride in your camp Leonard, maybe another 5,000 repetitions of shoving that Hellcat in and out will do the trick?
I would suggest when holstered , articulate the pistol fore and aft, twist left/right, anything to make a little wiggle room.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 04, 2025, 11:56 AM:
Well, a little reading of warning labels should be done prior to use. Saddle soap or neat's foot not going to harm the finish on a pistol.
Storing a pistol in a holster or soft case for long periods of time for that matter it's pretty common knowledge up in these parts not to ever do. Moisture or chemicals in actual leather when processed can cause issues as well as burned gun powder left on a pistol or gun solvent. Acid from one's hand can also damage the finish. Keep holstering away, I guess.
Maybe just holster the pistol and just wear it every day and stay out of trouble areas and you won't need to worry about pulling it out. Better to just walk away from a gun fight then try to face one or bodies will hit the floor. Question is who's??
[ April 04, 2025, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2025, 12:05 PM:
There ya go, y’all! I’m exonerated! Victor had known it all and done it all,, with pistols and handguns, although I do scratch my head after his admission about a Glock model 43X. Me personally, never owned a Glock, never desired to own a Glock and I am such a contrary asshole that I assure all members of the Peanut Gallery, I will never own a Glock….maybe a Shadow Systems, but not a Glock!
Victor is an actual participant in these handgun matches, considered the man to beat, more often than not. When it comes to two things, competition handgun shooting and 17 caliber rifles, we must defer to him, shut up and listen, because he knows what he is talking about, been there, got the Tee Shirt!
If he says lay off the oils, paste and similar, ya gotta listen! Besides, when looking at the subject in hand, my own judgement is that this thing is meant to be form fitting and snug, and softening the leather, in this case is just not recommended. If one gives the matter eyeball attention, it’s fairly easy to understand exactly why oils and creams will just defeat the purpose and why this is an elbow grease situation. The damned thing is tightly sewed with a hard form fitting circle of metal of some sort inside and that alone should tell you that softening with any substance is ruled out. It’s form fitting, skin tight, meant to hold its shape forever, and it seems like it’s one of those things that you just have to work it in. You don’t use a plastic bag to slick up a bolt action rifle! I guess it’s more like polishing it,just by wearing it in. As was stated; “5000 times”. That’s the best way I can describe it.
I hate to discount well intended advice, and this is an exceptional case, so I graciously accept and thank those who have offered their good advice.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 04, 2025, 02:22 PM:
Ok ............ one last comment and I'm off to shoot arrows up into the sky and down toward an unsuspecting foam target. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
You mentioned that you had reached out to the manufacturer for advice. Their word 'should' be the last word but I'll still throw this out for your consideration;
Le4ather is a natural substance pretty much regardless of how it's processed & made into something to serve our needs.
A couple of things that are bad for leather; sunlight, perspiration, and an overly dry climate.
Wear the holster long enough and the leather's going to need 'something' to keep from drying out and cracking. My archery shooting gloves rarely wear out. It's the sweat-salt that causes the damage even though they get more than plenty of Neatsfoot Oil regularly.
One other thing; I have a Sharpfinger knife that was left in it's sheath in a cool dry place for a couple of years or more. When I finally checked it the blade was pitted from something in the still like new sheath leather.
Eventually, that holster's going to need ...... something.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 04, 2025, 04:46 PM:
I agree Koko. Even a steel bayonet in a steel scabbard needs to be protected. But hey we just peanuts so what do we know. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2025, 04:47 PM:
Richard, your sage advice is never unappreciated. No howevers!
This Hellcat is a polymer lower, with a steel slide. As I mentioned previously, the whole thing has an application of some flat black surface treatment like a cerikote, you know a space age treatment that appears very durable. I kinda like Vic’s suggestion about an occasional shot of silicone spray even though I probably won’t do it.
The manufacturer gets a small put down here because they have had 24 hours to respond to a customer’s question and so far, nothing. As far as rendering a weapon to a holster for extended periods, I have never seen a problem and I have 50 year holsters, so I shouldn’t say never, just haven’t seen it yet. If this particular rig needs anything, I think I could treat the outside with mink oil or saddle soap, whatever? because there are two thicknesses sewed together, sandwich style, and a metal insert that will make it keep it’s shape.
Anyway, I am seeing progress finally. Not “there” yet, but I see some improvement. My hand is a bit sore from all the manipulations due to the abrasive grip texturing. The interior of my second knuckle of my middle finger is quite sore. That finger hooked under the relieved rear of the trigger guard is the point that gets all the pressure from pulling the pistol out of the holster. It’s pretty sore….but I will survive, no doubt.
Thanks everybody!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 08, 2025, 08:02 AM:
I’m reaching fruition, or at least tangible progress!
Here’s something about the draw. I’ve spent days and weeks gripping the holster with my left hand and drawing with my right. This involves holding with the left hand around the body, which affects the pressure.
Now, I am holding the holster by the belt clip, which changes everything! I now have a smooth draw with moderate resistance. It doesn’t feel like I would be ripping out the belt loops or crowding my crotch inappropriately or uncomfortably. Yeah, the belt clip is the point of resistance where I should be concentrating.
Now the problem is wearing a looser in the waist pair of pants. Takes some planning.
Or….Retro. I have a couple of pocket pistols, that fit in a pocket nicely. Baby Browning type. 25ACP, and 32ACP. Head shots. Right? Then when you have all this shit documented, you are in deep shit if you should need to defend yourself. Maybe it’s better to just be a victim?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2025, 04:33 PM:
And, here I am, enduring “THIS^GUY” telling me all about the function of leather softeners. As it applies to fucking holsters he has never seen before! Not only THAT, but it’s unbelievable what he knows about guns, bullets, cartridges, powders, barrels and everything else! The knowledge is unbelievable, I’m mesmerized by the depth of everything he knows! We are so fortunate to have him available almost 24/7, correcting us, effortlessly from his fountain of knowledge! Blows my mind, even….just kidding!
Good hunting. El Bee
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