This is topic I am wondering if I'm in the majority on this in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 26, 2016, 07:19 AM:
First off lets pretend Barnes bullets do not exist.
Whenever I'm looking for load data I use type of powder and bullet weight. I don't look at the brand or type of bullet.
How many of you substitute the brand and type of bullet vs how many of you use only load data from the bullet maker or the bullet specified in the load data book you are using say hodgdon?
I've heard some people say you should always use the bullet manufacturers load data.
I excluded Barnes because they are so unique unto themselves.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 26, 2016, 10:59 AM:
I try to integrate all available data. In fact, I never depend or rely on one source when working up something new.
I think this should include personal contacts, as well. There is nothing as lame as reinventing the wheel.
I have never used Barnes and hope I never have to.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 26, 2016, 12:50 PM:
I've tried barnes a few times with unsatisfactory results.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 26, 2016, 02:56 PM:
I kinda do the same thing.I have a Lyman manual that is 40 years old and a 35 year old Sierra. I have a more current nosler,sierre,hornandy and hodgdon manual. Plus caliber specific manuals and those little manuals put our by the powder companies. I look at several sources before loading
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 26, 2016, 08:03 PM:
35 years ago Dupont was making IMR powders. Now Hodgdon is making it and it isn't exactly the same. IMR 4831 is far hotter than the Dupont 4831. I have an old PO Ackley reloading manual that I used for many years. I'm running on memory but I believe my old charge for my 7mm Rem Mag was something like 67 grains of 4831 with a 160 Sierra. Today the max load for this bullet according to Hodgdon is 61 grains. Enough difference to cause some serious damage.
Hodgdon IMR 4895 is also hotter even though they show the max load the same as before. Use the max load in your 22-250 and you may blow out a few cases or have a stuck case in your chamber.
There are probably more powders like those but these are the ones I've had experience with.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 27, 2016, 04:16 AM:
Every barrel is different so I always pick a bullet weight and type, then choose a powder and work up according to my barrel. Sometimes the books can be off either way.
The reason I pick a bullet type vs. just weight is I've had great differences in say a 75 gr Hornady HPBT, 75 Amax and the 77 SMK. I can't use the same max loads on all 3, I do compare reccomendations but look at bearing surfaces and start accordingly.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 27, 2016, 04:19 AM:
Oh and using Barnes bullets is like running airplane fuel in your hot rod. A 62 gr TSX turns a 22-250 AI into an elephant gun...
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 27, 2016, 05:18 AM:
I do as Leonard does, compile as much data from every source possible!
That includes using NECO's Quickload program...
With a good handle on 'tweaking' QL to your specific data points, it can really streamline the process of finding a good load. And especially so for 'non-standardized' wildcats...
Here's a screenshot from QL of the 6x45AI load I just worked up & proved:
A larger shot of the bottom left graph. Note the "P-max" and "Z1" lines are stacked atop each other, and centered at the apex of the pressure curve. That's bodes well for that bullet/powder/charge to be VERY good in real life!
From bottom right of full screenshot (tough to see)
Projected results:
Pressure 58K psi (in red, but safe in my rifle)
Powder fill: 103.5%
Powder burn rate: 99.88%
Projected velocity: 2877fps
Here's "real life" avg, from Magnetospeed V3:
And a 3shot and 5 shot group @ 100yds...
Thanks, Quickload!
[ January 27, 2016, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 27, 2016, 02:57 PM:
That looks real good. How often does QC hit the mark?
I've heard good things and bad things about quick load. I've also heard about guys having to tweak QC to make it work. To be honest with you, I would take the pressure calculation with a grain of salt. I doubt any software's ability to do that except an Oehler 43. However, I'm sure QC's modeling ability are a lot truer than Al Gore's climate change model.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 03, 2016, 07:38 AM:
There is most assuredly the need to 'tweak' certain parameters.
Here's an informational link if you're interested in specifics...
Ran QL for my .30-338 Norma Improved wildcat to find a decent fireform load, and this is how it did on paper
The full house load using Retumbo is running 290fps faster, with the same accuracy.
Betyond those two recent success stories, been able to help enough friends out with powder choices & charge ranges to know that QL data can be quite useful in narrowing down options to focus on...
But, as they say, garbage IN garbage OUT. Therefore, the info is only as potentially useful as the data supplied to generate it!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 03, 2016, 12:01 PM:
Come on, Fred. We know you are bragging. Any oneholer is worth bragging about even if it's not perfect, like yours. lol
edit: you know, that group doesn't leave much room for improvement but I wonder if you would consider a 210M primer? Just for shits and giggles. Might tighten it up a little. lol
[ February 03, 2016, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 04, 2016, 09:27 AM:
Yes, and you are shooting a bit low and to the left of center...you need to sight that thing in better!
Mark
[ February 04, 2016, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on February 05, 2016, 05:35 AM:
Fred that's some good shooting. With all your charts, scales, meters and stuff I think you got way to much time on your hands. You every think of getting a women does great things for a man of your age. Hey just an old Okie giving you a hard time, just let it go it don't mean nothing.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 05, 2016, 06:45 AM:
LOL, no worries Eddie!
Matter of fact, just got back from your slice of Heaven...Oklahoma!
Did some visting with my Okie peeps, a bit of shooting & hunting, too. Jayde & me wound up taking 2nd place in the Comanche Hunt out of 96 teams. We managed to whack 8 coyotes and 2 bobcats. Jayde's cat was a gorgeous 25# that won "big bobcat", too. Man, it was a pretty tom!!!
Like Leonard says: whatever keeps ya outta the honkey tonks! Doin' my best... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
EDIT: pic of Jayde's cat
[ February 05, 2016, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 05, 2016, 07:59 AM:
That is awsome!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2016, 10:09 AM:
Them Okies won't live that down anytime soon. A New Yawker taking second place! How'd that happen?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 05, 2016, 02:03 PM:
Nicely done Fred!
- DAA
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on February 05, 2016, 04:58 PM:
Nice cat and good job on the hunt Fred!!!
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on February 05, 2016, 04:58 PM:
Nice cat and good job on the hunt Fred!!!
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on February 05, 2016, 05:01 PM:
Sorry must have hit the button twice.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 08, 2016, 09:58 AM:
Thank you, gents!
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