The New Huntmastersbbs!: Rifle accuracy needed

This is topic Rifle accuracy needed in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 16, 2014, 02:52 PM:

What accuracy do you expect from a coyote calling rifle? Accuracy acceptable for minute of coyote?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 16, 2014, 05:10 PM:

In a night rig, I feel a bit under 3/4" accuracy is desired. For most daylight stands, I think you could get by with any rifle that can do 1" groups, not "about" one inch, it should be a consistent performer, five rounds measuring 1".

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 16, 2014, 05:27 PM:

As for my short barreled, red dot topped, close quarters AR, I've used the phrase minute of coyote. It actually shoots MOA at 100 and I've killed coyotes to 300 with it(yes, it's a .223). For a scoped rifle, regardless of platform, I expect a little better, but realistically, MOA ought to be good enough for most of us.

Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 16, 2014, 05:58 PM:

I find a good bipod is a must as well..

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 16, 2014, 06:25 PM:

I prefer 1/2 MOA but know all too well that 1.5 MOA will kill most any called coyote.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 16, 2014, 06:32 PM:

Well, that's another thing. You might shoot 5X 1" off the bench, but it's a different story, accurate shooting from a bipod. One inch, using a bipod from a stool is pretty adequate, seems to me?

And, any minute now, somebody is going to tell us how the majority of his shots are well within 75 yards, so just about any marginal lever action 30-30 will do. Minute of coyote, I think is the phrase?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on March 16, 2014, 08:37 PM:

Dan, years ago I bought a Ruger #1 in 22-250 w/a 12x Leupold from a friend. That rifle was an honest 1/2" 5 shot rifle w/53 gr sierras & H380. Having that rifle made me drive several hundred miles most every weekend because I knew I could kill every coyote I saw. Point being, I had a lot of confidence every time I pulled the trigger, I think that counts too.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 17, 2014, 03:45 AM:

Actually, El Bee, it's `half minute of coyote` ............... like my Mini-14.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 17, 2014, 07:44 AM:

LB, can you call me? I left a message with my phone number. thx.

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 17, 2014, 08:52 AM:

Listen up Amigo's.

My 30/30 shoots 3"-4" groups all day long @ 50 yards, with crappy factory irons. Thats plenty good.

Nuff said... [Razz]

Signing off for now. Marlin Dave.

[ March 17, 2014, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 17, 2014, 09:58 AM:

From a hunting bolt gun, I like to see an honest 3/4" or better group maintained...

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 17, 2014, 11:38 AM:

quote:

LB, can you call me? I left a message with my phone number. thx.

WHERE did you leave your number? I don't see an email?

Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 17, 2014, 04:05 PM:

--

[ March 17, 2014, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]

Posted by Catfish (Member # 2592) on March 17, 2014, 04:05 PM:

You need to be able to hold a 3 in. group at the yardage you will be shooting coyotes. If your shooting at 50 yards. a gun that shoots 6 moa will work fine. I f your shooting 600 yards. your gun should hold 1/2 moa groups.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 17, 2014, 04:54 PM:

This would probably be a good place to point out that there is a profound difference between what a rifle will do off of a bench with sandbags and out in the real world. A rifle that shoots half minute of coyote off sandbags will likely disappoint sooner or later in the field.
Poo-poo occurs & YMMV.

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 17, 2014, 05:29 PM:

We all would be better served checking our groups off sticks, or however one would normally shoot a coyote.

Did some testing awhile back and found my .75 MOA rifle and a 1.5 MOA rifle, both shot about 2.5 MOA (off sticks) if memory serve's me correctly.

Not any scientific testing by any means, but, something to ponder though. If'n, I can find the time this year. I'll attempt to post something more profound on the subject.

Like usual, lot's of good intentions, and well ya'll know the rest.. [Wink]

[ March 17, 2014, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 17, 2014, 06:08 PM:

quote:
Apparently the home number I called was the wrong one.

Did you send me a reply email on the 15th 10:44 Am? I did not send you an email time stamped 15th 9:13 am that you apparently replied too?

Sorry, but don't know how else to communicate with you.

Yes, I sent you an email on the 15th. I don't know how I got the email from you, but I replied to it.

Where did you get the phone number that you called? If it was in the book, it's probably correct but I'm not at home yet to retrieve
messages.

As far as how to contact me. Every page on Huntmasters has two links at the bottom of the page and they both redirect to my AOL email address. Also, if you look at my information, any of those ikons has my email address.

Send me an email with your phone number and I will call you. My email address if you can't find it, is: nbosin@aol.com. Same email for 19 years, so far, I'm not hard to find.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 17, 2014, 07:03 PM:

Hi LB,

I don't know what the hell is going on, but I DID not write you an email asking you that question on Sat! Period.

In addition, I sent you a follow up email on Sat to question your reply,but did not get an answer.

So, that's why I looked up your number and tried to call u directly.

Maybe this will be more of a mystery than the 777?

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on March 17, 2014, 07:39 PM:

quote:
We all would be better served checking our groups off sticks, or however one would normally shoot a coyote.

Did some testing awhile back and found my .75 MOA rifle and a 1.5 MOA rifle, both shot about 2.5 MOA (off sticks) if memory serve's me correctly.

Shooting off of sticks tests the shooters accuracy, shooting groups from a bench tests the rifles accuracy.

Personally, If a rifle won't shoot sub moa, I don't use them.

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 18, 2014, 04:54 AM:

The older you get the less you 'go prone' and few shoot honest sub MOA groups off sticks in full battle/rattle under 'real' conditions.In wind,damn few.
I'm talking hunting sticks,not the Caldwell portable bench stuff.
Practice helps and with it there are ways to get there.
I tightened up accuracy this year by changing hand position.With a Harris bipod or similar rig consider putting the non-trigger arm n hand across your chest with the hand lightly supporting the rear of the stock about under the sling swivel.(it's well below n behind your trigger hand)It firmly holds your stock into the shoulder-a bigger,more solid 'structure' than your extended arm up front traditionally.
I don't always use it but if my sitting position allows it,I now do.Sit down and try it.Hold your crosshairs on say a fence post a couple hundred yards away and I suspect you may find they no longer wander off the post.Seems to help some.

[ March 18, 2014, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 18, 2014, 07:07 AM:

Thanx; I'll give that a try. [Cool]

FWIW; Since the o bama ammo shortage, I've been practicing some with an air rifle. Just for yucks & giggles, I've been learning to shoot off my other shoulder. Don't know how often it would be useful in the field, but it seems worth learning.
Definitely less movement switching the rifle to the other shoulder than moving the whole body for a shot to the weak side.

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 18, 2014, 07:44 AM:

Yes Koko I shoot both ways as well.My situation came about as the result of a recoil related retina detachment in 1 eye and a recoil related vitreous detachment in the other. [Frown]

In the process I learned to shoot satisfactorily both left/right handed. [Smile]

Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on March 18, 2014, 08:27 AM:

quote:
Personally, If a rifle won't shoot sub moa, I don't use them.

I have heard that from others. You'll never shoot better than the rifles abilities.

Guess I am going to go to the range soon and stretch it out past 100 to compare the rifle off of bags on a concrete table and then off of sticks. I usually shoot sitting in my chair with my elbows on my knees, but that is also generally limited to <200 yards.

I can go out to 600 at one range, but doubt I will do any good with my hunting rifle and sticks past 400.

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on March 18, 2014, 12:56 PM:

Shoot a few groups at 400 off your sticks and a dove stool. That will bring you to your milk.
kj

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 18, 2014, 04:33 PM:

We all take up all kind of crazy shooting stances. It's part of what we do, you have to adapt and overcome. I've been known to shoot stuff wrong handed and wrong eyed from the top of a ladder. Try that with your BB gun, Koko. It can be done.

I hunt from a stool, and I'm far and away the most confident with both elbows on my knees with my feet flat or heels propped up against the stool. Like DiYi, my off hand goes under the butt. The sticks are out front, no need for a hand there. Lean into it as much as you can. The more weight you support with your legs, the less wobble you'll have. Unless your name is Vic, then none of this applies.

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 18, 2014, 05:16 PM:

I am with Geordie and Fred, 3/4 inch or less. Time on the bench shooting small groups improves your confidence and like Prune Picker said that means a lot.

This year I shot just as many coyotes over 250 as I did 100 or less. Off sticks using the same method as Jim outlined and bipods too.
If most of your coyotes are shot at 100 then just about any kind of accuracy will do. Hell, you can even use a 223. LOL

Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 18, 2014, 05:38 PM:

On stand, I use a stool plus bipod. Awesome combination.

Once you own guns that shoot MOA or sub MOA, it's not fun shooting anything else.

Triggers ruin me as well...

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 20, 2014, 07:03 AM:

I won't keep a rifle in a varmint chambering that isn't an honest .5 MOA (or better) off a bench in good conditions.

- DAA

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 20, 2014, 08:10 AM:

Can I buy all your .6 MOA discards? lol

Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 20, 2014, 10:43 AM:

me too! In 22-250 and 308 please. lol

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on March 20, 2014, 02:06 PM:

Last summer I shot a bunch of prairie dogs, as usual, but I never used a bench. Shot everyone of them while sitting on my calling butt pad and used my shooting sticks.
Came time to shoot coyotes this past winter, one might say that I had some confidence.
Just told myself that I could set up and kill prairie dogs with ease off the bench, or make myself better at shooting while calling coyotes. I wasn't killing prairie dogs at all ranges, but if they were with-in 250 yards, by the end of summer, they were in danger. Got pretty comfortable with my sticks.

Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 20, 2014, 04:56 PM:

That's the way to do it, practice with your equipment..

One of the reasons why I don't have a ton of guns in the safe, I like to be intimate and understand the triggers and holds to each gun..

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 20, 2014, 08:49 PM:

Agree with that. But, have got away from it, a bit. Regrettably. Too many to keep proper track of.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 21, 2014, 04:23 AM:

Good point, F&D.

Been slowly thinning my herd and outfitting what's left with similar stocks. McMillan's A3 and Gamescout stocks have the same rear end, so the orientation is consistent between the two. LR/tactical sticks have A3s and hunting sticks Gamescouts. Least that's what I'm working toward!
Also, have the same trigger in all of 'em, a wide shoe Rifle Basix LV-1. Nice to grab any of 'em and have that familiar interaction, from one to the next...

TR, I envy you, having all those dynamic live targets to blast at! This season, I'm commiting to gettin' back to basics and will be putting in alot of time on fundamentals and bangin' steel from field positions! Those are perishable skills, indeed...

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 21, 2014, 06:45 AM:

Agreed with TR. The last few springs. Ive been wackin' sage rats (probably) about 1/2 the size of prairie dogs, almost totally off the sticks sitting on a chair or 5 gallon bucket with a pad.

I'm fairly good out to about 100, have shot some about 200 but, it gets pretty dicey..

[ March 21, 2014, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 21, 2014, 07:18 AM:

Don't be modest, Dave. That's purty good shooting' with a thuty/thuty!

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 21, 2014, 07:31 AM:

Thanks..I needed a good laugh today [Big Grin]

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 21, 2014, 07:39 AM:

Banging steel from field positions has boosted my confidence for sure. It also taught me that, while I prefer a 1/2 MOA gun, it's not necassary for a coyote sized target. Being able to shoot is way more important.

My worst shooting gun is an honest 1.5 MOA chrome lined machine gun with a 3x ACOG sitting on top and I can still hold 1.5 MOA out to 400 yards without a bench.

But I still prefer more accuracy to hunt with.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 21, 2014, 08:44 AM:

Well, that's the thing. Sure, everybody WANTS a tack driver, but what kind of practical accuracy will suffice? I like gilt-edge accuracy as much as the next guy. I'm not so sure I am shooting as well as I could, at one time but as far as a shot on game with what I have, I think I can get the job done.

Good hunting. Lima Brav 0

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 21, 2014, 09:20 AM:

When positional shooting magnifies groups size, I like having the smallest common denominator to multiply from.
I figger shooting seated, off stix increases my avg. group size by a factor of a 3-4x. And, the heavier the rifle, the better!!! Pretty much come full circle from shorty ARs, to enjoying the stability of a 10+ lb. bolt gun off the stix...

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