The New Huntmastersbbs!: Discussion on gunsafes

This is topic Discussion on gunsafes in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 14, 2013, 03:03 PM:

I have a Cannon, I think it's supposed to hold 25? I reached the point some time ago where it's a pain in the ass to remove or replace a certain firearm, what with rearranging to accommodate different configurations, etc, etc. And, I wind up bumping them with inevitable scratches. Not that I am fussy with my guns, I am not.

So, with this long preamble, I would like to start a discussion about safes and what is needed. I talked to a man not too long ago that was awaiting delivery on a deluxe model.

I noticed that Costco has an online sale on what they call a Big Horn safe. I assume it's made in China and all that, says it's rated for 30 minutes.

If you bolt it to the floor and back it up against a wall, how much protection do I really need, in view of the fact that I pay $200 a year specifically for firearm coverage?

The Costco safe is around $560 due to a $200 rebate. That's delivered. Sure seems tempting, just for the luxury of putting guns inside without stacking 8 or 10 against the wall to get at another one.

Comments welcome.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on April 14, 2013, 03:47 PM:

Get one about twice as big as what you think you need. Gunsafes are like tents. A four-man tent is about right for two people.

I got a Liberty Colonial 30 last year and almost got a 20 which means it's supposed to hold 20 long guns. Thank goodness the salesguy said "Go bigger" I don't have that many firearms, but my 15-20 long guns about fill the Colonial 30 up.

I wasn't too worried about fire (knock on wood), but I noticed a increase in stolen firearms in may area over the past year or two and wanted one place to have them all locked up. I had them scattered all over the house in closets, under beds, etc.. Having optics, legal jumbo, albums, and a few pistols all locked up in one spot gives me the feeling of a bit more security.

I've heard about some problems with cheaper safes and the electronic locks when I was doing my research on safes. Not sure if this is accurate or not, but I went with the key and manual dial system.

Another thing, if they offer delivery, even for what seems a hefty price, take it. The best $75 bucks I ever spent was watching two husky dudes get my 640 pound safe in place without so much as a scratch and nobody had a screwed up back afterwards.

Posted by KaBloomR (Member # 4252) on April 14, 2013, 03:51 PM:

I need to invest in a decent fire-rated safe. I have 2 of the stack-on steel gun cabinets. Due to the light weight of them, I lagged both into the wall and floor. As far as capacity goes, I think all of the manufacturers determine it with how many single shot break action shotguns will fit inside.... [Smile]

[ April 14, 2013, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: KaBloomR ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 14, 2013, 06:05 PM:

I thought the dial combination would be better, still don't know what the experts say but I have come to like the electronic lock. That part doesn't bother me.

Another thing. Tom Moore had two safes and everything inside was ruined. I don't know what the brand was, but they did give him two new safes, no questions asked. The thing is, they don't guarantee the contents, at all, so after your bitchen fire rating expires, your shit inside is toast. If your house burns down, forget about your guns, the safe is pretty useless in a major fire.

So, that boils down to theft. What I heard was that the thieves don't bother with the locks or the door, they get in the back with a cold chisel and hammer, or a sidewinder with an abrasive wheel courtesy of your wall plug 110V. This is why you want to bolt it in a corner, giving them just one side to work on. If you have two safes, side by side pretty much guarantees that they won't get into the one closest to the corner.

For sure, bolt the safe to a concrete floor, no matter how much it weighs. If these guys can steal ATM machines, don't worry, they can take your safe.

So, a safe is better than nothing but it's not fool-proof.

Anyway, I'm thinking the economy safe is good enough for my purposes. Browning, Liberty, Fort Knox are a few of the names that have a quality product but they don't give them away and if you move occasionally, the big ones are a chore to transport.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 14, 2013, 06:30 PM:

Yeah, when you store long guns with optics, the rating goes right out the window. I went with one of these kits and increased the capacity to an acceptable level. Take out the original racks and you'll be surprised how much more roome there is. Doesn't look as cool, but I'm about the only one who sees inside anyway.

Store more guns

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 14, 2013, 11:24 PM:

That's actually kind of interesting, Jim. I need to take a hard look at what I have and how I could improve the arrangement. Maybe I don't need another safe?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 14, 2013, 11:54 PM:

I have flip flopped over and over about buying a larger safe or just adding another safe on the opposite end of the house. Your most used guns in one and the pretty ones in the other. Regardless, mount them on concrete w/ red heads (anchor bolts)
From what I have been told, most of the fire proof safe builders use dry wall as an insulator. Buy the best that your budget allows.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 15, 2013, 12:55 AM:

Yes, it's drywall, the thickness varies. The theory is that the wallboard has a moisture content and as long as there is moisture inside the safe, your gear won't cook. I don't know if a pan of water on the floor would help extend the minutes? So, as long as the temperature is under 212°, less than the boiling point of water or water vapor, something like that?

But, it doesn't take much of a fire to dry out the interior of a safe and when that happens, your stuff will be damaged beyond repair. And, as has been mentioned, the optics are particularly vulnerable. I have guns that are worth a lot less than the glass mounted on them.

Maybe a sprinkler system is the smartest solution because if you have a house fire and the trucks are hosing down your house from the street, there won't be anything worth saving, other than stopping your fire from catching the neighbor's house on fire. How's that for a run on sentence?

I think the fire rating is not very useful. What I expect from a safe is that somebody that breaks in won't have the tools to beat their way into my safe....unless they look in the garage where they could find a lot of helpful tools. <shrug>

Good hunting. El Bee

[ April 15, 2013, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 15, 2013, 01:19 AM:

I have mine mounted in a corner with only the door exposed. Sure they can use a torch or whatever, but if that happens you probably know the thief.
I must add that me having a safe is the best thing I ever did for both peace of mind and the added safety factor. By the way, I have a Cannon 23(?)also.

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on April 15, 2013, 07:55 AM:

Interesting topic, I'm gonna' ponder any comments myself as I'm thinking of a new safe.

I'm with Lonny, have it delivered even if it's $75-$100 bucks whatever.

I work @ a Deere store and we sell JD safes, and have had the pleasure (not) of delivering 4-5 safes this past winter. It SUCKS ! Damn good way to blow out a guys guts or back.. [Frown]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 15, 2013, 08:02 AM:

I just run rubber coated cable through the trigger guards. Have to have a special tool to cut it and would still take about the same time to get them free as it would take to crack the safe.. Two steel rods locked together on the ends will do the same..

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 15, 2013, 08:21 AM:

My safe is rated to hold 20 long guns , I currentley have 6 long guns in it and consider it full.They dont mind you unloading everything to get to one gun , or scratching the crap out of what you have. If I ever get a larger safe I will go as big as I can afford and have room for.

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 15, 2013, 09:10 AM:

Since few protect from fire,an alternative is to have a false wall or built in hiding place.In our last home,no one would have found mine without taking the house down.The 'key'(pun intended) is NO ONE knowing about it.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 15, 2013, 09:23 AM:

Tim, are your trigger guards like mine, removable?

I guess hiding guns is an option? I have a room in the garage with three dead bolts on it that I can use, has a wall rack inside.

Good hunting. Lima Brav 0

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 15, 2013, 09:36 AM:

LB,
You just turned the 'key'. [Smile]

Now you need a new place.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 15, 2013, 09:51 AM:

quote:
Tim, are your trigger guards like mine, removable?

Yep some are held on with slot screw head or a hex bolt in varis sizes..
The thing is if someone wants to steal some guns they usually want all of it rather then more than a hand full of pieces, too many trips back and fourth.. You know all those trigger locks some rifle manufactures gave away with the new rifles or pistols you can use them as well hooking two rifles together and then hooking same lock to a second so its just one big chain.. Pretty tuff to grab all of them and get out of a cabinet at once..
As for the safes with a electric lock all you need is a hammer or pry bar along with a power source and some wires... [Smile]

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 16, 2013, 06:24 AM:

Home Depot ONLINE carries Cannon safes, and they offer free delivery... [Wink]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 16, 2013, 08:35 AM:

I said this two days ago:

quote:
The Costco safe is around $560 due to a $200 rebate. *That's delivered*. Sure seems tempting, just for the luxury of putting guns inside without stacking 8 or 10 against the wall to get at another one.

And I wouldn't doubt that the shipping could be $75/$100?. Hell, I could use it just to stack the gold coins that everybody will be unloading pretty soon.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit to put asterisks around the free delivery

[ April 16, 2013, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on April 16, 2013, 09:35 AM:

http://cesafes.com/
Here is an excellent video on gunsafes.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 16, 2013, 10:51 AM:

Yes, I have seen that video and am well aware of the difference in quality. Am I the typical Ferrari customer or is a Mazda more my speed? I think I am an economy customer, tell you the truth. Is it wasting my money, I don't know but it's better than stacking them in the closet.

I have a gun cabinet upstairs, in my den. You know, sliding glass doors? It has no guns in it. Remember those days? It was 1975, New Years Eve and only one of those guns was ever returned to me, my Colt Combat commander, ten years later.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on April 16, 2013, 11:08 AM:

You should have had a cable running through the removable trigger guards, LB. LOL!!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 16, 2013, 11:21 AM:

I guess I'm the only one that still uses a gun cabinet..Of course I don't live in a high crime rate area, thank God.. [Big Grin]

How many theives you think run around with a set of screw drivers and hex-head wrenches in there pockets.? Like mentioned you proably know who they are... But is'nt that what insurance is for??? [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 16, 2013, 11:41 AM:

Yeah, I really wanted the Commander with the removable trigger guard, at the time, so incase I moved to Minneesota, I could fire it with my mittens on, but settled for the old-fashioned model.

Tim, I USED TO LIVE IN A (sort of) HIGH CRIME AREA, and in fact, it was exactly one year later, on New Year's Eve, that I moved in to the house I presently live in, 38 years ago. I don't know why you bother with the cable through the trigger guards in your nice area?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 16, 2013, 12:09 PM:

Its just to keep the kids from handleing them when I'm away for the most part and maybe a little piece of mind. The thing is if someone wants them bad enough they are just going to take them anyway reguardless if they are in a safe or not. I still worry some about the kids and could careless about the rest... [Big Grin]

quote:
Tim, I USED TO LIVE IN A (sort of) HIGH CRIME AREA,

I know what you mean. I had a sister live close to where you did. Stayed over one night and had my combat boots stolen from the truck... Its better out in the rural areas.... [Big Grin]

[ April 16, 2013, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on April 17, 2013, 12:28 PM:

Leonard, Type X Gypsum is higher moisture content, is fire rated and has fibers in the gyp to help hold it together.
Carl

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 18, 2013, 08:05 AM:

quote:
or scratching the crap out of what you have.

gun socks are your freind. All of my wood stocked guns wear gun socks for just this very reason, avoid some of the "gun safe queen" scratches and dings.

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on May 22, 2013, 07:46 AM:

Just a short addendum here.Found out that here in SoDak at least,to insure guns I couldn't just add coverage to my Homeowners but had to purchase 'Inland Marine' coverage at the rate of $1.70 per $100 of coverage.Ouch but at least coverage is available if wanted.Decided to insure a few select ones myself.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 22, 2013, 08:14 AM:

I probably mentioned in this thread? that I pay $200 for $25,000 extra coverage. Based on the rates in SD, it's a bargain.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: did I do that right? I got $42,500?

[ May 22, 2013, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on May 22, 2013, 08:26 AM:

Indeed Leonard.
And I thought xtra coverage on 'personal property' was covering me before.Not so on my policy.A rip off.

Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on May 22, 2013, 10:46 PM:

Come on LB, loosen up some of those purse strings and spend some of that doe of yours, my god man!

That was an excellent video.

I find it really bizarre when safe makers advertize how many bolts are in the door and how large they are, bolts in the corners,bolts up the ass, shit!
1-1/2" 1-1/4",it's a joke. No body is going to pry a 1/4" steel door with door bolts half that size, enough to be able to reach your arm in there to pull something out! Sheer strength!Peel the door back? Not with a crow bar, any ideas?
Remember in the video of the white safe with the side peeled open? That's how you enter one,not by the door!. I could do that in 15-20 minutes with a cordless drill with a hole saw, followed by a cordless reciprocating saw, too easy, however....
Having a stainless steel liner installed would certainly slow down or stop that side entry. Stainless would be extremely difficult to hole saw and cut with a saw.
My solution along with the above mentioned is to have an alarm system for the house. Response time for the Police to arrive, around 10 minutes, that's not enough time to screw around with a safe or much else in the house.
Go as big as you can. They may advertize a 12, 20, 52 gun safe, but once you have scopes installed, it becomes less than advertized.Rifles need to be staggered. As years go by, somehow,more guns seem to accumulate, more room is needed.One begins to ponder, shit, I should have gotten a bigger safe! I should of listened to that guy.
Height is another thing, shotguns, rifles with long barrels, are not going to fit in a 60" safe with shelves in it. Go with the 72".
Interior lights and a electronic lock is a "no brainer"
You see, I've already been through the above drill!
Cheers! Gary

Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on May 23, 2013, 08:43 AM:

"Shear" strength

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 23, 2013, 09:28 AM:

I remember you saying last year that you had a big safe on order? Everything you say is true, except my wealth. Especially extra height to accommodate those long shotgun and rifle barrels. And, big scopes really cut down on capacity. I know the big bolts are a joke but they impress even the thieves.

However, considering the price of those deluxe safes, I think two economy models is a reasonable alternative.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ May 23, 2013, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on May 29, 2013, 10:44 AM:

I've got a sticker on mine that says "Contains Black Powder and Explosives. Do not cut or weld" There's a little line art picture of a barrel of Black powder exploding just to bring home the idea.

I also added a big red sign to the from door which says "This safe is booby trapped. Any unauthorized entry will cause severe injury or death. Contact XXXXX at XXXXX in order to disarm the anti-theft system"

Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on May 31, 2013, 07:41 AM:

LB,
I am looking into a modular safe to be able to get it into my reloading room/man cave. Unless I am able to convince my wife that a pretty safe is furniture and looks good in our basement family room, I am relegated to a take down safe to get around the corners I need to.

I have been researching the Zanotti safes, but am intrigued by Snapsafe at www.snapsafe.com. The price seems reasonable for the protection offered.

Like the thread indicates, I have been told to plan on getting a safe that will hold twice the number of guns I own to keep from having a shoe horn to get them all in.

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