quote:

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Question #1, do you take binoculars on stand?

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quote:

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Second question: Do you carry a handgun on stand?

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Yup, 100% of the time. Of course, I've also been known to carry a handgun into Walmart, a restaurant, a convenience store, and just about any place else I might go. Never had a reason to use it in any of those places yet, but I do use it to dispatch a wounded coyote now and then.

Along the border isn't the only place you may encounter danger. We were out on horseback about 20 miles north of Phoenix a few years ago and rode up on a drop/pick up encampment. When that happens, it will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck. I'm limited to a 5 round magazine on my machine gun, but the XD holds 13 plus 1.

In bear country, I too, would opt for a large caliber revolver.

Edit for spellin

[ March 08, 2011, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 08, 2011, 07:52 PM:
 
I carry neither a binocular or a handgun when hunting. Many an accquaintance has asked why,being a big fan of handguns, and competing for 30 years with handguns, why I don't pack while out hunting, especially along the border.My pat answer, and sincere feeling is, why; I have a damned rifle in my hands, which can do anything a handgun can...times ten.
Like Jim, I do carry concealed while in Wallmart,at the bank, post office etc...why?.....becasue I can't conceal my rifle:)
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 08, 2011, 07:56 PM:
 
Binoculars;
Yes. A pair of compacts in the callng bag. Rarely used but useful when needed.

Pistol;
Yes. .22 Derringer. Again, rarely used but useful when needed.

49-??
Does your `agency` have a problem with the Colt 1911 / .45apc ??? Seems to be a proven performer and nothing else says `smile - wait for the flash` quite like the 1911.

(Been wanting to use these things {````} for a couple of days now. )
 

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Posted by RonFin (Member # 3483) on March 08, 2011, 08:18 PM:
 
49...Revolver

LB...Binoculars, always. On a short, old time neck strap. I don't pop the covers until I'm done with the stand. Then I'll take a look see. Have glassed a bunch of bobcats that I had no idea were in the area. Also get a lot of use checking out vehicles or people that wander near my location.

Handgun on stand...I'd like to. Haven't done it yet.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 08, 2011, 08:19 PM:
 
Yes on the Binoculars.. I call mostly open country and there helpful spotting the coyotes that like to play peek a boo...

A pistol on stand or when hunting? No! No reason or need to have one along...
Years ago I did use a xp-100 for hunting but sold it along with all my handguns except for one that I may never get rid of and thats a 22 Auto-Mag..

If I had to carry one for hunting or protection it would be a revolver in 357 Mag... Recovery time would be much faster compared to a big bore if follow up shots are needed...
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 08, 2011, 09:58 PM:
 
Don't go for recovery time, go for a first round kill with as much power as you can handle and shoot accurately. Don't count on a second shot, make the first one count. Practice at moving targets at a range if you can.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 08, 2011, 10:43 PM:
 
I agree with what Vic said. As long as I have a rifle, I don't feel naked, at all.

But besides that, a holstered handgun on my waist really gets in the way, either side. I have a slung rifle over one shoulder and on the other, I have a CS24, shooting sticks and a stool. If I sling a shotgun over my other shoulder, (and I do, occasionally) that holster is going to be a problem. I've looked at chest holsters at gun shows but not seriously. An ankle holster for out in the woods is just not practical, at all. So, I leave my Combat Commander back at the truck. For that sort of application, it's just the ticket.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 09, 2011, 06:33 AM:
 
Binos, Every stand.

Pistoola, recreational calling I never used to, but I never do any recreational calling. So every morning for work I slip my 617 S&W kit gun in whatever I'm wearing. I pack it all day every day. Trapped animals, skunks, snakes, etc. Just like mastercard. Never leave home without it.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 09, 2011, 09:42 AM:
 
Thanks..it sounds like the 44 mag revolver is the choice. I guess I'll ahve to save up some $$ Lol.

Koko....yes, a .45 ACP is permitted by our SOP's at work.

Interestingly, there is a guy over on Glocktalk who was attacked by a black bear. He had a 44 mag revolver with him, which he emptied on, and at the bear.. Now, due to his experience he carries a 10 MM Glock 20. If nothing else, it is an intriguing post. I will dig up the thread later if Leonard doesn't mind.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 09, 2011, 10:02 AM:
 
I would be very careful of basing my decisions on chatter coming out of Glocktalk. I mean, of course, more rounds, bugger bore, etc. and a backup in an ankle holster, just in case.

I wonder though? This guy (apparently wearing a garbage suit?) is attacked by a black bear in the woods, scares him off by firing his 44Mag but no dead bear? It's obvious he needs more rounds, since it is likely to happen again, right?

We need to analyze this guy and find out if he has a vivid imagination, or he actually has the scars to prove it. This is the lamest justification I ever heard for arming one's self with a high capacity semi auto. My bullshit meter is pegged.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 09, 2011, 10:10 AM:
 
If he can't shoot the 44 and missed then it doesn't matter what he missed with does it?

That's the reason I didn't buy the 329, I couldn't shoot it well and if you think you will rise to the occassion when needed, you are sadly mistaken.

We simply fall to our level of training.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 09, 2011, 12:05 PM:
 
Leonard, I definately won't make my decision based just on the GT post. I posted my concerns here because I value the opinions given, especially when it comes to this type of thing. Edit: Reread the post and apparently the poster says he didn't miss.

Just an aside note, the reason I care about the weapon being authorized by my agency is due to the fact that if I do have to use it in self defense against a human being, my agency most likely will not back me if it is not authorized. And I can just hear the prosecution in court, "Well Officer 49, you DID kill the "victim" with an unauthorized weapon, didn't you?" This weighs in the back of my mind.

Anyhoo, here is the Glocktalk post, and the entire thread...I don't know the guy who posted it (post #50):

quote:

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3/4Flap
Senior Member


Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Idaho Nowhere near a McDonald's
Posts: 261 It may be a troll, but it is a big deal to me...

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Sorry...this is long.

I have shot many dogs with a rifle, some with a pistol/revolver, only one bear with a handgun. The dogs; .45 Colt, .357 SIG, 9x19, .45 ACP .

Troll thread or not, the issue is an important one for us here. On the ranch here, we used to have frequent visits by stock-chasing dogs. We killed them because they cause tremenodous damage to livestock. Since the idiotic introduction of wolves and population increase of that trash, the issue has altered somewhat. We have fewer dogs but wolves remain. I have had them follow me in my skitrack.

Having killed various dogs and of course coyotes with pistols, I am not concerned with the need for power per se. In fact, I seriously considered a FN FiveseveN pistol for ski jaunts due to its light weight. Bear are underground that time of year and I feel the 5.7 would do well even on large wolves. For years I carried a TT33 or .357 SIG.

Now, what happens when you shoot a dog? Well, they drop to the shot if hit CNS, or run if not. I once shot a 50 pound stock chaser 7 times fast with a .357 SIG and 140 grain Sellier & Bellot bullets and it only dropped at the 8th shot. My son standing nearby watched each bullet exit the dog and strike the hard trail under it, kicking up dust each time. Elapsed time was not long but the thing took 7 to go down.

I also shot another dog once with 260 grain Lyman 454190 semi-pointed {old mold} bullets. I hit it fast double action 4 times and it dropped after shot 5.

I've shot literally truckloads of skittish, semi-wild ranch sheep and rams with various calibers in FMJ {moslty } persuasion and long ago dumped the .45 for FMJ work {stock killing}.

As for bear, I have not shot too many, 9 total. All but one with a rifle. Two were a little exciting and a bit troublesome. One, real bad.

That was the one shot with the .44 Mag using a "heavy .44 Special" load; Nosler 240 JHP at 1175 fs.

My bad pistol fight took place with a very small bear that was enraged by the hounds {imagine that} and took 6 lethal {but not CNS} hits with my .44 and ultimately died at my ankles after my 14-year-old son dove over my shoulder to "bayonet" it with a single shot from a 7x57R. I'm not too bad a shot with a sixgun and the first 3 shots were called in a running fight, with the front sight etched in my head when the trigger broke on each shot. First at 40 yards, through and thorough shot; lungs; as it ran across an old dark, dim, overgrown skid trail. Bear dropped.

Then when the dogs got to it...blew up, grabbing a dog and rolling down off the cut bank.

Next was as it ran away from me, the shot being put on the seat of its pants and was the only round we recovered. Shot was about 15 yards as I chased it. Then, the next was as it turned and swatted at its ass, saw me and charged. That shot went off at something liem 10 yards or so but was a bit high/too far back, hitting about at the last rib going rear ward.

That fight lasted maybe 2 minutes {?} and left everyone there grabbing their breath and stone quiet when the bear stopped moving. They are damn tough animals and not to be trifled with if you pick a fight with one. Any pistol will leave you at a disadvantage mostly thru shootability so think hard about a gun that kicks so much you can't fire it from weird positions because you might have to fire weak-handed from lying on your back or some such thing.

Last 3 of my shots on that critter were fired one-handed with the gun pressed into the bear's chest and shot fast double action. My son later said they sounded like a burst from our old .45 ACP Stemple submachinegun. I miscounted and thought I fired twice which left me with an empty gun and a bear lunging at me, on my ankles. I then stuck the muzzle on the bear's head and commenced "clicking". My son heard the "clicks", saw me struggle to pull rounds from my gun belt and then came over the top. He didn't stand around trying to do the math. He's a good kid.

Anyway, that whole affair highlights a few things about sixguns, woods and protection. Mostly that I screwed up in my round count and that it is utterly impossible to say before the fight how it is all going to end. Like we said when I was boxing, who knows after the first haymaker flies? The other guy has ideas of his own and he's not gonna share them with you until he finds your jaw with his fist. Ditto bear.

There are a lot of computer-selling, paper-punching, gunfighter wannabes lurking on these sites that will tell you they will "place their shot" here or there in a fight.

Well, let them talk, or rather, type.

I just more-or-less deepsixed the 5.7 plan, and bought a Glock 20. I'll keep my targets and posting on that one on the 10 site.

Anyway, for dogs, get a fast opening HP in 115 or 124 grain 9x19 and a good fast-opening HP in the heavier calibers too, and remember, as you go up in caliber, some bullet need more resistance to open. For dogs or protection from woods trash like wolves, use a good HP but make sure it opens. The 7.62x25, 9x19, or on up with HP's should go well. Don't use FMJ's if you want them to stop. That goes for the worthless .45 ACP, too {FMJ-wise}. I've shot truckloads of butcher critters with the various calibers using FMJU's and now don't even own a .45. I se no difference between it and the 9x19 when FMJ's are used.

I have ZERO experience with big grizzly, but from what I've sen with black bear, use a rifle for protection.

I can go into the ballistics of my load in detail if you like, but for the small bear I fought, it sucked.

Here's the bear. I don't take pix of dogs. Just kill 'em and use them for yote bait..

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http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1311817

[ March 09, 2011, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 09, 2011, 02:42 PM:
 
Interesting post. I don't know why he advocates hollowpoints at handgun velocities? The best you can hope for is that they might flatten a little. I think a semiwadcutter or Keith style bullet as they say hard cast, would accomplish as much. I still think it sounds a bit mellowdramatic. What the hell were his dogs doing, if not chewing on the critter? And, as soon as the dogs had his bear stopped, he should have been ready to stick a bullet in him. Well, I wasn't there?

But. I agree with what he said about a dog withstanding many rounds. I shot a coyote with eight FMJ once, all right in the breadbasket, from inside a dozen feet and had to finish him off with a rock. Sometimes a critter don't know when he's licked.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 09, 2011, 03:00 PM:
 
A 240grain HP isn't a "heavy" .44mag round. HP's aren't the wisest choice for bear either. Glocks are for gangster fights...big 6 shooters are for bears or taking out the entire gang. Don't bring a pea shooter to a serious gunfight.

[ March 09, 2011, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 09, 2011, 03:08 PM:
 
Tundra I had thought of what you had said earlier, that you may get only one or two rounds on a charging bear, if you're lucky. And in this case I would agree with the heavier, more powerful bullet.

I guess the above advocates shootability, and a greater number of rounds after his experience? This is more along the lines of what I think Tom was trying to say as far as shootablilty.

Again, the whole qualification issue is still a factor for me, at least until my retirement.

Edit: Yes Leonard I think he was being a bit melodramatic. He probably realized his audience was a bunch of glocktalkers and not the same breed exhibited here at Huntmasters.

[ March 09, 2011, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 09, 2011, 04:27 PM:
 
4949,
With brownies on a dead run or in a panic situation, the one shot is typically all you're going to get. If you need the gun for work qualification stuff, I'd just save the money for the Ruger SRH Alaskan .454 if it were me. I think that guys story is a freak type incident and not the norm by any stretch of the imagination. There's always the big Magnum Research Desert Eagle Semi Auto .44mag as well if you kinda want the best of both worlds for black bear.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 09, 2011, 04:43 PM:
 
The Ruger looks like a serious wheelgun, tundra.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1221791
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 09, 2011, 04:47 PM:
 
here's an account of a brown bear attack

http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/080709/out_478669517.shtml
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 09, 2011, 07:14 PM:
 
That guy was lucky.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 09, 2011, 07:25 PM:
 
"I guess the above advocates shootability, and a greater number of rounds after his experience? This is more along the lines of what I think Tom was trying to say as far as shootablilty."

Guess I wasn't clear enough. I've heard guys say "I won't shoot the heavy loads until I need them" but if you can't shoot a gun when everything is perfect and you have time to concentrate, you will not be able to make hits with it when the pressure is on.

A 22LR to the eye would be better than missing with a 44...
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 09, 2011, 07:43 PM:
 
So you are suggesting go with a 10MM because it would be more shootable under pressure? Or are you suggesting don't train with a .454 using .45 Colt loads?
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 09, 2011, 09:11 PM:
 
I'm saying choose what you shoot best.

I watched a guy shoot a 500 Linebaugh and I'm sure he'd pick that one. I'd rather get ate by the bear than shoot it...

For me, I'd take my 629 Mountain Gun over any other pistol.

 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 09, 2011, 11:07 PM:
 
If you haven't shot the high power hand cannons, it's worth testing out. Some guys absolutely hate it and flinch like mad and couldn't hit a bear at 3 feet. I make it habit to get used to shooting the heavy stuff accurately and quickly so if the situation of a bear encounter ever occurs, I'm ready..or at least armed and trained as best as I feel as I could be.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 09, 2011, 11:23 PM:
 
I'm more bothered by stiff 357 loads than 44Mag. My barrel is 7.5 maybe that's why, but I think it's rather pleasant to shoot and the trigger is to die for. It's a plain vanilla Ruger Red Hawk and I like it very much. If I can pull that cannon out of the holster, I think I can manage a fairly tight group, under pressure.

I mean, I don't know if we need a 454, especially if you are scared of it. Damn, back in the day, a 44Mag was the cats ass. Now we are seriously undergunned, or what?

Okay, going hunting, be good and if anything comes up, Higgy is in charge, as usual. Don't burn the place down.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 09, 2011, 11:52 PM:
 

quote:

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I'm more bothered by stiff 357 loads than 44Mag.

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For what its worth, put a rubber grip on it if you have'nt done so..
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 10, 2011, 05:44 AM:
 
I shot the big 500 S&W and it wasn't bad at all but the dang thing with a scope weighed as much as a rifle, a big rifle. So it depends alot on the pistol too.

Now when ol Hank shot that Linebaugh, it was all he could do to not let it smack him in the head but he loved it.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 10, 2011, 07:07 AM:
 
My daily trapping pistol mentioned is the 617 airlite in 22LR, but if you are sending me to bear country, I have a Freedom Arms in 454. Premier grade, 6 inch, Magnaported. I love that gun! They are designed to shoot magnum payloads without destroying the shooters hands. I have had and shot tons of other big bore pistols, but none fit my hand and soak up recoil like the FA.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on March 10, 2011, 07:49 AM:
 
18'' 870 shot gun , 3" Magnum Sabot slugs and 24'' machete that's what I carry tracking wounded black bear and hogs .
I haven't tacked any bear other then black bears but I am most comfortable with a shot gun.
And lots of places i hunt hand guns are a no no
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 10, 2011, 07:57 AM:
 
I'd sure hate to be toting a hand cannon when one of these comes at me.


 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 10, 2011, 12:43 PM:
 
I would like to know the circumstances surrounding that pic.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 10, 2011, 01:13 PM:
 
Here is my hand cannon:



I would like something with a short barrel for carry as a backup.
 

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Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on March 10, 2011, 01:42 PM:
 
Binoculars there in the bag that stays in the truck and the binoculars hardly ever see the light of day.I have had five coyotes come right in under my nose.I do not even have a handgun not that I'm down on hand guns that's not it at all.I think the last time I shot a hand gun was around 1974 or 1975. a 38 and 357.
edit hey I left out the word truck

[ March 10, 2011, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Cayotaytalker ]
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 10, 2011, 04:03 PM:
 
Tundra, I'm sure that you are more experienced with big bears than the rest of us. I've never had to fool with them much. I haven't hunted any of the grizzly infested areas in Wyoming for several years, but I'd rather have a hand cannon than a hiking staff!
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 10, 2011, 04:05 PM:
 
Being in a state that has grizzlies, you do hear some funny stories though. I heard a guy in a taxidermy shop expounding on the merits of pepper spray and how it would stop a bear in its tracks. Another wise ass patron said, "thats perfect, it will give me time to get my pistol out and have a nice standing shot!"

[ March 10, 2011, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 10, 2011, 04:18 PM:
 
Yep when hiking in bear country its always good to make sure you hike with someone you can outrun.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 10, 2011, 04:19 PM:
 
I've never had to shoot a charging bear, but I've been around plenty of them. I had to move out of the way on rivers to give them room to fish before. They usually don't pay attention to people in those situations unless you startle them, or get between a sow and cub. I did have one step on the guideline of my tent one night though. Needless to say, I awoke quickly with the hand-cannon ready to go (it's always above the pillow in the tent). He tore off into the woods when I rustled around. Pepperspray and Bells...the stuff bear dung is made of.

[ March 10, 2011, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 10, 2011, 04:21 PM:
 
4949,
Here's a little history of the guy who shot the bear.

http://www.aviationhalloffamewisconsin.com/inductees/reeve.htm
 

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Posted by DEL GUE (Member # 1526) on March 10, 2011, 05:56 PM:
 
Sorry, 49. I didn't notice this thread till just now.

I always carry binos when I hunt. When hunting, sometimes I carry a pistol, sometimes not.

A 357 Sig is a close match to a .357 Magnum. The Sig round throws out a .355 125 gr. JHP at a nominal 1350 f.p.s., which is only 100 f.p.s. behind the vaunted .357 Mag 125 gr. JHP load. A 10mm shooting the Winchester 175 gr. Silvertip at 1240 f.p.s. is mostly comparable to a mid-range .41 Magnum load. The 'heavy' bullet in 10mm is 200 grains. Loads can go as light as 135 gr., if I recall correctly.

When I camp in grizzly country, I sleep with a Ruger 5 1/2" Redhawk loaded with Federal 300 gr. Castcores. Griz coming into camp at night is a different griz than you surprise on the trail hiking, or with cubs, or over a kill. Those bears attack because they were surprised, or you intruded on a kill site, or because of maternal protective instincts. Griz coming into your camp at night and attacking you is for one reason, and one reason alone: they are hunting, and you are seen as prey, and therefore they intend to kill and eat you. A semi-auto is not the best choice for trying to defend yourself from a bear attack in a tent at night. Waking up surprised, confusion, tent collapsing around you, bear swatting at you or biting you or whatever...those are prime conditions for a semi-auto to get hit during the cycling process and jammed. Consequently, I want a double-action revolver for that kind of situation.

In a hunting situation ref black bears, where I am up and about and awake, and can see a threat coming, and already have a rifle with me, I don't have a problem with a semi-auto. Especially if I am carrying it also as an anti-personnel weapon, or may stop somewhere going to or from the hunt. You don't get to pick when and where the shit hits the fan, or make an appointment for that kind of thing so that you can bring what you want..you either have it or you don't.

Additionally, blackie isn't the same bear griz is. I would have absolutely no qualms about carrying a 10mm when dealing with a black bear. Griz is bigger, and meaner, and I'd want a .44 for him.

The fact that your agency will let you qualify with the 10mm and not the .44 means that the 10mm could also be carried for social purposes with their blessing. It never hurts to have another pistol around that you are authorized to carry and use. That makes it dual-purpose.

You already have a 6" .44, from what you say. Is there some reason you don't want to use that? I would say if you want to carry a .44, just carry that one.

I also see a pistol as there for different applications. I consider it there for finishing something, if need be, or for social purposes, should that be necessary. I would consider the rifle the primary hunting arm.

Understand something else, too. There is such a thing as too light. Those scandium-framed things are indeed very light and a joy to carry, but I've heard they can be a bear for recoil. The Glock is light, and carries a lot of shots. Meaning if you are way back somewhere, you are gonna have more ammo in the Glock than the .44, should you need it.

Yes, Leonard, Glocks sometimes go off...if people aren't careful using them. Same can be said for all weapons. Glocks are in use by a large number of law enforcement agencies. If they were having a.d.'s all the time with them, they would have dumped them a long time ago.

49, I'm not gonna tell you what to get. You know your needs, and your wants, and can assess your situation better than I can. If you wanna talk off-grid, email me. I have a .44 Magnum Redhawk, a Glock 32 .357 Sig, and a Smith & Wesson 1006 10mm semi-auto.

Others are free to disagree with any or all that I said. This is America..it's a free country.

[ March 11, 2011, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 11, 2011, 03:30 AM:
 
Tundra, thanks for the link. Mr. Reeve had quite a career.

Del, I sent you email.
 

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