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Tim, from some of my researching the.17, it seems like alot of people like these. what is it you don't like?? i see the b.c. is'nt real good

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Bucks: Like you mentioned the B.C. is'nt the greatest and they don't perform as well on coyotes as far as killing them goes.. The 25 gr. hornady was all I used back in the day on fox and a few coyotes. The 25 gr. is a well constructed bullet but the 30 gr. bullets work better on fox and coyotes, stays in side most times and puts them down with minmum damage..
Only reason I can think of why they sell so well is they are easey to come by at most sporting good stores along with the bergers but the weights and supply with the Bergers is limited...
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 09, 2011, 12:25 PM:
 
I do agree with Tim that the 30 grain bullets are great for coyotes for killing and minimum fur damage.Most of the Coyotes either have small seventeen hole and no exit or on occasion a dime sized exit hole.

I totally disagree about them being a good fox bullet, from my experience. Atleast in the larger(.17 remington)sized cases.

Now granted my 30 grain experience is limited to the Kindler golds.Other 30 grain bullets might be different,but I shot 4 red fox this year with my .17 Tactical with the 30's and on all of them I got .17 cal entrance holes and huge softball+ sized exits.They were 80-170 yard shots all died on the spot.

If I am specifically targeting the Reds I will take my .17 Ackley hornet loaded with the 21 grain Kindlers.Does a much better job on them.

I do love the 30 grain kindlers for coyotes though that high B.C bullet at around 3900fps really does a great job.

edit for LB: For day stands that is....

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2011, 12:48 PM:
 
Chad are you talking about red fox or grays????

The 30 golds is about all I use these days. Not many Reds around but do take about a hand full each season.. I keep my shots up front and the 30 seems to work well so far as I have not had a bad one yet..
If a guy was to target just red fox then I would recomend the Berger 20 gr. H.P. at this time till I get more kills under the 30 gr
. to say other wise....
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 09, 2011, 01:04 PM:
 
Yep Reds...I shot one frontal,and three broadside,with them.That's all I needed to see they are to much bullet at those speeds for Red fox.

Now the .17 Ackley Hornet shooting 20 and 21 grain bullets at around 3400-3500 fps seems to do a decent job on them, minimum fur damage and good killing power. Shot 9 others with this setup.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2011, 01:26 PM:
 
There never used to be reds in Nevada, when I first started hunting up there, hardly any grays either. Things change. I saw a red on the Navajo a while back, never used to be there, either? I have noticed a number of grays along the continental divide, around Austin, again, they never used to be there? I don't know why these animals are migrating, but it is definitely happening.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 09, 2011, 01:38 PM:
 
All the Reds I shot this year were in Utah,never shot one in Nevada, but I know there are a few around the marshes East of the Ruby's.

I've seen some Grays in the Southern part of Nevada though.But ya can't shoot them,same bullshit law as with the Bobcats.....

I've seen a few Kit fox down south too.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 09, 2011, 01:55 PM:
 
I killed a red with a 30 Gold a couple days ago. Almost cut it in half.

- DAA
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2011, 03:05 PM:
 
Yep. Had the same results with the 25 gr. if they where shot too far back or shot while bedded...
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 09, 2011, 04:49 PM:
 
WHAT IS IT WITH THE GOLDS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM HORNADY/BERGERS. ?????
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2011, 05:46 PM:
 
Don't ask me? I never actually owned a 17 but my partner did and we both used it from the truck when there was a close animal that we felt would be damaged more by more powerful cartridges. We always used the Hornady 25 and it seemed to be worthwhile but this is old information, a lot of these guys are more current, especially in regards the Kindler bullets which were not available when we were involved in the 70's fur boom.

Does it still have a few applications where a 22 centerfire may be too much gun? I guess so? But, in my opinion, the 17 with the 25 Hornady was never a solution for gray fox. The selling point is less damage on coyotes, if you hit them in a good spot. Otherwise, that combo can cause damage and runners. Maybe it doesn't happen anymore, but I saw a few in the 2/3 seasons we used a 17 MkiV, or was it a Javalina, but it was not a 17 Remington and I still saw a few cases of damage, usually because of an animal that was running, for instance.

They have probably solved all those negative things with the 17 Predator and the 30Kindler? Whatever? But, as the above testimony tells us, you need to be careful if you are shooting foxes and saving fur. Maybe something like a 17 Ackley Hornet is a solution? If not, it's a good place to start.

I apologize because I'm hardly an expert on this subject, but I do have a little experience even if it was a long time ago and since then, I don't bother hunting for fur.

Good hunting. LB

[ February 09, 2011, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on February 09, 2011, 07:12 PM:
 
The Golds are a long bullet with a better BC than the Hornadys. They are pretty accurate in my 17-223 AR rifle. I only shoot them when hunting in NM for predator pelts. In AZ I shoot coyotes with 65 grain 6MM and I don't need the money so I don't skin the stinking things. I do leave them along side the road for my buddy Robb.

[ February 09, 2011, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 09, 2011, 07:45 PM:
 
I would say that the biggest difference between the Kindler Golds and the Hornady/Bergers is B.C.....

Which equates to more energy, and better trajectory especially down range.

I think bullet construction in the Kindler Gold bullets is probably pretty close to the same as the Hornady's and Bergers.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2011, 08:08 PM:
 

quote:

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WHAT IS IT WITH THE GOLDS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM HORNADY/BERGERS. ?????

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