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Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on August 11, 2008, 10:24 PM:
 
There are a ton of new calibers available out there for AR's. What do you think is the best one for predators?
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on August 12, 2008, 02:08 PM:
 
For factory chambered AR's, I'd go with a 204 or 223. 223 would still be cheaper to shoot.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 12, 2008, 02:12 PM:
 
243 or 308 win.
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on August 12, 2008, 02:14 PM:
 
I'm currently playing with a .204 I'll let ya know if it works out. so far bolt guns are looking good.
Paul
 

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Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on August 12, 2008, 03:32 PM:
 
I just recently completed a 6 x 45 build which I will start using this fall. I am shooting 55 Nosler's through it. If I were going to ever build another it would be a toss up between a 17 Remington and a 6.5.

If I went with an AR-10 I think a 260 Remington would be fantastic.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on August 12, 2008, 04:30 PM:
 
I had pretty good luck with Sierra 60 HP's and I think H322 in my AR15 6x45. Noveske contoured it pretty light, simular to the M16A1 contour.

I hardly ever use it, I may have to dig it out and start shooting it again.
 

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Posted by MULE (Member # 63) on August 12, 2008, 09:12 PM:
 
I'm with TA

A AR in 243

But last I knew the only one was Armalite and they wanted more than I wanted to pay for one

I have a AR bushy in 5,56

A Cetme

A Armalite 180B

AK47

Those are defensive weapons to me. I have thousands of rounds. All FMJ

Give me a AR 15 platform in 243 or 22-250 with a 18 inch barrel and I'll try it for hunting
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 12, 2008, 09:19 PM:
 
Best AR platform for predators sounds like a contradiction in terms, if you want my opinion.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on August 12, 2008, 09:32 PM:
 
Thanks for your contribution, LB.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 13, 2008, 01:21 PM:
 
I have 5 AR's all in .223/5.56 they just seem to work for me.

My cousin has one in 204 and one in 17 Rem he's gonna play with but I'm not tempted.

Leonard, they may not be for everyone but they work for me. I use carbines though, can't stand heavy varmint type AR's.
 

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Posted by SURESHOT (Member # 1122) on August 13, 2008, 04:34 PM:
 
one of my ar15s is chambered in .243wssm I load my own since they only seem to factory load 50 or 95 grain bullets I prefer the 70grain nosler works great on lions.
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on August 13, 2008, 07:17 PM:
 
Took the .204 to the range this afternoon,
.75 " group at 100 yds with 32 gr v-max 28 gr. benchmark,best so far still havent been able to find the 35 gr. bergers at any place close.guess I'll end up at cabelas but thats damn near in Ca.
Maybe I'll keep it.
Paul
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 13, 2008, 09:51 PM:
 
Ditto what Leonard opined....maybe R Shaw could add some levity to this topic?
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 14, 2008, 12:59 PM:
 
In my opinion, they were designed to protect yourself and kill men in the process. Usefull when you bust in a door and clear a room.I would assume they would be really handy in a firefight. Slung in the front, they are always ready in these situations.

The ones I shot were not balanced and I felt awkward with it in my hands. I hunt with a few guys who use them and have seen several coyotes escape due to the bolt not being all the way forward? At least that is what I was told.

I blame BS for their popularity.

Randy

Randy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2008, 01:08 PM:
 
Yeah, Byron gets it from all sides. Probably jealousy?

Tell you the truth, every time I see a hunter with a black gun, I unconsciously do a little reevaluation. Can't help it. (sorry Cal)

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 14, 2008, 02:28 PM:
 
Well put Leonard, I view them with the same jaundiced eye I give the guys, that you can tell dressed "into" their camo, to make a run to Sportsman World or Cabelas....something ain't right with them.....in both instances.
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on August 14, 2008, 02:29 PM:
 
I think that so many have them for the cool factor, they look real neat,I had one before There was a BS. They are front heavy fun to shoot neat to look at , but as a hunting tool I keep thinking of my bolt guns as more comfortable definately more accurate just more familar to me in that situation.I would have to spend time deliberately trying to get used to one for regular use. But if a person enjoys one for hunting thats great I have no objections at all .
For me its gonna tke some getting used to.
-PM
 

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Posted by Scott F. (Member # 1961) on August 14, 2008, 02:47 PM:
 
Personally I don't spend 2 seconds worrying enough to make a negative comment about the weapon someone else choses to hunt with. That's their business, not mine.

I found the price of .223 ammunition and it's general good performance reasons to buy my to AR-15s in that caliber. I think my new Cavalry Arms AR is a fantastic coyote gun.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2008, 03:10 PM:
 
Scott, I promise not to reevaluate you for your honesty.

But, you know. Some people don't like certain words, such as yote, or song dog, etc. when refering to coyotes (as in Ky Yotes)

I like to think in terms of sporting arms, and prefer to call them rifles, shotguns and pistols, rather than weapons when used in a hunting context.

Soldiers have a use for a weapon, but I would rather not see sportsmen refer to their firearms as weapons. Semantics.

Good hunting. LB (no offense!)
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 14, 2008, 03:58 PM:
 
I agree, a rifle or shotgun is used to kill or end the life of a poor hungry defenseless little animal.
A weapon is used to defend yourself against the attack from a poor hungry defenseless little animal.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2008, 04:24 PM:
 
ah, nice spin. thx

edit: hey, how can you be in two places at once?

[ August 14, 2008, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 14, 2008, 04:44 PM:
 
I have 2 puters..I'm like sh1t, I'm everywhere.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 14, 2008, 06:09 PM:
 
No need to apologize to me Leonard. I never dreamt I'd like the AR like I do. The 223 isn't my cup of tea in any platform, but since I got my .204 it has killed alot of coyotes. I still shoot my bolt gun all summer. My AR is my winter time "truck gun" for the trap line and I used to take it to some contests as long as the partner was carrying a real gun.
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 14, 2008, 06:55 PM:
 
Up until just a few years ago, I never thought I'd ever use an AR. But once I got a chance to borrow my buddys Armalite .243, I was hooked. I don't mind the weight of them, even though I walk further in one day calling coyotes than some guys do in a winter. That Armalite only weighs 10.5#'s, my .204 D-Tech is only 1# lighter. With either of them sitting on shooting sticks, there is no "front heavy" feeling. They are as accurate as any of my bolts, and could be more accurate if a better trigger operator was handling them.
I've been with guys that forgot to load thier bolt guns, no different than failing to latch an AR. About the same out come.
The AR platform is not for everyone, but for me, I much prefer them over my bolt guns these days. I do like my .204 better than my buddys .243, probably only because I spent good money on mine, and................it's mine!
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 14, 2008, 07:12 PM:
 
When I am hunting with a stranger, I am doing a lot of evaluating. I'm looking at everything from what rifle he is carrying to how much gunk is under his fingernails. Helps me answer some questions.

Do I walk in front to the stand without his bullets in my pocket or do I trust the bolt isn't in battery, so it dont make no difference anyways?

Do I square-up on every coyote that shows or do I let the other guy do his job?

Do I hand him a knife to skin or do I just say screw-it and do it myself?

Call me old-school, but there is just something about carharts and a bolt gun that lets me breath a little easier.

Randy
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on August 14, 2008, 07:32 PM:
 
AR's I like em.......summertime coyotes don't like the 25WSSM Mr. Dan just built for me....




 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2008, 07:48 PM:
 
Kelley, we will rope off an area for you AR boys and snorers at the campout. It will be over yonder, out of range. lol

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on August 14, 2008, 08:11 PM:
 
No problem LB. I get along with most everyone.
Single shot, bolt action, auto loader, fox pro, manaska, open reed, closed reed, hot or cold beer......

PS last week while I was in NM. I went for stroll about 750 feet below the earth.......I think I found the truth meaning of life.


 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 14, 2008, 09:20 PM:
 
Shouldn't Tits come in pairs?

Where's the other one?
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on August 14, 2008, 09:24 PM:
 
Tim - have to talk to God about that....all I found was the one and a good one it was.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 14, 2008, 09:35 PM:
 
One of the things I like about an AR is the pistol grip. When the rifle sits on sticks, the pistol grip is easier to hold because of the angle. I even bought a new shotgun for turkey and coyote hunting because of this.

As I said they ain't for everyone. It ain't my job to convert the world, you have every right to base your opinion on your experiences.
 

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Posted by Pilgrim on Earth (Member # 314) on August 15, 2008, 06:02 AM:
 
You guys are hilarious. Seems like quite the commentary on human character that discussions like this take place in nearly every circle imaginable - "He's only a real Christian if he reads from the authorized King James Version." Funny stuff...yet pitiful.
 

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Posted by newbomb (Member # 888) on August 15, 2008, 04:25 PM:
 
Pilgrim? Your still alive! We gonna get together this winter?
 

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Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on August 15, 2008, 05:44 PM:
 
The guy that got me into calling has about 5 or 6 Ar's all in .223. I held one a S&W it was is a very nice weapon/rifle has a real nice look and feal to it. I got to burn 20 rounds with one of his AR's but not sure of the make,i was shooting off hand and was able to hit the target which is always good lol.He has build a few and it's funny the few times he can go with me always turns into a 8 or 12 hour sales pitch for me to buy one of his AR's. I guess i'm not an AR' man is all but to each his on. sorry for not being any help. I think a person should buy what ever his seven saw mill dollars will allow him to get.My weapon is bolt just alittle something my wife picked up for me down at the good will store.It shoots well fore some thing held to gether by tie wire and good luck lol. All though the 20x42ss scope on it is way to much scope for calling coyotes,it's what i have and use. I use the term weapon over rifle don't realy know why i guess i have more respect for a weapon. And to me my rig is a weapon. I used to toss words around like dogs yotes and yes i thought they were fun are cuting edge, untill i read the post about TT and his coyote school.And some one made a coment about only assholes make such statements.Sure i hate to be pc yet i hope to make a few friends on this site.
 

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Posted by ARshooter (Member # 3145) on September 02, 2008, 04:54 PM:
 
Lots of good replies on both sides of the isle.
Ofcoarse you already know which side I'm on as my screen name implies.
Americans have always used military arms for hunting, its no different now than it was when my dad came back from WWII and used an A3-03 to hunt with.
They (ARs) are popular with novice hunters all the way up to very experienced hunters. If you don't like what someone choses to use to hunt with, whether it be prarie dogs, coyotes or deer, then don't hunt with them. But don't chastise that individual for choosing a legal firearm as their choice to hunt a certain animal just because you don't like the looks of it. I think they call that a Zumboism.
I've been in situations on a hunt with someone that I don't know and I'm very cautious around that person regardless of what they are carrying. If I don't feel comfortable around them, its time to pack it in for the day and will probably be the last time I hunt with that person.
My opinion of the an ideal AR predator cartridge. The 17 Rem and 204 work very well as does the 223 and 6WOA. Most shots are under 200 yds and closer to 75-100 yds. here and the larger AR10 platform cartidges would be excessive to say the least. I would say the best all around would have to be the 223 but thats just my opinion.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 02, 2008, 05:12 PM:
 
ARshooter; Welcome aboard!!!
I'm one of the pagens around here who figure that at 75 to 100 yards my Mini-14 will work just fine.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 02, 2008, 06:19 PM:
 

quote:

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But don't chastise that individual for choosing a legal firearm as their choice to hunt a certain animal just because you don't like the looks of it.

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So, there must be a VALID reason?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 02, 2008, 06:30 PM:
 
Its not so much the looks of the AR but the guy carrying it that bothers me...

[ September 02, 2008, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 02, 2008, 06:42 PM:
 
Ar's may not be for everyone. I use both a bolt and an AR 15 with equal success. But then I'm amourousdextruss.

[ September 02, 2008, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 02, 2008, 10:13 PM:
 
I'm sure they have there place. But the one i had just did'nt fit for my area..
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on September 03, 2008, 03:19 PM:
 
amourousdextruss,

Damn that's a big word for a simple guy like me from MO. That's not going both ways with love, is it?
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on September 03, 2008, 03:23 PM:
 
The AR isn't exactly a new design. I think E. Stoner developed it back in the 1950's. What the heck, some people like 243's some 22-250's and some 17 Rems, I suppose Ford vs Chevy could be another debate.
 

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Posted by Cranky Farmer (Member # 3029) on September 03, 2008, 03:57 PM:
 
I really enjoy shooting my AR's but don't do a whole lot of hunting with them. Every once in awhile they get drug along on a stand or two. I own three, an older Colt model, a Stag and a RRA. Two of them are 223 and the other is a 6 x45.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 03, 2008, 04:20 PM:
 
Dan, try this...amourous dex truss, hell it still don't make since. It's a new demo`rat word, means vote for me sucker.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 03, 2008, 09:23 PM:
 
223, rounds are cheep, the 16'' gun is light , it's very accurate , easy to pack in and pack out , because of its size great truck gun or high rack gun , did I say its very accurate , just geta different upper and in a min, you go from calling gun to bench rest gun to gun large game gun to home protection gun, for the money it the best gun going. and did I say it accurate .
the most versatile gun going...
In my opinion its the best calling gun out there and it has nothing to do with it's looks.

edited to add , not being a reloading I can get the shells in just about every store I stop at.
I also find the 16'' shoulders fast and hold steady, fold up the stock and it lays right on the dash just fine

And me having bad arthritis in my joints the small light gun helps

[ September 03, 2008, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on September 04, 2008, 04:36 PM:
 
"And me having bad arthritis in my joints the small light gun helps"

Light, yes, but is it accurate?
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 05:42 AM:
 
Very!

Only ever shoot paper at 100 YD , I will put my 16'' with factory ammo up there with any bolt.
The true question is, what is accurate for a calling gun ?? my 16'' will shoot 1'' all day.with me behind it.
I am no Norman Hathcock ether,
I am the farthest thing from a SHOOTER .
Also remember the game of calling critters into there death is a close up game and the AR was made for just that..the only thing I have ever tweaked was the trigger.
It's light,very accurate, and very versatile And more then enough for killing coyotes
I myself, at this time trying to get my small rifle permit to put a 10'' upper on mine,
I think the 10'' upper with collapsible stock would make the best calling gun for me

[ September 05, 2008, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 05, 2008, 06:31 AM:
 

quote:

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I will put my 16'' with factory ammo up there with any bolt.

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quote:

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I am no Norman Hathcock ether

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quote:

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looses confidence in his shooting

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,,, no confidence lost pal,, just a simple bow hunter that shoots coyotes with simple gun . I will gladly put my sufficiently killing skills to the test at the camp out

[ September 05, 2008, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 05, 2008, 08:45 AM:
 
Wow, such goings on.
Hey George, would you like to borrow a hot AR 15 for your pending money exchanging, friendly competition?
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on September 05, 2008, 09:20 AM:
 
Oh! crap now Im going to have to fix up the shooting bench.
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 05, 2008, 09:20 AM:
 
Actually George, cash works better for me.

I repeat. In big country, not all coyotes will approach to 100 yards or less. Depends on their conditioning.Sometimes it is best to not make a sound and take the shot. Cause the first peep out of your mouth and you are pinned.

What about multiples? You kill one coyote at 63 yards and the other retreats to 300,stops, and turns broadside.Do you just let him stand there? Maybe this is where the high-capacity mags come into play? You can just walk your bullets into the coyote and hope his oh-shit meter is broken. LOL

Randy
 

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Posted by Clint (Member # 346) on September 05, 2008, 09:36 AM:
 
A little competition sounds like fun, maybe we should get something going for everyone.
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on September 05, 2008, 09:40 AM:
 
Im in Clint I,ll use your .221 fireball thatll do
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 09:54 AM:
 
Mr Shaw
Well I am bringing a 700 dollar AR with just a new trigger,,

Some one bring a decoy coyote and I will ventilate it, you can start it out at 100 , and move to what ever you wish to for the 2 shot, and like I said I will ventilated ...
I ant a gun shooter, but my gun will kill anything your long barreled bolts will.
you may shoot a tighter group on paper , but paper don't bleed, so yes I am in on any shoot you like to have to prove you gun is better for calling and killing coyotes ...

I will be bringing my calling gun my every day beater that's killed lots of predators ,,, try and at least show up with a gun that has been in the field one or twice,,, I seen when some guys start talking calling guns and how when it move in a shoot to prove there guns capabilities for killing coyotes they show up to the shoot with 14lb 24 powered coyote guns and sand bags

eddied to add ,,
bring what you like ,,,,, just be prepared to show me it kills coyotes better then mine

[ September 05, 2008, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 10:11 AM:
 
Sorry Dan I just seen your post, Thank for the offer pal
but if we are having a tack driving contest then yes I would like to barrow one from yea
but this contest is to see if his bolt gun is more proficient in killing coyotes then my AR
I don't need to shoot clover leaf holes in paper, just kill shots. because that's what they are talking about right??
THE BEST GUN FOR WALKING & CALLING & KILLING COYOTES
I am glad you going i like to talk to yea about my next calling gun

[ September 05, 2008, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 05, 2008, 10:17 AM:
 
Let us begin a discusion on what sort of accuracy is needed in a coyote rifle, and how important that 2nd, third and 20th shot is from an autoloader.

Personally, I see no flaws in Shaw's arguement; there is always the possibility of a second, third or fourth animal pausing well beyond that comfort zone of 100 yards. Now what do you do?

Is an 8"X8" target realistic? I always figured I needed to hit inside 2.75 inches between the eyes, at 400 yards.

It's apparent that fine accuracy means different things to different people.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 10:29 AM:
 
we can have life size target at 100 yards 1 also at 200 or what ever you guys like ,( I don't care)
and 1 moving target at 35 yards

Shooter must be sitting on the ground or stool with shooting stick, just like calling..

And remember it about killing coyotes not sub M,O,A groups..

I will put up any amount of cash you like,,,,,,

but would also like to see all the money go to one of us who may need it at this time ,,
Also sine LB its your sight you pick the person to get the moneys
there friends out there that are going though harder times then we, and may just need alittle help

quote:

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It's apparent that fine accuracy means different things to different people.

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I have fine accuracy

[ September 05, 2008, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 05, 2008, 11:15 AM:
 
How about if everybody agrees on the rules, first, rather than a spray and pray format?

And, PS how are you going to rig up a 35 yard running shot, any ideas; and can I use my shotgun?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on September 05, 2008, 11:25 AM:
 
I think a 6"x6" target for a clean kill is closer to accurate. Shoot the bottom two inches on a broadside shot and you are just splitting a big hole in them and setting them to spinning or running. I want to shoot a gun that groups as small as possible. That gives me more room for human error.

I hate the comment that you always hear, "the gun will outshoot me." Well, if I do my part and shoot a perfect shot, and repeat that 4 times, I want a sub moa group, hopefully 1/2 moa or better. If I am getting 1"-2" group that will kill something out to 200-300 yards if everything is perfect, but that is seldom the case from a calling stand.

I think AR's have their place, and have come a long ways in the accuracy department. I do like the balance and simplicity of my bolt rifle though, and I don't have to clean it as often.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 11:26 AM:
 
shot gun ,, yes if you out to prove its a better calling gun then my AR.
Them long shots may be little tricky

well we use a tire and a balloon at 50 yards rolling down a hill,,,

I am not shore I under stand this

quote:

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How about if everybody agrees on the rules, first, rather than a spray and pray format?

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quote:

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... it's very accurate.... did I say its very accurate ,..... for the money it the best gun going. and did I say it accurate ......

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quote:

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... I will put my 16'' with factory ammo up there with any bolt.

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quote:

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..if I can shoot 1'' at a hundred what more is needed in a calling gun???

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I agree totally with RShaw. Accuracy is like horsepower....better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

P.S. Oh yeah Mr. Shaw, why don't you follow George (what ever his middle name is) Ackleys' advice, and get yourself a Minaska?

Maintain
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 05, 2008, 12:15 PM:
 
I like the tire and the inflatable toy rubber bag. That would be as good as it gets, to demonstrate the merits of the AR over the bolt. It would also prove to be a hard to hit target.

A hunter can shoot at the animal as long as he can see it. What a great idea, George. That will be right interesting if the tire is rolled as fast as a coyote is usually running.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 12:29 PM:
 
it all depends on the hill

last year i bent my scope at globe or should i say on the way to globe.

well a pip vice and some muscle it back on my gun and ready for action;)

crossj, 1'' is good for a guy that dont shoot guns that much.and 1'' at 100 is all thats needed in real life coyote hunting pal

how about this one,
I have a race car but dont drive it to the grocery store

[ September 05, 2008, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 05, 2008, 03:36 PM:
 
Randy and I competed in a contest not long ago where they had a moveing coyote target set up at 100 yds. rather than 30 yds..
O'L dead-eye Randy smoked it both times with his bolt action.
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 05, 2008, 04:36 PM:
 

quote:

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at least show up with a gun that has been in the field one or twice

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quote:

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Shooter must be sitting on the ground or stool with shooting stick, just like calling..

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quote:

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bring what you like ,,,,, just be prepared to show me it kills coyotes better then mine

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quote:

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For goodness sakes George. You are shooting a 223. For daylight coyotes,

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quote:

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I make a lot of stands prone.

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YEA DO!
I thought you hunted flat open area where you can shoot 2,3 hundred yards
you do this prone???
not many bushes I am guessing , help me out pal how do yea see anything with your eye 15'' off the ground or are you only calling hill sides

Randy you can shoot anyway you like buddyboy , I will shoot my calling gun off my stool with my home made 3 dollar shooting sticks..

quote:

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marginal cartridge beyond 200 yards

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yes thats why i call them close

you can make the yardage rules lets just have fun,

I am all about, any where, any time, and at any range,

PEACE

[ September 05, 2008, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 05, 2008, 05:19 PM:
 
George, from your last post I can see you pretty much don't have a clue.

Randy
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 05:30 PM:
 
I been doing this for about a year now,
and spend alot of time over at PM

so i have a clue

see you on the range
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on September 05, 2008, 05:45 PM:
 

quote:

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how about this one,
I have a race car but dont drive it to the grocery store

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Race car huh! Baased on your idea of accuracy, could it possibly be a Gremlin with mag wheels and a glass pack?

Maintain
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 05:47 PM:
 
Yea crossj thats it you got
my idea of accuracy has to do with a calling gun.

Randy was it the thing about maneuvering in a high rack that got yea????

because I can explain

[ September 05, 2008, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on September 05, 2008, 05:56 PM:
 
I don't care much about what you are shooting, but I am interested in the how often, what circumstances, and why's you would choose to make a stand laying down? Peeking over a rise? A non-calling stand? Lack of cover? Anticipating long shots?

I am just interested because it is a position I would not normally choose to set up in.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 05, 2008, 06:19 PM:
 
Its the best position to be in when calling big country coyotes.
You blend into the ground better, almost like youre not there at all. Its also the best shooting position for long or med. range shots..
You get into an area where the coyotes are a little educated (conditioned) you don't leave anything to chance and prone is the best position to hide in and with a bi-pod and butt stock rest you are ready for any distance the coyote chooses to stand at...
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 06:27 PM:
 
17rem,
You must be doing this from a elevated position right???

Randy
Is it that I don't have a clue because what I said about the high rack?? well let me clue you in, I also call nights down in predator hunters paradise, and been hunting and calling off high rack for a really long time. I don't use a high chair on a swivel most my hunter are new and I need to be right behind them working the light and helping them through the set, in a high rack a long gun can get tricky trying to move from left to right and front to back with eye's working in on yea.remember i am in a rack not a chair that swivles 360 i need to move my hunter around sometimes. All my truck guns are AR's or cut down bolts , and most of my critters are killed under 40 yard at night.

Randy, when you said this, ((You are shooting a 223. For daylight ))) why would you say I use it for daylight hunting? what made you think that would be the case? is it you trying to say at night sub M,O,A are needed??

then you said
((very iffy after dark at almost any range)), most my cats are killed with head shots or neck shot at night from 30 yard to 40 yard,

For goodness sakes randy your saying a 223 isn't good after dark at almost any range???

maybe I don't have a clue

[ September 06, 2008, 05:29 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 05, 2008, 06:40 PM:
 
Yes George. Any piece of ground that is high enough to give you a view of an area like a stock tank berm or hill...
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 05, 2008, 06:42 PM:
 
I hear yea then,
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 05, 2008, 11:23 PM:
 
After dark, shooting from a rig, I think you need at least a 22-250. But, then again, I'm not a fur hunter, and if they want to use marginal chamberings such as 17 Rem or 223, you are limited on range and probably will lose a few?

I'm not kidding, George. I can't figure out what the hell you are doing? It does not relate to any type of predator hunting that I am familiar with? 'splain me?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 06, 2008, 05:20 AM:
 

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I can't figure out what the hell you are doing? It does not relate to any type of predator hunting that I am familiar with? 'splain me?

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Randy
Is it that I don't have a clue because what I said about the high rack?? well let me clue you in, I also call nights down in predator hunters paradise, and been hunting and calling off high rack for a really long time. I don't use a high chair on a swivel most my hunter are new and I need to be right behind them working the light and helping them through the set, in a high rack a long gun can get tricky trying to move from left to right and front to back with eye's working in on yea.remember i am in a rack not a chair that swivles 360 i need to move my hunter around sometimes. All my truck guns are AR's or cut down bolts , and most of my critters are killed under 40 yard at night.

Randy, when you said this, ((You are shooting a 223. For daylight ))) why would you say I use it for daylight hunting? what made you think that would be the case? is it you trying to say at night sub M,O,A are needed??

then you said
((very iffy after dark at almost any range)), most my cats are killed with head shots or neck shot at night from 30 yard to 40 yard,

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However, first impressions are hard to shake.

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first inpressions??? we have never met...

so you will not have to shake anything pal

and since i am not a big camo guy it wont be ripped up
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 06, 2008, 10:56 AM:
 
LOOK PAL. (this is part of the problem)

My "first impression" comment was in reference to R.Shaw, not George Ackley. You need not remind me that we have not met. I'm not that friggin' old.

Good hunting. LB

[ September 06, 2008, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 06, 2008, 11:16 AM:
 
I looked at it, and took it, the wrong way,

I am done trying to explain myself

Good hunting

[ September 06, 2008, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 06, 2008, 11:42 AM:
 
I will still reserve judgement, if (indeed) judgement needs to be rendered?

But, you are correct, from my perspective. Your attempts at clarity are not as effective as they could be.

Good hunting (your PAL)
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on September 06, 2008, 12:43 PM:
 

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then the anti AR guy answered with post telling us we only use them for the cool factor

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Thats why I had mine built,,,,then i realized Im cool anyway. Now I shoot an ICON and I would hold it against any AR Ive shot. Somthing just dont click right when I use an AR, maybe Im just a bad shot. Rich seen me shoot alot and did nothing but miss or shoot the tail off of one, but yet Tyler and several others have seen me make some pretty decent shots and killed. I remember I was hunting a contest in OK with some guys (and I wont say who because it is irrelivant)and I made a 187 yrd shot off of sticks and a HS turkey seat, first thing I heard hunter A say to hunter B was," He couldnt of done that with his AR" Me being hunter C never argued diffrent. This pertaining to the lightweight AR custom gun I had built, I think people say they do most of there kiling close because,,,,,,,,,,They've missed everything else....Ive been there and I aint lyin!

edit: VERY VERY ACCURATE FOR A 1" gun. Not enough for far shots and this elliminates it for a calling gun, if your serious i guess.

[ September 06, 2008, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: stevecriner ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on September 06, 2008, 01:56 PM:
 
Last time I checked zero on my 223 topped with a 3X9 Leupold it shot the 69gr SMK pretty well. Shot a .230 three shot group. While working up this load it shot several five shot groups in the 4’s.

I for sure am not a bench rest guy, but am able to kill most of the coyotes I pull the trigger on every year.

The 50gr Vmax doesn’t seem to group as well, but I wouldn’t be afraid to hunt with it.

Got some of the 52gr Amax loaded, might go shoot some after OU finishes playing.

Kelly


 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 06, 2008, 02:50 PM:
 
Kelly, that group is near benchrest class. I didn't know? I need to get me one!

Hello, Dan? Change my order, please.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on September 06, 2008, 03:01 PM:
 
Can AR's be very accurate? Yes.
Can they make good close range coyote guns? Yes.
Can they make good long range coyote guns? Yes.
Are they for everybody? Evidently not but who cares.

One of my cousins AR's is in 223WSSM, it wears a 6.5-20 Leupold scope, betters any 22-250 velocity and probably the 220 swift but I ain't never chronographed one to see what they actually do. He is the long range shot in the family and has taken a few coyotes further than the 300 yard mark with this rig. But to me it's a dead stick, heavy, unbalanced and just plain cumbersome to tote around. He also tends to make the close shots just the same so maybe it ain't the gun but more the shooter.


All I know is I like light handy guns and a 16" carbine suits my shooting style just fine. I'm one of those who likes to call them in close. Here's a group from my favorite calling gun, a Colt chrome lined light weight barrel, for my needs it kills just as dead as a 1/4" gun.

Here's some of my other 2 AR's



So they can be accurate and chambered in "lethal calibers" but they still ain't gonna fit everyone, no big deal. Is there really any one gun that will do it all?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 06, 2008, 04:43 PM:
 
Change your order to what?
Did these 3 shot groups scare you? You rifle when done, will shoot 5 groups of 5 shots, for an 25 round aggregate of less than 1/2" on one sheet of target paper. It should shot some screamers of 3 shots in the high 1's now and then. So, what's the problem, Leonard?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 06, 2008, 06:39 PM:
 
Oh, okay.

I was just looking at all those proud groups and suddenly began to think that WOW! An AR is just what I need; fast, accurate, and cool. And, did I mention accurate?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on September 06, 2008, 07:21 PM:
 
Well Hell Dan.........build LB a 6WOA
you only live once....

[ September 06, 2008, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 06, 2008, 08:09 PM:
 
Actually, I'm building him a match grade 243AI. You'd think at his age he would want to slow down a bit. But he wants to go fast.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 06, 2008, 08:30 PM:
 
Tim, look out!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 06, 2008, 09:26 PM:
 

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Tim, look out!

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You'll be the coolist kid on the block with the 243 ackley AR..
I hope you can keep up..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 07, 2008, 12:27 AM:
 
AR? You still don't pick up on things too quick, Tim.

edit: OTHER Tim. This will be a 1000 yard rig.

[ September 07, 2008, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 07, 2008, 07:30 AM:
 
For coyotes, I think my .257 Roberts improved is mighty hard to beat. I built it on an old Spanish Mauser action. I wouldn't want to use it on bobcats though.

 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 07, 2008, 09:57 AM:
 
Ok! I got it.. So lets dance..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/IMG_1868.jpg[/IMG]]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/IMG_1870.jpg[/IMG]]

I said i don't have much use for one ! Did'nt say i don't know how to use one... : Quiggly
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 07, 2008, 10:30 AM:
 
That looks like a Springfield? New one on me.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on September 07, 2008, 10:38 AM:
 
Just for fun after I sighted in the 52gr Amax loads in the 223 and checked zero on the 204 and 25WSSM uppers, I thought it would be fun to shoot a shot from each upper and see what kind of group I could get.
Turned out way better than I thought as the 52gr Amax didn’t group that well when sighting in.
I know it was luck and I probably can’t do it again, but it adds to the COOL factor for sure.

Here is a pic of my high dollar shooting setup.
Folding picnic table form Wallyworld and two 50 cent sand bags from Lowes.



Close up of the target



edit to say - got to love that duct tape cigar holder...

[ September 07, 2008, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 07, 2008, 11:14 AM:
 
Good eye Leonard. Yep its a 1903-A3 springfield.
I picked the gun up at a gun show many years ago for 225.00.. Its not a Remmy but it sure shoots..

Kelly good group with the 52 gr. A-max's.. Set up some targets a little farther out and compare them to the other bullets you have used.. I'm pretty sure the A-maxs will do the best farther out..
I use them in my Ackley and they group really well at 4-700 yds..
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on September 07, 2008, 11:30 AM:
 
Tim – I got to work on the 52gr Amax. I shot five 5 shot groups and never got it under a ¾” group.
The pic above is where I fired one shot from the 233 upper with a 52gr Amax.
Pushed two pins to changed uppers and fired one shot from the 204 upper with a 35gr Berger.
Changed uppers again and fired one shot from the 25WSSM with a 85gr NBT

I will try the Amax on out to 300 before long.

[ September 07, 2008, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 07, 2008, 12:00 PM:
 
I just modified the 17 ca. forum for all you AR folks to discuss your favorite "upper".
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on September 07, 2008, 12:43 PM:
 
Hehehheehe...
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 07, 2008, 12:51 PM:
 
You might have more response if the membership was allowed to post in it.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on September 07, 2008, 01:36 PM:
 
Here is a hundred yard group from my 22-250 Ackley Dan built me. Man it is a shooter. I traded it for a Kimber ultra carry II .45 the other night and some boot. Ill bring my kimber and a box of shells so Vic can have a shootin fit at the campout. I brought a ruger 44 I had last year and Vic was bouncing pop cans with it so Im sure he will like this one.

3 shots 100yrds

 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on September 07, 2008, 04:05 PM:
 
Kelly, I am having a hard time following the significance of the three shots. It would appear to me you are shooting three different rifles; all sighted in 1" high at 100 yds. You have three different scopes sitting on top of three different bores. All you have done is swapped out the trigger assembly. I have three different bolt guns that would produce the same group.

Just an observasion.

Maintain
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on September 07, 2008, 04:51 PM:
 
You are right G. I guess if there is a point it would be that AR's can shoot and not everyone that shoots them are spray and pray types.

Like I said I just wanted to see how a 3 shot gorup from three different bores would be. Never done it before - with a bolt or an AR.
It turned out pretty good and I thought it was interesting.
Catch you later
Kelly
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 07, 2008, 06:53 PM:
 
anyone make up the rules yet

I am heading you way in about three week and need to know what to expect
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 07, 2008, 07:13 PM:
 
George,

You can expect more fun than the law should allow. Lots of great company, you will love it!
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 07, 2008, 07:44 PM:
 
I hear yea pal ,,
truthfully,, I am really all about fun.. that's why I am going to have fun ,no matter what it looks like on here
I am coming for a good time. meet and leave with a lot new friends
 

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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on September 08, 2008, 09:09 AM:
 
Sorry about jumping on this thread so late, but I usually just go straight to the political forums being the season of politics. To answer Cranky Farmers question, I believe an ar10 in 243 would be the best caliber for predators. It is a little overkill for coyotes especially if you wish to save the pelts. However, it would quickly dispatch coyotes even with marginal shots that an AR15 would let run away wounded. It also would be nice to have this caliber if one was to ever call in a cougar.

I recently bought an Armalite AR10 in 308. My logic to go with Armalite over DPMS was the magazine issue. Armalite's can use M1A magazines with a minor modification that one could do themselves. From my understanding the DPMS magazine is proprietary. If Remington had announced the R25, I would have probably gone with that platform because they are offering 243 as a standard caliber.

Unlike most AR15s, the issue with the AR10s is there is no milspec standard for them. What this means is that you cannot put a DPMS upper on an Armalite lower and visa versa.

AR10s are expensive. If Cranky Farmer's question is limited to the AR15s, I would go with the ole venerable .223. Bullets are cheap, and this round has ample killing power well beyond 200 yards for coyotes provided the shooter does he job and places the shot in the boiler room. If I was going to go to another caliber, I would go with the Ackley improved.

To jump on the issue about the viability of ARs, I love em. I use to be a traditional gun type of person. I strictly use bolt guns for deer, elk and antelope. For coyote hunting I wanted something that could provide a quick second shot. I use to use a HK 630 which is a semi automatic sporting model that HK made about 20 years ago. It worked well enough, but they have become quit valuable over there original asking price. Being that parts are becoming limited, I've decided to retire that gun to the status of a non shooter. I'll save it and sell it when I need to buy my next pickup truck.

I decided to go to the black gun for several reasons. First there is a milspec standard for the ar15 which will mean this gun can be maintained for the next two centuries. Repair parts area plentiful. Second, a friend of mine documented his kills which were numerous. He found the average shot distance was 85 yards. The AR is more than accurate for that range and much more. It also is good in thicker cover situations that would normally be best handled with a shotgun. I'm not saying I never use a shot gun. What I'm saying is if the stand is questionable about the density of cover, I'll grab the AR.

When you get those rare stands that call in two or more coyotes at a time, the Ar is the best thing since sliced bread. It is like shooting at four legged quail.

With the above said, I feel one needs to consider there hunting situations:

If you hunt in the wide open grass lands, a bolt gun is probably the way to go.

If you are not allowed to have a loaded weapon in your car, I probably wouldn't have an AR. I don't like racking the action at the stand. In Az we can rackem and leave the gun hot all day long while driving from stand to stand. Many states don't permit this. Also, the people you hunt with become very important when doing this. You and your partners must be VERY MUZZLE CONSIOUS. I had to twice cross a border patrol check point this last weekend down by Tombstone. I was down there doing a little calling(five stands in two days), and a bunch of scouting for my deer hunt coming up in two months. I crossed both times with a loaded ar in the cab with me. Never had any problems, and I did keep my hands in view. Saw only one coyote about five hundred yards out.
 

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Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on September 08, 2008, 05:15 PM:
 
Ok, if the contestants can consistently hit a stationary coyote sized target at 40 yards at the camp out then we need a tiebreaker right? LOL George and his partner Vs. Randy and his. At the end of the season we will see who kills the most predators.

Sounds fair to me? LOL

Good hunting.

Q,
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 08, 2008, 06:50 PM:
 
Yea,,what ever, if that's what yea need Q,,,lol

Edited to add ,,

oh i see, you must be his partner,

[ September 08, 2008, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 08, 2008, 07:07 PM:
 

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When you get those rare stands that call in two or more coyotes at a time, the Ar is the best thing since sliced bread. It is like shooting at four legged quail.

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I normaly call alone and that is the very reason i bought my AR. for multiable coyotes.. My AR was chambered in the 223 cartridge and through trial and error i found that the 223 was'nt good enough for more than one coyote comeing in or takeing a second shot after a miss. The bullet is to slow and drops to fast compared to the bolt guns i use.. I found that with a little more practice i could connect on doubles and even get the coyote after i missed on the first shot..
My AR is gone now and i don't miss it at all...
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on September 08, 2008, 07:34 PM:
 
Dang TA, did you put any powder in those cases or were you just using the primer to send the bullet out the tube?

I'm not a good long range shot, in fact this was one of my longest shots about 250 yards. I was back in the trees across the fence. While not an AR it was a 223, maybe I'm just lucky? I do miss that Sako FWIW.

 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on September 08, 2008, 08:23 PM:
 

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Although I like my AR's I have a feeling Randy knows how to use his sniper gun way out there and up close.

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This was said in the beer money thread..... this is the point...Why limit yourself with a short barreled Unlikely to hit it anything way out gun when you could have one that does both. I would hate to limit myself.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 08, 2008, 09:09 PM:
 
,

You ask,why?
The one reason for me is because of my disease, I have a hard time handling a full size rifle,
when I was going though bad time with my hand and joints I was given my first 16'' AR by a friend and call maker that was seeing the hard time I was having getting around. once I got the AR it was now a new world for me because how easy it was to carry , handle and shoot. Me not having to work the bolt was half the battle.. I been around the calling game for awhile before I got sick. with a AR I feel I kill as many critters as I ever did with my bolts.

No maybe I don't throw lead 300 and 400 yards but again its about the calling to me, I rather try and work them close and not kill them then shoot at them 300 yards.

I under stand some of you have live stock and predation concern's ,, witch is cool,,, kill them however you need to .. I like seeing dead coyote piled up as much as the next guy..
But where I do most of my hunting I don't have them concern's,At the end of each calling day, I don't need to kill anything,,,,
that's one reason why I don't use a electronic call,, if I don't have to, its all about calling them close before I will bust a primer ...I never said the AR platform is more accurate then a bolt,

I just said that they are accurate, and more then enough efficient for killing coyotes , and because they are light and fast on the secant shot i think they are the perfect calling gun..

the bottom line I guess was that the guy who stated the thread ask a question,, and the then the guys started in with there thought that we (us ar users ) only use them because they are cool looking gun..

I will be there with my 16'' AR looking to be shown how much more a bolt is better in killing coyote at a reasonable distance... I know everyone is out for a good time , And i ant taken any of this to hart, I am also just out to have a good time like the rest of yea

[ September 08, 2008, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on September 08, 2008, 09:32 PM:
 
It's not the gun that limits me...

I've had my share of heavy barreled rifles and for the missed opportunities that I've had with my light weight pea shooters, it just doesn't make sense to carry the extra weight and burn more powder so I can shoot a coyote at 50 yards.

Let me clarify a little, 2 of my AR's weigh 9 pounds, that's not light weight by any means and I can carry more weight than most. I just prefer light rifles, AR's or bolt guns. Even my bigfoot gun is a Sako Finnlite in 300 WSM, it weighs 8.3 pounds.

I will likely aquire another long range critter squasher and ya'll can say I told you so. A buddy of mine has been banging steel at 1000 yards and it sounds fun. I'm even playing with 77 grain bullets and turrets.

But for my calling entertainment, I prefer to use a light weight AR-15. I tend to get a little further from the truck than some. The Antlers contest you and Randy were in, I missed check in because we were about 4 miles from the truck and only had 1 coyote and a cat. I would've liked to have met both of you (although I didn't know you were there until later) we decided to hunt till dark or until we reached the property line, despite the high wind, rain and snow flurries. Hunting is something I enjoy, I don't make a living as a fur hunter (I'd starve to death) and have never felt undergunned with a .223 be it in an AR or bolt gun. Just my choice.

Besides picking the "best" for someone else, rarely ever works out.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on September 09, 2008, 03:50 PM:
 
George, Im sorry I didnt realize the disease. With all the predator talk,night hunting and highracks I didnt realize you had one,Im sorry friend.
"unknown"
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 09, 2008, 04:23 PM:
 
I went from using my Remington varmint special to my Winchester feather to the AR .
Steve,
when you ask why limit yourself
I was just saying what made me pick up the AR is all.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on September 09, 2008, 05:36 PM:
 
Okey DOkey.
 

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Posted by Pilgrim on Earth (Member # 314) on October 03, 2008, 05:16 AM:
 
(I thought maybe this fit here instead of hijacking two-tails' thread about Les).

Even though I don't give half-a-hoot about who thinks what about such-n-such a rifle...I must admit that of the AR15 discussions/comments, the entertainment quotient alone elevates its worth to me.

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In the case of a guy wanting to weild one of those black plastic bullet delivery systems or an auto blunderbuss, I for sure don't want them sitting anywhere near me, hot brass or hulls flying in or near my face pisses me off!

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PS we may have to rope off a section for the machine gun crowd,

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