This is topic Win 760 and H414 the same? in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on July 04, 2008, 09:55 PM:
I don't believe it was always this way, but with corporate mergers taking place daily and Winchester shuting down US operations, it was probably inevitable that someone like Hodgdon would take the Winchester product line and incorporate it into their very own products and market the same thing under different names. The reason I'm saying this is I just noticed on Hodgdon's Reloading site that they list the same exact information for H414 and Win 760. The same starting load, the same max load, the same velocities, and the same pressures. I checked three different loadings under 243, 308, 2506 and 3006 before coming to this conclusion. While not the most complete reference work I've done, It sure looks fishy. I'm posting this on several of my favorite forums so as to get the word out that you need to look at what you have on your bench already before investing into a powder that you probably already have. Also, I have some 760 and H414 that is probably 10 years old. I wouldn't assume it is the same stuff that is made today. I also checked to see if any powders seemed to clone 748 and I couldn't find any.
Here is the link so you can check this out four yourself:
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 04, 2008, 10:00 PM:
760 and 414 have the same burn rate, but are not the same powders...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 05, 2008, 09:54 AM:
Until Hodgdons says specifically that W760 and H414 are identical and data is interchangable, I would be especially careful about suggesting that on message boards, email word of mouth or any other method?
edit: You have to understand that even W760 is not identical to W760, and H414 is not identical to H414. Every lot has the potential to have ever so slightly different charecteristics, and the cautious handloader will back off a bit a work up his load with every pound of powder he buys....which has always been my reason for buying 5 and 8 pound kegs if I intend to use a lot of it.
And by the way, H414 is one of my all time favorite powders, right up there with H4831. It is useful in many different cartridges and bullet weights, and although I have used W760 for many years, it was mostly in 25'06, but not any longer since I began using R22 which gives me much higher velocities.
Good hunting. LB
[ July 05, 2008, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on July 05, 2008, 09:41 PM:
In my Lyman 47th edition reloading manual, it shows different charge weights, pressures, and velocities for these two powders. My 45th edition doesn't show H414 at all. What I'm saying is today on Hodgdon's online reloading database which I give the link for above, it gives the same starting load charge weight, the same max load charge weight, the same velocities, and the same pressures for these two powders. With this current documentation straight from the manufacturer, the load data is exactly the same. I didn't check every caliber and weight bullet, but I did check three different bullet weights for the four above listed calibers. I do suggest that everyone should check for themselves what the current data says before trying any new loads. Especially if you like your eyes.
What I am suggesting is if you aren't happy with one of these powders, I wouldn't try the other one because they are too similar if not exactly the same.
It makes me wonder what I should do with some of my older stocks of powder that I haven't used recently if the manufacturer is going to play with them like this. I too buy 8lbs kegs when I have a combo I like.
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