This is topic 308 Varmint Loads? in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on December 04, 2007, 01:02 AM:
Anyone got any advice on what might work well in my new .308?
Barnes makes a new 100 gr flat nose in .30 cal, but I wonder if that's too tough, and not frangible enough for coyotes/'cats?
It's hard to choose a bullet, when you have as much of a chance at a 400 pound black bear, as you do a 14 pound bobcat.
Krusty 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 04, 2007, 07:35 AM:
Well, as far as bullet selection, I think you can go too light? I have had most success in 308 Win. with the 125 grain Sierra Spitzer and the 150 gr. Remington Bronze pt. as a dual purpose brush busting predator to deer, etc. etc.
Powder? Must be at least twenty suitable? just pick one that fills the case at least 90% and gives best accuracy and velocity.
Primers are a personal choice, like Ford or Chevy, for the most part. I use mostly Federal primers, except in a couple specific situations. For me, it really simplifies the process.
Good luck, LB
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 04, 2007, 01:20 PM:
Do they still make those Accelerator sabot rounds?? Mayhap carry seperate loads for varmints & bears. Othewise, use bear loads for everything unless you would like to track a bear wounded with a coyote round in the dense ferns & salal.
Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on December 04, 2007, 06:53 PM:
I think I'd look at setting up a good 150 grain round, deer/anything else.
Then try others, I think a good 150 grain 'deer' load would work really well for coyotes, punch through not open up 'too' much. That would give you a good 'working' load for your rifle, something you could always go back to, then you can start expermenting with light bullets or what ever.
Carl
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on December 06, 2007, 11:46 PM:
Thanks for the advice. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Leonard,
I like the idea of the bronze points, and hadn't considered them in the mix.
Jim advised me to use a military type primer, the pin hits 'em pretty hard.
Red said I needed some primer with a number, so I told him to put it on my tab.
Kokopelli,
Your question sent me in search of answers.
They, Remington, still make the Accelerator, but only in 30/30 and 30-06 (as per their ammo FAQs page, today).
Several companies make sabots, and EABCO ***** a starter kit for reloading.
Accuracy depends on consistency, and many reloaders who first experiment with sabots walk away from the idea without figuring it out.
Bullet seating in the sabot, and seating that combination into the case, consistently (without damaging the base), seems to be the key.
They make a bullet seating device and a sabot holder that takes the place of the shell holder on your press. But a 224 bullet seater can be substituted, in 30 caliber dies of the same brand, and will work better.
We already have RCBS dies in 308 and 222.
The thing that I have trouble with still, is twist... if I am going to shove the 224 projectile of my choice into a sabot, shouldn't I choose one that is better suited to my rate of twist? (1:10)
Instead of Remington's choice of a 55 grain roundnose, grooved to increase it's length, wouldn't one of the heavy for caliber 224's better suit my needs?
Carl,
Well I sure meant to find out if a deer bullet would work on a coyote, but one refused to catch one of the last two 165gr Swift A-Frames I had.
My thinking was along the same lines, good 'nuff fer deer, good 'nuff fer coyotes, but I didn't know fer sure?
I sort of wondered if I wanted to slow those same deer loads down?
I have at least two loads suitable for "big game" already, the Hornady 150gr SP with 41 grs of RL3130, and the 165gr Swift A-Frame backed by 40 grs of IMR4895.
They print close enough together I can consider them "the same".
Big game seasons are over, now IS the time to experiment with some lightweight loads.
For nothing other than the sake of the experiment, I think I'm going to try using the sabots... at the range, and see where it goes from there.
You know me, I am always up for an adventure! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Krusty
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 07, 2007, 09:11 AM:
Only if you get off on tinkering, Krusty. Otherwise, why add another component, just so you can supposedly match the hatch? I'd pick a reasonable bullet that shows accuracy and forget about it. One gun, one load is my motto. It's interesting that you even thought of the twist, but don't forget, when push comes to shove, it's the weight of the sabot and the bullet. Maybe that's why most people report less than great accuracy with the accelerators? But, if they quit selling them in 308, that should tell you something? What you seek in a dual application bullet can be found in the bullet weights I mentioned. I'm not up on what's available, but something within those parameters will do what you need doing without screwing with sabots.
Good luck, LB
Posted by Relentless (Member # 2140) on December 07, 2007, 09:45 AM:
Krustyklimber
There’s a guy in Ut. that’s selling sabots. You can find his web page at– J&D Components.
He has 30 caliber sabots, starter kits, and some computer generated loading tables available if need be. You could give him a call and pick his brain. Sounds like he’s in the business and it’s likely that he would have lots to say about his product and how to make it work. Just another resource if you have questions.
There’s also an article in the Oct. Issue of Predator Xtreme, where the author relates some of his experiences with sabots, in case you haven’t seen it. Sounds like you have to push those things fast. So work up slow. Safety. Safety. Safety.
I’ve used Remington’s accelerators in my 30/30 Thompson Encore hand gun, with a 15 inch barrel, and they shoot remarkably well. I’ve haven’t attempted to load my own yet, but it’s on my list of things to do. I’ve got a rifle or two around here that they might work in.
Leonard’s idea about just trying different bullets for the 308 makes sense to me.
Spend time at the loading bench,--- or out hunting? On other hand, if the weather gets too bad for hunting, or if you just enjoy experimenting. Go for it.
Safety first.
Keep us informed on what you find out.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on December 07, 2007, 12:53 PM:
Leonard,
Take a look at the calls I made you, and think about how much "tinkering" I did, just for the fun of it.
It's handloaded sabots that most people report having trouble with, the majority of people who have used the Remington Accelerators, like Relentless, report "remarkable" performance both in accuracy and effectiveness.
I think, from the research I've done, that Remington discontinued the Accelerators, not because of a lack of accuracy in placing bullets, but as much about the inaccuracy of the reputation these cartridges have.
Also I think they'd rather sell you another rifle, more than a box of bullets, and most of you would rather just switch (caliber) rifles anyways.
While taking a personal look at this conundrum, I plan to try both, the factory 30/30 and the 30-06 offerings.
Since they are the benchmark of accuracy we are shooting for.
And if I can find some old stock, the 308s too.
Thanks for the advice on figuring in the weight of the sabot as well as the bullet, that makes sense (but it's easy for a novice like myself to miss something like that).
Any thoughts on what my "goal weight" might be, in a 224 projectile?
When hunting, I'll more than likely use one of the "deer" loads my rifle is sighted in for, the sabot thing is for nothing else but tinkering at this point.
I'm also tinkering with the hunting light idea we discussed, so anchoring power is my main goal for my firearm for the rest of the night hunting season, another reason I wouldn't even pretend to do any of this experimenting in the field.
I get bored at the range, really fast, a "project" that intrigues me, is always welcome.
Climbers have a saying, "One good test, is worth a thousand theories".
No way would I discredit the experience or the opinions of those who offer advice, but sometimes I still just gotta test stuff for myself.
Relentless,
Thanks, yeah in my research I ran across and bookmarked that site.
I've already e-mailed, requesting 308 load data. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Speaking of weather, where are you at, how is it over there? Is it "too bad to for hunting" yet?
I was hoping to get back over to Newport for a hunt.
Krusty
Posted by Relentless (Member # 2140) on December 07, 2007, 02:20 PM:
Krustyklimber
We’re here near Diamond Lake just South of Newport. The weather here has bean kinda crazy. First off the snow held off almost a full month. Then we got a couple little dumps, then the big storm last week that put down 15 to 18 inches in a 24 hour period. Depending on where you wanted to measure it. The next day it warmed up to 40 degrees, the wind started blowing, and it started raining. Another 24 hours and all the snow was gone. It made it down to 19 last night but we’ve only made it into the single digits a couple of times. We need close to 0 to make old willy coyote more responsive. The guys hunting around the Sprague, Ritzville area seem to have a lot better luck then us in Pend Oreille county.... That might be up for debate. Anyway, I rather drive 5 min. than an hour and a half one way.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on December 07, 2007, 02:44 PM:
Relentless,
My friends call my Krusty.
I can see Diamond Lake from one of my favorite places, every time I go over, I walk to the top of Sand Butte.
A fair portion of all the coyotes my brother and I have called, have been in P.O. Co.
I drive right past Sprague Lake to get to your neighborhood (Deer Valley and Gray Rd), we hunt all that Stimson and Riley Creek land (too).
We were there for late buck, and I was bummed at how warm and how wet it was... they blamed it on us, 'cause we're from Seattle.
Krusty
Posted by Relentless (Member # 2140) on December 07, 2007, 03:50 PM:
Krusty
I hunt the Boise Cascade ground between Deer valley Rd. and Viet Rd. mostly, but it gets a tremendous amount of pressure during deer season and it takes the coyotes a while to come back to the area. I grew up in the Tri Cities, but I didn’t really hunt much then. Now my son and his wife live down there and I’m trying to get him interested in predator hunting, but haven’t had much success yet.
It sounds like your brother isn’t more than a couple of miles from me as the crow flies. If you get over this way give me a holler and we’ll get together for coffee or an adult beverage.
I was wondering who to blame for the weather.
Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on December 08, 2007, 08:50 AM:
Krusty,
My Hornady book shows 4/ 110 grain 308 bullets. I know you love the challenge and tinkering, and if anyone has the patience to make them (the sabot or 110's) work you do!
They have Vmax, soft point, round nose and full metal jacket, with 22 inch barrel they show 2700 - 3200 fps. WOW.
Might be fun
Carl
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on December 08, 2007, 10:24 AM:
Relentless,
I know the area you speak of, and yup, it can get pretty busy (everywhere) over there, when the orange army invades.
Now that Riley Creek has blocked many of their roads, the few remaining "drive in" areas were a mob scene this year.
It's not my brother who lives over there, but Jim is "like family" to us.
My Dad and my brother have been going over there to hunt for a dozen years or so, and I have for half of that.
Every year I spend more and more time there, and would love to just stay.
I'll definitely give you a shout when I'm headed that way again.
Word I got, was y'all needed some rain!
Carl,
With my 17 3/4" barrel I don't expect to set the world on fire, with speed or accuracy.
If I can get it to shoot palm sized groups, with 30cal 110's, or 224 sabots, I'd be more than happy.
Krusty
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 08, 2007, 11:35 AM:
quote:
It's hard to choose a bullet, when you have as much of a chance at a 400 pound black bear, as you do a 14 pound bobcat. (Krusty)
If I learned anything in college, it was "write to the question." and essays count for more than multiple choice. Of course, that was then. How provincial!
Anyway, forget about sabots and 110 grain bullets, Amigo. Doesn't matter how fast you can drive them, they are not dual purpose by any stretch of the imagination.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on December 08, 2007, 11:47 PM:
Leonard,
I didn't go to college.
As they do though, this thread has drifted from it's original course.
Your advice to forgo the .224 sabots and lightweight 30cal bullets, for any type of hunting (dual or singular purpose), is duly noted.
And, realistically, accepted.
Don't worry, I'll go to the woods with 150-165gr bullets, all year.
My rifle, and I both like the 165gr Swift A-frame load (41gr 4895) I already tried.
For the sake of tinkering, personal education and entertainment, and any curious onlookers this may have generated, I will continue to delve into the subject of sabot loads, at the range.
We may not even get to the point of reloading with sabots.
Since the Remington factory ammo is the benchmark of accuracy, a box or two of them should determine if the idea of handloading for the .308 merits further investigation.
"I get bored at the range, really fast, a "project" that intrigues me, is always welcome."
Krusty
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 12, 2008, 12:50 PM:
Relentless,
Are you around still?
I'm headed your way on Monday, probably gonna spend a week or so.
E-mail me...
Krusty
Posted by OLD TIMER (Member # 2522) on March 27, 2008, 10:47 AM:
I use the 125 graim spitzer works for me
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2008, 11:39 AM:
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, Bernie. Glad to have you on board.....especially an old CSVCA member! We could swap war stories all night long, I suspect?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on March 27, 2008, 12:51 PM:
Bernie,
Thanks, that's definitely one on the long list.
Leonard,
What's ironic, and I forgot to mention it in my trip report, is that I am now using factory fodder.
Out of frustration with going to the range and feeling I'd take a step forward and two steps back, I decided to sight in a box of Federal's Power Shock "Blue Box" 150gr SP's, and take a break from load development.
Krusty
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 19, 2008, 05:25 PM:
I've successfully used the 110 gn Vmax in 308 with good accuracy and more stopping power than needed. It's hard on pelts.
I know of one hunter that simply used 168 gn matchkings. They did real well with in the stopping power department on yotes, and they blew thru with little pelt damage when exiting.
Posted by OLD TIMER (Member # 2522) on April 23, 2008, 07:00 PM:
I tried the 110 hollow points shot a jack rabbit and could only find bits and peices so i put them away then and there
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2008, 07:22 PM:
If you are forced to use a 308, that 125 Sierra is a good choice. Nothing in 308 is fur friendly, perhaps the best is 168 Nosler Match, (that I tried)
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 24, 2008, 05:24 AM:
OLD TIMER,
That's not always a good measure. My 17 Remington is the most fur friendly coyote rifle that I own. But that same fur friendly coyote load will blow a jackrabbit in half. And I don't often find more than the head and one back leg when I shoot a cottontail with it.
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