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Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 26, 2007, 01:28 PM:
i am 15 years old and im looking for a good gun that can take out anything from a prarie dog to a coyote. im looking at a ruger mini 14 but i would prefer a bolt action what would be a good gun. also i want to know if i should buy a new gun or find a used one.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2007, 01:37 PM:
Welcome to the New Hutmasters, young hunter. Glad to have you on board. We need more young blood around here.
I'd personally stay away fro a Mini 14, if it were me, but there are a lot of choices. Let's see what the others think.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 26, 2007, 03:23 PM:
i do not care about noise and recoil because i will mostly be hunting on private land any ways. i want something that can shoot flat and straight up to around 400 yards. i want to be able to kill not slaughter a coyote so that i can sell the hides to pay off the gun. by the way coyotes in the green sell for around 50 bucks now!!!
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on April 26, 2007, 03:54 PM:
i want something that can shoot flat and straight up to around 400 yards. i want to be able to kill not slaughter a coyote so that i can sell the hides to pay off the gun.
The only way you are going to get a flat shooting accurate Mini 14 is to get one of the new modified MOA ones. 400 yards in a .223 is stretching it, unless you use FMJ's and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.
If you want a round that is going to do what you ask, a .22-250 or .220 Swift is more your style.
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 26, 2007, 04:13 PM:
ok i probably will be doing most of my shooting between 100-250 yards but i want something that can take out a coyote up to 300-400 yards away. what caliber and gun would be the best? im looking now at a .204, .22-250, and a .222 what would be the best i have heard that the .204 isnt very good over 150 yards sny ideas?
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 26, 2007, 04:41 PM:
The .204 and 22-250 are both excelent coyote rifles, but the .204 is more fur friendly.
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on April 26, 2007, 05:53 PM:
I don't personally own a .204 but from what I have heard it is very good out past 300 yards and maybe more. I am not the most gun saavy guy on the board so take my advice with a grain of salt.
The only rounds I would personally feel comfortable trying to take a coyote with @ 400 yards or more would be with .22-250 or above. With whatever choice you make there are going to be trade-offs. Long range power equals close quarters damage, more oft than not. Short range and fur-friendly equals long range dud. This is, of course, if you would be using factory loaded cartridges.
The .204 may in fact be the best option for you. Although at 15 the affordability and availability of .223 rounds is hard to beat.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 26, 2007, 07:30 PM:
I'll throw my 2 cents in, I have had several 22-250s and now have a 204 but I haven't had enough experience with it to make a reccomendation. As said the 22-250 will work way out there but will do more damage up close. I wouldn't hesitate to use a 22-250 for all my coyote hunting though.
But I use a 223 most of the time and limit my shots to 250 yards or so, while calling my average is about 50 yards so it would depend on your circumstances as to whether it would suit you. Same goes for the 222, with it's minimal noise and recoil it's hard to beat for 250 yards and under.
Welcome to Huntmasters.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2007, 07:38 PM:
One thing about it, you won't be making a mistake, regardless of which of the above recommendations you decide on. Nobody ever says;
"Man, now I'm stuck with a useless 22-250!"
...maybe it has been said on one or two occasions refering to a Mini 14? It's just not the best choice for hunting predators and especially not for ground vermin.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 27, 2007, 01:31 AM:
Ok......another .02¢ worth.
It's no secret around here that I'm an unrepentant Mini-14 user. It works for me. I consider it my 'long range' gun, meaning out to about 150 yards. My 'close range' gun shoots red plastic shells. All of that having been said, I would NOT recommend the Mini in your case.
Far more important at your age is to (1) Learn to shoot well (2) Learn to hunt well & (3) Learn when to shoot.
I would suggest that you look at the Thompson Contender or Encore frame with shoulder stock & carbine barrel in .223 under a decent 4 power scope. Later, for the price of a barrel & scope, you could try any number of different calibers for different applications.
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on April 27, 2007, 05:46 AM:
get a 22-250 and never look back. A 204 more fur freindly than a 22-250? Another myth spread by the sub calibre crowd. 22-250 is an excellent fur gun. it's just that not all bullets are fur friendly. By the way you just can't throw any bullet in a 204 and get wonderful results. The only advantage that a 204 has is that it's quieter.
A good quality gun is always bargain compared to on that is cheaply constructed. The tikka's have good rep. The new remingtion sps's model seem to be a good buy. the advantage to a to a rem. is that if you decided to make changes parts are readily available. A good stock is worth the extra $.
Anyhow for coyotes a 22-250 is just plain hard to beat.
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 27, 2007, 06:27 AM:
alright thanks for the help now what kind of gun should i get i will probably get a .22-250 should i look into a used gun or just buy a good new one. does anyone own a CZ out there cause there cheep and thats what im looking at now. i am a huge ruger fan is the only reason why i like the mini 14 but i agree it probably isnt the right gun for me. although i do like the m77 in .22-250 but the price is kind of alot. my price range is from $500-$700
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 27, 2007, 06:43 AM:
From my experience with the .204 it has definitely been a more Fur friendly round than my .22-250,with the right bullet.I wouldn't use the plastic tip bullets for coyotes on a bet.But it's hard to beat the 35 grain Bergers as a fur bullet.That's not to say I didn't have good luck with my .22-250 as a fur round over the last 18 years,again with the right bullet.
I hear people say all the time to get the larger calibers for this reason or that reason.Most of it is just plain BS.
Simple fact of the matter is my .22-250 collects dust most of the time now because my .204 is getting most of the action.
Bottomline,The .204 is a VERY versatile round.It's hard to beat the 32/40 vmax/blitzkings for PD's and rockchucks.And for me the 35 grain bergers have been an incredible fur bullet.The new 45 grain Hornady softpoint has so far really impressed me,and is VERY comparable ballistically to the 55 grain sierra gamekings I shoot in my .22-250.
Hype?Call it what you will it is one hell of a fun/effective gun to shoot.GO WITH THE .204 AND NEVER LOOK BACK. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
FWIW Good Hunting Chad
[ April 27, 2007, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 27, 2007, 07:07 AM:
i have herd that the .204 is terrible in windy areas. is that true or a bunch of BS.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 27, 2007, 07:16 AM:
Depends on the Bullet you use.But that's mostly BS too...
[ April 27, 2007, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2007, 07:54 AM:
Another interesting and entertaining fact.
This bantering about cartridges, much less the rifles that are chambered for them, has been going on in one form or another since Jack OConner first suggested that a necked down 30'06 (270Winchester) might be a better choice than the parent cartridge.
Welcome to the 2007 version of the same argument; 204 versus 223.
The beauty of these discussions is that everybody starts with an opinion and learns why they have it, as they go along.
Don't get it? One day you will.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by blakyote (Member # 1064) on April 27, 2007, 09:34 AM:
quote:
my price range is from $500-$700
You could probably get a savage bolt for around that and less,a friend of mine just won a Stevens 200 in 243 I bekieve,it seems to shoot pretty good.I have a Rem 700 in .243 that shoots pretty decent.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 27, 2007, 02:22 PM:
get a good bolt gun, Rem. savage,ruger,sako. and stay away from the single shots...
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 27, 2007, 02:41 PM:
YH
the link below will take you to a Ruger 204 for $525 You could get a Burris fullfield II 3X9 and be right at 7Bills
Good luck with your choice.
Kelly
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52552223&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 27, 2007, 06:30 PM:
TA17Rem:and stay away from the single shots...
I don't agree.I've had alot of fun/success with my T.C Contender Carbine.Plus it's Very economical.If I remember right the frame cost me about $150-200,forearm $20.00,Butt stock $50.00,Each Barrel runs about $200-250.The only problem is they become quite addictive. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
But they are a great gun for the money.
Bolt actions are great especially for multiples and I use one most of the time for calling but the single shots are good too.Just different.Good Hunting Chad
[ April 27, 2007, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by KevinKKaller (Member # 559) on April 27, 2007, 06:57 PM:
My 2c I own Both a full blown custum 22-250 Ad have killed a truck load of coyotes with it.
I also own 2-204s one is a simi custom that I cary ALL THE TIME.
I do shoot a hevier gun during Hevy winds (20-40 mph)
i HAVE SHOT P DOGS IN nm GROUNG SQERLS IN iD AND COYOTES IN 7 SYATES WITHE THE 204 AND AM HOOKED ON THE 204.
i PREFER 35GRAIN bURGERS IN THE SIMI CUST. AND MY ONCOR LIKES THE 40 GRAINERS
I Think you would be happy with ether in a bolt or a oncor But if I could only own 1 It would be hard to decide witch oue but I think it would be my 204
Hope it helps
Good hunting
Kevin
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 27, 2007, 07:01 PM:
Got a savage 22-250 cheapest one I could find because I couldnt bear to spray paint a fine firearm.also I can drop it with out tears damn thing shoots better than I do. havent rergeted it once.However if you really want a mini 14 let me know got a beautiful gently used one ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
lol
PM
Posted by KevinKKaller (Member # 559) on April 27, 2007, 07:07 PM:
A Note on the oncore and contenders I own 3 contenders and 1 oncore with multipol Barrols
I shot my oncore during the Midwest Championchis this year in a 240 wetherby ( The wind was blowing with gusts to 50 MPH)
I called 4 coyotes at one stand my Pard was shooting a bolt 243 I Killed 2 of the dogs He Killed 1
If you know yor gun and Practic you can reload almost as fast as a bolt gun.
Hope this helps
Kevin
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2007, 07:08 PM:
lol is right. Paul you are a true gentleman, to part with a treasured Mini14. Yeah, I can't keep the grin off my face....you are pretty sharp!
Good hunting. LB
edit; I think Kevin is talking about an Encore?
[ April 27, 2007, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 27, 2007, 09:09 PM:
Yep those Encores are pretty accurate, thats why most BR. shooters use them.
I owned a pair of T/C at one time, also had a pair of XP-100's. The T/C are a little better than the mini -14, but not by much..Either they shoot or they don't and there is not much you can do , other than get another custom barrel and try it. By the time you are done going through barrels, you could of saved some time and money and got a good bolt action rifle. But they must work for some and i'm happy for them....
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 27, 2007, 09:37 PM:
TA17Rem:The T/C are a little better than the mini -14, but not by much..Either they shoot or they don't and there is not much you can do , other than get another custom barrel and try it. By the time you are done going through barrels, you could of saved some time and money and got a good bolt action rifle. But they must work for some and i'm happy for them....
B.S!!!! At this time I have 3 barrels, A 22 inch .221 fireball,A 22 inch .223 Ackley Improved,and A 23 inch .204 ruger and all of them shoot under an inch 5 shot group @ 100 yrds.
I did have the trigger worked on by Mike Bellm but that's it.
Granted they are not Bench Rest guns,but then again I'm not a BR shooter.I have no problem killing what I aim at.Good Hunting Chad
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 28, 2007, 06:48 AM:
so if i bought a TC ould i switch between 2 barrels and calibers?
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 28, 2007, 07:26 AM:
Yes....
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 29, 2007, 04:09 PM:
i think that i have found the set up that i want please let me know if youve herd any thing good or bad about a ruger m77 markII in .204 caliber. i havent quite decided on a scope but im looking at the mueller APV 4.5-14x40 what is a good scope for that kind of rifle i like this set up because its under $850 is there any thing better replies are gretly appreciated.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 29, 2007, 07:04 PM:
Look at CZ, Remington or Savage rifles before you make your purchase. If the Ruger is cheaper, it's for a reason.
Just my opinion, but Ruger makes some great handguns, but they haven't yet figured out how to make a good accurate rifle.
Posted by KevinKKaller (Member # 559) on April 29, 2007, 09:45 PM:
sorry about my spelling !!
If you have decidded on a bolt gun Talk to a few ruger 204 owners
My huntig Pard has to hand load his ruger to make it shoot. It wont shoot factory amo under 1 inch It hangs around 1 1/4 to 1 1/2.
But with handloads with 32 grainers it will shoot around 3/4
He cant get it to shoot hevier bullets at all.
I have a t/c and a Savage My savage dosent like the 40s vary much but will shoot any thing else I have put threw it My T/C will shoot any thing 40gr or liter
Good hunting Kevin
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2007, 09:52 PM:
Rugers shoot, if you screw on a premium barrel, but that action screw is still a little suspect?
My opinion is that a new shooter will generally go for the looks of a Ruger, if the price is the same as a Remington. But when you start talking about Savages, they seem to shoot as good or better than a Ruger, but they are ugly. It's hard to pick an ugly rifle over a pretty one, unless you consider performance, and a newbie usually thinks they are all the same quality. It's a rare Ruger that is a true tack driver.
The CZ's that I have seen, show quality. The only thing I don't like the magazine configuration.
It's not very practical for a new shooter, but I think the best solution is to get a used Remington 700 action, and build a rifle. It sure helps to have another rifle to use for the next year, while the project crawls toward completion.
Good hunting. LB
[ April 29, 2007, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 30, 2007, 06:27 AM:
i have concidered a used gun i want to find one i good shape and there are not alout of used gun shops near me. i do not care at all what my gun looks like i kinda want a sythetic so that i could spray paint it camo. i think that i will definetly be looking around at some used gun shops soon and see what is in my price range.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 30, 2007, 09:47 AM:
In that case, read my lips: used Remington 700 .
If it doesn't shoot, and you are sure there are no bedding problems, take it to a gunsmith with a borescope. If it shows throat errosion, just buy a premium barrel.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on April 30, 2007, 02:54 PM:
i know this is a complete diffrent legue but is a .17 hmr any good i saw one in the paper a savage with a bull barel and scope for $300 is it any good i know its not a distance gun but my uncle is concidering buying one to keep in his closet fo an ocasinal coyote and pdogs
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 30, 2007, 05:39 PM:
The 17 HMR will work, but it is best left to the experienced coyote callers and expert shots.
Newer hunters and young shooters will send more wounded coyotes out to die, than they will ever bring home.
Avoid the frustration and skip it for a few more years. Unless you are just looking for a fun gun to take care of PD's and jackrabbits.
Leonard is giving you some great advise, look for a used Remington in Model 700. 10 years from now, when you want something new, that rifle will be a great platform to build on.
Savage and CZ's are kind of ugly to some folks, but if you prefer performance to pretty, they are hard to beat!
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on April 30, 2007, 06:37 PM:
I couldnt help myself Leonard
Dont we all have one hidden away way in the back of the gun safe.mine hasnt seen daylight since about a week after purchase years ago.
PM
Posted by Nahuatl (Member # 708) on May 01, 2007, 06:31 AM:
Paul, There are so many .22xxx and 6mm/.24xxx whatevers in the back of my safes, it'd be years before I even knew one was missing.
I shot a coyote at 400+ yards once - in all these years - once. I can't think that far anymore.
By the way, what's it like to be young?
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on May 01, 2007, 06:41 AM:
"Whats it like to be young?" You're probably in the wrong forum to ask that question.
[ May 01, 2007, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on May 01, 2007, 06:56 AM:
it rocks to be a teenager i do what ever i want and i can see far enough to shoot long and straight. the only bad thing is i never have much money for the guns i want.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 01, 2007, 10:27 AM:
As I recall, there was only one thing on my mind, when I was sixteen?
At least I was consistant.
It was the same thing on my mind when I was fourteen and fifteen and seventeen.
Well, that was back in the old days, it's probably different, now?
Good hunting. LB
PS pass all your spare Viagra to Danny
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on May 01, 2007, 03:42 PM:
Just got around to reading this and had one comment to direct at Leonard. It is of little importance, but the parent case of the .204 isn't the .223. It has quite a little more case capacity than the .223 and I think is based off of a 222 Rem mag case. (Quite a little being in relative terms).
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 01, 2007, 04:07 PM:
Thanks for correcting me on that, Sir. I guess I assumed and you know what they say? But, I submit, if you put a 223 Rem and a 222 Rem Mag in your pocket, and bet the farm on being able to pull the correct one out of your pocket, you lead a charmed life, if you can do it.
Damn, are you sure about that? Oh well, that's the first mistake I ever made, thanks for pointing it out, ***. I owe you one!
Good hunting. LB
edit: I only had to ponder it for about thirty seconds. They probably did it for the same reason that the 270 case is longer than a 30'06. Or a 357 being longer than a 38 Special? Chambering mistakes.
[ May 01, 2007, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on May 01, 2007, 05:43 PM:
Like I said Leonard, It was of little importance, and I made the same assumption for quite a while. Not a lot of difference, but you make so few incorrect statements that it's kind of fun to point one out! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 01, 2007, 08:11 PM:
Ah, that's cute, shows charactor, being kind to old people. Confession: I was just kidding, that wasn't my first mistake.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on May 02, 2007, 07:37 PM:
is a .308 way to big for coyotes? it looks like a cool versitale rount which i need because im elk hunting in the fall, phesant hunting in the fall,coyote hunting in the winter and fishing [no gun required] in the summer. i think that is way to big of a caliber but i will apriciate comments
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 02, 2007, 09:38 PM:
The 308 is good for elk, too small for pheasants, and too much for coyotes..
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on May 03, 2007, 05:59 AM:
well i know that i cant use a rifle for pheasant hunting. that is my biggest dilema i have to buy a shotgun i think im going to get a remington 870 12 gauge and then start saving up for a varmint rifle.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on May 03, 2007, 06:57 AM:
LOL
Question...
Why do you do that?
Answer...
Because it is so easy.
Posted by young hunter (Member # 1394) on May 03, 2007, 07:04 AM:
i have always wanted a lever action rifle and i was looking at marlins web site. they have a lever action in .32 and .44 which they say can be used for coyotes is that true?? i could use a .44 for deer and maybe elk to so please reply.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 03, 2007, 11:41 AM:
Oops, looks like Higgy has busted ya.....because he can!
Good hunting from Ft Leonard Wood. LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 06, 2007, 03:58 PM:
Just a heads up for anyone "needing" another rifle. Zanders is closing this one out, it was a special run that I never heard of, anyway it's a Rem 700 Light weight Mountain Rifle in 22-250, 22" barrel in a Rem Ti stock. Mine weighs 5.9 pounds as shown, action is slick as can be. If it shoots, great, if not I'm gonna rebarrel it to 22-250 AI. Already ordered Talley light weight ringmounts and will stick a 3.5-10 Leupold on it. Just might work, oh and closeout dealer price is $469.
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