This is topic Shot gun loads for coyotes in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Dsmith7136 (Member # 732) on December 10, 2005, 11:28 AM:
Years ago I shot coyotes with handloaded copper-plated 2s or #4 buck in 12 ga. 2-3/inch hulls. They seemed to do the job at 40 yards or under, but I'm haven't used a shotgun on them in a long time, so I'm wondering what shotgunners are using today on predators.
Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 10, 2005, 02:15 PM:
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, Dsmith7136. Glad to have you on board.
The two you mention are what I use, but there has bee a lot of buzz lately for something called, "dead coyote"? Of course, a ten gauge is hard to beat...wish I had one!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Dsmith7136 (Member # 732) on December 10, 2005, 03:15 PM:
Thanks for the info, Leonard. I'm aware of Dead Coyote. It's non-toxic Heavy Shotin large sizes - tungsten, iron, something else, etc. It's pretty doggone pricey too, and I haven't heard that it kills 'em any deader or patterns any better than the conventional stuff.
I'm always the last one to jump on a new fad, so I think I'll just stick with my regular loads for now.
Thanks again,
Dennis
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on December 10, 2005, 03:32 PM:
Heavy Shot also has a B size waterfowl load called Heavy Steel, but it's not steel and supposidly is heavier than steel. Anyway I bought some before Rawlins just to try and was impressed. It has an advertised muzzle velocity of 1550 fps and is quite a bit cheaper than Dead coyote. I had it as the first two of my seven in my Bennelli and killed a couple close ones that any shotgun load would have killed, but my partner killed a red fox and a coyote with the same and both of them were 50 to 60 yds. The coyote did require an extra shot but the first one did knock him down. I'd like BB size better, but this stuff seems to work. I think it was 20 bucks for a box of 25. And it's not the Remington stuff, this is made by Heavy Shot themselves.
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on December 10, 2005, 04:10 PM:
sounds like a good shell Cal, the dead coyote is only 1350 with 11 foot-pound of energy at 100 yards. wonder what this hevi-steel has for energy? i sure like the cheaper part of these shells. what were you loading for your other 5 shells in your Bennelli?
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on December 11, 2005, 04:26 PM:
The rest were Dead Coyote 3". I like them too. But the velocity on the others sure seems to make a difference.
Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on December 12, 2005, 11:46 AM:
I've been using Remington Premier 3" #2 hevishot in my 870 supermag for moonlit calling. Hevishot is very very hard so it's doesn't flatten when it hits something, so it penetrates much deeper. Plus it's denser so it carries more weight/punch which also makes it penetrate better. I've used a few different hevishot loads on different game and predators and have noticed a penetration improvement over unplated lead. I haven't comparied it to copper plated lead.
But out my 870 supermag the dense #2 pattern is a real bone breaker. I haven't shot alot of coyotes with it yet, none of them very far, but I have no doubt it would do good to 50 yards, but not likely much farther. So far the predators I've taken with hevishot include coyote, raccoon, possum, skunk, and a badger (he was 2 foot from the end of my barrel, so that doesn't really count).
After my #2's run out though I'm planning to test some 3" mag BB hevishot. It is more costly per box, but I don't shoot enough coyotes with the shotgun a year to worry about the cost too much. One box of 20 lasts me a year or more usually, depending on how many farm varmints (coon, possum, skunk, badger, etc) I shoot.
later,
scruffy
Posted by GCrock (Member # 351) on December 13, 2005, 01:01 PM:
Cal,
Knowing what you now know about the performance of the dead coyote and the heavy shot B's--do you still prefer the 12 gauge over the 10 gauge performance wise? I'm on the fence as far as 10 gauge #4 buck or dead coyote out of a 3 1/2 12 gauge. Was the reason you went to the 12 for performance, lighter weight, convenience, or just to have another toy? Just kidding--but would like your thoughts on the 10 versus 12 now that you have shot coyotes with both. Thanks for your time.
Greg C.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on December 13, 2005, 05:55 PM:
Greg, My SP10 weighs more with 3 shells in it than my Bennelli M2 with 7. LOL!
Plus with the new shells out (like Dead Coyote) and the magazine capacity there are just too many down sides to the 10 guage. Plus it is impossible to find lead shot of BB or so in the 10, they even quit making 4 buck. Unless you get it custom made and thats expensive, or load your own, and I don't shoot enough shotgun to warrant another reloading set up. I happened on my M2 in a gunshop one day, liked it, bought it, and have never looked back. I kill more coyotes with the Bennelli simply because I don't mind carrying it. It don't weigh anything, so alot of times I'll pack it and a rifle both and don't mind. I hated packing the SP10 even by itself!
Posted by GCrock (Member # 351) on December 14, 2005, 01:11 PM:
Thanks Cal, exactly what I was looking for. By the way, what choke did you find that gives you the best patterns out of your M2? What barrel length do you have? I like the idea of less weight, and being able to walk a few hills with both rifle and shotgun in tow and not be all tired out, but I didn't want to sacrifice too much performance. Now then, time to do a little Christmas shopping.....for myself. Thanks again for your time, Cal.
Greg C.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on December 14, 2005, 07:29 PM:
Mine has a pretty short barrel, around 20". And I added the magazine extension. The choke I have in it now is an Undertaker I believe. I can look up the size, but don't know it off the top of my head. It did pretty good with the factory full, but a little better with the turkey choke. The M2 won't shoot the 3 1/2's but I like the 3's better anyway. It patterns plenty good to 50 yds, and thats about all I think you can reliably expect. I have killed some stuff farther than that, but for 100% first shot knockdown, I'd limit it to about 50 or 60 max.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on December 15, 2005, 01:12 PM:
Cal Taylor,
You are correct about good copper or nickle plated and buffered lead shot in BB or #4 BUCK being almost impossible to find in 10 gauge. I found some in 00 BUCK, but that stuff pretty much sucks for coyote hunting because the shot gets too far apart in a hurry. I went to the HEVI shot site and they don't even list a 10 gauge offering. Remington and Browning are gonna have to depend entirely on goose hunters and those who wish to load their own 10 gauge coyote fodder I guess. I checked websites of Winchester, Remington and Federal too. Good fodder for coyotes is no longer made by these fine company's. Ain't that a kick in the arse?
Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on December 15, 2005, 01:30 PM:
Not cheap, but here's some 10 gauge loads in production.
3 1/2 mag, BB, Bismuth, 1 7/8oz, 1225fps, $22.99 a box of 10
BB Bismuth
3 1/2 mag, BB, Bismuth, 1 5/8oz, 1375fps, $22.99 a box of 10
BB Bismuth HV
3 1/2 mag, #2, Hevishot, 1 3/4oz, 1300fps, $21.99 a box of 10
#2 hevishot
All waterfowling loads. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I've never shot or used bismuth so I don't know anything about it. The #2 hevishot is what I use in my 12 gauge and really like it alot, very even pattern of 120 #2's out of a 3" mag 12 gauge = alot of broken bones. The hevishot doesn't flatten, hits hard, and penetrates very nicely.
But it's unfortunate someone doesn't make a 10 gauge "dead coyote" load. I'd hate to be the coyote looking up the moose dick! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
later,
scruffy
[ December 15, 2005, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
Posted by Dsmith7136 (Member # 732) on December 17, 2005, 08:07 AM:
Thanks Fellas, That's exactly the kind of exchange I was looking for. I have about 10-12 rounds of 3-inch #4 buck left, and as soon as I finish that off I'll try some of that heavy steel. I reckon that might take a while though.
Thanks again,
Dennis
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 20, 2005, 09:34 AM:
I'm still finding 3 inch 12 gauge copper plated lead BB at Sportsmans Warehouse. Works well and is a lot cheaper than the exotic metals.
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on December 20, 2005, 10:32 AM:
Those are some of my favorites Kokopelli, but they are sure hard to find. We have a Sportsmans in Casper, and I looked last time I was there, but missed them or they didn't have them. I found a new testing medium that I really like. I had some frozen skinned cat and coyote carcasses laying by my shop, so I set a couple up and tested some shotgun loads. The Dead coyote load is hard to beat, except for the price.
[ December 20, 2005, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 20, 2005, 10:50 AM:
Cal, I've found the lead BB at Sportsmans Warehouse in two different states so far. Give them a call and they should be able to get it for you.
I agree that the exotic stuff is better, but not better enough to justifie the price. Under 45 yards, dead is dead, exotic metal or plain old lead.
ADC work or contest hunts.....I would go with the best I could get for the extra edge.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 20, 2005, 11:30 AM:
Yeah, that about sums it up, but I still think they are missing the boat, a little, by not offering the heavy shot, or dead coyote in larger sizes. I quit using 3" 2oz. Federal BBs a long time ago, unless I don't have a choice. I tend to think (speculate) that a #4 Buck in Heavy shot would be the cat's ass.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on December 21, 2005, 06:50 PM:
I have been testing Hevi Shot since the 2001 shotshow through more chokes than I can list here. All shot sizes and all lengths.
After four years I have come up with what will be in my Benneli. hands down 2 3/4" #2.
This is a standard sheet of note book paper at 50 yards. There is two OO buck in there just for kicks. No problem penetrating Coyote skull at 60 yards. I like that swarm of bone breakers.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2005, 12:40 AM:
So, what is this, Ronnie? A hand load consisting of 40 #2 heavishot & 6ea.00buck? And you have 15 #2 and 2ea 00buck on the notebook paper? And, in a .710 choke? What does that charge weigh and what's the dram eqv.?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on December 22, 2005, 02:37 AM:
A little further explanation Leonard. Unless I am testing for waterfowl I don't mess with the standard 30" circle. I use note book paper. I figure it represents the front shoulders, and heart lung aria of a Coyote close enough. That sheet was stapled to a piece of cardboard 17" X 22". I wonted to see what the OO would do compared to the 2's. The 17" X 22" piece of cardboard had 6 out of 9 OO on it along with 40 of the 2's.
I know "Dead Coyote" in 3" and 3 1/2" is supposed to be the in thing. I just find 2 3/4" 2's work better for me. The buck shot was part of a law enforcement test. I just decided to see how they would do on my little Coyote test. Sorry for the confusion. Very impressed with you picking up on my side notes. Another note. The use of 2's on Coyotes under 20 yards, can only be described as gruesome. A week after this was shot a Coyote came sailing in at about 18 yards from right to left. The 2's caused a near decapitation at that range.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on December 22, 2005, 06:22 AM:
varmit hunter,
What brand of ammo? Is it copper plated and buffered 2&3/4" magnum fodder?
I have known for a long time that 2&3/4" fodder would pattern better than 3" and 3" would pattern better than 3&1/2" fodder when shooting lead shot. Nobody believed me until you came along. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on December 22, 2005, 06:56 AM:
Rich, This is all HEVI SHOT I am talking about. The 2 3/4 just works best for me.
Posted by Dsmith7136 (Member # 732) on December 22, 2005, 08:42 AM:
Wow! This is gettin' better all the time. I like your test parameters Varmint Hunter: 8-1/2x11 inch notebook paper. Makes perfect sense to me. Smart.
My original load (back in the day, as they say) was 1-1/4 oz. of coppered 2s in a 2-3/4 Federal Gold Medal hull. Spit them out the end of an old Ithaca 300 full-choked autoloader. I killed a few coyotes with it. All were DRT under 40 yards. I'm thinking maybe I should just stick with it. After all, "if it ain't broke..."
On the other hand, I work at the Sportsman's Warehouse in Loveland, albeit in the fishing dept., so I should probably look to see what we carry besides Dead Coyote in T shot.
Thanks again for all the input, fellas. Sure is fun reading all this commentary. Educational, too.
Dennis
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on December 22, 2005, 08:49 AM:
I got the Hevi Shot Hevi Steel B size at Sportsmans warehouse also. The main advantage I can see in it is the velocity. 1550 fps is a smokin shotgun load. All the regular Hevi Shot waterfowl loads are around 1300 I think. Anyway, something to try for you guys.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on December 22, 2005, 12:11 PM:
Cal, Those B's will be my next test. One good thing about the shape I am in. It leaves a lot of time fot testing. I have probaly shot more Hevi Shot in the last four years than a South Texas Dove hunter going through 8's.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 22, 2005, 12:20 PM:
That sounds like a LOT of shooting, Ronnie! lol
Texas dove hunters might be like Yuma dove hunters, I don't know Texas, but I have sure seen enough Yuma sky busters. You know, a case of 7½s and a case of #8s per limit. lol If ever I saw a more perfect reason to use a single barrel trap gun on doves, that's it!
Good hunting. LB
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