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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 08, 2013, 09:38 AM:
 
Too much B.S. on other threads.
Time to get back to beating each other up about coyotes.

I've been giving some thought about what has been posted by others (even Tim) about call volume and have somewhat developed a theory on the matter.

First of all; We all hunt different types of terrain.
The terrain we hunt tends to suggest the firearm we carry and this can change from stand to stand.
So, I'm thinking that call volume could be based on weapon selection.
A shotgun would indicate thick cover and lower volume.
A mid-range caliber like a .223 would indicate more open terrain and more volume.
And if you're carrying a bean-field rifle that is built for reach, the call volume should also reach.

What say the assembled masses????
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2013, 09:45 AM:
 
To my simple approach, you make sense. I hope I am as wise and sage when I reach your exalted station and age.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 08, 2013, 10:16 AM:
 
I guess I adhere to a simple approach when it comes to volume. I usually start out stands with howls. Then regardless of the terrain(Thick,moderate cover,or wide open)I use midrange volume(including my howls)with the exception of very windy days then I will crank the volume.I typically make 15 minute stands for the most part,and walk ALOT or take my ATV. And my stands are a fairly short distance apart,especially in areas I know hold alot of coyotes.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 08, 2013, 10:20 AM:
 
Koco,

Although I call pretty loud for coyotes, I don't like to hear the sound echo back at me when calling timber and brush, so I turn the volume down a little.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 08, 2013, 12:58 PM:
 
I've noticed back home in our hardwoods, the caller appears louder than when I am in the desert. I get the "echo" back home if I call (IMO) too loud.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 08, 2013, 01:45 PM:
 
the amount of cover dictates which gun and how loud.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 08, 2013, 02:28 PM:
 
Agreed, back home, and here in the hardwoods a hand call seems too loud.

A shotgun almost always shows enough value, to me, to go everywhere I go.
Like Rich says "if you call em in close you don't need a high dollar range finder" ...or a rifle.

A large portion of the coyotes I've fired on and missed, with the rifle, were in shotgun range.

Krusty
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 08, 2013, 03:23 PM:
 
I did forget to mention that for the last several years(again regardless of the terrain) when I first sit down to call before I howl I will lip squeak on the back of my hand for a few seconds and wait to start calling for a a couple of minutes, just in case I have one REALLY close. Has got me a few bonus coyotes over the years.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 08, 2013, 04:53 PM:
 
If you know you're close to the coyotes, don't call very loud. If you're not sure where they are, or haven't herded them into the section of your choice, call louder.

ETA: On a serious note, a jackrabbit scream is loud. A cottontail, not so much, but I really don't think the coyotes that are going to respond to a call know that. A coyote vocalizing from the distance most people put their e-callers at is REALLY freaking loud.

If you're calling softly enough that a distant coyote can just barely hear it, will it think maybe that rabbit is too damn far away? Once they start, they probably don't change their mind cuz it's farther than they originally thought.

I know of a fella who almost always calls at max volume. He kills a few critters and has pictures of coyotes and bobcats right on top of his caller. Volume consideration is over rated, IMO. I start distress low and ramp it up pretty quickly so I can put the remote down. I usually run my caller at about 3/4 full volume. Natural sounds echo too.

[ February 08, 2013, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on February 08, 2013, 07:05 PM:
 
I hate hearing the echo. It doesn't sound natural (to my ears) at all. So, like others have said...Cover will dictate volume for me. If its wide open, I'll start loud and generally keep it there.
If its brushy draws, I'll start lower.
And...it might not make a bit of difference either!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2013, 11:25 AM:
 
Koko your theory has a few holes in it..
I don't use a shotty when calling, just a med. range rifle and only change to a bigger cal. when in areas that see alot of pressure..
I call with the caller on full volume or just down one click for distress sounds and full volume with vocals..
Instead of lowering the volume according to the type of cover I may call, I just use a softer sound like a vole mouse, baby cotton-tail,or bird
and start most of my stands with one of these sounds and then half way through if nothing shows then I switch to one of the deeper sounding distress sounds like jack or snowshoe..
As for the sound echoing thats a added bunus as it just confuses the coyote to the callers exact location which causes the coyote to just stand around and look.. I've never had a coyote refuse to come in to a stand cause the caller was too loud, they don't care..
Go out calling for a week with the caller on full volume and just match the sounds to the type of cover you willbe calling, it will surprise you...
Even when calling in big country with the volume on full the coyotes will still come with-in 100 200 yards and perhaps closer if I would let them, I don't.....

Edit to add.
For those that call low to med. volume stay on one of your empty stands a little longer and then give full volume a try, it may also surprise you on what you are missing...

[ February 09, 2013, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on February 09, 2013, 11:32 AM:
 
i have seen guys blow coyotes out when starting on high, and i mean coyotes that are within 150 yds jump and run as hard as they can, like it scared the jeepers out of them
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2013, 12:05 PM:
 

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coyotes that are within 150 yds

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I've never had a coyote refuse to come in to a stand cause the caller was too loud, they don't care..

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If there is a coyote 1/4 mile away, out of sight, that hears the call but does not respond, doesn't that one count as a refusal?

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Lets put it this way, the ones I do see or located have not run away from the caller being to loud so why would it be any different for the ones I don't see.
As for home I have called more coyotes with the volume cranked up than with it at any other setting.. " thats why I use full volume", it produces coyotes on my stands and from what I've seen they just don't care how loud it is...
I also don't set up in or near the thickets that hold coyotes as sure as the shit running down your nose you'll be busted everytime....
Just a rough estimate a coyote will know when you are less than 1/2 mile away from them.. Some will run, some will just sit it out and wait for you to leave, and some may forget what they heard and come in to a call after some time has lapse.. If you have dry soil to walk on or some wind or perhaps a wall of heavey cover, you may have a chance to get close without being detected.... Night time calling can be even harder yet to get with-in calling distance as most of the coyotes are up and moveing around, plus sound carries much better at night when there is less going on in a given area. Fresh snow helps cover up the sound of you walking in to make a stand, hard crusted snow does not and will make it more of a challenge.. Wind helps also but you are not always going to get the perfect conditions so rather than wait for them I just hunt them up, either way they will get put up on a stretcher.. For some killing coyotes is a ego boosting, chest thumping, that aboy deal. For me its all about putting fur on the stretcher by calling ,trapping, or hunting them,its all good...
Fred when was the last time you hunted a coyote down with or with out your dog??? you even have a clue as to how to get it done... I doubt it...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2013, 11:08 AM:
 
Rich the more I read your posts the more I learn. I've learned you truely don't know shit about calling let alone coyotes...Perhaps thats why you struggle so much with your coyotes...
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 10, 2013, 12:13 PM:
 
TA, the more I read your posts the more I learn. I've learned you truly don't know shit about calling let alone coyotes... Perhaps that's why you struggle so much with your coyotes...
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on February 10, 2013, 01:51 PM:
 
well i made a stand this week and i knew the coyotes were in a little patch of timber of about a acre, i walked in set up and the coyote showed up in nine seconds of turning the call on, i can tell you tim, that coyote was alot closer then 1/2 mile and he didnt have any idea i was there, matter of fact he was layed up about 150 yards from where i set up, so yes you can be closer then 1/2 mile and them not know you are there, and its fine with me if they want to come right up to the end of my nose, i am fine with killing them close too
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 10, 2013, 02:37 PM:
 
Tim, your theory has a few holes in it

You say the coyotes you did call in at home responded to high volume. That's an excellent analysis, being this all you use, lol! But what about your dry stands at home? How can you be certain that your loud calling did not have the opposite effect on any coyotes within earshot?

I'm failing to comprehend how you can draw a conclusion about a coyote's reaction to loud calling if you never actually SAW the coyote's subsequent response?

You can play the character assassination card on me all ya want to try changing the subject. Funny though, because, unless you were diggin for a Mt Dew the whole time, you heard me hand call and seen me shoot before. But, am I so far behind your e-caller volume skillset that you need me to re-qualify myself in order to question something that makes no sense to me?
Or, are you just trying to change the subject?

Would it make any difference if it was an "expert" asking the same questions of you?
If that is the case, just pretend that I shoot better and call more convincingly than you do, and humor me by answering

How can you tell that loud calling does not have a potentially negative effect on a coyote that us closeby IF YOU CANT SEE THE COYOTE'S reaction?
Is it because you saw it on a WT video, or something?

How can ANYONE draw such a conclusion, for that matter?
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 10, 2013, 02:41 PM:
 

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I also don't set up in or near the thickets that hold coyotes as sure as the shit running down your nose you'll be busted everytime....

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Yeah, why would ya do something silly like trying to sneak in & call that fawker to the edge of the thicket? It ain't like you already know one is in there...
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 10, 2013, 02:49 PM:
 

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[Lets put it this way, the ones I do see or located have not run away from the caller being to loud so why would it be any different for the ones I don't see.

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As for home I have called more coyotes with the volume cranked up than with it at any other setting.. " thats why I use full volume", it produces coyotes on my stands and from what I've seen they just don't care how loud it is...

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So how often do you try seeking in and calling softly to compare to the max. volume approach?

Tim, I'm waaaaaay behind the curve here, and just trying to understand your rationale. What if you sneak in on the wind and make a stand within 300yds of the cover that might hold a coyote? Do you still recommend blowing the house down?
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 10, 2013, 02:51 PM:
 
Tim;
It would appear that we've tailored our hunting methods to our specific types of terrain. You're calling big in big country. In my terrain, I'm relying on several decades of bow hunting experience, moccasins, and lower call volume to take close ones. This past fur season I put several down with the shotgun at less than one minute. Things can happen pretty quick in the brush.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 10, 2013, 03:19 PM:
 
K "Too much B.S. on other threads."

And now, there's too much B.S. in this one.

What's next, the Minnesota Campus of the Predator University?

Krusty
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 10, 2013, 03:20 PM:
 
I am all but deaf in one ear and can hardly hear outta the other one, so it beats the shit outta me just how lou nd my caller is running most stands. Having said that, I hit the first sound and start advancing the volume. Maybe half-full on the first series, and balls to the wall after that. Have had coyotes run the caller over when they got past the first barrage of lead, so I don't know that my coyotes give two shits. LOL Now, I may be wrong. I lost count of how many we've seen this year, and only 90 of them have died since October 1. I must be doing something wrong.

Help?

Oh, and if I said anything that offended anyone, I'm supposed to put this >>> . Right?
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 10, 2013, 04:55 PM:
 
T.A., you really are an opinionated yoyo. I'd bet that Rich Cronk has forgotten more about calling coyotes than you will ever know or forget.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2013, 04:59 PM:
 
Yeah Trapper must be tuff sneaking in on them with all that snow..

Cal.. Not struggleing with my coyotes. I call and kill the ones that canbe called and killed and just kill the rest by other means same as you with your traps and helicopter...

Al: Rich can make some good howlers but thats all I'm giveing him credit for. He started calling coyotes late in his life and not much calling exsperiance to go with it..

[ February 10, 2013, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 10, 2013, 05:22 PM:
 
When TA passes on to the big coyote pasture in the sky, or is burning in hell, what will ppl do with their time?
I turn my caller up to 11 and never look back. I make sure I scare any close coyotes out by tromping into stands.
Mr. Cronk posted some of his credentials on another site, some time ago, he's got some great calling skill and coyote knowledge to go with his howler and distress calls business.

[ February 10, 2013, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 10, 2013, 05:48 PM:
 
"Rich the more I read your posts the more I learn. I've learned you truely don't know shit about calling let alone coyotes...Perhaps thats why you struggle so much with your coyotes."

---------------------------------
Timmy,
Your memory is worse than your hearing. Even at my advanced age I can remember when you could not even call ONE coyote in your home state, so you were chasing them with pickup trucks and the help of "the crew" It wasn't until you got help from Scott H. and Randy R and they helped you get permission in South Dakota did you begin to call coyotes. I had called and killed a hell of a lot of coyotes before I even HEARD of the stupid one from Meenasoteee. Now you talk like as though you are KING of the callers. I have called and killed coyotes in Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming, Texas and more. I have likely forgotten more about coyotes than idiots like you will ever even learn. Why? Because you think you know it all, and you are not willing to listen to guys who are REAL coyote men. Rave on Timmy boy, but nobody is listening.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2013, 05:53 PM:
 

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You say the coyotes you did call in at home responded to high volume. That's an excellent analysis, being this all you use, lol! But what about your dry stands at home? How can you be certain that your loud calling did not have the opposite effect on any coyotes within earshot?

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Thats all I use now Freddy.. I spent last season calling both low volume/softer sounds as well as full volume with soft sounds along with getting right down in by the coyotes in the heavey stuff before the snows hit.. I called and killed more with full volume and by keeping back away from the cover they are in..Low volume calling is just a waste of time here and non-productive...

Here you go Fred. Mn. coyote called in with the WT at "full" volume along with some S.D. coyotes.. They don't give a shit on how loud it is..
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/08- 09%20coyotes/th_Deletepartially5of472009_145243.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208 /TA17Rem/09-10%20Fox%20and%20coyotes/th_Deletepartiallyof2112010_092130.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/T A17Rem/2011-12%20coyotes%20fox/th_Deletepartially4of12172011_100142.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/2010-11%20coyo tes-%20fox/th_Deletepartially3of9172010_133847.jpg[/IMG]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 10, 2013, 06:03 PM:
 
I think I'll continue to do what works for me and not lose any sleep over how the rest of you do.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2013, 06:04 PM:
 
Rich I was calling and killing coyotes way before I joined this site and before I met up with Scott or Randy.. Both of them just helped me to do it better and not take so much for granted.. As for the areas I hunt in S.D. I found them on my own back in the early 80's, ask either one of the two mentioned...
I strive to get better at it where most here don't, they just get set in there ways and thing thats the only way to do it...LOL

Edit to add: I agree Lance.....

[ February 10, 2013, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 10, 2013, 06:22 PM:
 
Tim, You are definitely a Legend in your own Mind.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2013, 07:00 PM:
 
Nope! Just in your's....LOL
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on February 10, 2013, 08:02 PM:
 
what snow are you talking about tim, dry as a powder house here
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 10, 2013, 08:41 PM:
 
Yep and I see you missed one of my posts where I said its pretty tough to sneak up on a coyote with snow on the ground vrs. a area with no snow...
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 11, 2013, 08:48 AM:
 
Ya'll realize that if WT makes a video that says less volume is more, then Timmy will jump ship right? More or less, I let the terrain dictate how much volume to play. When it's uber-cold, the sounds sure to carry farther, so I tune it down a bit. Everybody has their favorite flavor of Kool-Aid.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 11, 2013, 01:48 PM:
 
Tim, it looks like you are calling on the friggin' Moon. And ya may as well be, since that wide open country sucks volume up like a sponge. Heck, even a high powered rifle sounds like a pop gun in that vast expanse. So I'm failing to see how calling on max. volume in the in the wide open can be compared to calling in/near cover at the same volume range.

So...what about calling IN or very near thick cover where soundwaves are reverberating all over the place?

Have you given any thought as to keeping volume lower in thick cover, so as not to alert an animal down the road @ the next potential stand location? OR, would you rather proclaim your existence & location to every coyote in the county on your 1st stand by lettin' it rip?

Remember, some of us don't have bazillions of acres of Moonscape to pummel in a day's calling
Remember, some of us are focusing our efforts in a relatively small area and trying to call any predators from a certain patch of said area.
This is why I don't think that recommending using blaring volume ALL THE TIME is a wise decision. Comprehende?

[ February 11, 2013, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2013, 03:08 PM:
 

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Have you given any thought as to keeping volume lower in thick cover, so as not to alert an animal down the road @ the next potential stand location?

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I do most of my calling at night now, its more productive and my coyotes are more eager to respond from another section of land vrs. day time calling..
Now if you or someone was asking for advice I would just say try it either way and see what works for you as I already know what works here for me..
Oh and the little echo effect just confuses them on where the sound is comeing from, from what I have seen so I don't worry about it...

Edit to add.
Dennis Kirk has a sound out there that is a recorded bird in distress with echo effects added to the sound,(super bird)and has called in many coyotes for me when something different was needed.......

[ February 11, 2013, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on February 11, 2013, 04:58 PM:
 
no i didnt miss the post, i had alot of snow in neb and could still slip in and call them, just different ways folks do it, but i will give you credit, you are the best of the best, or so i have read, but i will still do what works for me and my style of hunting
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2013, 05:35 PM:
 
There you go Trapper, your well on your way of becomeing your own man..
I don't think this thread was directed at just you directly, but to all the members...
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2013, 05:46 PM:
 

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since that wide open country sucks volume up like a sponge.

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Remember, some of us don't have bazillions of acres of Moonscape to pummel in a day's calling

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Try knocking on more doors.. Thats how I do it. If you do a good enough job some of the land owners will pass your name on to others which equals more land access.

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Yes, but what about all those other coyotes you never saw???

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How can you be certain that your loud calling did not have the opposite effect on any coyotes within earshot?

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How can you be certain it did???

Remember the movie "Ghosts of the darkness"
towards the end of the movie one of the actors says "They are just lions"
In this case they are just coyotes...

[ February 11, 2013, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 11, 2013, 08:13 PM:
 
This has been a wonderful week, only blanked on two stands of all Ive made. Been doing it rather primitive, using only a rifle; 18" barreled .17 mach4, with small compact 1.5X6 glass with big bold crosshair,a call and a stool.
No big boomers with VLD bullets or oversized glass. No shooting sticks,no bogpods,no dogs, no blockers no decoys,no barks or howls. Just good country, walk in, sit down and call.....lifes good.

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 11, 2013, 09:08 PM:
 
How about emailing me Vic? I'm in El Paso and will be passing through your area possibly Tuesday or Wed.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 11, 2013, 10:06 PM:
 
Hey Vic, I used some of Cal's vocals on this one, lil ol 204 in a sub 7lb gun, dropped on the run no less but I was using a pole cat for a rest.

Did order a vx6, 1-6 for a machine gun though.

Seems to be lots of flared tempers and bruised egos on the net lately. Glad this shit is just for fun.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2013, 11:35 PM:
 
Nice coyote guys..

I brought a couple of scopes home from Scheels today along with some bullets, also had a chance to look at the F-P calls and picked up the prarie blaster and looked it over and then put it back down and walked away... LOL
Picked up a pair of boots for Copper also and some salmon oil..
Also had a chance to look over one of those power boosters that you use with a red-dot scope. I think Jimmy uses one on his black rifle.. Well built and can see where it would be handy at times....

quote:

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Seems to be lots of flared tempers and bruised egos on the net lately. Glad this shit is just for fun.

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Yep.. I saw that Duane got the boot at P.M who by the way Mod.s for the dog forum...

[ February 11, 2013, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on February 12, 2013, 05:54 AM:
 
Love those Arizona type pics.My weather is similar.Here's another 'small' caliber pic.(17-204).
Note the similar weather.


[ February 12, 2013, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 12, 2013, 07:05 AM:
 
Ryan, follow Tim's advice from a while back and find a gov't hunter to show you how to sneak in on coyotes and blow them out of the cover

Wait, whut???

Tim, could you explain why you'd want to "confuse" a coyote with the location of the sound source? Do you want the coyote to "hunt" for the sound, or just to screw with his tiny brain?

Isn't one of the benefits of using an e-caller w/remote so that you can focus a coyote's attention to a certain area away from yourself, to help keep your shooting position undetected?

And wouldn't having the coyote focus on the sound source be beneficial in luring the coyote to an area where a high % shot can be made, unbeknownst to said coyote? Heck, if ya did that, you could even go so far as to favor your rifle toward that general area so your movement is minimized when its time to shoot! Just thinkin' out loud here though...

So, what again about calling so loudly that a coyote can hear you a mile away? What if you want to make two 'quiet' stands to target that mile long patch of cover? Would you still keep the volume on MAX. for the first stand and potentially notify the coyotes further away than they'd be willing to commit from?

If a coyote is too far away to come to a call, and has some type of boundary (farmhouse, highway, river, open field, etc.) to navigate to get to your calling location, what is the benefit of that coyote hearing you in the first place? Wouldn't it make more sense to get closer, take that obstacle out of the equation, and call at a volume that won't initiate that same situation with a different coyote further away?

Can't you see the merits of calling softly and picking your way through patches of cover AT ALL?

Again, for conversation...
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 12, 2013, 07:22 AM:
 
Knockemdown,

We probably really should stop picking on Timmy. I mean he is after all, the last word in coyote calling.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 12, 2013, 08:25 AM:
 
Perhaps, Mr. Cronk.

But, I really don't have any animosity toward Tim. And I know my place here, amongst many of you gents who've been doing this since I was in diapers. So in truth, I'm actually being kinda selfish by trying to generate some dialogue to further myself along on the learning curve...

One thing I try NOT to be is closed minded about my approach to calling. And I'm trying real hard to justify how calling LOUD would be a benefit here in relatively thick cover/terrain, but I'm failing to do so. Hence, the questions to its biggest proponent, who seems so convinced that his blanket calling technique is a cookie cutter fit to everywhere in the country. I've only called coyotes in 11 states, so don't have much to go on, for comparative purposes...
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 12, 2013, 08:31 AM:
 

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only blanked on two stands of all Ive made.

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Ha! I knew if I kept at it, someday I'd be as good as Vic. Hell, turns out I might be better. I can do that in an hour's time.
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 12, 2013, 11:30 AM:
 
As to the amount of volume used, I think it has a lot to do with the weather, the terrain, and the direction you like to call. If you call quartering with the wind, which is my preference, and it is good and cold, coyotes will respond from tremendous distances using low volume. I can't say much about calling into the wind, as I seldom do that.

[ February 12, 2013, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Possumal ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 12, 2013, 11:30 AM:
 
Jim; this morning will teach me to keep my mouth shut from now on. Nasty ass weather yesterday evening, then a light dusting of snow this morning, calm, clear, just one of those mornings that scream coyotes and my expectations were very high.....I couldn't buy one, saw nothing but pretty country.
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 12, 2013, 12:16 PM:
 
Lol to AZ's post....I get laughed at cause I personally just pick a spot, sit down and call. And....wait for it....wind direction be damned on a lot of stands.. Been doing that for over 25 years. I dont walk around for 5 minutes trying to decide where to put a caller, decoy or any other shit, although I have done plenty of that. What a waste of time imo mostly. Guys that go with me have in their minds that every stand has to be a big production like they see on TV shows. I shoot plenty of coyotes fox and cats and spend less time doing it than most guys I know. I just personally do better when I keep things simple and keep moving. Im a little impatient maybe?
Mark
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 12, 2013, 02:17 PM:
 
LoneHowl,

You nailed it! All you have to do is watch a few video's of the "experts" in action in order to figure out that it is all about WHERE you call and very little about HOW you call. In those places you see in the video's, you could call em by squeazing a rubber ducky.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 12, 2013, 04:37 PM:
 
Rich;
I don't know about a rubber ducky, but I used to have a dog squeeky toy shaped like a pork-chop on my lanyard. It was always good for a cheap laugh. (It worked, too.)
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 12, 2013, 04:52 PM:
 
BwaaHaaa. i'm sure after meeting you, they just want you get the fuck out of there.

Try knocking on more doors.. Thats how I do it. If you do a good enough job some of the land owners will pass your name on to others which equals more land access.

[ February 12, 2013, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 12, 2013, 05:02 PM:
 
So, what again about calling so loudly that a coyote can hear you a mile away? What if you want to make two 'quiet' stands to target that mile long patch of cover? Would you still keep the volume on MAX. for the first stand and potentially notify the coyotes further away than they'd be willing to commit from?
i don't think boy wonder gets to far from the road Fred.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 12, 2013, 05:45 PM:
 
BearHunter,

I have experience with several different models from FoxPro, and never saw any need to call at FULL volume with any of them. The Fury never got much above half volume, and neither did the Scorpion when I had the 15 watt TOA speaker plugged in to it. Now my CS-24 would break the ear drums of a fifty yard coyote, and I'm sure that the old W.T. callers with the 30 watt TOA would also blow out the ears of a nearby coyote. I call pretty loud now mind you, but not THAT loud.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 12, 2013, 05:49 PM:
 
KOKO,

I am betting that if a guy could make a rubber ducky like mine, or a squeaking pork chop like yours squeak via remote control, we could hang em out fron some 30 yards or so and have a dandy decoy.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 12, 2013, 06:18 PM:
 
hey Rich, that was intended for Tim (boy wonder). sorry if you thought it was directed at you
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 12, 2013, 06:25 PM:
 

quote:

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Ryan, follow Tim's advice from a while back and find a gov't hunter to show you how to sneak in on coyotes and blow them out of the cover

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quote:

---

trying to generate some dialogue to further myself along on the learning curve...

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quote:

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One thing I try NOT to be is closed minded about my approach to calling.

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quote:

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coyotes will respond from tremendous distances using low volume. I can't say much about calling into the wind, as I seldom do that.

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quote:

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I dont walk around for 5 minutes trying to decide where to put a caller, decoy or any other shit, although I have done plenty of that. What a waste of time imo mostly. Guys that go with me have in their minds that every stand has to be a big production like they see on TV shows. I shoot plenty of coyotes fox and cats and spend less time doing it than most guys I know. I just personally do better when I keep things simple and keep moving.

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quote:

---

So, what again about calling so loudly that a coyote can hear you a mile away? What if you want to make two 'quiet' stands to target that mile long patch of cover? Would you still keep the volume on MAX.

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quote:

---

i don't think boy wonder gets to far from the road Fred.

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Atleast I walk out past a road culvert or right away..
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 12, 2013, 09:46 PM:
 
BearHunter,

No worries, I knew you were not aiming at me. I think my way of calling is more in line with your way of thinking. Common sense will take you a long way in the calling world.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2013, 06:56 AM:
 
Tim, ya just can't git yer tires outta the ruts, can ya?
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 13, 2013, 07:12 AM:
 

quote:

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Its a waste of time stopping every 1/4 to 1/2 mile to make a stand IMO...

---

just a couple of months ago, a friend and I left the truck on foot. We did one stand about 100 yards from the truck, it was hidden in an old out building, and called in a coyote. We then walked about 1/2 mile further north and made another stand and called in 2 coyotes. We then headed north west and walked another 1/2 mile and called in 3 coyotes. Then continued to walk west about another 1/2 mile and called in 2 coyotes. We then changed course and headed south about 1/2 mile and did a another stand and called in a single. Then another 1/2 mile and called in a pair. Then changed direction back to the east and stopped one last time and blanked.
So boy wonder, if I had just walked in to about the middle of the circle that we just walked would I have called in all 11 coyotes, and how many of them do you think we would've killed? And if I only got 2 or 3 killed, do you think I could've returned a few days later and called the rest back in?
For the record, we only killed 8 of the 11. Started at sunrise, back at the truck at 11 a.m.
I wasn't using full volume and think it would've been a dumb idea to think I could call all those coyotes to one stand and kill 8 of them.
Obviously full volume isn't for everyone all the time. It's called for at times, but I rarely use much over 1/2 volume. Each thier own.
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 13, 2013, 08:03 AM:
 
Full volume, half volume, quarter volume... Depending on which caller you're using, these values would be different. If I'm using a small caller, full volume may be quarter volume of a large call. And some of you are admittedly half deaf. If your call has no number value on the controller, who knows what you're blasting out.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2013, 08:18 AM:
 
TR, you get a HALLELUJAH for that!!!

 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 13, 2013, 08:40 AM:
 
TR.

Sounds like you call coyotes in a very similar fashion as I do, and like you it is a very effective and efficient way to kill them..T.A be damned lol

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 13, 2013, 09:51 AM:
 
Tim, I do know a lot about calling coyotes. That is why I seldom call into the wind.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2013, 10:00 AM:
 
Chad...

 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 13, 2013, 05:06 PM:
 

quote:

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So boy wonder, if I had just walked in to about the middle of the circle that we just walked would I have called in all 11 coyotes, and how many of them do you think we would've killed?

---

Proably none of them.

Don't know about you or others but I don't go into the middle of a group of coyotes and call, I work the fridges and then work my way into the area..
I had a hunt simular to your's and called at full volume bringing in singles, doubles and thriples. Had just a few get away but called and killed them the next day with the caller set on full volume.. So you see it canbe done either way, with my way fewer stands have to be made which leaves me more time for calling elsewhere.... Nice try but still proved nothing..
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 13, 2013, 05:43 PM:
 
They have 8 down and done by 11 am. Not much more calling to be done that day and they didn't waste gas going from spot to spot. Unless you're a glutton, I'd call that done for the day.
Proves quite a bit, to normal humans.

TA: Working the fridges and calling in thriples...

[ February 13, 2013, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 13, 2013, 07:06 PM:
 

quote:

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Proves quite a bit, to normal humans.

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quote:

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TA: Working the fridges and calling in thriples...

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Yeah! it was one of my first stands for the day, had one coyote laying up on the same hillside not far from me and a pr. comeing in from a drainage farther out.. Someone forgot to tell the coyote on the hillside to run in the oppisite direction cause the caller was too loud..
Yeah when coyotes are fetching 40.00-50.00 I canbe a glutton...
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 13, 2013, 07:38 PM:
 

quote:

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Proably none of them

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Unless, of course, I would've used full volume AND held the caller above my head and rotated it 360 degrees. Boy the action would've been good then hey?
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 13, 2013, 09:10 PM:
 
Smithers, you ought to be ashamed, taking advantage of the challenged and all.
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 14, 2013, 07:43 AM:
 
Jim, I try not to degrade TA too much, that's what he thrives on, and he will argue the most IGNORANT points for the sheer hell of it. (much like someone else I know)
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 16, 2013, 01:52 AM:
 

quote:

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Isn't one of the benefits of using an e-caller w/remote so that you can focus a coyote's attention to a certain area away from yourself, to help keep your shooting position undetected?

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quote:

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Heck, if ya did that, you could even go so far as to favor your rifle toward that general area so your movement is minimized when its time to shoot!

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quote:

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since that wide open country sucks volume up like a sponge. Heck, even a high powered rifle sounds like a pop gun in that vast expanse.

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quote:

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This is why I don't think that recommending using blaring volume ALL THE TIME is a wise decision. Comprehende?

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Useing one of the loudest sounds on a E-caller it only puts out 104 dbs with a reading taken right in front of the speaker. A hand call puts out roughly 80-90 dbs.
100 yds out you can take a reading on the same sound and it willbe roughly 25% less or equal to a handcall and you can subtract 5% loss for roughly every 50 yards out.. Also the sound willbe much less on the left or right side and also the backside of the caller.
Go back to the entry above where I place/point the caller to the direction I want them to come in from (kill area)..
Most callers set there caller out in front or off to one side pointed in a direction they hope that has a coyote that willbe inside the sound cone.. If a coyote does'nt hear it then its a dead stand, on the other hand if I don't have a coyote show after a certain amount of time I will readjust the direction I have to caller pointed in. (call whats there)
Now lets get to calling along some heavey cover, I may place the caller out in the open or I may not, don't want to risk haveing the coyote spot or hear me.. I don't point the center of the sound cone directly towards the heavey cover but out to one side, so you see the coyote is'nt effected by the maxed out volume due to being farther than 100 yds and by haveing the caller pointed in another direction.. The volume never changes on my stands, just the sounds I use...
I've hunted enough coyotes to know its pretty tough to get less than 100 yds. on a bedded coyote without them hearing you, they may not get up and leave right away but they do know you are there... I'm refering to heavey cover coyotes as coyotes bedded in the open will know you are there when you hit the 1/4 mile mark in most cases and with some type of cover between you and the coyote..
Anyway the callers position is more important to me than how loud its playing.. Comprehende?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 16, 2013, 08:38 AM:
 
"I like to set up with the caller next to me as with my coyotes they will approach the caller somewhere in the center of the sound cone and in a position I want them for when I take the shot."
-----------------------------------------
Hmmmmmmmm, if I used my remote controlled caller like THAT, I would simply sell the dang thing and go back to using my hand calls.
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 16, 2013, 09:42 AM:
 
Put a dam spellin buton on her. This bord is turnin redneck more n more.
mArk

[ February 16, 2013, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 16, 2013, 12:30 PM:
 
Yeah, it's them damned Okies what do un it! (edit: to the Bord)

[ February 16, 2013, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 16, 2013, 01:10 PM:
 
And a spellin' button don't do nuthin' for those who are happy to be ignorant.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 16, 2013, 03:16 PM:
 
No No Leonard, not Okies. Everyone just messing with the coyote calling Motor scooter from Meanasotee. You know the one.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 16, 2013, 03:50 PM:
 
My cipherin is goood enuff as long as i don't have to goes past 20.
But honestly i had an early version of Microsoft Word, one of the flawed ones. I embarassed myself eeeee - nuff using it that i'm gunshy of any spellun help, including Apple/Mac versions.
But that is half the fun in readun this call debate'(s).
Now my take on call volume. When you are in open spaces i personally think more volume is better. And when calling in smaller areas valleys and areas with lots of trees around i like less noise. And for the record, i have used cellophane many many times (rabbit distress) and prefer the plastic wrapper thats used on the packs of peanutbutter & crackers sold in quick stops over glad wrap.
Now everyone can say the Prune Picker is full of shit and everyone will be correct.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 16, 2013, 04:20 PM:
 

quote:

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Now everyone can say the Prune Picker is full of shit and everyone will be correct.

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quote:

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Hmmmmmmmm, if I used my remote controlled caller like THAT, I would simply sell the dang thing and go back to using my hand calls.

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I would too, only problem is don't know of too many call makers that make a good one.. Oh yeah there are some that work well in a area thats over run with coyotes but they also lack as far as volume goes..
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 16, 2013, 05:05 PM:
 
T.A I would too, only problem is don't know of too many call makers that make a good one.. Oh yeah there are some that work well in a area thats over run with coyotes but they also lack as far as volume goes..

BULLSHIT !!!!!!

Good Hunting Chad

[ February 16, 2013, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 16, 2013, 05:14 PM:
 
Timmy,
If you tried a 2013 Cronk KILLER CALL, and coyote howler, you may change your mind. But then again, even a GOOD call requires a bit of practice and the ability to hear the sounds well enough to know whether or no they are blowing realistic sounding screams or coyote vocals. I don't mean that in a smart arse way either. I know you have said that your hearing is greatly diminished, and that would be a handicap for you when blowing mouth blown calls. On another note, I have come to believe that a lot of folks are "tone deaf". In other words, they are unable to tell one tone from another. I think maybe that is why so many callers can not tell a friendly howl from an angry howl. These folks would be the ones who truly need recordings of live coyotes that are then played over a good quality speaker like a TOA. W.T. has a few good coyote vocals, and I believe our own Cal Taylor has some that are even better. Cal has sent a few of those sounds to FoxPro. I have some of Cals sounds on my CS-24, and I would love to have every coyote vocal that Cal has recorded.

Now even those who have a good quality caller and some good coyote vocals will need to know how to use those vocals and when.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 16, 2013, 05:38 PM:
 
I have some of your howlers Rich.
Also I have a hearing loss but I'm not tone deaf and can tell the difference between a friendly howl or angry howl (aggressive)..
Not all but most of the hand calls I have used are high maintence and like I mentioned not as loud as a E-caller and I also admitt there are some sounds I can't make with a hand-call and most likely due to not trying very hard.. I'm used to the E-call and it fits my style of calling very well so I just keep on keeping on with it..
I did a contest once and someone mentioned the sounds I use are pretty close to what the WT makes so I don't think my hearing is that bad...LOL I've gone so far as to call some of my coyotes in with hand calls and a howler of my own design but the E-call just does a better job of it...
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 16, 2013, 05:52 PM:
 
That is good enough for me Tim!
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 16, 2013, 06:54 PM:
 
Rich, do you build a Challenge Howler that will double as a locator, "if" i get good enough to use for both from one call.? I have two seperate packs that overlap my hunting area. I just came in from my evening walk. Both packs were active just before dark, but were keeping their distance due to the light. With this moon phase and north wind i need a little more volume to piss them off with me hunting from the south.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 16, 2013, 07:34 PM:
 
I called a timid or smart female this morning using Cals vocals. I don't normally want aggressive howls and today reminded me of that. Anyway, she came out of the tree line at 310 yards but would come no closer. I was sitting in a way that I just couldn't get steady on her head which was about all I could see through the weeds.

I tried to coax her with rabbit distress and she had heard that one before and disappeared. I had it playing at half volume. I gave it a few minutes and tried some whimpers, she had circled to get downwind and was just peeking out of the brush now and then. Then went to Cals pup screams and here she come a running. Never used full volume but she didn't need it.

Did pretty good on my cats this week and being greedy I made cat stands the rest of the morning. Prey distress just ain't doing it right now on the coyotes and Cals vocals are. That's why I use an e-caller.

Oh and I had to shoot her twice with the 204 but that was my fault. I shot her on the run and hit her too far back. She didn't get up but I wasn't gonna give her a chance.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 16, 2013, 07:46 PM:
 
Tom did you try the new scope? I could have used it this evening.
The pack i was messing with was up by the pond about 450yds from my bullet stop (north by east).
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 16, 2013, 08:02 PM:
 
Ya I did Mike, love it. The dot is fully visible in the daylight, was 3 clicks low and 4 clicks right, right out of the box. FOV is unreal and on 6x I was hitting any piece of clay pigeon I tried at the 200 yard line.

In case the rest of you are wondering, I got a new Leupold VX6 1-6 for my machine gun.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 16, 2013, 08:06 PM:
 
Also fire formed 50 Lapua 243AI cases, looks like the new barrel is gonna shoot.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 16, 2013, 08:21 PM:
 
I was looking for one last night. I think Brownells is the only place to list one in stock. (scope)
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 16, 2013, 08:45 PM:
 
Prune Picker

Take a look at the photo in "Calls and Howlers" thread. Bison Howler. It is exactly what you need.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 16, 2013, 09:04 PM:
 
Well make up your mind Rich. Last time you said this is what we need.



It does make some great howls female/YOY, but you did'nt hear it from me.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 16, 2013, 09:22 PM:
 
Thanks guys, i will be in contact Rich. I know i have your web site saved because i was just on it.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 16, 2013, 09:23 PM:
 
And Tim that is a good looking call.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 16, 2013, 09:30 PM:
 
Tim I used to think you were just messing with people for fun but its pretty clear you're just a dick.

Congrats.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 16, 2013, 09:36 PM:
 
I'm not following you Tom?????
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 17, 2013, 06:20 AM:
 
Tim.
That howler in your photo looks like a good one alright, but that one is sold.

Prune Picker,
Ordering from my site won't work for the howler in that photo I posted here. My site shows a different price for the howlers, and it ad's 15.00 for shipping. If you have PayPal we can make it work though. Personal checks also work at Cronk's.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 17, 2013, 01:57 PM:
 
Okay I've HAD ENOUGH!!!

TA "I like to set up with the caller next to me as with my coyotes they will approach the caller somewhere in the center of the sound cone and in a position I want them for when I take the shot.."

Sound emanates 360 degrees from it's source, so no matter what Tim says, there is no such thing as a "sound cone" (outside of Maxwell Smart's Cone of silence).

TA "Useing one of the loudest sounds on a E-caller it only puts out 104 dbs with a reading taken right in front of the speaker. A hand call puts out roughly 80-90 dbs.

Now this, firstly, implies Tim knows how to operate a sound meter, which he proved all too well he isn't very good at (*remember, he also said that his e-caller is louder than a rifle).

And as the link I provided during that fiasco states "differences of 10-20 dB(a) are imperceptible" so that even the (supposed) loudest e-caller sounds barely differ from those of handcalls (*which, again, these results and figures born of flawed use of both, the meter, and the testing parameters, should hold no weight).

So according to Tim... the bulk of most e-caller sounds are, functionally, equally as loud as the bulk of most hand call sounds... another Tim myth, busted... by Tim!

TA "100 yds out you can take a reading on the same sound and it willbe roughly 25% less or equal to a handcall and you can subtract 5% loss for roughly every 50 yards out.."

Nothing in Tim's testing indicated a linear loss of sound, as he claims, so this is yet another "fact" pulled from out of nowhere.

Sounds, of for instance a gunshot, audible for (again, supposedly) 5 miles or more indicate Tim's math skills aren't any better than his spelling skills.

A 25% loss over 100 yards would, actually, be a loss of 5% for every 20 yards... meaning that a 100dB(a) sound would be "gone" in 400 yards... and we all know that ain't right!
Sound loss is actually exponential, that's why we can still hear the gunshot from so far away (*in open country).

TA "Go back to the entry above where I place/point the caller to the direction I want them to come in from (kill area).."

This is yet another example of Tim's bending, twisting, or mutilating, his statements to suit the moment.

Tim has, far too many times to count, advocated the bucket-head approach of swinging the speaker in all directions for me to now believe he leaves it pointed in any given direction (and I will NEVER be convinced that sound doesn't go out from said speaker in all directions, to begin with).

TA "I would too, only problem is don't know of too many call makers that make a good one.. Oh yeah there are some that work well in a area thats over run with coyotes but they also lack as far as volume goes.."

I'm with Chad... bullshit!

We've already established, here, that hand calls and e-callers are close enough to the same in volume/amplitude to say "there's no real difference".

Hardly anybody comes from an area with less coyotes than I did, and I was able to call more than a few coyotes (as well as 'cats, lions, and bears) with hand calls, and low volume e-callers.
Not a lot, I'll admit... but it DID happen (*and not just to me).

And Tim goes back and forth as the need arises, saying this guy, or that guy, and even I, make calls of quality that suited his needs and wants... now, in this discussion that no longer fits into Tim's argument, so he chooses to ignore his own previous statements and classifies hand calls as "worthless".

TA " I've gone so far as to call some of my coyotes in with hand calls and a howler of my own design..."

So... now ol' Tim is a call designer, and one that's better than all others no less??? LOL

I don't even know where to start with that, beyond being fully and completely insulted... and yet fully and completely amused at the same time.
Tim is no more a call maker/designer, than he is a scientist. Hahaha

I've heard his hand calling on his shitty videos, and his calling was equally shitty (IMO).

We haven't seen "Mr (whatever) Calling Contest" as his sig line, so I doubt he won these supposed calling contests, nor have we ever heard mention of these contests before now, or he'd have blown that horn all over the internet too.
It's all a little too convenient for me.

TA "but the E-call just does a better job of it..."

That's a mouthful, and an earful, there...

I have a pretty good idea why hand calls don't work for Tim, and why they do work for Chad, and Leonard, and Rich Cronk, and Bofire, and Tony Jones, and even Tim's old favorite call maker (he now disses) Arky Yoter... the list could go on and on...

Some fair weather friend Tim is.

TA"Anyway the callers position is more important to me than how loud its playing.."

Then why page upon page of you saying full volume is the ONLY way it should be done, and anyone who doesn't follow suit is WRONG???
*Why didn't you STFU, and let it go, pages ago???

Tim,

Just because "maybe" is a word, doesn't mean every word there is, followed by the word "be" is a word... canbe, isn't... willbe, isn't either..."maybe" is the only word, I know of, that contracts in that manner.

And as any fourth grader knows, when a word ending in "e" (following a consonant) has "ing" added to the end the "e" is dropped, making the word "makeing" or "comeing" also not words.

A "thriple" isn't a word (triple is)... "fridges" hold food and beer, the fringes are edges.

Do us all a favor, and get a spell checker (*there's one built in to the Firefox browser...it even helps you correct your spelling).

Your spelling, though, isn't what makes you look like an idiot.... being an idiot is what really makes you look like an idiot.

Do us all another favor, while you're at it, and quit being an asshole (or a dick, as Tom called you... rather appropriately).

Leonard may not be willing to ban you, like just about every other site I can think of has... but you're dragging this place down with your bullshit (*not unlike I used to.... BUT I got better about it).

Kokopelli started this thread in an effort to get away from all the bullshit, and you drove into it with a truckload full!

Somehow though, I doubt you'll ever be able to be a better you and/or grow the fuck up.

Go ahead now, prove me right, with a big long post saying how you're right and everyone else is wrong...

Krusty
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 17, 2013, 03:17 PM:
 
How about if he changed his proven fact, to opinion?

I must have a high tolerance for bullshit because Tim has not pissed me off and that's why I choose not to ban him. It may be that I get some kind of thrill up my leg knowing that he pisses everybody else off?

But, unlike some others, I think he tries to contribute in the best way he knows how. And like some wise sage once said, it's your job to separate the pepper from the fly shit.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 17, 2013, 04:12 PM:
 
I gotta admit that I would love to see the results of somebody that knows their way around a decible meter setting an e-caller out on a dry lake bed on a calm day and taking readings 360* around it.........and if it's not too much trouble repeating on a day with a moderate breeze calling up wind, down wind & cross wind.
We `might` settle this cone of sound thing once and for all.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 17, 2013, 04:42 PM:
 
Leonard,

That's completely your prerogative and I'd be a complete hypocrite to ask you to do otherwise now.

But I can tell you, as one of Tim's biggest foes, that I probably get e-mails about Tim as often as you do.

Just as often I have to try and convince these people not to leave on account of Tim's bullshit. I feel like we owe it to you, given the freedoms we're granted here.
Unfortunately, I haven't always been successful.

And I know some people might say "good riddance" ...but I myself am at a point where Tim has taken most of the "entertainment value" from the place, and often times I no longer want to participate.

I don't think Tim's contributions serve anyone but Tim, anymore... even when he offers useful information, he does so in a snide and condescending way...
Like Tom stated Tim's just being a dick, lately, though I disagree in that I think Tim enjoys it way too much.

Would I be a less pissed off at Tim if he changed his so-called facts to an opinion, sure, of course I would... but not by much.

Moreover, though, if Tim would ever admit to being wrong about anything... or admit to not knowing everything about everything... or maybe just keep his big fat mouth shut once in a while... we'd likely all be a little less irritated by him.

Do I have a personal ax or two to grind with Tim, yes I do, I'd be every bit the liar he is if I failed to admit that... but that's not what this is about.
This is about Tim's lack of respect for you and many of the members of this site, other than just me, and Rich Cronk in particular.

I took Scott's thread about "prostitutes" to heart.

I probably never would have stuck with it long enough to have ever bagged a coyote, without your support and encouragement (as well as others, to numerous to mention).

I wouldn't have the love I have for call making, or the skill, nor would I be as generous with knowledge, calls, or materials, if it weren't for the examples set for me, by Rich.

Tim, on the other hand, is (to me) the most ungrateful prostitute there of all, and like I recently stated I don't expect it'll be long before (like Tony Tebbe) he tries to cash in on that.

We've done our dead level best to run him off... but he's winning, and running us off instead.

Hopefully he'll take this as constructive criticism, and he'll improve himself and maybe even his life, like I have (despite the fact he doesn't seem to think I have)... but I ain't holding my breath.

Kokopelli,

I too would like to see those results, but I can tell you, born of my own experience using a decibel meter to monitor the "noise" of motorcycles, that there is very little difference from when they are approaching to when they are going away from you *in that "imperceptible" 10-20 decibel range **as long as you're more than, say, 20 yards from it. In other words, yeah it sounds way louder on the end the speaker is facing, from up close, but less so when the speaker is out there a ways *which Tim admits he doesn't do, so he has a skewed perception of the sound's physical capabilities.

I don't think we could or can expect the type of objectivity from Tim that these results require.
He has an agenda, and that's clear... to promote his own cause (even if that means changing the "facts" as needed), and to show how much smarter he (*believes he) is than the rest of the world.

Tundra Wookie might be our best bet, as field tech... he could do this testing with several different brands and models, on a frozen lake, where the air density would enhance any differences.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 17, 2013, 05:25 PM:
 
Great posts, Krusty. You're well spoken and have a great way with words. You're writing style is impeccable. I wish I could articulate like that. You eviscerated Tim very nicely and I enjoyed it!
I also vote for TundraWookie!

[ February 17, 2013, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2013, 05:32 PM:
 
Koko useing a sound meter is'nt that difficult once you are familiar with it and how the fuctions work on it. At the start of my project I was useing the right setting for testing the sound comeing out of a E-caller but when I went to check how loud a rifle report is I did'nt know I had to change the setting from "B" to "C" due to the sound comeing from a rifle being very short/fast, all the "C" setting does is speed up the mic. so it can gather all of the rifles report in a short amount of time in order to measure it. No matter what setting you use it will still give you the same pattern of varis sounds, and the settings just lower or increase the dbs reading is all.
There is also and instruction book that comes with it that tells you what setting you need to use, I just did'nt read all of it at the time thinking it was'nt that important...
There are a few members here that do have a sound meter besides me that they use to compare the loundness of varis calls and tone boards.
But I won't ask them to come and defend me in some stupid pissing match, I don't work that way..

All my testing was done on two different days useing the same sounds and dureing a calm day and a day with a little wind and the test was done out in the open on a football field..
The loudness of the sound does travel in all four directions but not at the same level and the farther you move away the lower the dbs get. Plain and simple.
There was a small storage building out by the football field and I took readings from behind it as well to see if there is a difference. (simulates being behind a hill)
The meter also picks up most tone levels of a certain sound and the farther you move from the sound source parts of the sound wave will fall apart, deeper sounds and some higher pitches will still be picked up.. In other words if useing a cotton-tail recording and a coyote is more than a mile away its only hearing bits and pieces of the cotton-tail screams, kind of like a person with hearing loss...

As far as Krusty, no I don't have any agenda just trying to give others a understanding of how sound travels and how it can affect there stands and perhaps answer why some coyotes come in and some don't, or why from another direction than planned, along with how important it is to where you place the caller and what direction it faces..
Get off you lazey ass and get a sound meter so you can atleast prove what I'm saying is B.S. or is'nt as at the moument you proved nothing.....

quote:

---

We've done our dead level best to run him off... but he's winning, and running us off instead.

---

Hopefuly just you Krusty, don't understand why you hang out on this board. You don't or can't call coyotes,You don't hunt much of anything else, you make some calls but IMO they are'nt that great. Never heard of anyone winning a calling contest with one.

[ February 17, 2013, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 17, 2013, 06:00 PM:
 
Very well put, K. I've lost count of the number of threads I've just walked away from reading, let alone posting on, because Tim was there. You have framed the issues involving Tim quite well.

As far as the decibels issue, IMO, the entire subject is bullshit. We debate and discuss this issue like it even matters when it comes to coyotes.

Two seasons ago, I was hunting "The Gallery" with my partner, Kevin. We were in our regular positions of elevation and calling into a 30 mph south wind. I had a coyote hunkered down, head only showing, in a small cluster of sunflowers 200 yards upwind of me. I was throwing all my loudest, lowest pitched sounds at him and all he gave me in return was an occasional look-see. Had him in the scope the whole time just trying to get him to stand up and give me a bigger target. I tried everything until I switched to dueling cottontails, a sound on my caller that has to be one of the softest and highest pitched sounds on the unit. Despite the fact that I could not hardly hear the caller ten yards to the side of it, that coyote lept to its feet as soon as the sound reached him and came in on a wire despite the 25-20 mph wind blowing the sound away from him, and he died at the bottom of the hill.

What's the point?

Three of them.

First, a coyote's sense of hearing is far better than any of us can imagine. That hair nin his ear serves more than for insulation. Like the serrated leading edge of an owl's wing, those hairs break up the air passing into the air from the wind lessening, if not eliminating , that annoying buffeting caused by the wind.

Second, I run my caller loud more for my benefit than for the coyote's, because I'm damned near deaf.

And third, that coyote isn't gonna respond unless he wants to, even when he can hear it fine. This morning, from the same exact spot at "the gallery" I had a nice pale coyote come in to 300 yards and lay down with a clump of brush blocking view of him from a nearby road. He curled up in a ball and would give us the occasional raise of his head and stink eye, but if we hadn't seen him come in and lay down, we'd have never known he was there. he never did close the gap. he could hear me fine. he just didn't give a shit, whether I ran the sounds loud, soft or somewhere in between and I don't care what Tim says, he didn't want to come on in and he wasn't gonna do it.

Think what you want, Tim, but I'll remind you that I get paid for my opinion.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2013, 06:21 PM:
 
I'm confused, Was it a 30 mph wind or was it 25-20 mph wind.

Second of all the coyote was with-in 200 yds, correct? If so it heard your caller it just did'nt like the sound you played at the time..
I think most would agree that they have called in coyotes by just switching caller sounds, I know I have..
Your sound willbe weaker at the up wind side but still there.. I know this cause I tested it on a meter..
I don't know how far a coyote can hear certain sounds, just know the sound gets weaker the farther out it travels and with the wind blowing in a coyotes ears can also reduce how much or how far it can hear it..
On windy days I use certain sounds that carry better than others, you can tell that by the number of responses you get or have and I'm sure there are other callers that have a few favorite sounds for windy days as well.. Why is it???
I've also had coyotes out there aways (about 1 mile) that showed no interest in what sound I was playing at the time, most guys would of gave up and just thought the coyote was'nt hungry.. I changed to a sound that carries better and made a adjustment of where the caller was pointed and in they come... Why is that????

Edit to add: My opinions are free, takem or leavem..

[ February 17, 2013, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 17, 2013, 06:29 PM:
 
well said guys!! :)i too have seen the light... Tim is a 1 man(himself) super star.
i also have got a few P.M.'s and phone calls about him lately. ai'nt good
and no Tim, you do not live in Mankato, bit farther west i hear the coyotes are thick near you... might come down some day to shoot a few
if everyone on this site were asked what color is, i figger we'd all say red.. i suspect prick boy would for sure come up with an argument.
hey Leonard, perhaps you could add an "ignore this user" 's post feature????.
for the love of God, at least think about it

[ February 17, 2013, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2013, 06:35 PM:
 

quote:

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i hear the coyotes are thick near you... might come down some day to shoot a few

---

Yeah we have a fare amount cause we manage them so we have just as many for the next season. You should try it, then maybe you would'nt have to go out to N.D to kill a few.. As for hunting here good luck with that, all the good spots are taken, which is another reason we have some..

quote:

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perhaps you could add an "ignore this user" 's post feature

---

How hard can it be to just look away??? LMAO...

[ February 17, 2013, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 17, 2013, 06:39 PM:
 
Damn, Tim. I've typed and re-typed witty responses, but I just can't match your rapier wit, so I think I'll just log out and spend a couple weeks at the Proferssor's board. There, or PM. Anyplace has to be better than having Tim squat and take a shit in the middle of every damned thread posted.
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 17, 2013, 06:49 PM:
 
TA, most people that join Sound Contests are paid by a company that makes calls or they make their own calls, and/ or they are paid by a company and use other ppl's calls for a sound or two on the sly.

I'm sure if there was a hand call jackrabbit sound-a-like contest, either Krusty's or Lance's calls would be first and second. It's a toss up and I wouldn't want to judge that contest; too close to call.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on February 17, 2013, 06:56 PM:
 

quote:

---

Yeah we have a fare amount cause we manage them so we have just as many for the next season. You should try it......

---

Let me guess, you only kill mature males(shooters), a select number of females and YOU impose limits....LOL!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2013, 07:11 PM:
 
No Geordie its not that complicated, we just take so many from a given area and then move on to other areas holding good numbers or leave a certain area alone due to its low numbers.. Coyotes here are'nt a threat to livestock or family pets so we can afford to leave a few behind and the farmers don't care if we do.. We have some areas that fill in rather quickly so we try to take more out of them if possable...
In the area that fills in quickly most of these coyotes come off the river bottom and are'nt ours to begin with so no harm if we take a few extra.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 17, 2013, 07:26 PM:
 
Do we have grounds for adjudication here? If so shall we procede with a pronouncement of judgement based on evidence presented?
Just saying...............
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 17, 2013, 07:36 PM:
 
Tim the Coyote Whisper. LMAO
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on February 17, 2013, 07:42 PM:
 
and you go so S.D., why.. you stupid ignorant fuck!!

Yeah we have a fare amount cause we manage them so we have just as many for the next season.

another T.A. post for the archives
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 17, 2013, 07:42 PM:
 
Tim,

I knew you couldn't leave this alone...

Considering you're still making the same spelling mistakes, you obviously didn't take the time to read and/or comprehend much of what I took a great deal of time and care to write. Your loss.

You state that you don't bother with instruction manuals, because you think you're smarter than that.
You need to go back and re-read that sound levels thread, because in it Nikon and I showed that the meter you BORROWED doesn't have a wide enough range of monitored frequencies...

N "
The frequency range is very limited, 31.5Hz to 8KHz, far less than even a human can hear.

Kk "
EVERY SINGLE BIT OF THE RANGE OF A CANINE'S HEARING ABILITY, FALLS OUTSIDE THAT OF YOUR METER!
A coyote cannot hear what your meter can!

*Though in hindsight we did learn that a canine's hearing may be a bit wider range than the information I first found and quoted... BUT!

Whatever meter whoever uses will have to be able to monitor ALL of the frequencies in question, and the entire range of frequencies in canine hearing, not just part of them (as yours did).

You've already more than proven you're full of shit... you don't need any help from me.

What we need, or what Kokopelli desires, is someone honest and intelligent to do this test in a controlled manner, in the terrain and conditions he and I mentioned. You and I are far to connected with the issue, and our personal bullshit, to do that *You're obviously not smart (or unbiased) enough, and I'm pretty far from a dry lake bed or a frozen lake here.

And I doubt any of these imaginary members using dB(a) meters would come to you aid, because you've dissed them over and over (*as you have pretty much all call makers).

Don't be a chickenshit, name them... but I suspect, just like you couldn't name anyone who has calls I made but were unwilling to use them (because they were substandard), I suspect you can't and won't name these supposed "members" either.

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on you, on that one too.

TA "As far as Krusty, no I don't have any agenda just trying to give others a understanding of how sound travels...

You can't give away something you don't have.

And I disagree, and still believe, that everything you post is agenda based.

Once again, you've shown how little you know about me, but, that you're more than willing to make it up as you go.

I am an avid and accomplished waterfowler (both as a caller and a shooter). I've proven to be a proficient, though somewhat reluctant, deer hunter, as well. I've hunted pheasant, more than proficiently, too *even "guided" a few youth hunts, ending up with very happy kids at the end of them.

I'm not lazy, I tried explaining that to you (nicely) before... but you're too stupid to read and comprehend that.

I was here before you were, and I'll be here long after you finally get a clue that you're not part of this community (as long as you continue to be an unbending island unto yourself).

And, again, your reading comprehension falls short again... I just told you I have called coyotes, I just don't have a great record of killing them (*and that's not all my fault, not to lay it on Red, or any of my other calling partners, but I didn't miss 'em all myself, and there were more than a few we hit and never recovered).

And despite my bad back, and the fact that I can barely walk some days, I have been calling several times lately (with my camera) *in the only place I've ever been with fewer coyotes than we had back home.
I don't brag about my hunts the way you do, but I haven't done too bad here.

TA "you make some calls but IMO they are'nt that great...

Once again you are twisting the facts (or your opinion) and ignoring and contradicting your own previous statements...

TA "Krusty: I just got home from camp-out and found the package sitting on the table from you. I played a few notes through it and was really surprised. I like it and willbe carrying it with me when i'm out calling. Job well done sir and i tip my hat to you." *1

TA " I was out useing the call today Krusty. I like it alot and i will continue to use it. My THANKS to you." *2

Well... we can see how much "down the road" value there is in your thanks, and your opinions, can't we.

*And don't accuse me of making that shit up, like you have in the past! My integrity is a lot higher than that.... and don't go editing it either, because I'll provide links to those threads at the end of my post.

TA "Never heard of anyone winning a calling contest with one."

Neither have I, nor do I give a fat rat's ass.

I don't care about calling contests, I care about the hundred and hundreds of coyotes killed by happy customers and recipients of gifted calls.

*But, Tyler Higgins did use his dad's call to place 9th in the world calling contest, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

You're the only one with enough gall to bitch about the gift you received in the spirit of friendship *after you accepted it with the same spirit.
You do so out of spite, now, and that just shows how dishonest and immature you are.

Let's not forget... "A poor workman blames his tools".

C "I've lost count of the number of threads I've just walked away from reading, let alone posting on, because Tim was there. You have framed the issues involving Tim quite well.

You see Tim I'm not alone in feeling like you have worn out your welcome here.

Even those, like Lance, that may share the opinions you have on volume, can't stand your bullshit anymore.

As for why I still hang out here, it's because I learned to tone down my own bullshit, and my friends here welcome me, for my insight, my honesty, my pluck, and my ability to take it all in stride and try to be a better person... most of all, I believe, when comparing myself to you, for my humility.

To quote one of my favorite songs, "I know I'm stupid, so I must be smarter than you!"

Krusty

Links;

*1

*2
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2013, 08:31 PM:
 

quote:

---

Considering you're still making the same spelling mistakes, you obviously didn't take the time to read and/or comprehend much of what I took a great deal of time and care to write.

---

quote:

---

because in it Nikon and I showed that the meter you BORROWED doesn't have a wide enough range of monitored frequencies...

---

quote:

---

EVERY SINGLE BIT OF THE RANGE OF A CANINE'S HEARING ABILITY, FALLS OUTSIDE THAT OF YOUR METER!
A coyote cannot hear what your meter can!

---

quote:

---

Whatever meter whoever uses will have to be able to monitor ALL of the frequencies in question, and the entire range of frequencies in canine hearing, not just part of them (as yours did).

---

quote:

---

You've already more than proven you're full of shit

---

quote:

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I'm pretty far from a dry lake bed or a frozen lake here.

---

quote:

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And I doubt any of these imaginary members using dB(a) meters would come to you aid, because you've dissed them over and over (*as you have pretty much all call makers).

---

quote:

---

just like you couldn't name anyone who has calls I made but were unwilling to use them (because they were substandard), I suspect you can't and won't name these supposed "members" either.

---

quote:

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And I disagree, and still believe, that everything you post is agenda based.

---

Nope! Just chit-chat to pass the time...

quote:

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I am an avid and accomplished waterfowler (both as a caller and a shooter).

---

Ducks and geese was my bread and butter before coyotes and I can tell you are neither of which you just claimed. If you was you would of been a much better coyote caller..

quote:

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Once again you are twisting the facts (or your opinion) and ignoring and contradicting your own previous statements...

TA "Krusty: I just got home from camp-out and found the package sitting on the table from you. I played a few notes through it and was really surprised. I like it and willbe carrying it with me when i'm out calling. Job well done sir and i tip my hat to you." *1

---

quote:

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You're the only one with enough gall to bitch about the gift you received in the spirit of friendship

---

quote:

---

To quote one of my favorite songs

---

Mine is "Another one bites the dust" hey hey!
and #16,8,6,4 from the "Eagle sound track"..
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 17, 2013, 10:56 PM:
 
TA "Most of what you wrote is B.S. so I used the ignor feature by simply looking on, not that hard to do,,LOL"

CS "Great posts, Krusty. You're well spoken and have a great way with words. You're writing style is impeccable.

C "Very well put, K. ...You have framed the issues involving Tim quite well.

TB "well said guys!! :)i too have seen the light..."

It looks like you're alone in thinking what I wrote was bullshit.

What you chose to do is ignore what I wrote... and that's ignorant.

TA "For those not familur with a sound meter it works very simular to Goldwave, check it out.."

The words are "familiar" and "similar"...

And no the meter doesn't work anything like Goldwave, it only measures decibels, not frequencies or spectral input/outputs.

TA "Once again it picks up everything goldwave does if the meter is missing a certian high level or low level part of a sound so is goldwave"

The word is "certain"...

Goldwave's range of frequencies goes from 20 hertz to 20 kilohertz, about the range of human hearing...

Your meter... "The frequency range is very limited, 31.5Hz to 8KHz" which is far short of Goldwave's frequency capabilities.

TA "So in other words the meter is picking up what the caller puts out and thats what I base my findings on.."

No your findings are incorrect, because your meter doesn't pick up much of the full spectral range of an e-caller or a handcall.

Your meter is "hearing impaired" just like you.

So...you're wrong, again.

TA "You have'nt tried the meter with E-caller sounds and volume settings so you proved nothing..."

I don't have to try the meter, all I have to do is pick apart your statements, proving you have no clue what you're doing... which is really easy.

TA "I don't consider you a call maker but more of a wantabe if anything.."

The word is "wannabe".

Your opinion of what I am carries no weight.

Callers that actually use handcalls I've made them, and other prominent call makers, consider my work to be excellent.

Red always says "you can't mess with results" and hundreds of dead predators are results you can't deny or degrade.

I'm proud of my accomplishments, as a call maker.

You... will never change that.

TA "Your just pissed cause I don't use your call."

Nope, I'm actually glad you don't... it might actually produce for you, and I don't want that.

I was pissed that you gave your word, and then went back on it. And I'm actually over that part of all this.

I can make more, and I do.

I think you're pissed, and jealous, that other people love 'em. lol

TA "No I won't, but I thought it was kind of funny when I saw them laying at the bottom of some box filled with other calls twice..LOL

Without proof, this is just another one of your juvenile tantrums, and a fabrication at best.

Man up, and say who it is, or shut the fuck up.

I know there are people who feel that the calls I made them are too "nice" to take hunting... maybe that's the case here, and you're making up reasons of your own?

Either way, I don't believe you.

TA "I remember at one of the camp outs,Higgy was walking around with one of your calls with one reed removed, not much talk about it..

Again, you're just making shit up, based on nothing having been said to you... here's what Rich had to say about his call;

RH "Subtle elegance is the only way I can think to describe this call. It reminds me of an English Leather advertisement. The simplistic design belies the thought and time that was obviously invested in this piece.
I know that you put a little heart and soul into this call. I'll bet it was hard to part with it. It will be valued and appreciated."

And, Rich's opinion hasn't changed like yours has, he told me a couple weeks ago "the call is a favorite" of his, and we're in the process of getting those reeds replaced.

I stand behind my work.

And unlike I do with you, I believe what Rich says.

Kk "I am an avid and accomplished waterfowler (both as a caller and a shooter)."

TA "I can tell you are neither of which you just claimed.

What are you, now, a fucking psychic?

Maybe this will help...



A friend of mine, and myself... I got my limit and he was one bird shy of his.
I did all the calling, I set up the dekes, and it was my honey hole and blind (*where I trapped beavers for the landowner).

Red and I limited out, almost every hunt, all season long, it was awesome;



I can't believe you, of all people, would question my honesty.

And while the ability to use (and tune) a duck call did help with the learning curve of using predator calls, the two types of hunting are very different. I personally think that bass fishing, and the way that understanding how "structure" applies, was more helpful.

I bet you couldn't buy a coyote in Western Washington, and I'm sure Kokopelli will back me up on how difficult a task that really was.

But you'll just come up with some lame excuse for why you'd never try.

TA "I was just strokeing your ego...

So... now you're admitting, again, that you're a liar?

I don't think so. As Rich stated in the thread about his call;

RH "You know what you made for me."

And... I know what I made for you, too.

Kk "It's not very often I accept praise for my work, without a fight, but this time I am inclined to agree with you guys.

TA got a really good one."

TA "Where do you come up with this shit? We where never friends."

It's all too clear, at this point, that I was mistaken.

But, just like Bofire once told me, after discussing politics ruined the ride home after a wonderful day of hunting... "I won't let you off the hook that easily, we're still friends."

I hope someday we can put all this petty shit behind us, and be, or at least act like, friends.

Lord knows I've tried, and He knows that you aren't trying... and you'll have to deal with Him on your own, and I don't envy you that.

You're a pitiful man, Tim Anderson, and I can't help but feel sorry for you (*and your wife).

Go away.

Krusty

[ February 17, 2013, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on February 17, 2013, 11:07 PM:
 
Interesting read.

If either one of you guys want an explanation of how to make meaningful measurements I can do that for you. Keep in mind that measurements in and of themselves have little meaning until you relate them to real world events/physics.

I'm not trying to dis anybody here....just want to give a little insight into what's happening.

I used to work metrology fixing and calibrating the same meters and instruments you guys are talking about.

I would have written a response here but it would be too long.....much easier to just speak it than to write it.....so email me and I'll send you my phone number and we can talk about what's really happening. (frank@orionite.com)
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 17, 2013, 11:19 PM:
 
Krusty, i am in need of a call to use on bobcats and coyotes. I am buying the bison howler from Mr Cronk (Rich) and would like one of yours also. "I" think i want something along the lines of a cottontail or rodent distress call. Can you offer a suggestion(s)? I am hunting in central/southern Okla. Thanks
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2013, 12:06 AM:
 

quote:

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I hope someday we can put all this petty shit behind us, and be, or at least act like, friends.

---

I put it behind me a long time ago and you on the other hand keep popping back in and bringing up your B.S.. You seem to have a hard time of just letting it go, but hey I like to play along as it keeps me busy.
As for friends I doubt it as we have nothing in common....
I see you joined up over on Higgy's board, maybe you and clever Gary can be budds..LOL
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 18, 2013, 02:21 AM:
 
Frank,

I totally appreciate the offer, and your experienced insight, but it's a moot point for me.

Tim is the one using his meter incorrectly, and then making assumptions and erroneous conclusions (I guess, to validate his methodology).

F "Keep in mind that measurements in and of themselves have little meaning until you relate them to real world events/physics."

That's what I've been saying all along ...calls, and speakers, are simple machines and they operate on physics.
Physics has a set of laws and not even Tim and his WT, or his meter, can change or break these laws.

I tell you what though, I'll gladly defer any further discussions and corrections of proper or improper use of decibel meters and conclusions thereof, to you... since I've had more than enough.

Somehow I doubt Tim will admit to being wrong, or accept your offer...and it looks like I was right.

Mike,

My first suggestion... You can't go wrong with Haydel's Govt Rabbit.

In general though, I make open reed calls that will cover a wide range of sounds, from squeaks to deer grunts, providing the caller has the skills to use one.

I think Andy summed it up pretty well;

Andy " Great tone and wide range of use. Rabbit, bird, barks, howls, ki yis, no problem."

I've got a couple calls that are ready to go to the engraver, and several more in the works, or we can start from scratch.
We just have to figure out what (color) wood you like, a rough estimate of the size of the call, and make it happen.

Shoot me an e-mail at jeffsavoie768 at hotmail.com and we'll work out the details.

Thanks for asking.

Tim,

What part of "go away" did you fail to understand?

Krusty
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 18, 2013, 07:43 AM:
 
I know absolutely NOTHING about decibel meters other than the fact that they measure how loud a sound is. One thing I am good at is judging how good a predator call sounds I have to say that the double reed call that Krusty made for me sounds exactly like a jackrabbit. I know that coyotes don't usually care about sound quality of a distress scream, but I do.
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 18, 2013, 08:09 AM:
 
Krusty's double stacked reed isn't everyone's bag. It's purely a distress reed and it has a very unique, many faceted, sound with the material Krusty uses. You can stroke a howl out of it with the double reed but you're best off using it to cry with. That's where the double reed shines.

If memory serves, Rich Higgins chose to use the single reed because of the amazing pup distress that he and Tyler could do with it.(from memory, I could be wrong, but doubt it)

TA, I wouldn't discount Gary C's knowledge; he shoots more coyotes with a shotgun in 2 weekends than you shoot in 2 seasons. He may have a low tolerance for ignorance and be somewhat brusque, but you could and probably have benefited from his knowledge on e-calls and coyotes in general.
Different areas, differing circumstances but using some of his techniques could put one or two more on the ground. You can't argue with results. (But you will because you're a troglodyte)

[ February 18, 2013, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on February 18, 2013, 09:26 AM:
 
Here he's 'calling'.
"Come here,Come here"
"Move Bertha,Move"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNS42Na2mpc

[ February 18, 2013, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 18, 2013, 09:57 AM:
 
DiYi, great video and great song
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2013, 11:00 AM:
 
Is Professor Higgins still around? I heard he retired to a monastery in Tibet. There, to perfect his communication skills with ki yotes. Before entering his "Cone Of Silence" he distinctly said; I will return, (much like Buddha sitting under his tree of know ledge) decked out in his camo loin cloth and Mesphistos. He will always be my hero. And, I am not alone.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS Clever Gary, not so much.
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 18, 2013, 11:14 AM:
 
We all have personality disorders of some sort or we wouldn't be here, or over at PHF.
I look past the messenger and try to glean the actual message. Some ppl are perpetually stuck in the box and parrot the parrots. I look for ppl that have escaped the box and think freely, evil or not, that free thinking and thought screams knowledge.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 18, 2013, 11:15 AM:
 
Calling coyotes in Western Wash????
That brings back memories...........all bad.
When I was on a 4 on 4 off work schedule in Olympia I could go a few miles from home and call vast areas of timber property. Everything from old growth to clearcuts. Pretty much an exercise in futility.
Or;
I could drive a whole bunch of hours down to North-Eastern Ore. and actually kill coyotes.

Krusty, you mentioned bass fishing; I grew up wading in a river in Mich. with a fishing pole in at least one hand. Got so I could glance up or down the river and have a pretty good idea where structure held fish. I'm not sure if that background has helped my calling or not but when it came time to set traps for coyotes in sand washes I sure felt right at home.

Honesty compels me to admit that not all memories from Wash. are bad. Just most of them. A varmint call during early archery deer season was basically meat in the freezer.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2013, 11:31 AM:
 
smithers, we all have our heros. I ran hunt contests for the CSVCA for more than ten years and clever Gary was a fairly regular participant. I do not remember a single time that he ever turned in an animal on those State Hunts?

If he has photos of critters these days, he has gained vast knowledge from when I knew him? More power to him, but he was an also ran, never a factor, back in the day and that's why I am unconvinced.

Admittedly, shotgunning coyotes in California is relatively unexplored territory. This is generally wide open rifle country. Maybe that's my problem since I don't start thinking about shotguns until I get to Arizona?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 18, 2013, 12:22 PM:
 
Leonard, it's nothing to do with heroes, it's about their outside the box thinking that is of interest and whatever Gary's performance in contests past are of no interest to me.
Gary currently clubs them in tight cover with a shotgun when, as you mentioned, it's wide open country and Rich H rarely shoots them, he observes the coyotes and learns from them.
I don't hero worship them but I'm intrigued by, and can appreciate the methods they employ to lure coyotes.

[ February 18, 2013, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 18, 2013, 12:54 PM:
 
Speaking of hero worshipping, every predator caller and thier mother is trying to get a TV show nowdays. Is it just me...or is every predator hunting show on television/you tube or whatever boring as shit? Seems to me that the predator calling craze sort of peaked and declining already?

Then again, maybe its me who is bored with schlepping coyotes back to the truck?

Mark
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 18, 2013, 02:50 PM:
 
The shows are boring because they start out at a pre-coyote 101 level and stay that way until the fist pumping starts. It's rare that any show offers any of the how or why. Product placement on the other hand is rampant. I can't recall too many predator shows or videos that I've watched and thought `I want to give that a try`.
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 18, 2013, 03:27 PM:
 
Cal's video is one that I watched and thought I'd like to try that.
If Kelly Jackson would post more videos... I'd be all over those.
I'd pay some money to watch Scott Huber call in and kill coyotes.
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 18, 2013, 05:48 PM:
 
This surely has been a doozy of a thread, of course muddied the most by Timmy.

I appreciate the nomination to do some testing on the callers. If someone has a specific meter that they'd like me to try and find to use, let me know. I'd be happy to test out a few e-callers in various conditions. A frozen lake on a calm, cold morning would be a good test. Frank, if I can get a meter, I'll give you a call to discuss some further details.

What I find funny is Timmy saying that Goldwave captures the same sounds that the meter does. How do you know tiny Tim? Are you using Goldwave to record the same sounds you tested with your sound meter? How'd that work out with your MA-21?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2013, 06:15 PM:
 

quote:

---

How'd that work out with your MA-21?

---

Pretty good actually.. Too bad you don't have one just like it...
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on February 18, 2013, 06:26 PM:
 
This could get long if I let it but here's some things t think about:

The following graphic is the frequency response of a microphone I picked out at random

http://www.newschoolaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/frequency-response_ksm44.gif]htt p://www.newschoolaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/frequency-response_ksm44.gif]http://www.newschoolaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/frequency-response_ksm44.gif

The ideal would be a straight line from one side to the other. That would mean the microphone resonse to sound at different frequencies would be very accurate. Any up and down movement of the line represents a less than ideal response.

This microphone signal is then fed into a meter. The meter itself also has a frequency response and that also has to be considered. We call that an End to End value where all things that contribute are added together to come up with the final frequency response of the system.

So, assuming you have a system that is flat across the frequency range of interest, you then make a measurement of sound volume. If your system is good enough you can be pretty sure you're getting an accurate sound level reading within the range of frequencies the system is capable of.

But at what frequencies does the sound contain all its power? That's the kind of discrimination a sound meter can't give you...you only know the sound power or level is happening within the frequency range of the system.

To really analyze the sound you need to know at what frequencies the sound is being generated. From that you do what is called a Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) this gives you the frequency components of the sound. You then do a Power Spectral Density (PSD) on the sound to see at what frequency the sound power resides.

OK, so once that is done you can compare this reading to actual voice from a wounded animal or the like.

Then you compare this reading with the remote caller's output and see what you get.

This would tell you how faithful the player is reproducing the actual screams of the animal. You could see what frequencies comprise the sound and where the power is within those frequencies.

I've never seen a graph of the sounds coming from an animal so can't really say for sure but my guess is most animal vocalizations will happen within the range of human hearing. So that begs the question: If your system responds to 30,000HZ does it really help? I'd say no, probly not.

The interesting thing about a hand call is you got no electronics so what is put out as sound is as pure as it gets. But with the hand call, realism is up to the caller. We used to judge calling contests and I always judged on realism.

There's allot more to this for sure but what would you get out of doing a scientific study? Well, you'd get allot of cost for probly little gain. Then, too, how would you judge efficacy of one call over another or one sound over another?

Your sample size would have to be enormous and that's probly not possible in a realistic sense.

The old timers can tell you what works without having to invest millions in sound research.

I can say one thing for sure....I've never had any luck whatsoever with quail sounds. Don't know why but they've never worked for me. That's an example of real world experience that don't cost a whole lot.

[ February 18, 2013, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 18, 2013, 06:26 PM:
 

quote:

---

Pretty good actually.. Too bad you don't have one just like it...

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I probably have multiples Timmy, so get over yourself. If it's the meter, then I can get that too, but better.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 18, 2013, 10:17 PM:
 
Rich,

As always, your praise of the call I made you is greatly appreciated. I couldn't ask for a better testimonial than that, or from a better source.
Once again you've set a wonderful example for myself and others to follow.

Smithers,

Same goes for you, not many people meet your level of vocalized satisfaction for my work or my generosity, and that makes it all the more worthwhile.

And while I'm at it I should thank Tim... every time he bitches about the call I made him, it inspires people to contradict his "opinions" ...but I won't.

He probably sells way more Krusty Kriers, FoxPro's, and Minaska's, than he ever has WT's. lol

If my memory serves me correctly, Higgins was "messing with" his reeds and accidentally broke the top petal.
Canine/pup distress (IMO) is where the double-stacked Lexan reeds really excel.

I often state and you reiterate the double-stacked reeds aren't everyone's cup of tea. Leonard and Tom both like their calls better with a single reed and they like 'em a lot.

And while you're correct that howling isn't the best thing these calls can do, with the double-stacked reed, I've recently made a very slight change that makes them more conducive to howling (*but I can't give away all my trade secrets).

Krusty

P.S. I'll e-mail you that "secret".
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2013, 11:08 PM:
 

quote:

---

I've recently made a very slight change that makes them more conducive to howling (*but I can't give away all my trade secrets).

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quote:

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Somehow I doubt Tim will admit to being wrong, or accept your offer...and it looks like I was right.

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Nope wrong again Krusty.. I talked with Frank tonight.. Learned a little to.. Heck of a nice guy and I enjoyed the talk, too bad there were'nt more guys like him, I also wish him well... Frank also does'nt have that heavey Cali accent like Leonard so he is easier to understand..

[ February 18, 2013, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 19, 2013, 01:00 AM:
 
Tim,

Lemme spell it out for you in plainer and simpler English... since you can't seem to comprehend anything, otherwise.

I made a very slight change to make double-stacked reeds more conducive to howling, without losing any of the possible frequency range of distress sounds.

TA "Makes the call work better in the colder temp.s also."

Once you put an open reed call IN YOUR MOUTH, and blow 90 something degree air through it, it is no longer affected by outside temperatures.

That's one of the advantages of open reed calls, which anyone that stops and thinks about it knows.

Stick with what you actually know, which isn't much.
And in the mean time, shut the hell up and put your brain in gear once in a while.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 19, 2013, 04:21 AM:
 
Krusty, I went out for a couple quick stands last night, after work, and was howling with my Krier (double reed) to prove myself wrong. I was producing some saleable howls.
The single reed produces wonderful sounds and howls, but the distress with the single doesn't have the 'layers' of the double reed, IMO.

I should mention that the reed I currently have on my call is a double stack reed that I made. It's not the original one Krusty crafted or one if his updated reeds.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 19, 2013, 05:14 PM:
 
Chris S,

Would you post the length of that Krusty Cryer you were howling with? I would also be interested in the width of the barrel.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 19, 2013, 06:44 PM:
 
Rich,

I believe this is Chris' call;



And like you often say, that a Taylor Special isn't a howler, you're more than welcome to say this call isn't either.

Chris can give us the hard numbers, later... he neglected to say that he ended up killing a coyote last night and he's probably riding that momentum and is out calling again.

But if I had to guess, that call is 2 1/2 inches long with an oval bell end averaging right around 1 inch, and that the toneboard is just shorter than that of a CritR Call (standard).

Krusty

Edit: oops wrong call picture.

[ February 19, 2013, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 19, 2013, 07:17 PM:
 
Thanks Krusty. I was thinking that such was the case. Small predator calls of the size we are talking about here can howl like a coyote pup, and make dandy puppy squeals. They call coyotes just fine. My personal hangup is when guys claim to be getting adult coyote howls out of their open reed predator calls that are no larger than a Crit'r call "standard". Timmy claims he is getting "young of the year" coyote vocals out of his small predator call, and this being the month of February, that would be pretty much "adult" coyote vocals. In order to get the tone and volume of an adult coyote with a small open reed call, one needs to add a funnel, or "megaphone" up front. That is not political speak, it is pure hard fact. Cal's "Taylor Special" will indeed bark and howl, and Cal calls a heck of a lot of coyotes with it. Maybe even MORE than a heck of a lot of them. It is my strong opinion that YOUR open reed calls are as good as any, and better than most, I can't say enough good about YOUR calls, I just needed to clarify what a true coyote howler is, nothing more.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 19, 2013, 07:39 PM:
 
Rich I use your howler (horn) from time to time when locateing and when I need to make a change up on some coyotes.. I also use the rabbit call you sold me for howling also as a change up and when I don't have the WT along..

But for most of my calling I use the WT and carry a few calls with me as well which consists of the Jerry H. howler, My modified Yotebuster and a ap-6 or 9, and one or two metal reed calls..
When useing strictly hand calls then I use the ones listed above along with a set of calls I bought from Arky yoter. and the J.W open reed call.



My modified yote buster along side a Krusty call for size comparison.



Don't let the size fool you, this modfied call packs a pretty good punch when makeing female or YOY howls along with pup distress..

You are right about adding some sort of megaphone along with some of the smaller calls and I get simular results by useing a piece of horn with the yotebuster tone board.

 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 19, 2013, 08:29 PM:
 
Krusty, the call you have pictured is my call. I can pick it out of a line up.
3" bottom of bell to bottom of tone board. 3 3/8" top of bell to top of tone board. 1 3/8" tone board length and 3/4" at its widest point, 5/8" at the tip.
That's not a full on howler but in a pinch, it works.

And you're right again, Krusty. It has a 1" oval bell end.

[ February 19, 2013, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 21, 2013, 04:01 PM:
 
Smithers,

Funny you should mention "picking calls from a line-up" ...and not so funny at the same time.

Stay tuned......

Tim,

What are the chances of you posting a nice clear photo of the one on the fur, shown above?

Krusty

Edit to fix smilie

[ February 21, 2013, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 21, 2013, 05:51 PM:
 
Krusty,
My guess is that the call on that fur was molded by Tundranooky up in Alaska. If Timmy doesn't come clean on that, I will be forced to ask Leonard to ban him to the consolidated PinHead forum. Shucks, he belongs there anyhoo.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 21, 2013, 05:58 PM:
 
Thats a howler sold by Jerry Hunsley, and a dam fine one at that. I don't know who makes them for him though.. I'll see what I can do about a better pic..
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 22, 2013, 06:49 AM:
 
Jerry made the original, and then sent one to be molded by guess who? Tundrawookie that's who. Wow Tim, you escaped the pinHead forum once again.
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 22, 2013, 08:50 AM:
 
I knew that Loren Reese did a lot of molding, but this is the first I have heard of TundraWookie doing so.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 22, 2013, 09:01 AM:
 
Possom,
I was thinking that Loren Reese and Tundrawookie were the same guy. Maybe I am wrong, it has happened before.
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on February 22, 2013, 10:37 AM:
 
Rich, Loren Reese is a school principal at Kenai Peninsula. Tundra Wookie is an engineer.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 22, 2013, 11:15 AM:
 
Possom,

Thanks. for second time in my life, I was wrong.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 22, 2013, 11:39 AM:
 
Cronk is wrong again/alert the media!
 

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Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 22, 2013, 03:20 PM:
 
Missed this one...Does somebody need injection molded calls made? I used to do mold design work and injection molds for the auto industry, so a mouth-call would be a walk in the park as far as molds go. Loren does a good job on his molded calls.

I still vote to banish Timmy to the pinhead forum for 48 hours minimum.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 22, 2013, 03:40 PM:
 
Jerry does indeed make a very fine Howler(Wileyone). When I first got mine it had the red reed and it was very inconsistant with the howls,it would cut out mid howl ALOT, I talked to Jerry about it and he said he got better reed material and sent me out some replacement reeds free of cost. Problem solved.....Makes very good high pitched Female/Young Coyote Howls.....

Good Hunting Chad

[ February 22, 2013, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 22, 2013, 04:02 PM:
 
Chad was that the larger howler Jerry sells or like the one in my pic.??

I have both and do remember Jerry giveing me two types of reed material for the larger howler...
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 22, 2013, 04:28 PM:
 
I'm pretty sure it is the larger one. I got it when he first started making them.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 22, 2013, 04:56 PM:
 
I remember Gerry telling me that he was going out of business, which saddens me because I really wanted him to succeed. His calls were good quality, and he is such a nice guy ya know?
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 22, 2013, 05:00 PM:
 
Yeah that is sad to hear. He really is a great guy.

[ February 22, 2013, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 22, 2013, 05:27 PM:
 
Well... that doesn't clear things up much.

When Tim mentioned "a guy in Alaska" and then showed that photo, I connected the two (that call and Loren Reese) together.

Without a much better photo that's as much, at this point, as I care to say.

Krusty
 

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Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on February 22, 2013, 08:15 PM:
 
My wileyone call is black with a red reed.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 22, 2013, 09:35 PM:
 
Jeremy,

Yeah that's what mine is and it did come with the red reed. He then sent me a few white ones and they are much better.
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 22, 2013, 09:44 PM:
 
I thought the photo that TA posted was of one of your calls, Krusty. Some odd variation with a tree branch coming off the bottom.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 22, 2013, 10:30 PM:
 
Call laying on its side in front is a Loren Reese Diamond-cutter call. I have a couple of these in various sizes..

 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 22, 2013, 10:36 PM:
 
Call to the far right is one of Hunsleys howlers with red reed.

 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 22, 2013, 10:39 PM:
 
The smaller howler made by J.H.


 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 22, 2013, 10:41 PM:
 
Smithers,

One of the three calls Tim posted photos of, is a call I made for him.

Here's a better view of that one;



The call (or call model) that I would still like to see a better photo of is the blurry one sitting on the fur.

Krusty

Edit: Now I see a better photo, thanks Tim.

Without going much farther into it, I'll offer Loren Reese and Jerry Hunsley my apologies, and walk away from this issue.

[ February 22, 2013, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 22, 2013, 11:01 PM:
 
What I also like about Jerry's howlers is he has pretty much his own style of a tone board vrs some of the other call builders use the same tone boards and is pretty much the same call other than the bell end is different some good some not so good......
 

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Posted by Fur-n-dirt (Member # 4368) on June 05, 2013, 07:36 PM:
 
I haven't read all the threads yet (I will), but if we are still talking about low or high volume.. Any sound combination will work, but which is most effective?

My favorite right now is to use an ecall on HiGH for a short duration 2 to 5 seconds wait a minute and repeat..

Tucson has a lot of cats, so tend to use a bird or high pitch cottaintail..

This works! Period. It's the most effect method for me during the fall time frame..

The coyotes I shoot don't care about the volume.

A side story which is funny,last month while turkey hunting' I called a few stands for coyotes. Turned out , I had a coyote sleeping only 80 yards away. I blasted my call for 2 seconds and I actually saw him jump out of his bed and came right in. I nailed him. This on volume 80 out of 100!

I always wonder how many coyotes shy away from calling high, but I get enough to come in to tell me that this strategy works!

Go get 'em..
 

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