The New Huntmastersbbs!: Which Howler?

This is topic Which Howler? in forum Calls and Gear forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

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Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 09, 2006, 09:05 PM:

Looking to try out a new howler and need some opinions on what you guys think is the best howler out there. I may even spend the money on a cow horn howler. Has anybody used a ELK howler? Ive also seen pics of a ELK mouth piece on a cow horn anybody know anything about this call?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2006, 10:50 PM:

The ELK is good, the Johnny Stewart is easy to use, Rich Cronk can make you one. They all work.

Of course, one is getting hard to come by; the very nice Higgins Howler.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 10, 2006, 03:29 AM:

My 1st, was a Johnny Stewart "Songdog". I lost it a field [Frown]

.

My 2nd was a Quaker Boy "Pro Howler" [take the mouth piece cover off] [Wink]

. Gave it to a friend, who didn't have a howler.

Both excellent calls IMB.

I use any of my open reed calls, for everything now.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 10, 2006, 04:34 AM:

Rich Higgins will tell you that he isn't in the manufacturing arena any longer, but Brett Saxton (sp?) aka Kee Kee is making them almost the same way using the ELK Power Howler platform and the bovine horn.

I wish you'd have said something Sunday. Either Rich, Tyler or I would have been happy to let you hear one. Mine was in the truck with the rest of my camos. [Smile]

[ January 10, 2006, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 10, 2006, 07:24 AM:

I have the JS cyc2 howler that I use without a horn as a pup howler and with a horn from a quaker boy howler (slight modification to make fit) as an adult howler. Personally I like a howler with a removable horn so you can sound like a lower pitched adult or a higher pitched pup out of the same call.

Over on TPP recently there was a short thread similar to this and a couple of people talked about using a critter call standard as the mouth piece for a horn or funnel. One specified using a .015" reed.

I haven't done this to vouch for the sound but if I had a critter call standard and a funnel I would try it for fun though. I mention it because it might trigger an inspiration or be thought provoking.

Right now I'm opening my stands with a "custom" call that 2dogs assembled and gave me. It's a 2b1 tone board inserted into a white pvc adaptor (1/2" to 3/4"?? I'm not sure the size) as the call body. With a piece of cork I have secured a .010" lexan reed. It does excellent pup howls, distress, and barks. As well as a good jackrabbit. If I ever get to the hardware store I'll probably get some pieces of pvc to make a horn for it.

later,
scruffy

[ January 10, 2006, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 10, 2006, 08:57 AM:

JeremyKS,
First of all I would like to congratulate you for your recent victory down there at St. Francis. In reference to your howler question, my ears tell me that buffalo horn always seems to be the correct thickness to reproduce authentic coyote howls. A cow horn with correct length and thickness is also very good. I could make you a good one, but they are expensive because of the time it takes to tune the dang things right. Here is a tip to help you build your own. After obtaining a buffalo horn, or a cow horn with rather thin walls, drill it to accept a Crit'r call "standard". You will need a small sheet of .015 mylar which I can send you if you like. With a good pair of scissors, cut yourself a reed that is about 1/8" wider than the reed that comes with the crit'r call. You may end up trying several different reed widths until you find one that fits your style of blowing. When you install the new reed, you want the reed just long enough so that it barely covers the air channel out at the tip. On the horn itself, begin with a length of ten inches or so. You can always shorten the bugger a little bit at a time if you don't like the sound.
Good luck,
Rich

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 10, 2006, 09:21 AM:

Rich, how does .015" mylar compare to .010" lexan? In my comparison of .010" lexan to .010" vinal I found the lexan to be raspier and the vinal to be softer sounding. Just wondering your thoughts on how mylar compares.

I have a small sheet of mylar (from Krusty sample pack that I think is .015") that I'll try to cut a reed from to test in the call I got from 2dogs (It's a good test mule [Cool]

). Just wondering what to expect so if I get something different I know something went hay wire (bad reed, bad cutting job, etc).

later,
scruffy

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 10, 2006, 10:30 AM:

My JS Songdog, sounded alot like my Crit'R call Standard. But I liked the Songdog better [Smile]

-------------
As I've stated earlier, on the calls I've slapped together & given away. The tone-boards, were made by [Steve Barbour] [Wink]

.

For Gosh sakes, I don't want to be one of them thar...prostitutes [Big Grin]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2006, 10:41 AM:

quote:
For Gosh sakes, I don't want to be one of them thar...prostitutes

Hint: the more you deny it the more suspicious. [Smile]

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 10, 2006, 10:57 AM:

Hmmm, Leonard...I use to think of you as my Uncle. Now, after that remark...now your my Foster Uncle, LOL!

coyote-hooker dogs [Big Grin]

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 10, 2006, 11:21 AM:

Jeremy,

I'd get a Taylor Special, or a Killer Call, from Mr. Cronk.
I'd also seriously consider the YD1 or 2 (can't remember which is the howler) from Yellerdude, err I mean Yellerdog. [Big Grin]

They are pocket sized howlers with full sized abilities. My big cowhorn never went with me, it needed it's own fanny pack (and just "sounded too big").

I can't say I've tried the E.L.K. powered horn howlers. They do sound good, from the sound bytes I've heard.

Scruffy,

The mylar I sent is slightly different than the (tan colored) mylar Rich uses.
The clear sheet mylar I sent has very similar sound characteristics, and a little less memory for holding a bend or kink.

Comparing vinyl to lexan, isn't a fair comparison, for thickness alone.
Think of thickness like a diving board, a thicker board has more spring (until it becomes too thick).

Lee (aka Yellerdog) ***** sheets of the tan mylar, at a totally reasonable price. The minimum purchase I could find it in was a 4'x100' roll (and I doubted I could sell enough to get my money back).

Krusty

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 10, 2006, 11:38 AM:

Thanks for the help and info Krusty!

later,
scruffy

[ January 10, 2006, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 10, 2006, 12:12 PM:

"Rich, how does .015" mylar compare to .010" lexan?"
--------
Well, the .010 lexan is .005 thinner than .015 mylar. [Smile]

To be honest, I haven't done a fair comparison of Lexan VS Mylar. Mylar is what the Dupont company calls their polyester film,but I don't know what Lexan is for sure. I have some that Krusty gave me, and it seems to act & sound much the same as mylar but what it would do down the road in ten years? I don't know the answer to that. I use mylar because I have tested it for twenty years now, and the stuff sure does hold up well.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 10, 2006, 12:27 PM:

Krusty,
Thanks for the kindwords in regard to the killer call, and the modified model like Cal Taylor uses. Cal is walking proof that a man can certainly get by with a small howler under most calling conditions. Matter of fact, Cal once told me that he thinks I am crazy for putting a big ole horn up front. [Smile]

The cow horn is a lot louder for one thing, and that gives quite an advantage in windy conditions. The horn also gives better adult coyote sounds I think. The coyotes are the only judge that matters though, and I have seen them come to howls from human vocal chords. I once heard a coyote during the night that sounded like a big old frog or something. Some of the worst howls I have ever heard came from real coyotes. Go figure.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2006, 01:56 PM:

I believe Lexan is an acrylic?

Something I thought was interesting was a conversation I had with Gerald Stewart, several years ago. He said they had been using die cut thermoplastic of some sort(?) for the howler but switched to an injection molded reed material that has a tapered thickness. He said they were stronger?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 10, 2006, 02:06 PM:

Leonard,
Now that you mention it, I do remember seeing a couple of the older Stewart howlers with cracked reeds. I'm glad to hear that they have taken steps to correct a possible reed material problem.

Posted by Yellerdog (Member # 356) on January 10, 2006, 07:46 PM:

quote:
I'd also seriously consider the YD1 or 2 (can't remember which is the howler) from Yellerdude, err I mean Yellerdog.

Lee (aka Yellerdog) ***** sheets of the tan mylar, at a totally reasonable price. The minimum purchase I could find it in was a 4'x100' roll (and I doubted I could sell enough to get my money back).

My ears were ringing and I wondered why? [Confused]

Now I know. [Wink]

Dang Krusty, I only had to buy a 5' x 50' roll.
Should only take me about a year or two to get my money back. [Eek!]

There didn't seem to be many options though.

They're YDH1's and YDD2's by the way. You were pretty close though. [Wink]

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 10, 2006, 10:50 PM:

Scruffy,

As always, you're welcome, I am glad I could help. [Smile]

I've had some pretty good teachers help me understand how calls work, some were actually teachers (at school). [Wink]

One of the first things Rich Cronk taught me, was to be generous, with what I know, and what I can do.

There's four materials I am familiar with, enough to offer my own comparison.
Polystyrene, like "hot wheels" toy package.
Polyvinyl, which is what many duck calls use (P.S. Olt in particular does).
Mylar, Dupont's proprietary name for a nylon like product.
And Lexan, also Dupont's proprietary name, for a polycorbonate based plastic.

Starting with polyvinyl, because it's at one end of the spectrum, it has a mellow tone, low srping rate, and high memory. It also isn't well manufactured (to be a consistant sheet, it's pumped into shapes), and tends to split along it's grain.
Mylar comes in several forms, including the silver balloons and potato chip bags, and both the tan mylar most call makers use and the clear mylar I have (one is mylar D and the other mylar B, I believe the tan stuff is B).
Mylar has a rich tone, good spring rate and memory, and is manufactured to be a very high quality sheet.
The tan mylar may have a bit longer lifespan (than the clear) but I haven't seen any significant difference.
The clear mylar has a bit crisper tone, slighty quicker spring than the tan, and not quite as good of memory for holding a bend.
I think someone would have to die-cut the reeds to exactly the same size and shape, and use sophisticated recording equipment, to test the differences.
The lexan has the sharpest tones, broadest range of pitch, and a very high spring rate, but to achieve this it suffers from being quite brittle. Because of that I can see where it will only ever see use in the custom call arena, where personalized customer care is at another level. I'm hooked on the stuff though.

Rich,

Lucky for us, the truth is kind (in this case). That's where I found my words. [Smile]

I'll stick by what I said, a howler that fits in my pocket, or comfortably on my lanyard, has more "true value" to me (especially in the field).
I haven't gotten to talk smak with a whole lotta coyotes, but with a fair amount of the ones I have, I did so using a CritR Call modified exactly as you suggested.

I had a pack of four or five coyotes RUN from my big horn howler (they were doing what I'd call a gathering/flee/assembly group yip howl). Though it was the night before I called the cougar, so maybe it wasn't me they were running from?

Leonard,

I believe acrylic is a tradename for polypropylene (sic?)(so are polyester, rayon, orlon, and it's the base for the many versions of holofil).

Tapering the reed (both in width and/or thickness) is a way of having a varying spring rate, that way it gets softer (or weaker) towards the tip, giving you a higher pitched "top end".

It very well could be that the die they were using left micro serations in the edges of the reeds, which caused cracks and failure of the reeds.
The lexan is prone to the same types of failures, and sanding the edges smooth and slightly chamferred increases lifespan dramatically.

Injection molding alone might have solved the failure problem, and created a bonus situation with increaded range of the variable rate reed?

Yellerdude,

Just like with Mr Cronk, the kind words I have for your calls are also found in truth.
I likes em. [Big Grin]

So I take it the YDH1 is your Yeller Dog Howler - version 1...
I tried both, at bear camp a couple years back, and was fully impressed.

Krusty

[ January 10, 2006, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]

Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on January 10, 2006, 11:15 PM:

Rich,did you ever try the 14 mil mylar? i use it on most all my howlers and it works very good for me.

If any of you can use some 14 mil mylar or.010 you could try hut products.you can buy it in smaller quantities.I designed a new call,[the black pup]the.010 i used on the tone board and it worked very good.I believe the critr' standard comes with the .010 mylar reed.?

you can check them out here

www.hutproducts.com

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 11, 2006, 06:54 AM:

Melvin,
To be perfectly honest, I don't know for sure. I have enough mylar in either .014 or .015 to last me a lifetime if my garage don't burn down. [Smile]

I will get my micrometer out one of these days and see if I can determine what exactthickness it is. Since I make my own tone boards one at a time and tune each one to match the barrel that I choose, I doubt that .001" thickness difference between .014 & .015 would matter much.

Now against my better judgement, I am going to tell you fellows something. Most of you are probably familiar with the pitch break problem when using a howler. I am convinced that this is largely caused by internal pressure (blowback). That is why it is necessary to tune each cow horn howler after the voice is inserted into the horn. Remember how Bill Austin PVC pipe calls were made with quite a large opening in front of, and above the reed? I didn't like that design, but have come to believe that it would eliminate most of the blowback, and therefore cure most pitch break problems. I am going to test that theory very soon. Those old soft plastic notebook cover reeds would have less pitch breaks also, but who the heck wants to be bending the reed back in to shape 100 times a day? Just a few thoughts from an old call maker.

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 11, 2006, 07:22 AM:

quote:
The lexan has the sharpest tones, broadest range of pitch, and a very high spring rate, but to achieve this it suffers from being quite brittle. Because of that I can see where it will only ever see use in the custom call arena, where personalized customer care is at another level. I'm hooked on the stuff though.

In my short experience I agree 100%. I was practicing on my test mule call with a .010" lexan reed on the way to work this morning. I started with doe bleets, then fawn distress, lonesome pup howls, pup yips, pup whines, excited pup distress (this morning I finally got that sound like I want it and am ready to use it in the field! [Big Grin]

), low pitched raspy jack rabbit, high pitched cottontail rabbit, and of course sharp barks to stop a coyote for the shot. I know there are still more sounds in that call/reed combo, and given time I'll get them out of it (2dogs showed me how to do a woodpecker but as of yet I haven't been able to do it).

That said, the last time I was up hunting with 2dogs his lexan reeded call had a reed split at the tip. That night when I changed from a vinyl reed back to a lexan reed on my test mule. I cut a template reed (gridded sheet of lexan) and then after it sounded like I wanted I used the template to cut two lexan reeds from non gridded lexan paper I have (both gridded and non gridded lexan sheets from walmart craft department). I tested both reeds and put one in my wallet behind my drivers liscense (along with the vinyl reed that was in the call, can't have too many spare reeds on you. [Wink]

) and left the better of the two sounding reeds in the call. The template is somewhere safe.

I don't use sandpaper on the lexan reed edges, but I do use fine steel wool. I start the reed wide at the base and taper it narrower at the front. On my next lexan reeds that I cut I was thinking to make the cuts for the sides of the reed straighter I was going to take a flat fingernail file, lay it down flat with a rough side up, and slide the edge of the reed, running lenghtways, over it to take any peeks and valleys out of my cuts, then polish the edges with steel wool. I'm getter better at making the cuts straight, but I doubt they are anywhere near perfect...

Oh, and I started using a sharp fingernail clipper on the front corners of the reed cutting an approx 45 degree angle (similar to the 45 degree angle cuts on a screaming deamon reed tip, but my reed is tapered down narrow at the tip, where the screamon demon reed is wide front to back). I think it gives the last front 1/8" of the reed a really high pitched "sharp" climax which I use when making my excited pup distress sounds at the end of some of my excited pup distress yelps. It's hard to explain in print... but hopefully the coyote judges will like it. [Smile]

I don't know why I find it so interesting, but I do. I guess I just love to make music. [Cool]

later,
scruffy

[ January 11, 2006, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2006, 07:52 AM:

I have always tuned by scraping (or deburring, as you wish) the edges with a very sharp knife, as opposed to sanding or steel wool.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on January 11, 2006, 10:10 AM:

Rich,you're not only an old call maker,but a good smart call maker.I believe you hit the nail on the head.There are 4 factors that come into play when making a good call(any open reed call)no.1 amount of curve on sound board.-no.2 the size of channel in sound board(width and depth)no.3The size,thickness and type of reed material used-no.4 the length,size of barrel and opening(hole)in barrel.It's very easy to check you're theory,Take the crit'r call standard or song dog,add the extra barrels to either,and you can see how blowback makes a difference.When you cup you're hand in front of any call,has an effect(blow back)to get the sound out,we want.

The way the Bill Austin's call was designed,it had free flowing air through the barrel(no blow back)it was a very simple design,but it worked.
As you know,we got to get all these 4 factors working together to come up with a good working call.(everything to match together)I'm going to throw no.5 in here,because it plays a big part in sound,and that would be,material used(plastic,wood and others.)
I don't think most callers realize what we go through to come up with a good custom call,(the time spent on each idividual call)
When they pay,25-50-100 bucks for a call,made by a good call maker,there getting there moneys worth.
Myself,i don't make calls for money-its a hobby,challenge and i enjoy making them.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 11, 2006, 10:24 AM:

Melvin,
Do you remember the old and true statement that said "We did not intend for this to be a non profit organization, it just turned out that way".?? [Smile]

Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on January 12, 2006, 07:12 PM:

Rich,

Speaking of Taylor Specials...I'm in need of a new one. I hope you have time to build me another one. I'll give you a call or email tomorrow. Thanks.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 12, 2006, 07:28 PM:

Brad,
Just like Larry the cable guy I will "Get er' Done". [Smile]

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 12, 2006, 07:58 PM:

What about the critr call song dog? Any suggestions for it?

Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on January 12, 2006, 11:19 PM:

Tom,the song dog is a good call.For many it seems to be little harder to master than the other crit'r calls.

You could try what i use to do and it makes a big difference.Fit it in a cow or buffalo horn.If you don't have access to a cow or buffalo horn,go to one of the auto supply shops and buy yourself one of those long slender oil funnels.Cut off just enough for the call to go inside snug.You will be surprised how good that call will sound.(for a dollar,its worth it)Don't forget to cut the other end off too.LOL..A total of 8" or 10" long,should do the trick.

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 13, 2006, 05:06 AM:

The best howler I've ever owned is one of Rich Cronk's horn howlers.

I "Lost" it for a year, and the wind, sun and rain sure did an ugly trick to the outside. But it still plays beautifully. Easy to use and it sounds great!

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2006, 05:07 AM:

Melvin, thank you sir. I will try that, I have "talked" back and forth with a few coyotes but they don't come in unless I do a whine of some kind. I have got them to come to me using a sceery howler but I gave that away to a friend. I also have a power howler that does ok however howling is something I really want to work on.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2006, 08:18 AM:

I will make a prediction.

Howling is the one segment that has the most potential, for calling. It's not that well understood.

If we ever figure it out, that's going to be a good thing; as Martha Stewart, (Gerald's mom) might say.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 14, 2006, 07:30 AM:

Brent Saxton just released his video "Hunting in the East". He demonstrates howling techniques, demonstrates several different types of howlers, commercial and custom, including a Cronk and his own , a KEE Howler which is just like mine without the jewelry.
Brent is probably the best howler I have ever heard.
He shows a couple of howl offs with real coyotes, entertaining while demonstrating his prowess with his howler.
Anyone interested in hearing good howling technique and what it sounds like with different howlers should get this video.
Rich, you should get the video to see what you're up against in your upcoming howling contest with Brent.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 14, 2006, 08:52 AM:

Rich Higgins,
I have no doubt about Brent's ability. Everything he knows was taught to him by you and I. I didn't teach him everything I know. Did you? Oh man,that ain't nice of me to say.
Lord, I apologize for that right there. Please be with the starving pygmy's down there in Africa--Amen.

Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 14, 2006, 09:01 AM:

Rich, sometimes you crack me up. I like you. LOL
You are a knowledgeable and gifted caller/howler and you may be as good as Brent.
But Rich, you're taking an open reed up against a KeeKee Howler. That's like taking a knife to a gun fight. [Smile]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2006, 09:13 AM:

Blue Collar Comedy Tour rides again. I don't care who you are, that's funny!

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 14, 2006, 09:24 AM:

Guns don't kill people, hubands who come home early do. If I spell a word wrong, can I blame it on my pencil?

Posted by brad h (Member # 57) on January 14, 2006, 10:42 AM:

"I just shot him, the bullets and the fall killed him."

Collateral

Brad

Posted by canine (Member # 687) on January 16, 2006, 07:48 PM:

Another open reed versus latex howler thread! [Eek!]

The best way to hear for ones self is to buy the video and hear for yourself. The realism you get from one of the latex howlers is awesome. I've used both kinds and from experience, can say,
you'll be amazed at the authenticity of the latex howler. [Smile]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2006, 06:32 AM:

Realism? http://photos.championtannery.com/cronk/cronk_yip_howl_echo.wav

Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 17, 2006, 07:09 AM:

Very nice, Rich [Cool]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2006, 09:28 AM:

Another Ford/Chevy deal.

I listened to Rich Cronk's sound right now, it's very good. I am sure I coudn't do better.

I have and use both types. I do think the Higgins Howler which has a latex reed, produces more mellow tones, if that is the right word. Do mellow tones make a difference in response? I doubt it?

As has been said many times, all calls work, just as all fishing lures work. I have seen bad callers manage to call a coyote. Which leads me to believe that sometimes, coyotes aren't very discriminating?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2006, 09:35 AM:

Leonard,
You are exactly right. The coyotes are the only judges that really matter.

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 17, 2006, 10:18 AM:

Rich, do you care if I save some of your howls to my MP3 and test them in the field?

later,
scruffy

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2006, 10:25 AM:

scruffy,
That would be ok by me. If you shoot me an E mail and let me know what sounds you want, I could send you a few. cronkcalls@aol.com

Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on January 17, 2006, 10:43 AM:

My reply would be this,
Take Brent or Higgins and latex,
Take Scott Huber and his voice,
Take Cronk and his open reed, and send them in three different directions from the same starting point and see who gets the most replys. My bet would be on Hubers voice howl.

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 17, 2006, 10:58 AM:

Thanks Rich, I'll send you an email later today or tomorrow (when I can get my email up...)

later,
scruffy

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2006, 11:11 AM:

Huber's voice howl? I thought that was a secret?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by canine (Member # 687) on January 17, 2006, 11:28 AM:

Your right Leonard.. Ford / Chevy debate..lol

I was razzin Mr. Cronk over at PM about this same thing here. I know open reeds work just as well as latex or Scott's voice..lol.. when coyote calling.

How about a soundbite Scott?

JD

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2006, 11:38 AM:

Leonard,
Well it is sort of a secret, but a few of us know the truth. Cal has probably heard Scott's voice howl and so have I. Cal has not heard MY voice howl yet. I am much better than Scott Huber even. Don't believe me? Just ask the coyotes.

Lord, I apologize for that right up there. Please be with the starving pygmies down there in Africa--Amen

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2006, 11:46 AM:

I don't have a link to my coyote voice howl, but here is a link to my wolf version.
http://photos.championtannery.com/cronk/RCwolfer.wav

Posted by Timberghozt (Member # 707) on January 17, 2006, 03:22 PM:

I have an ELK howler and it is wicked.Sounds sweet as can be.The only other howler I have tried that I like is the Johny Stewart one with the megaphone on it. [Wink]

I threw away my Knight and hale howler,sounds like shit and I never could get it right... [Frown]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2006, 04:59 PM:

Leonard,
Just a quick update. I sent two versions of Cronk voice howls off to have clickable links made out of them. I also wanted to let you know that I am now a prostaff man for Minaska outdoors, so I will be out calling more. My time on your board will be a little bit less, but I will check back when I can. Wish me luck please. [Smile]

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 17, 2006, 05:11 PM:

Good job Rich! Maybe they can put that fry pan-scuffle on the bandit? I think it'll work. I'm glad I'm not married to Mrs Cronk? [Smile]

Dennis

Posted by Rob (Member # 75) on January 17, 2006, 05:40 PM:

Rich..your wolf howl is awesome!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2006, 05:44 PM:

Well, congratulations, Rich, and good luck to you!

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 17, 2006, 06:09 PM:

I'm sure you will do a lot better than a couple of various "Prostaffers" that I've seen on TV this afternoon.

One was on an Archery Boar hunt in South Carolina. He made the comment that "Something must be in the air today" As the hogs were all moving fast out of his area.

I yelled at the TV, "Hey genius, maybe if you'd learn to sit still and shut up, you wouldn't spook everything before you get a chance to shoot.

The other guy was on an Archery Antelope hunt in SD. At the shot he claimed he hit a "Little high" And that they would probably find him just over the ridge.

I bet they found him just over a ridge and down the road a few miles. The camera doesn't lie, you could see the arrow hit the Antelope in the kidneys. He shot him in early afternoon, and it was nearly dark when they took the "Glory shots"

Good luck to you Rich, it's nice to see someone with your experience level still getting jobs they deserve.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 18, 2006, 05:43 AM:

Thanks for the kind words everyone. Here is a little recording I made last night for your enjoyment. The sound was made with my own voice alright, but I messed with the controls a bit and came up with a doozy. http://photos.championtannery.com/cronk/cronkyiphowl.wav

Posted by Yellerdog (Member # 356) on January 18, 2006, 09:06 PM:

Rich,
That's great to hear about your new position at Minaska! I'm glad your recovered and doing well.
Keep us informed on your hunting exploits. [Smile]

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 24, 2006, 07:20 AM:

Rich, congrats on your new position!!! They make a very fine caller!

And I wanted to let you know that your lone1.wav file will be opening on my ecaller stands. [Big Grin]

I saved it from your link you posted on IO, appended the file onto itself so it's now two howls, and then converted it to .MP3 for use on my mp3 player. On the front of my "playlist" (selection of tracks) I have a 1 minute silent track for me to get ready, then two RC howls ring out clear as mountain water, then 3 minutes of silence, and then 5 JS tracks that are 5 minutes a peice, 4 of those being "mixes" of JS sounds that I made like owl-crow fight mixed with cottontail cries, crow come here with canine pups, housecat distress with rodent distress (cat and mouse [Razz]

), etc.

I'm also listening to the howl and practicing my lonesome howl on my open reed calls and made some changes to how I do a lonesome howl (I was never taught, just sort of winged in based on written instruction).

And I'm sorry I haven't sent you an email taking you up on your offer of some files. I was going to do that this past weekend from my wife's laptop (where all my calling stuff is stored) using the email account that's used on that laptop (can't get into it on the pc i'm on right now...dang filters...).

But I want to thank you for your generosity, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you or don't appreciate you generosity with your sounds! They "complete" both my ecalling and handcalling stands.

later,
scruffy

[ January 24, 2006, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 24, 2006, 03:08 PM:

scruffy,
I hope that you pile up a bunch of coyotes with those sounds. I have a lonesome howl that I think is better than the original lone1 wav. E mail me at cronkcalls@aol.com. Here is a linkto a pretty fair challenge howl that I recorded a year or so ago with a cow horn howler. http://photos.championtannery.com/cronk/High%20pitch%20challenge.wav

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 25, 2006, 08:06 AM:

Thanks Rich, I've saved the challenge howl as a .wav and have it ready to save over on the wife's laptop computer tonight. It sounds really good and that's the call I need to practice on the most. I've having a hard time "starting the engine" at the beginning of the howl as GS described it on an instructional tape that came with the JS howler. Just need some more practice and listening to the "goal". And I'll also most likely convert the challenge howl to .mp3 and load it on my "all" SD memory card for my e-caller as well. It's beginning to be one killer of a memory card!

And if the wife works tonight, and the baby takes a nap, I'll get you an email tonight! Even if those two things don't happen I'll try my best to get on.

I was really impressed with the lone1.wav file, especially on my ecaller. At 90+db's it was crystal clear and should wake a few coyotes up way out there. At 50% volume in the house it almost caused the housecat to wet herself. [Eek!]

So I'm anticipating a howl that might even be better! Might have to put the cat in the basement before testing this one!

And I guess that brings up a question, is there too loud when it comes to howling? Should I howl at 100% to get out there or is that too loud? I imagine the cow horns are pushing 90db's also, but I might be wrong.

later,
scruffy

[ January 25, 2006, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]

Posted by bigc (Member # 777) on January 25, 2006, 12:46 PM:

Rich,

I've been using Bearmanrics howlers lately, made out of buffalo I think, what do I need to send yo to get 1 or 2 of yours?

Also, lately I've been only using the challenge when I get the challenge on thier end. Do you ever start off with the challenge first?

C

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 25, 2006, 01:14 PM:

bigc,
My howlers are more expensive than Ric's. It takes a total of 80.00 to get a howler and instruction cassette delivered to your address. In answer to your howling question, I usually begin with a lonesome howl. I remember a couple of years ago however, that I made a small cow horn howler for a friend who lives near Spencer, NE. We went out after turkey season ended in the spring. We set up with me looking south, down this long ridge while my friend walked a hundred yards or so west of me with the little howler. He blew a high pitched challenge and I saw two coyotes come barreling towar me from the south, and disappeared into a shallow saddle. I heard a couple more of those high pitched challenge howls from my buddy, and then I see coyote ears protruding up from the saddle. Pretty soon a coyote stands up on his hind legs to stretch his neck and look around. I could tell that he was looking for that strange coyote he was hearing. I took a quick shot at his rib cage while he was standing on his hind legs, but missed him clean! Stupid coyote didn't know where the shot came from, so he quickly hits high gear and comes barreling straight at me while I work the bolt on the old Mauser. The coyotes makes slight right turn and zips past me at 40 yards. I swing past him like I am wing shooting a duck, trigger breaks when crosshairs are on his nose and I watch him somersault across my field of view and fall very, very dead. Do challenge howls work? Hell yes they work. [Smile]

Scruffy,
Let your howls rip out there at full blast. The coyotes won't mind. I promise they won't.

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 25, 2006, 02:08 PM:

Thanks Rich, I'll play the howls at 100% and then drop the MP3 player down to 30% or 50% or so, whatever sounds like a natural volume for the animals involved, for the start of the distress sounds, like the owl-crow-rabbit mix. I imagine if I give the coyotes 3 minutes after your howls the coyotes will cut the distance and the distress sounds won't have to be near as loud to reach them, and too loud will just scare them off. I've had more than one coyote close to 200-300 yards on hearing coyote vocals and then sit and watch the area. And then when the distress started they came on in, and since they were so close not much volume was needed. If I had (and have in the past.... lessons learned) left the e-caller up at 80%-100% I know I would have stood a good chance of scaring them away or atleast not calling them any closer.

If the weather Saturday morning is decent I'll be testing out the howls and the mixes I have on the MP3 at first light, speaker and predator supreme decoy 20' or so infront of me, sitting near the top of a timbered finger that runs up a north facing hillside with open fields to my left and right, finger is 50' wide at the point I'll be sitting, and over looking a timbered valley/creek bottom below. The savage 22-250 will be at my side (although nearly useless in there, but I always take it...) and the 870 supermag in my hands.

I just can't have a south wind... Well, and the predicted 35 degrees and rain at first light I could live without also...

When are we going to get some cold snowy calling weather around here??? Even if there was no snow, just some temps in the single digits to teens when the sun comes up on a clear day would be nice. [Frown]

Edit: the "end of finger" strategy was told to me last year by an aquantance that hunts coyotes with old cap and ball muzzy's. I figure if it works for him and his old old traditional muzzleloaders, it should work for my 870 supermag 12 gauge with reddot. [Smile]

edit: just got word, wife isnt' working but took the daughter and went shopping with her mom. I'm leaving to try and get a stand in before it gets dark (unlikely...) and then if they still aren't home (likely) I'll get you an email sent, possibly with a photo howled in by lone1.wav. [Wink]

later,
scruffy

[ January 25, 2006, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 25, 2006, 02:49 PM:

Scruffy,
I blow my howler at full volume right from the start, but I don't know how loud your caller is. I know that I can turn my Bandit up too loud for most calling. If it is a calm day, you likely wouldn't want full volume. Common sense is the best rule.

Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 25, 2006, 05:22 PM:

Rich, you have e-mail. [Smile]

later,
scruffy

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