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Author
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Topic: Wildlife Technologies; all the good, all the bad.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 27, 2003 08:10 AM
Here it is, folks.
You have issues. Let's hear about it.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32373 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted July 27, 2003 08:27 AM
I have never heard a WT caller, and probably never will. I was doing full time predator control work for a county program a few years ago and was entertaining the idea of a WT. I even talked to the predator board that I worked for and had it set up for them to share some of the costs. So with that in mind I called the company and investigated some more. I don't know for a fact who I talked to, but when I started quizing him about some specific howls and sounds the person I talked to at first was a little flustered and then came unglued with a barrage of profanity about his sounds and equipment. I was told things about myself and even some of my geneology that I didn't know. I had never heard anything quite like it from any business I had ever called before. I finally hung up and decided that I was doing fine with mouth calls and didn't really need a fancy electronic, and if I ever did get an electronic it was not going to be a WT. I would quit hunting coyotes before I spent a dime on a WT caller and I still have never heard or seen one, and really don't care if I ever do.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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yotecaller
Knows what it's all about
Member # 179
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posted July 27, 2003 08:27 AM
I will keep this short and clean.I don`t like the way WT puts down other call companies so I will never buy one.Thats all,I have nothing left to say.
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May God be with You.
Posts: 28 | From: NH | Registered: Apr 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 27, 2003 09:27 AM
"Speaker crackle--coyote no come" Dances With Coyotes
IP: Logged
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted July 27, 2003 10:01 AM
When I had an imposter posting to my guestbook on my website on of the people he posted as was Mr Martz, in my dealing with Mr. Martz by e-mail he was polite and understanding...
If ever given a reason to be upset idenity theft is a good one.
So as usual, it appears, I am the exception to the rule. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Jeff 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 27, 2003 01:23 PM
This might be a good time to offer a couple of suggestions and a clarification or two?
First, let it out! If you have had a good or bad experience, with the man or his product, all viewpoints are welcome. And, I'm the arbiter, there is no further appeal process. For those that don't know the pecking order here, I own this Board, and answer to nobody. Try not to make demands when a request would work more in your favor. I'm against censorship, my delete button gets very little use. Don't make me use it.
Additionally, there may have been a statement that BM has been banned from every message board on the 'net. That is not entirely true, because he has not been banned here. In every case, he was able to work himself into that position all by himself. Should he decide to test the waters, there are no special rules that apply to him, alone. Anyone that gets rude will be watched carefully. Bill will get the same benefit of three strikes, and I hope it doesn't seem unfair to mention that ahead of time.
Also, this is not intended to entice him into an argument with anyone. I fully intend to protect him as enthusiastically as anyone else, should he be attacked.... I originally wrote: "without merit" but I don't care if you think you have a good reason for a personal attack, just save it.
So, unless there may be questions, I will move to the side for those with more important things on their minds!
Please, be cool. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32373 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Curt2u
Knows what it's all about
Member # 74
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posted July 27, 2003 02:00 PM
I have to say, hat's off to Leonard for providing an atmosphere where the pros and cons about this controversial caller can be discussed without the powers that be getting their panties in a wad. The biggest con being the maker of the product. Not a "flame", just a fact. I feel that the negative aspects of dealing with that individual are a huge factor in deciding whether to bother purchasing it. I can't imagine how many people would probably try this caller and possibly sing the praises of using it if a more rational acting person were marketing it. I have heard several stories exactly like the one Cal relates. I have been the recipient of countless whacked out e-mails...even when I was complimenting his product! (something I thought I would never do) It was not someone stealing his identity either. I have also heard from a "couple" people he can be ok too. Haven't seen that yet but whatever. I figure even Manson has his good days. Nuff said.
As for the effectiveness of the unit itself, when a few photos showing some of the success with the WT were requested, only two people provided any photos regarding success with it. They don't owe anybody a thing and I thank them for providing the pics. Very nice animals. However it really wasn't anything I hadn't seen done with handcalls or any other e-caller. I'm talking something that leads me to believe it really is "the best" as claimed.
Another person said he just didn't owe anybody any proof of his success. So be it. Don't blame us for being skeptical when he drones on about how great this caller is but won't share a couple photos of some cougars. (claiming something like 90 in a year if I remember right) Yeah, you don't owe us a thing but if I'm being told that I can't do this without this caller than lets see it. A bunch of it.
You would think that at least one page of the WT website would be filled with reams of photos of successful hunts with "harvested" animals if it was all that. (not random nature photos of butterflies, owls, deer and coyotes eating carrion. LOL!!) Photos of longline trapper harvests don't impress me when it comes to e-callers. Apples to oranges. I can see that in a O'Gorman catalog any day. Plenty of room for bashing other callers but none for real "proof of the pudding".
Also does anyone else remember a side by side comparison of the WT and a JS-512 a couple years back where the JS-512 out called the WT? I seem to remember it being mentioned but can't remember the specifics. Seems like I remember it also taking place in one of the countries "target rich environments".
Later, Curt
Posts: 236 | From: NW | Registered: Jan 2003
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted July 27, 2003 02:55 PM
I e-mailed and made a phone call about the WT.The answers did not sound that great.That ended my wanting of the caller.I do not know anyone that owns the unit.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 27, 2003 03:35 PM
First of all, I would like to say that I have never heard the new WT which uses the horn type speaker. I have hunted over two of the earlier models. Bob Davis had the first one that I had opportunity to see on actual hunt. It looked like a guitar amp. with a remote. Very good sound quality and very reliable remote, at least out to one hundred yards or so which was as far as we tried it on that hunt. I hunted with Bob Ruse in Washington state, and he was using the back pack model. That machine also was very very good. If the new one with horn speaker is as good as the ones I have hunted over in the past, I still have this to say about them. W.T. is still best electronic caller available today, but no caller is going to perform any magic. You still have to be a good hunter in order to have very much success in calling the critters. I have heard the stories about what a butt head Bill Martz is and all of that. I havn't had any personal dealing with the man as of yet, so I can't judge him at this time. I would still buy a WT if my bank account could stand it. That is just about as honest as I can be on this matter.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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JLDakota
Knows what it's all about
Member # 14
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posted July 27, 2003 09:20 PM
After having read many of the previous posts, I feel its only appropriate for me to provide insight into my recent experience with Bill Martz. After having purchased and received my WT from Gary Strader and my calling him on some details of the units operation, he informed me that he had talked to Bill Martz about his selling his back up unit to me, changing over the warranty and registering the sounds on the caller in an account in my name. Shortly after Gary hung up I received a call from Bill Martz. We spent the next hour and a half in a very pleasant, enjoyable and informative conversation about the use and applications of the caller and his experiences with its use in MN and other states in the north country. Near the conclusion of our conversation he said he would have to look up some info on something we were discussing and get back to me later in the day. I told him he could call anytime it was convienient for him. That night at 9 pm (my time) he called me from his work office with the info he had promised. This is an owner of a corporation who chose to call a person he didn't know and who hadn't bought the product from him, going out of his way to making my first experience with his product an enjoyable one. To me the fact that he made a point to get back to me that day because he said he would also told me something about the man. Based upon my dealings with Bill Martz, and service I consider above and beyond what I could normally expect in the marketplace, I would be happy to call him up in a heartbeat and order another should anything happen to mine and you can be sure I would. Jim
Posts: 19 | From: MN | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted July 28, 2003 05:12 AM
I have used the WT for the past 2 years. The sounds are outstanding and the caller has been trouble-free. There are only two things with the caller which require attention. You must remove one battery from the remote when you are finished for the day or your batteries will be dead the next time you start to use it. Also, sometimes the caller gets out of sequence. Just shut the caller off and turn it on again in a few seconds and it is back in sequence.
I have talked with Bill several times on the phone and it has always been a great experience. He is very knowledgeable and a good person to deal with. Most of the time, I tell him my situations and let him pick the sounds. He has given me a few sounds as well. I like the man.
I started with hand calls over 30 years ago and have used the electronic calls for the past 5. They have opened a whole new way of calling for me. I still use hand calls, but much prefer the electronic. Maybe they aren't for everyone, but that is why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream.
Randy
Posts: 567 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
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posted July 28, 2003 07:39 AM
Leonard,
Almost everyone here knows how I feel about the WT caller. I use it non-stop from Aug 1st to March31st every year calling various critters for guys that want to learn how to call these same critters. Some just want to shoot something, and some want to learn how to call something. Every unit has performed flawlessly, with not one breakdown in all the years the WT has been around.
That said, I consider Bill Martz a very good friend. He has always stood by me at every turn. He is also a big reason that Arizona Predator Hunts is as successful as it is today. Without his input and knowledge I would not be able to live the lifestyle I do today.
Leonard, This subject has been beat to death and it always seems to bring out the worst in certain individuals that just cant get over the fact that just because THEY cant do it, it means it cant be done. They start making up and posting numbers that aren't true. 90 in a year! Show me anywhere I ever said that! They feel they have to attack the integrity of people with petty little inuendo's to run them down for whatever reason, is beyond me. And yes, those photo's are in O'gormans catalog, and yes SOME of those critters were trapped, but you will find that a very large portion were called with the WT. An even larger number were NOT pictured because they were killed in the off season. The photo's were only of critters taken in the fur season. Which just proves my point that by posting pics, these same people will not believe the pictures anyway, and will find a way to discredit even what they see before there eyes. A case in point, I posted dozens of photos on the Huntseek board a several years ago,and this is exactly what happened there. So I deleted them and vowed to never post a pic again. Damned if you do and damned if you dont. I wonder why Craig O'Gorman is using a WT now?
As far as test's go, I could use two dfferent callers and make them come out anyway I wanted them to anytime.
The good thing is that we still live in a country with free choice and can buy whatever we want. I have always said that you should buy the best you can afford. I could care less what you buy. If you dont like the WT or Bill DONT BUY IT!
I know I dont care and I'm pretty sure Bill doesnt either. I just tell people what works for me and my business.
FWIW
Steve
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Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 442 | From: Cottonwood,Az, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Curt2u
Knows what it's all about
Member # 74
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posted August 05, 2003 03:12 PM
Just got back from camping.
Steve, it really isn't necessary to throw around Craig O'Gormans name to get taken seriously. You know I have a lot of respect for Craig but I and others respect your own accomplishments on their own merit. He is a legend however. No argument here on that. But Craig O'Gormans acceptance of the WT is not going to erase WTs problematic history no matter how outstanding I feel Craigs accomplishments have been. Unless he isn't the "no BS" kind of guy he strikes me as, I think if Craig was able to observe Mr. Martzs conduct in the past he may have a different opinion on the subject.
I truly believe you have been successful with the WT. That isn't the real issue some people have with it. The problem revolves around the way your friend Bill treated the general calling public. Along the lines of a chicken killing dog to put it mildly. And the fact that he posts blatant lies about other callers on his website to make his caller appear better. It's just bad business. Like I said before as long as he keeps it up, I will call BS on him.
For a guy that doesn't care whether anyone buys his product he has a consistent habit of firing off some pretty strange e-mail whenever the subject comes up. Even when it is spoken of in a positive light. He obviously checks the boards every day for the mention of the WT. Pretty strong interest in what people think, for someone that could care less if anyone buys his caller.
As for the "90" thing, it was wrong to say that without finding the exact post. My bad. I will attemt to find the exact quote for accuracy sake. It was some huge number that seemed like some photos of the huge amount of successful hunts with the WT could be shared if you were going to dwell on the subject so often. Whatever. I certainly respect your right not to provide something tangible. You don't owe anybody anything. I realize calling for cougar is a different game down there so I expect higher numbers. As for possessing some other-worldly skill at doing it....it's your story...tell it how you want. I have no doubts at all about you being better that most at it but you are really gonna bruise your back patting yourself on it all the time. LOL!
I agree people should buy the best they can afford. In my opinion the WT doesn't fall in those parameters. Admittedly largely not because of performance related issues. They are BIG issues though. The bridge is burnt. Not gonna change.
I can afford any caller I want and even if WT refused to sell me one I could find a way to get one. No problem. I never would consider it though. Wouldn't take one if it was free. Better stuff is on the way. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Our experiences with the man and the product are obviously contrasting. I hope your luck and positive experience with the product continues.
Good hunting
Posts: 236 | From: NW | Registered: Jan 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted August 05, 2003 04:04 PM
A few years ago Frank called Bill Martz to talk about his caller. Mr. Martz sent a WT caller out for us to field test. The caller worked fine, it called in a few coyotes but nothing to bragg about. It was sent back in the mail with a big thank you, I believe we told him it was kinda large and it cost way to much for the average guy, we told him it was a nice caller though. Frank told me Mr.Martz sounded cool on the phone, he seemed like a nice guy.
THEN, we met him ON LINE. It is not his caller that's the problem, it was him. Some of the things he said were down right lies and he seemed to love to badger people on line. GS of JS calls use to come in and talk to Mr. Martz but that ended real fast, I've met GS a few times and he is a class guy and a life long predator hunter. One thing Bill Martz told me was his caller could call in twice as many animals as any other caller on the market. Why would someone say that if not to push buttons? I have not seen or heard from Bill Martz in a long time, I hope maybe he has changed his ways. I kinda feel bad about the way I treated Bill Martz, if I had to do it all over again it would not happen, but thats all water under the bridge I guess. Besides it was about 5 years ago, maybe he forgot? That's my opinion of the WT caller and the man behind it at the time.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted August 05, 2003 04:33 PM
Steve Craig-
When did Craig O'Gorman switch over to the Wildlife Technologies caller? I was calling with him last August and he wasn't using the WT because of weight and inconvenience. I'm not questioning your word, I know a lot can change in a year. I'm just curious what it was that caused him to change his mind? Gary Strader finally talk him into it?
onecoyote-
Your comments on Bill Martz parallel what I've found. I think it falls into the category that almost anyone who debates online, seems to be a different person face to face. Because you can't hear the tone of voice, or see the facial expressions, it's hard to tell exactly what context certain things are meant to be taken. What is just in inquisitive question can come across as an interrogation online. Etc.
Posts: 97 | From: Nevada | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 75
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posted August 05, 2003 05:22 PM
Don't confuse cocky and bragging with knowledgeable/confident
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted August 05, 2003 06:12 PM
WhiteMtCur, I agree with you 100%. People need to remember, a person may be kidding and you take it a different way on the internet then you would in real life because of the reasons you just stated.
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted August 05, 2003 07:29 PM
Curt, you got those kind of e-mails, too?
Let's compare notes some time.
Posts: 658 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Curt2u
Knows what it's all about
Member # 74
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posted August 06, 2003 12:24 PM
Hi Joe, you have mail.
Posts: 236 | From: NW | Registered: Jan 2003
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