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Author
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Topic: Call volume and territories
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 07, 2003 06:10 PM
Been a lot opf talk hereabouts regarding different calls and why some guys like certain ones more than others, and one of the selling points some guys find in considerning a call is its ability to rattle the leaves in the trees with overwhelming volume. Remarks like how this one call has so much volume it makes all my others sound like close-in calls, etc., etc.. Ironically, one of the things you hear guys being warned about in using e-callers is to avoid too much volume. Hmmmm. Doesn't one contradict the other? How many of us have heard a jackrabbit squeal up close? How many of us know just how loud a rabbit or fawn squeals when it does?
Also, how effective can you be at calling coyotes across territorial boundaries when reaching out to the ones in the next township? Is it even necessary? Or isn't it more effective to focus on attaining a quality sound for ears within a half-mile to a mile?
How many of you actually try to call coyotes from a mile or more on purpose rather than do your setup, then move that mile and set up again?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 07, 2003 06:37 PM
This is (likely) one of those regional differences, Lance. I don't mind calling a coyote from a mile away, and I doubt he is concerned about boundaries. Sometimes it comes into play, but I worry about it when it happens.
So, yeah, I use plenty volume, sometimes on the first series, depending on the cover. Then, when I have something moving my way, I either lip squeak, or shut up.
If I can't see more than fifty yards in any direction, I might use a cottontail, or a diaphram.
I don't think volume hurts you as much as "they" say it does. If you have them within 250, (perhaps) I think it tends to queer the animal if you drop the volume suddenly. Thinking in terms of an electronic. Turning the thing off completely is sure to have coyote throw on the skids, so you better make sure he's shootable, when you do it.
And yes. There is a certain amount of contradiction. Can't be helped. You can't make book on brother coyote.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32370 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Hawkeye
Knows what it's all about
Member # 216
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posted July 07, 2003 07:34 PM
Ive only been calling for 4 years now but in last three years with new calling partner Ive found that dropping the sound when coyotes approach will usually slow down or stop the coyote havent had a single coyote take off. Makes for a much easier shot when coyote is stopped looking for the sound or if he hasnt completely come to a stop a lip squeak or bark will stop them for the easy shot.
Posts: 71 | From: Tucson,AZ | Registered: Jul 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 07, 2003 09:42 PM
I think that the advice "they" give concerning E-calls, stems from the fact that the call is over THERE not where you are. The volumne is most likely the same amount you huffers are putting out, only with a bit more clarity. I use reasonably loud volumne, but it sounds just right from where I sit, and I presume it's ok with the coyotes too? As for the boundry situation.....it is of no concern in my calling, coyotes come from there to here without checking to see who pissed where:) maybe that is an eastern thing, I don't know, it just never seems to be of any matter here?
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted July 08, 2003 06:54 AM
I'm of the opinion that a coyote won't respond to a sound he can't hear. So I start off about as loud as an actual cottontail for the first few minutes, if I don't see anything, the volume goes up and stays there until I'm ready to leave.
When I hunt with someone, it is rare for me not to do the calling. I once sat on a stand for twenty minutes waiting for a guy to fix his MP3 player. The speaker had been pointed back at him, and I had never heard the thing. I'd have sworn he'd never turned it on.
I've had a lot of guys tell me I call too loud, and they may be right. But I've been too busy shooting coyotes to turn the volume down.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 08, 2003 08:01 AM
Tim
Wow, Somebody that finally agrees with me. I can't believe the number of times I've been shot at for saying the same thing on some predator boards. Get their attention and hold their attention!
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 08, 2003 08:19 AM
There is a guy I get to go calling with usually only once or twice a year. He's a much better caller than I am. Every time I hunt with him, I'm once again surprised by how quietly he runs his WT box. My ears are really bad, and at least half the time, I don't know whether he's got it turned on or not. Sure works good for him. And I always come away from a hunt with him thinking I probably call too loud most of the time. Or at least, louder than I need to. We've all had coyotes respond to lip squeaks from nearly a quarter mile under the right conditions. Depending on conditions of course, I think they can hear the call just fine, at lower volume and from further away than we, or "I" at least, tend to relate with.
Last winter I made a conscious effort to use lower volume on the electronics than I normally do. Had my best dead coyotes per stand ratio in years. Of course, I didn't get out that much, small sample, and it could have just been I stumbled into better areas. For a guy like myself that doesn't get to spend many days in the field anymore, it's pretty much impossible to draw hard conclusions because there just isn't enough opportunity to compare scenarios.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted July 08, 2003 09:29 AM
I open with every thing I have in me, Are the machine has. My thinking is that if I am being torn to shreds. I am going to scream my head off. Till he eats my scream module.
I am going to stay wide open till I get a visual on him. If he slows down. I slow down. If he keeps coming I keep it wide open.
I know this is not the way most of you call. It is the method that has produced the most for me.
DAA, I can relate to your post. I have hunted Turkeys with hunters who made three soft yelps that I could hardly hear. They would not make another sound for thirty minutes. I have hunted with many that blast the bark off the trees, And keep hammering it. They both call in Turkeys.
Which is best?. I am the last person to know the answer
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted July 08, 2003 04:11 PM
I direct my first quiet and low series at the coyote that may be napping in a wash 50 yards out. I used to see one occasionally making like a scud after being launched 3 feet in the air out of a nap by a full blast call. These mesquite and palo verde that line all washes down here are great sound barriers. I've sat on the otherside of a wash from a caller and could not hear a single note that they blew. My 3rd or 4th series is full bore to reach out as far as possible which is why I asked you to make me one of your beautiful tulipwood calls "raspy, something I can really stand on."
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pup
Knows what it's all about
Member # 90
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posted July 09, 2003 10:14 AM
When I started out I had a 45 from Johnny Stewart, he advised to start out softer like then add volume. Seems to work fine.
later pup
Posts: 213 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2003
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Bryan J
Cap and Trade Weenie
Member # 106
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posted July 09, 2003 10:16 PM
The only time I lean on the call is on windy days.
I usually start with three or four screams, not quite full volume. Then start pleading and crying, and mix in a loud scream occasionally. I have no clue how far away I am trying to call them from though. I guess I’m concentrating more on playing out a scenario. Than how far I’m reaching out there.
We had a jackrabbit lit up one night and I decided I was going to catch him. I reached out to grab him and came back with a fist full of fur. He screamed 2 sharp screams. Since that day I started calling the way I do now. SOMETIMES, it works for me. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 599 | From: Utah | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 10, 2003 06:32 PM
Leonard, I'd have to agree that the issue appears to be one of a regional nature. You guys in the wide open spaces of the chapparal and desert southwest can often look from your sitdown and not see to the next road. In my region, that next two track is less than a mile in any given direction. The vast majority of hunting pressure around here is from trucks rather than hunters on foot or calling. Coyotes smell people all the time and the nature of the encounter is benign 99% of the time. Trucks, on the other hand, have this nasty habit of screeching to a stop and thundersticks start afiring. Ergo, getting a coyote to cross a county road in the light of day can usually be a challenge in and of itself. Roads often represent unnatural borders, as opposed to the boundaries they establish on their own, and I don't recall ever having called a coyote across a road. Probably happens, but I've not personally witnessed it before.
Most of my calling is to cover within a half-mile to my out front. The fragmented habitat common to this region makes it pretty easy to pinpoint where your critter will originate. So, attempting to call the coyote two sections over becomes a matter of economics. Do I set up and take the time to work him in to me over here, or do I stand down a little, cover this area well, then drive two miles and work him over from that side so he has to cover less distance? Some guys might say, "Let him do the walking.". But, again, those pesky roadways tend to hold them up. And I don't mind walking.
I start my setup with a short, moderately soft set of four or five squeals. I've had a number of coyotes stand up within the first two squeals and within fifty yards of me. If I see nothing, I go at it but I by no means am trying to blow the reed out with excessive volume. I find that I give up sound quality and accuracy in exchange for volume, and I'd rather have the former of the two. If, at the ten minute mark, I haven't seen anything yet, I back down and make each subsequent series fairly abrupt. That way, if I have a late bloomer, he has to work a little harder to bust me rather than snap up on top of me while my hand's in the cookie jar.
No matter how a guy does it, it's interesting to see what has worked for others and how those personal experiences lend themselves to each one of us' individual style.
[ July 10, 2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 10, 2003 06:47 PM
I'm sitting here, shaking my head in amazement.
I have seen uncounted numbers of coyotes crossing the Interstate, coming to a call.
A two track is their, as well as our, prefered mode of travel.
Regional, like from another planet. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Well, they are adaptable, I've heard that said often enough.
Interesting, to say the least.
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling
[ July 10, 2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32370 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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pup
Knows what it's all about
Member # 90
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posted July 11, 2003 07:52 AM
We are on sections also, but I have had several come across the dirt road, and I have had a few hang up on the other side. I won't venture to discuss boundaries, although I think that some roads are it sometimes. I don't like to call one toward the road.
The hangups and drive by's, cause me to look for a better stand farther in or away from the road. But, with the next road being less than a mile away, sometimes there aren't many options.
I normally go by stand feel on the volume, sometimes I just lipsqueak a few notes, then wait a couple of minutes, then go to the norm, of howls followed by but not limited to distress sounds.
later pup
Posts: 213 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 11, 2003 08:35 AM
Leonard
Your coyote(s) cross interstates and highways when daytime calling, or is this a night time occurence?
In my area it's not uncommon for them to cross Level B roads. That's a low maintenance dirt road that might be graded a couple of times a year.
Dennis
[ July 11, 2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 11, 2003 11:09 AM
Again, Leonard, if the most common form of assault on your coyotes was from that Interstate, I'll bet they'd be a whole lot more cautious around pavement. Imagine how they'd be if half the cars that went by there slammed on their brakes and started shooting. Or, better yet, if about every hour, a pickup on that Interstate would suddenly careen across the ditch and start after them, slam on its brakes and dump a half-dozen greyhounds. Yes, they do use our county roads as travel routes, and primarily at nighttime. Once, maybe twice a year, I'll catch one trotting down a dirt road and, if the wind's in my favor, I may be able to close the gap to less than a hundred yards. But, as soon as they realize where I am in relation to where they are, they'll run right out their own ass to get off that road and to the middle of the section. In fact, after Columbus Day, any coyote caught in the open away from the center of a section just doesn't last very long. Because I can only call in the daytime, unless I have snow and moon, I generally try to avoid bringing them to roads because they just don't like being exposed like that in daylight. At night, I've set up and called from the intersection of two country roads and had them come in from any of the four main directions. The only exception to this rule for me is when I'm way up in the rangeland and toolies where the grass between the tracks is knee high. And even then, it's a "maybe" at best.
Another planet, hell. We just got smarter coyotes.
[ July 11, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 11, 2003 07:17 PM
Dennis, both. Although, I admit that I don't make daylight stands beside the Interstate with any frequency, it happens, and they come in. At night, they patrol the shoulder, oblivious to the traffic.
Cdog, on this here planet, the situation is vastly different. Our citizens tend not to travel the roads with a rifle in the gunrack, and caged dogs in the back. And, they do not harrass the coyotes; that's where I come in!
Therefore, coyotes have not much to fear from vehicles, other than getting run over by one. I have noticed some folks on the Boards talking about how rare it is to see a roadkilled coyote. That strikes me pretty funny. We have many roadkilled coyotes, as they boldly cross the Interstate, day or night....how lucky can we get?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32370 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 11, 2003 08:14 PM
I see RK'd coyotes once in a while. So they must not be all that smart after all. But you know something else? How many times have you saw a road killed crow? Not many, huh. Me either. You wanna know why? It's because while one crow is down there munching that bunny pizza, his buddies are watchin' out for him. When a car come along, you'll hear them warning him to get outta there... "Caw! Caw! Caw!"
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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BARRY
Knows what it's all about
Member # 86
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posted July 12, 2003 07:27 AM
I think it's time for Q to join in on this one.
Posts: 10 | From: IOWA | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 12, 2003 09:33 AM
quote:
I think it's time for Q to join in on this one.
It's always good to hear from Quinton, rare insight from a relatively young man.
Good hunting. LB
PS ....besides, he shoots a Swift!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32370 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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