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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 11, 2026, 10:51 AM:
 
Just a little coyote info that I thought was interesting from a small local event.
I don't know the rules beyond it being a small local contest and paid in two categories - coyotes and nest predators (sponsored by NWTF).
What's interesting is that there was a 3-way tie for 1st (8 coyotes/team) with the winner determined by the weight of their 3 heaviest animals - those total weights being 101.2, 99.6, and 98.2 lbs. As an average per animal that covered a range of 32.7 to 33.7 lbs.
No real point to be made other than I used to see all kinds of wild claims made about weights of "back East" coyotes and these were real numbers from a representative sample.
An adult coyote is kind of a plain-vanilla thing weighing about 33 pounds. Time after time.

I missed check-in, but the rough photo I saw did not indicate any bobcats or foxes, but was hard to tell with the broad nest predators category.
I think 53 total won that category, probably almost entirely raccoons from the look of the piles.
I have not heard the total numbers, but they appear to be down - having been in the area that day looking for geese I'll blame that on the mud. Snow melt and temps above freezing would have limited access in a lot of places.

I probably should swipe the pic from a local newspaper just to drive the P ETA types fucking nuts - as always, the group photo is taken at the local American Legion with an M48 as the background, the tank gun featuring prominently in the photo.....
I have little doubt that somewhere there's a purple-haired, nose wrung fat chick crying over all the furries killed by the military hardware.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 11, 2026, 01:39 PM:
 
Thats cool. I see kind of same weights on avr. for coyotes. But also keep in mind my coyotes don't make it past 3rd. year. The ones that do are a little heavier in size it be like one out of 50 coyotes perhaps or 3, just depends. Another thing to take into account is was a heavy coyote killed just after it had a big meal? or one that's has been eating good.

Back East does have big coyotes but also take into account many of them live to a older age due to lack of hunters or calling skills or safe areas. And back East they just started really getting into them about 10 years ago or so.
Down in S-E of U.S. there has been many hunters getting into sport but lacked the skills or sounds to get them thus having a chance to get old and grow up. And many just skimming cream off the top thus the coyotes running smaller in size and weight. Some coyotes also eat alot of dead stuff with heavy bone and well have a greater tooth wear making a hunter think he go a old one. Bone is hard on a coyote's teeth as well as a dog and thus you see more wear also.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 12, 2026, 12:31 AM:
 
Instead of starting new thread I'll just pit this here. Coyote pup dispersion?

Some of the books say that YOY pups take off on their own come breeding time to find own mates. Not say it not true but here is what I been seeing lately and seen it here over the years.
I have a adult breeding pair living right next to town I spotted last year when out at night calling. They had one pup with them last year that I called in and killed and another got run over in fall on highway. Tonight, I located them out in a field with the breeding pair being together and one pup was just to west of them about 1/4 mile or so and another was just across the road to south laid up on a fence line about same distance away. And one pup also got run over this fall in same area as one year before. They follow a fence line and cross same spot every time they come through.
Here I been seeing the family groups still loosely intact and not far from parents. Been seeing this go on for some time. And I also see litters from previous year just set up shop in next good location also not more than a few miles from parents but also depending on cover and food as some maybe a little farther away but still there. Last year or year before I had eight still together in same drainage in another area till I removed most of them. Yeah, let's not forget the one we all read about that traveled over 50 miles looking for a mate, I sure it happens but don't seem to be the norm here. I have another area where i still have 3 coyotes running together and Nephew found four in same location the night, he was out solo. anyway just saying....
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 12, 2026, 06:54 AM:
 
Don't ask me, I'm just a retired trigger man!
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 12, 2026, 07:06 AM:
 
I can definitely say; ........... It depends.
Food.
Water.
Cover.
Population density.
Hunting pressure.
Year to year changes in any of the above.
Planetary alignment????
Other than six tits & howl at the moon, I don't think that there are hard & fast rules. Just general behaviors observed in different areas, subject to change. Nothing carved in stone.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2026, 10:08 AM:
 
Well, first of all, I say call off the search party, Ol’ Joe F must have made bail! No kidding, nice to see you drop in!

You know, I have always thought it was odd and bogus to break ties by weighing their “bag”?

We always line up and break any ties by earliest arrival according to their place in line.

A coyote is a coyote, it’s not like landing a Lunker Bass, or an 8 point whitetail. Sometimes, those YOY can be extremely difficult to coax into shooting range. I know “they” say that pups are stupid, but that’s not true half the time.

Our hunts were open to most predators that would come to a call. We had a point system.

100 points for a wolf or a lion. (and since there were extremely rare, including them was more like a poke at the bunny huggers.

Then, a bobcat is 15 points

ANY coyote is 8 points

a Badger is 12 points

and a Gray Fox is worth 5 points. No points for Red fox or Kit fox

That’s it. In more than 3 decades, I only remember zero wolves and 2 lions turned in, accompanied by documentation by Fish and Game, because they may be legal in AZ and not in CA, (for instance) and we had no geographical restrictions. A very few would fly to some choice spot, for instance. Of course, potting a lion assisted by a pack of hounds was strongly discouraged. This was, after all, a CALLING CONTEST.
However, since we only awarded trophy’s, no cash prizes. Money has corrupted bass fishing AND coyote contests, so we never had a problem with that type of cheating.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on February 12, 2026, 11:48 AM:
 
I'll have to check with my nephew for more details on the rules, his team wound up 2nd this year and have won this contest in years past. He's been known to have some rather strong opinions.....
There are usually multiple bobcats and a couple foxes taken in this contest, hopefully they are still scored in the "coyote" part of this contest.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 12, 2026, 03:03 PM:
 
If we're calling off the search party, what are we supposed to do with all of these milk cartons with the hand drawn photo and 'lost' poster. ??????
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2026, 04:39 PM:
 
I said all along that the milk cartons was a mistake! With some, you get more bang for the buck with beer bottles!Or, like if you were to turn up missing, would plastering your image on Meade bottles accomplish anything?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 13, 2026, 05:37 AM:
 
Probably not. I'm the only one who would see it.

Milk cartons .......... Years ago a group of us were planning an archery deer hunt to Utah. We were going to get the hunt on video. One of our members couldn't make it and just knew that he would be the butt of all of our jokes. He made us swear that we wouldn't mention his name at any time on tape & we all agreed.
After the hunt we had our big movie night / bbq and although we didn't mention his name, every time there was a camp scene, there was a milk carton with his photo on a LOST poster. We thought that it was a nice touch.


 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 13, 2026, 10:12 AM:
 
Interesting night last night.
I was calling some CRP and had a pair come in from the south across open field, they stopped about 500 yards out then started to circle to my left and went into the grass. wind was in my favor so was good to go there. Grass was not too thick, but they got into a low spot and could not see them any longer. Not sure how long i was on stand but I kept calling and watching hoping they would show.
Finaly caught movement about 500 yards out and had a pair coyotes come out of the grass at a dead run heading back to the south with 3 more coyotes on their ass. WTF? I watched it play out and two of the coyotes to rear finally stopped running and the third just flew right on by them. LOL
Not sure if one pair crossed terr. line or just got to close to other pair or maybe all 3 were males.
Anyway the 3 that ran out just kept going till they came to a road on southside of section and then stood there for a while and just looked back.
Meanwhile the two aggressive coyotes played grab ass with each other then they finally hooked up.
The night before had another pair hook up as well so I'd say the rut here is in full swing. Feb.12 & 13th.....
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2026, 12:25 PM:
 
Thanks for this report!

Coyotes are apparently breeding, on schedule, within the historically well documented framework of the so called: “Mating Season”. This is indeed, amazing news, if accurate? So, thanks for the update; our expert man on the ground reporting from southern Minetonka, Tim Anderson.

🤸🏿‍♂️
Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 14, 2026, 01:14 PM:
 
But .......... What about Estrous Chirps ?? ??
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2026, 01:34 PM:
 
GOOD CATCH, WATSON!

Bring us up to spud, if you can! I myself have always wondered?

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 14, 2026, 03:34 PM:
 
Only time I have ever heard estrus chirps is when a pair was in the grass stalking my caller, just chirps to communicate with, excitement of the hunt or maybe to help keep track of each other.

I tried chirps on my caller if they close enough to hear them. and gave good test last year with that sound. one of two things they turn and run or just walk away. would be great if they worked. LOL
Talked with few other good callers from different parts of the country and they see same thing.
This is how I look at it or seen how coyotes behave. You have a pair out in field breeding and another coyote knows he goanna get his ass whooped or already has, what's it going to do? one just stand and watch like Koko or take off running.

Lets look at aggressive sounds as well. if you have a family group out in front, they may respond to it looking for a fight but then again may not so I try to avoid those sounds unless nothing else works. as a group the others make each other feel tougher or more motavated..
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 14, 2026, 04:06 PM:
 
Yeah, my experience with chirps is to stand around and watch an empty horizon.

But .............. (and this is secret handshake stuff) have you ever tried 'Song Of The Humpbacked Whale' for;
(1) Calling coyotes.
and
(2) Really freaking out campers late at night.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 14, 2026, 06:05 PM:
 
No I have not but I do use woman screaming as a call back sound. (credit to Wildlife Tech)
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2026, 07:59 PM:
 
In all seriousness, have you ever heard the BLOODCURDLING SCREAM of a wounded Gray fox???????

I first heard it one night must have been 30 some years ago. Had absolutely no idea what it was, partly because there actually a few dwellings nearby. Confused and having just fired a shot at the fox but I/we had no idea, first, that I missed, but it’s such an extremely loud screech that you can’t put it together. Another thing is, if you ever encounter gray fox in mountains or hills; I swear to god, they move so fast and seem to glide, at night, if you follow the eyes, you have a lot more reason to believe you are tracking a great horned owl or a Golden Eagle. Because they seem to float and it’s a lot like flying. They are extremely fast and agile, and there is not any kind of bounce as when a coyote is romping in. I’m serious when I say that they are amazing little creatures, and they can most certainly climb a tree or a boulder way faster that a bobcat. I’ve seen a lion exhibit blazing speed at night, but they are gone just as fast. The Gray Fox is different, they seem to float effortlessly. Just amazing, I kid you not!

Also, if you have not observed it, a dead Gray Fox is damned near irresistible to a coyote! I’ve had a few literally stolen from me by coyotes! If layed on a rock where they are visible, a coyote stands a good chance of making a coyote hunter look stupid! I have several stories that are so cunning and resourceful, that you would not believe it. It’s better to actually experience it because when trying to explain it, even experienced coyote hunters are more likely to think the tale teller is completely full of shi! But, that is the secret weapon in those areas where they both exist.

And, by the way, Gray Fox cannot exist alongside coyotes unless they have undeniable conditions. They can only manage if they have something to climb, to get away. It doesn’t have to be trees. Like in some parts of southern California, there are huge boulders, and a Gray Fox can scamper up a vertical side of a granite boulder so fast that a coyote wouldn’t even try to follow. As I already said, unless you have seen it, you wouldn’t believe it….and I don’t blame you! It sounds unbelievable, you have to have witnessed it.So, that’s the key. Gray fox need to climb to escape coyotes. If there are not trees or boulders, they are dead meat! Because as fast as they are, a coyote will wear them down, unless they can get up a tree. That’s the secret.

And to hear a Gray scream at night will. send shivers down your Pea Picking spine! If you’ve heard it, you are fortunate, indeed.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ February 14, 2026, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 15, 2026, 12:01 AM:
 
Wish I had grey fox in my area but don't. ones we do have are farther north in few places with rocks, granite and close to major river and I think there some in S-E. part of state with same rocky outcrop.

I have all kinds of sounds on My WT and L.D. and don't think I ever bothered to listen to any of fox sounds but hey I'm going to check them out maybe there is a bronze bullet there.

Went to new areas tonight looking for some virgin ears. LOL Deer and bird season really screws up the coyotes as far as where they want to be, they get pushed out and lay up in farm sites or just open ground along a fence line.
I did call in a pair with WT as I have not used it in a while on first stand tonight. Some good old group howls and single howls sealed the deal.
Bad thing here is the ground is so on even in many places you only get one shot then they out of site.
Not sure how long it takes for a female to get breed once she has a mate and if they court each other or mate more than a few times. Pretty tough to call them in while they are loving each other, but they be hungry and more terr. soon after that is done.
Im not 100% on coyotes but know many dogs will not mate or can't mate on their first year of being born. wonder if coyotes are the same as at times, I see quiet a few young lone coyotes.
supposedly wolves' kind of same way only alpha male and female mate in a pack the rest either have to move out or wait their turn.
Got a storm I think is coming next week so hope I have few more days of good calling and have to give the grey fox sound a try..
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 15, 2026, 05:30 AM:
 
Grey Fox are awesome and always a treat to watch come in. They just glide in like a wayward summer breeze. Hard to describe but totally cool.

Another thing about Grey Fox, they're hard to run off. Miss a coyote & it's good-bye coyote, but I've missed Grey Fox with both pistol & bow and had them run off, only to come back in a few minutes later. The one with the bow was nicked on the flank and the one with the .41 never went completely out of sight.
It's probably a good thing for us that Grey Fox don't stand about three foot at the shoulder.

Years ago, I was channel surfing and came across one of those bogus bigfoot reality shows. The hero was 'communicating' with a 'squatch by making some goofy sounds that the 'squatch was responding to. The response was without a doubt a Grey Fox barking back at him, but hey, who am I to criticize good theater ?? It sounded good in the dark to the true believers.

And ............ Don't underestimate that Whale Song. Curiosity is one of the coyote drivers.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 15, 2026, 11:11 AM:
 
Sure, that sound of a Humpback may bring a coyote in, but it may also put one of those MPLS. whales in my lap as well. No thanks.eeeeew
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 15, 2026, 01:28 PM:
 
Once had a gray fox run up a meaquite, the trunk and out the branch that the caller was placed on, nose to the machine. Then took off the other way, all so fast you couldn’t react to it. I assume he got a good whif of the hand that placed it in the tree, not me, by the way.

Also they are very apt to stretch out and sleep in the branches of a tree. I only saw this in a cage at the county fair, but there were about 4 all lounging in the central branches about 4-5 feet off the ground, as perfectly at home as a monkey or a bird.

Good hunting. El Bee🐝
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 15, 2026, 01:46 PM:
 
I am pretty sure that the top predator in our local mountains, is probably the gray fox. These mountains are practically inaccessible due to the vertical terrain and brush, pretty much restricted to existing game trails. I’ve called up there in the San Gabriels when I was first starting and that’s what you will call in 9 out of ten stands. That’s how I know that they glide across canyons like a friggin’ eagle. Good luck making a shot. Yes there are coyotes, bobcat and lions, but the primary predator is the gray fox. They are so fast in negotiating terrain that the impression, at night, following them with a light, is that whatever it is, is flying. That’s the only explanation that makes sense, if you didn’t know what it was. It’s amazing, no other word for it?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 15, 2026, 02:39 PM:
 
Ah, c'mon Tim; Take a walk on the wild side. I've heard that one of those hairy legged lesbos could change your life.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 15, 2026, 08:53 PM:
 
I started a go fund me and plan to have all toughs dry land whales sent to AZ. I'm sure you guys could use some more shade.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 16, 2026, 05:36 AM:
 
.... OMG .....

You're going to try and DEPORT the innocent sexual orientation challenged land whales to an arid hostile environment ????.

I can hardly wait to watch the protesters on the news riot over THIS ill advised idea. You might wanna grow a beard, wear a hat & sunglasses and maybe slouch over a bit so they don't recognize you. Be careful; they can smell fear.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 16, 2026, 09:55 AM:
 
Apparently you have not seen Tim in his standard costume? He wears these Logger type boots that are up to the knee which immediately sets hm apart. I have commented about this distinctive footwear before and he claims they are not only super stylish but utilitarian to the max; and what every sensible Lumberjack would wear while topping Redwoods and slushing nuggets in the Klondike, besides also the best choice in ass kicking contests. Wish I had a picture?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I believe he wears the Paul Bunyan hi tops ?

[ February 16, 2026, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 16, 2026, 10:50 AM:
 
Logger Caulks ????

And I thought that the Stormy Kroemer was the required headgear in Mini-Soda ????
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 16, 2026, 11:12 AM:
 
I don't see anyone wear those hats here Koko, more of a western thing.

I think boots Leonard talking about was a pair Irish setter boots. Tall enough keep the snow out, protect legs from thorns and briars and very comfortable. what's not to like.
Later on at one of camp outs I stopped at Cabela's and picked up pair of hunting boots that came with gators you attached to the boots. Much lighter but not as warm. I did like the snake gators but not because of snakes, got them because or thorns we have here, think they called German olive tree's.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 16, 2026, 07:48 PM:
 
He manages to look like Elmer Fudd, but I have a SormyKormer I can give him. Really cool! Put it this way, Tim does not look local in AZ.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2026, 01:42 AM:
 
Well I thought you guys in AZ dressed little funny as well. chuckle, chuckle...

Tonight was pretty good night with 7 coyote's total.

I learned few new things tonight. I think rut is pretty much over for most from what I could see and now the females are little eager to respond to my calling. guess they either hungry now or being more parental and coming into pups fighting sound. Nephew was having good luck with that sound also and mentioned it to me so I used it tonight.
Most of the coyotes I called tonight came out of farm groves or were laying up on backside of them, perhaps this is where female plans to have her pups in future.
I also used both my callers tonight switching between them. WT wins hands down for distance, spotted some coming from mile but never seen any come from that far with other caller. WT female howls are also tough to beat along with group rally howls; it's been bringing them in on the run tonight.

I don't have gray fox on my newer WT so did not get chance to try it yet.

We have bad weather coming in two days roughly we may get it or it may stay north. I'm tired and going to bed..

Forgot to add. This week the wind/lite breeze has been out of west by southwest and southeast and east. Direction did not make difference as far as coyotes responding to call. Tonight was one of better nights and wind was from East. temps been running around 32-40 degrees. No moon but semi cloudy skies or dirty sky and one clear night.

[ February 17, 2026, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 17, 2026, 10:23 AM:
 
what would you say was the average shot distance on those 7 coyotes and what were the sexes?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2026, 11:28 AM:
 
My shots have been avr. at 150 yards for most of the season. 4 females and 3 males. Most males taken on single call in with females coming from double call in or more.

I got my taxes done for this year and got a big fed. check coming for overtime fed. tax paid in that trump is giving back.
Sooooo I just ordered a 640 thermal today with a built in Lazer rangefinder so I can get more range out of my 22-250 ackley.
I just put all the cartridge dope into the thermal, range target and thermal zeros in thermal for that distance, aim and squeeze..
thermal I.D is about 1600 yards vrs. 1200 on my other thermals.

[ February 17, 2026, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on February 17, 2026, 02:17 PM:
 
Tim.....you have run hounds and I have too.
For me both coyote and coon hounds. What I have noticed is, especially for coyotes, that my hounds had a very difficult time running with a due east wind. They could take the track for a ways and then just blow up. Other guys I hunted with said the same thing. I have no explanation for this. Maybe a humidity thing, but for me an east wind had predictable results.

In my experience, trying to call coyotes with a due east wind had little success as well. If a hound has a hard time smelling with that wind, so would a coyote and the coyote depends on his nose to stay alive. Hence his reluctance to come to the call handicapped.

Now I have talked with a very few hunters who said they had their best days with an east wind. However, I took that with a grain of salt because I was not totally convinced they even knew north from south anyways.

So my question Tim, have you noticed anything peculiar about an east wind?

Oh, one more thing. Thermal hunting for coyotes is ruining daytime calling. Notice I said thermal hunting because most of the coyotes aren't coming to the call in the first place.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 17, 2026, 06:17 PM:
 
With dogs I ran most any day long as it was not below zero, some good days and some bad.
As for keeping dogs on a coyote, it depended on which way wind was coming from and direction they were headed. Coyote running into wind easier to track vrs. running down wind or having a cross wind.
cross wind the dogs tend to run off set from actual track if scent is drifting good. As we know or most know a coyote likes to lay down wind at times on edge of cover and the dogs may not work the cover properly.
Sally was my best track dog if she so much as picked up a little scent and found nothing coming out of a wood lot or CRP she would start to work area in a circle and as she went around the circle got smaller and smaller then when you about to want to give up she would jump.
When guys group hunted with me they use to hate that and would leave after a hour or so as they wanted action. LOL So they drive off then half hour or hour later she has one up.

So I would have to say its more on the dog than the wind direction. but coyote running with wind is a tough one to catch.

I also try run on snow, better scenting/tracking and warmer the day the better. My dogs ran on scent/site/seeing the tracks in 2" of snow. that's how running walkers are bred. On windy ass days then yeah, I wish I had at least one tree hound to keep track going when coyote hit open ground in wind.

I'm calling mostly in 10 MPH wind or less, the other night the wind was so soft I could see smoke from my cigarette rise but it was still out of the east.
I did have one coyote I drove up on in the dark with east wind. got out of truck and set up my gear then went to scan with rifle, and a coyote was standing right east of me 100 yards out and acted like it didn't know I was there so I did what Koko would have done in my shoes and just dropped it right there. LOL

Only thing I can say also about east wind as it doesn't always blow as hard as a S-E, S-W or N-W wind. Some areas only way I can call them is if wind out of the east also. But we have had some heavy East winds at time so I stay home.

My coyotes are pressured the day they are born. LOL I try every time out to find a way around it. Pressured coyotes will tend to lay up for day out of reach of most hunter's way in back of their terr., I see this at home and also saw this in areas that Scott H. controlled, when he had the plane up to fly his areas I saw the whole story of what's going on and why, that's one lesson I learned by just watching. It stuck with me ever since. Up on Res. I had other callers come in to call and talked with some at times, they say scat all over the two tracks when you first drive in but they thought they covered whole pasture and say they not hungry or they just too educated. I looked at my map of pasture and soon it clicked and off I went and soon had coyotes in back of the truck. LOL
This year in most of good areas with cover my coyotes are not staying in it like they use to.
Now they laid up on high ground I call it, just brushy fence line and plowed fields and now I'm also finding them bedding in the farmers grove or close to it. most of farmers don't have any dogs to bother them like in old days.
So now you got handful of guys driving the gravel roads looking for deer, pheasants, coyotes and they are hunting the cover that all of them stay in.

So, if you were a coyote what would you do???

Simple, go to area with less traffic like a farm grove that don't have any dogs around or pigs bagging away on self-feeders. Wait till dark then go out and feed and get ass back in grove before sun comes up.
Be dam lucky to get a daytime coyote in my area unless you could find a big, big, brushy section and still no guarantee.

Also so far this year when out the humidity has not been very bad like last year, with thermal it's like calling in a fog when humidity is high.

I can't always have nephew with me at night, and I don't hear coyote howls like I use to so its tuff to locate less I'm close to them. But that is also an important tool. I'm lucky I know where most like to be, just need to be able to set up on them in my favor and play something they like.

Group rally howl on WT comes to mind. Pups are taught at young age to respond to this, and they still respond at older age it's programed in there head you might say.
Female invite next sound to come out of a caller, play it twice or play it four five times they don't care.
Both sounds played in this order do two things, one creates response to howl or to come in for a look. Don't see anything after 15 minutes then howl few more times, its natural. Get the 15-minute stand out of your head and just sit it out.

Now you got some spotted coming in, now what? Play some rabbit distress or give them some bird or WT Vole mouse?? Or give them something else? Here a prey distress can wreck a stand pretty quick so if used you better have a backup plan if they decide they don't want to deal with it.

Kelly J. always said its checkers, IMO its a chess game have least 2-3 moves planned ahead.

Right now, pups fighting is a good go to sound or a young lone coyote howl (WT) or a pup worrying over a rabbit. Ricks long hunts on L.D. pretty good. Sometimes if they are coming slow just let them be and maybe toss out lip squeak or squeeze a squeaker bulb or little vole mouse.
Sit back and light up a smoke and play the game. LOL
Stand location, try find a spot nobody else has called from you know the easy places, find those out of reach coyotes and don't be afraid to call close to a main road. Most callers drive in aways before they set up and call leaving coyotes behind them. LOL I guess you could say set up out of the norm from what others are doing.
I've had groups and few doubles I gone after over and over sooner or later it will click just don't make then go where they don't want to..
Take food dish full of food and set out for the dog then kick it in ass each time it walks up to the dish, soon it won't go to that dish at least while you are standing there. But take same dish and set it some place else and watch what happens.

P.S. my back up sound for very end if they are walking out on me is a "Women screaming". Pat sent it as a joke but after I listen to it Bill had altered it a little, its hard to explain but its like it has 4-5 different sounds to it that interests a coyote and gets its attention. Kind of like giving a coyote a shot of mist but stimulates its ears instead of its nose. Kind of like Koko having sex with his favorite girl and she is a screamer and gets Kok more excited.
Thanks for stopping in Randy.

P.S. Once my new thermal gets here Randy if you would like to borrow or try one of my others ones, I can send it off to you??????

[ February 17, 2026, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 17, 2026, 08:01 PM:
 
Around here, the prevailing wind is out of the southwest. During very specific times, seasonally, we will have what is called the Santa Ana’s which blow in from almost exactly the opposite direction from the desert towards the coast. Might have heard of this phenomena? Otherwise, an easterly wind is unheard of.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 18, 2026, 07:13 AM:
 
Here in the sorta high desert the sun tends to drive the wind. 'Generally' out of the South East as the sun rises and 'generally' out of the South West as it sets. Mid-day, it can blow from any and all directions, often on the same stand. Naturally, a Front coming thru changes everything.

>>>>>-----------> SuperPower factoid; When I launch my canoe on Roosevelt, no matter which way I go; left, right or across ....... I'll be busting whitecaps into the wind on the way back. Never fails.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 18, 2026, 08:38 AM:
 
I have flown over Roosevelt, and from the air it looks very interesting. It must be the largest lake in Arizona, even if you consider ….or maybe not, Powell, Havasu, Mead, etc. which are just damn caused wide spots on the Colorado River. But, I have never fished it, or boated it. But, it sure looks inviting.

Don’t normally associate lakes with AZ. or water, with AZ. Fuck ‘em for hoarding all the Colorado river water!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2026, 09:59 AM:
 
Yeah, storms kind of dictate direction of wind. We get Aberta clipper out of Canada and North Dakota along with all the smoke from forest fires as well.
We get storms out of Colorado as well which is S-W wind. southern wind but not much for storms just little wind. S-E and East just another direction it comes out of as far as wind. Once in a while we get a roundabout wind. It is normally a storm that comes into state from N-W and wind changes to west then S-W, then south and then S-E, east and then northeast.
And then back to n-w bye west and the rain hits us a second time or it just rains all day. LOL

right now wind out of west and changes to N-W at sunset. N N-W for tomorrow, N-W till Sunday night then Monday it changes to south.

So as far as wind and hunting goes, I just look for the wind to be less than 10 Mph and don't care what direction its from.
Nice thing about wind changing direction is it allows me to call certain sections to where I have a advantage point to see any coyote's approach. Or if I have coyotes in CRP I can call them out of the other side of it into the open field vrs. calling them to the road.

[ February 18, 2026, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on February 18, 2026, 12:40 PM:
 
Thanks for the offer Tim, but I'll pass for now. I have said before that I run a 640 handheld during the day.

Any comments on barometric pressure and how it applies to coyotes responding if at all?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2026, 02:54 PM:
 
ok. well, that's a start with handheld. Now carry it at night and just put light on a rifle and light em up when they get close.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 18, 2026, 03:26 PM:
 

quote:

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Any comments on barometric pressure and how it applies to coyotes responding if at all?

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quote:

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Not to mention some long hikes to get where you didn't see the truck. If you see it...so does ol Wiley Coyote!

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quote:

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edit: how many coyote hunters do you know that shoot factory ammunition? I bet damned few?

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Fred Eichler (spelling) Factory FMJ... LOL

To be honest I never bothered to look and see what others used, I just look at the powders listed in a load info according to burn rate and max. vel. and went from there. Sometimes Sierra will give most accurate load they tested and also recommend a hunting load. I will give up a little accuracy to get top vel. but do get lucky and get both at times. Lots of times if you back off on max load by 2-3.0 gr. you find most any powder will shoot bullet accurately, but I don't like a slow load as it defeats purpose of having a certain cartridge to begin with. Same with chopping a barrel off or using a short barrel.

Back in day when coming up with a cartridge and load for red fox to do least amount of fur damage I looked for smaller case than a 223 as they was hard on a red fox and no I didn't want to have to reduce a load for it. Instead, went to a case a little smaller but still loaded it to max.
218 bee was a little too slow and I didn't like a rimmed case. Stumbled onto the 221 f.b. which also had enough steam for 100-200 yard coyote. 17 cal. also came into play, 17 Mach-4 and 17 rem.. Both worked well on fox and close coyotes as well. switched to 30 gr. on 17 rem. it just got that much better for coyotes that showed up.

243 IMO. was just too much gun for fox and coyotes so I stayed away from that case and stuck with 224 and 17 cal. and lived happy ever after.
If I would of been into contests though I would of went with a 25-06 with 90 gr. bullet.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 22, 2026, 02:36 PM:
 
Leonard,
I agree with you in that I don’t like to shoot my 22-250 Ackley at anything except Coyotes. Especially paper. I’ve heard it said that when you get a rifle that really shoots well you baby it like sore thumb. I worked up my load 16 years ago and it is the same. Same Brass, same primer, same powder and charge and same bullet. Really the only time I am not shooting it at coyotes is about every couple years I’ll check my zero on paper and that’s usually 3 shots.

And no I seriously can’t remember the last time I shot factory Ammo. In any Caliber.

Good Hunting Chad

[ February 22, 2026, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on February 22, 2026, 05:02 PM:
 
Gordon's Reloading Tool is a very good program. It is free for download and gives accurate pressures. It requires a lot of prep before even starting. Such as H2O capacity, bullet length, seating depth, barrel length, twist and overall cartridge length. Once you get all those measurements taken and entered for your specific rifle, it spits out a lot of info.

Side note. This has happened once before and again day before yesterday.

We were hunting a new ranch we had never been on before. Unloaded the buggy and there was absolutely no wind. Forecast was for 5-10 mph N-NW. We were on the south end. Truck said the temp was -3 and the sun had been up for about an hour and a half.

Proceeded in and found a high, gentle sloping hill to park the buggy behind. I went about a quarter of the way over and down. My partner did the same.
When I sat down and got ready, I felt the slightest little wind on the back of my neck. Just a tickle. I reckon it was thermals. Don't have to deal with it that much around here.

Anyways, my partner was doing the calling and we had decided to start with a couple howls. Nothing else, maybe we could locate some coyotes. After the second howl, a pair of coyotes raised up from some yuccas about a half mile to my left. Howls aren't always a good thing because they were leaving. He saw them leaving too and immediately switched to some rabbit. Here they come running down the flat which would cause them to be directly downwind from the thermal. Even though it was very miniscule, I had a sneaking suspicion I was screwed. Sure enough, both took an angle and offered no shot. I ranged where they hit the wall and it was 308 yards. Quite a distance if you ask me considering there was no wind.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 22, 2026, 10:25 PM:
 
Hitting the wall, yeah, I see that often enough to keep it in mind, many times don't matter how you sit they still run down wind and pick you up. I think i seen a few hit that wall at 400 yards even or little farther.
Howls? Don't be afraid to mix them up on same stand or use different one on next stand, find a howl that make them click. If Howls not working and prey sounds are then don't howl, thing is here I don't have that option often. Coyotes running from howl just give them a rest from it. Young pup howls could be the ticket then pup fighting???????????
Get that WT out there in field...
Good news is now you know where two coyotes are and idea of how they like to play, throw them big curve ball next trip.
Ricks long hunts pretty good and no you don't have to match them to the season he has them marked at.
I'm just waiting here for weather to get nice again then I'll go back after the ones I couldn't get earlier, may make a stand in same spot as first time or just come at them from another direction depending on wind direction. Use two different pup howls should give them something they can handle or some female howls get a terr. response... Some nights I like calling with my nephew and have him run caller, he has a mind of his own on what to play.
Calling around family groups stay back and take out the pawns then come back for queen and king.

Randy, you have a range finder on your thermal scanner????

My Buddy and dog mentor was out in Eastern Kansas around first of the year again they took 37 coyotes at night.

[ February 22, 2026, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on February 24, 2026, 11:41 AM:
 
No range finder in my thermal, only in the binos.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 24, 2026, 12:13 PM:
 
I have been trying for years, explain misting, what it can do and not do and even where to use it. All to no avail. I never waste my time misting on day stands, you are better off being ready to shoot the fucker than trying to charm him with rabbit pee. It’s only an Ace in the Hole at night for the stubborn coyote that won’t stop for a shot until he gets directly downwind. And, at that point, it’s game over! Unless you are. misting a yummy scent and in that case, if you know it’s coming and are ready to line him up and put it between his eyes. That’s a bonus animal that you wouldn’t normally get, because when a coyote gets a good whiff of human, he ain’t hanging around. You might have 5seconds to get on him and pull the trigger. If you aren’t ready, you are wasting your time with the mist. I don’t know why it’s such a difficult concept to grasp, but it is and 90%. of the non misting folks never get it and miss use it, then claim it don’t work.

Okay, got that off my chest. Now misunderstand misting and the application and tell me I’m full of shit. I don’t really care.Shit, I didn’t even invent it, I just know how to use it.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 24, 2026, 12:52 PM:
 
Allow me to respectfully disagree. I use mist on day-time archery stands and feel that it has merit.
Is it a cure-all ?? Oh, Hell No.
But ...... When the wind is squirrely it can't hurt and can give a wee bit of extra confidence.

A wee bit I crack myself up sometimes.

Seriously, if it gives even a bit of an edge, why not ????
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 24, 2026, 01:08 PM:
 
Well, I guess I can see your point. I don’t archery but even prayer can be an advantage.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 24, 2026, 05:13 PM:
 
I have a few bottles of it but waiting for it to get warm enough so I can use it, I mean time I try to keep one or two dead coyotes in back of pickup for added scent. LOL
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 25, 2026, 01:04 AM:
 
Well here I was sitting at home with this new thermal I wanted to test out on the coyotes. 12-15 mph wind with temp. of 23 degree's.. I only looked through the thermal in daytime when I sighted it in and not sure how the night looks through it.
So I grabbed two loaded mag.s of ammo and rifle and caller and headed out trying to find a spot I could least be out of the wind a little. I had a nice brushy fence line in mind and knew there was coyotes around but not sure if I could get their attention in the wind or if they would come.

I ended up parking in field driveway with a few trees for cover, not very big but helped keep shine off the pickup. I step out of truck and grab the tripod and set up on downwind side of the truck out of wind a little.
I start to scan to south of me, and I have 3 coyotes just standing there looking in my direction, so I ranged them in thermal at 400 yards but forgot to push button twice to activate the ballistic crosshair for bullet drop and also new aiming point. I aimed on fur let one rip and just missed, all three just run off. LOL
I stood and watched them for little bit then I turned to north to scan and here is a fourth coyote out in field just messing around. LOL
This time I put rangefinder on coyote and activate the ballistic plex which is a red X. aaah I got that figured out now..
The coyote just kind of walking and sniffing the ground at 290 yards lasered so I just wait see if it stops which it did shortly. I give it a good loud lip squeak, and it turns broadside and looks in my direction. poof! Coyote goes down after I squeezed the trigger and I could hear the bullet hit good with nice plop sound.
I walked out and then used my handheld range finder and bounced it off the truck to double check, yep 290 yards. ooooooh I like that.
Turns out to be nice young female which got me to thinking that 3 of the coyotes are female and fourth is the male and these are same coyotes I called to last week when male and female was going at it in field. Just young females I bet to help out with raising the pups when they born.

So far for first time out I really like this thermal and just need little more practice with all the functions, positively I.D. coyote out to half mile no problem for sure. Thermal was also easy on the eye but have to remember not let a coyote get to close as it has a higher base mag. almost 10x I think.

So when I turn up the scope zoom it would be like 10+1,10+2 and so on...

The suppressor does seem to confuse the coyotes some as they don't just take off running like if you didn't use one, but from were I'm standing mine does seem little loud on the 22-250 ackley.
Other day sighting in thermal I got a headache from dam thing. Its still bearable but still loud enough to bother me.
Nephew also has a flow through, but he went with 30 cal which is about inch longer and he has been using his on my 22-250 Bergara and said his is not as loud as mine. Extra inch must make a difference.
Maybe have to get one like that also, I guess.
tonight, night weather is going to settle down and Nephew said he come out with me so we may have some fun coming up. Well I'm still cold and now tired so guess I'll turn in for what's left of the night.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 01, 2026, 02:04 AM:
 
we got about 3" of some nice fluffy snow around 3 a.m. yesterday morning and snowed off and on all day.
I checked tonight's weather and had 5 degree's, with N-E by north wind at 5 mph, Barometer was at 30.13 stable high-pressure system.
I saw 6 coyotes total but think truck was giving me away with the clear sky and 3/4 moon, just couldn't get far enough away from it.

Decided to head home but decided I'd make one more stop and try call this old male coyote that I called too 3 times before and things just didn't work out.
This time wind was in my favor to try a different location, and I had a high back on backside of ditch right of way so I could hide the truck.

Walked out 200 yards from truck and could not see it so figured I was good to go.
I started out with 5-6 howls and just sat waited for like half hour. Scanned area off and on and saw nothing so I lit up a smoke and waited little longer. I finished that and then scanned one more time and I saw what looked like dam big wooden fence post way out there. It didn't move but just didn't look right either so I played a few howls on caller and then I saw the top of it raise up which was coyotes head and it gave me a few howls but would not move.
I walked up to caller and turned it so it faces the coyote direction more and then play School yard brawl. Wham! The coyote was off and running right to me not bothering to play the wind and just kept coming till it got about 400 yards out and then stopped.
I played little more school yard brawl, but the coyote decided it went far enough. I turned on laser range finder and ranged coyote at 415 yards.
I had to wait for coyote to turn sideways then I put the ballistic plex on his shoulder and then squeezed one off. I got a nice bullet hitting flesh report and saw it was down.
I set my green laser on barrel of rifle and then marked the dead coyote.
I loaded up my 204 just in case and then found a field driveway so I could drive out and pick up the coyote, I just followed the green laser beam.
Got out to coyote and yep it was dead, no fur damage or holes that I could see.
415 yards is my new personal thermal kill to date.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2026, 10:59 AM:
 
That reminds me of something.

Quite a few years ago I was hunting with higgins and this area of Colorado had a lot of pressure day and night. IT had dawned on me that certain people have different concepts, about everything. We were told that this property was virgin territory, yet in casual discussion hours later, the property owner mentioned that his lawyer had been out the night before spotlighting coyotes. Well, what he apparently meant was that nobody had made any classic daylight stands using normal calling sounds and either hand calls or machines. They had just been doing their best to harass the coyote population. He would set his Foxpro on the hood of his truck while he tended his cattle, but again, this wasn’t coyote hunting as he narrowly defined it.

The consequence was that something I didn’t pick up on, but Higgins did. He was scanning terrain a half a mile in all directions while I was looking at engaging distances, maybe a quarter mile or so? In the first place a bobcat will climb right up your ass while you are scanning “out yonder”. Anyway, it took us most of the first day to understand how pressured these coyotes were, and yet the rancher had a naive concept about he property being virgin hunting ground. Go figure!

Anyway, at night, with thermals or a visable light spotlight, you can’t help picking up eyes at half mile distances, but daytime calling, I’m usually concentrated on what’s in front of me, maybe a few hundred yards out. I’m not scanning the mountains 3/4 miles out there, it pretty much doesn’t concern me, maybe next stand, or something. Everybody has their methods. But it seems to me, while you are looking for little dots moving on the horizon, a friggin’ coyote can cross in front and be gone before you can actually get a rifle to your shoulder! I’m thinking of moderately brushy.country as you can have in most parts of Arizona and western New Mexico. Even the barren flats of Nevada, you can’t pick out a coyote moving through the sage a half a mile out, so just give it 10% of your attention.

I think what I am saying is that we should be prepared to engage from a quarter mile inward, and the more time we are looking out beyond rifle range, the less prepared we are to deal with animals busting out of cover and in your lap & without a shotgun!

You have to deal with every stand as it deserves to be handled. and every stand is different and requires slightly different tactics. BUT, I do just fine without worrying about what is happening 3 hills over. Yeah give it a good scan when you decide to wrap it up, terminate the stand.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 01, 2026, 11:28 AM:
 
Good advice. Look far and a coyote will run right past you at 20 yards. When it happens, there will be at least one witness & they will tell everyone about it, in graphic detail.

Another nugget; Before breaking any stand, twist around and take a looky-see behind you. More than once I've had a coyote just sitting there in bow range with his head cocked giving me 'that look'.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 01, 2026, 11:50 AM:
 
You right about looking right in front of your stand.

Last year had a good spot to call but no place to hide the truck so I parked it in field drive on west side of road and then walked across the road to east and set up on another field driveway. I could just see top of pickup from my side so figured good enough. I called to east into a big drainage which was also a cattle pasture. 15-20 minutes nothing showed on the hill tops or down in bottom, so then i scanned to left and right down the road and then across road to my back side. I saw nothing. I did a reverse scan to get scope pointed back out into open pasture and as I crossed the road here a coyote was right next to me coming down road ditch. Dam thing got to close so had to hold till it walked out farther into pasture then I let it have a round.
Near as I could tell that coyote had to be bedded up in a road culvert and finally decided to come out.
Now days my nephew and me both do a long-distance scan as that's where we see most of the approaching coyotes and then when we reach a stopping point then reverse scan but look closer and just keep panning in that direction till full scan is once again made. Most of the stands here though the coyotes are spotted at half mile mark or just little less.
Even the coyotes that are little more educated even show themselves here at some point, either coming in closer or just moving parrel to our stand location.
Some of them we keep track of and watch where they go and then come back later in night and make a quiet approach close to area or section coyote was headed to. Little more caution is needed so may walk about 1/4 mile from parked truck if we have to.
Thing about a thermal is if coyote shows part of itself, it will be seen at some point, either coyote is glowing all white with darker background or glowing black with background being white.

Koko we shoot off from Bi-pods, if I'm alone then I do a 360 scan, if have nephew along then I can only scan to the point where nephew is standing without pointing gun at him. his job is then to scan from that point left or right and then back to front. Always know where partner is before we call and and if need to get past him back to front the gun is then pointed straight up into air till other shooter is in clear, then can point back down. On one stand nephew was to my right and a coyote came up a road ditch to his right, all I could do was stand there and wait for the shot from Nephew, he choked big time and I never got a shot as coyote ran back down road ditch with nephew between me and coyote..
On some stands I noticed if you want to kill a coyote within bow range bring a rifle along instead, never fails. LOL

[ March 01, 2026, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 01, 2026, 12:53 PM:
 
It's been my experience, gun or bow that with the dreaded backdoor / downwind coyote that the fast-draw attempt never works. The coyote's faster. The really slow shift into shooting position may work but probably won't. The coyote's smarter.
Best option ?? Try to anticipate where the coyote is going to bolt to and plan on aiming there. That probably won't wok either but at least you had a plan and tried.
......... And of course there will be a witness who will tell one & all how you missed a coyote at 30 yards with a rifle worth more than the truck that you're driving.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 02, 2026, 12:19 PM:
 
I had a coyote one time burning a hole in my back. He came around a real bushy tree, couldn’t see through it. I was using a hand call and after a several minute of silence, I did a loud rabbit growl and caught, or mostly heard this coyote that was about 5 feet from me fall over backwards from fright. I don’t even remember if I got him but he left the same way he came in around that brushy tree and I didn’t have a shot without repositioning and he was blocked out as soon as he scrambled to his; “feet don’t fail me now”! He just reared up on his back legs and fell over backwards, scared to death, by that Jackrabbit squall. He might have been close enough to bite me in the ass! You kinda keep something like that in the back of your mind….there after!

Good hunting. El Bee🐝
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2026, 12:48 PM:
 
Was out last night, wind out of s-e by S., 10 degrees for temps, some humidity, sky was pretty clear most of time and had a 3/4 moon. It felt or looked like we were daytime hunting. Seen few coyotes far off at 1/2 mile or better and just didn't want to come in. There wasn't as many deer out as the night before either. Only thing I can come up with is they was seeing the truck that far off but not sure. So, we went home empty-handed last night... My Nephew really likes my 22-250 Bergara, I hope he remembers it's still mine. LOL
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 02, 2026, 02:05 PM:
 
I do not understand this obsession with hiding the truck? You know; hiding it from what direction? I once had a pup coyote run right under the corner of the truck, between the central bumper and the wheel well, sort of a short cut, of sorts. I remember a guy, damn forget his name right now, he parked his white truck right in the two track. And it was a pretty brushy area, undergrowth on both sides. Set up his caller straight out in front of the truck 50 yards or so wide open and as he had no intention of killing anything, he was sitting in the cab and watching straight down the road at the caller.

When the coyote came in from the side, and further out, he turned and came straight down the middle of the road to the caller . and he filmed it. It was impossible that the coyote did not see that 3/4 ton white Dodge truck as he ran straight to the caller. I don’t remember how it ended, prob veered off and got the hell out of “Dodge”?

Anyway, if it makes you feel better to spend so much time hiding the truck, by all means, knock yourself out! But, I think folks out west, TX, AZ, CA, NV, NM, etc. they treat the vehicle as a part of the environment and don’t fret about it too much.

Now, can you recollect a time that the coyote came from that direction where you hid the truck?

Well, there is a valid concern at night with a full moon. Calling from the truck, coyotes will, indeed see you! and. that’s not a good situation.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: The guy doing the filming was a good friend Jay Nistter, his name momentarily escaped me!

[ March 02, 2026, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 02, 2026, 02:29 PM:
 
I remember on one of my Bill Austin tapes that he maintained that to a coyote, a truck that was moving was 'Awake' and a possible danger, where-as a parked truck could be 'Asleep' and not as much of a threat.

I know that WD-40, dust & a spot in the shade go a long ways. What goes on in a coyote's tiny little mind is what the fun is about arguing over.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2026, 05:29 PM:
 
well, its like this on a clear night with little moon. The moon glow can reflect off of parts of the truck, coyote see's it and just don't like it, not normal to them. I'm not spraying WD-40 on my windshield. LOL Maybe its just the outline of the truck they see, don't look normal to them, either way they won't come in or make one hell of a big circle if they do. And yes, at times I've had them run up to truck and even had two just stand there after i pulled up and got out, aimed through thermal and then killed them. But that's not the norm.
Coyotes head is only roughly 24-30 inches off the ground so yeah, they not always going to see well till they stop on top of small hill or ridge and thats when alarm or caution flag goes up.

Roads here run north and south and east to west so when calling I'm calling to right side of truck or left side or both as well as in forward direction.
At times I can park in field approach and hide one side of the truck from a coyote's approach but then you end up with one on the side you could hide. LOL Darker nights we just walk far enough away from truck till we can't see it which is about 100 yards give or take. Most times there is nothing there to break up outline of the truck.
Last night we parked in field approach, and I would stand to block the driver's side window from reflecting and Nephew stand in front of headlight or taillight lenses. LOL
I do have a burlap camo tarp I could throw on truck but that's just more work involved but is still on back burner and maybe next move.
Also just standing there behind a Tripod isn't good either but don't have much of a choice there.
I'd would rather sit in a chair or on ground but to old for the ground these days. LOL
I'll think of something but also like to keep amount of gear along to minimum.
Got some good nights coming up and the snow melted again which will help to blend in I hope.

Not sure if I should mention this but been thinking about a 22 Creedmoor, I can get another 200 or so more vel. out of it verses the 22-250 imp. Its just a thought. LOL
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 02, 2026, 06:43 PM:
 
Ok ........... Thinking out loud here and probably talking out my ass, but ..............
'IF' ...... you have a good idea of from where the coyote will come from ......
What would happen if you took one of those low lumens solar sidewalk lights, mount it on a stake about 4 foot high and stick it in the ground about 10 yards from the truck towards where you expect the coyote to appear. Far enough away to not light up the truck.
My thought is that it would not be bright enough to alarm. Possibly to be mistaken for a star or a far away light, but bright enough to blind the coyote's eye to anything behind it.
Then ...... go out in front of the light and set up like you normally would.
Even more better, if you could leave the light for the coyotes to get accustomed to it.
If it works, I'm a genius. If not you're out about .99 cents.

Edit 4 speling.

[ March 02, 2026, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Kokopelli ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 02, 2026, 08:45 PM:
 
Good idea I think maybe something to look into. at least see how a coyote reacts to it would be educational if anything.

I do have a spotlight that uses the old headlight bulb with long cord on it. more of a flood light than spot light. Hmmmm

The thermal doesn't pick up light so that's good thing...

[ March 02, 2026, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 07:30 AM:
 
“Not sure if I should mention this but been thinking about a 22 Creedmoor, I can get another 200 or so more vel. out of it verses the 22-250 imp. It’s just a thought. LOL”

Ok I’ll bite. What load do you think you are going to shoot in a Creed that will beat the Ackley by 200 fps? Enquiring Minds want to know.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2026, 10:48 AM:
 
Yes! I want to know that, myself! I seriously doubt it! Historically, brilliant ideas such as the 220 Weatherby Rocket or maybe a 22/‘06 Improved? But, I want something where the barrel will outlast load development.

If there IS a .224” cartridge that will perform beyond the capabilities of the 22/250Ackley Improved with a 40 degree shoulder, I do not need it! A more perfect dedicated coyote cartridge does not exist, and likely, never will exist!

Goor hunting. El Bee

edit: ko ko….my Dear Boy, I would hate to stifle your fertile young mind! However, your suggestion is not only naive nonsense, it would contaminate the local environment sufficiently that any benefit would be negated by the negatives.

Let me expand to illustrate. In Africa, my guide had self educated his JACKAL-COYOTE night stands. He built a plywood box that was about 4 foot long and a bit more than a foot wide X about a foot high. Inside he had an auto battery and a starter motor with a shaft the stuck up through the enclosed cover. This thing probably weighed at least 40 pounds? On top of the shaft he had a realistic taxidermy rabbit in an upright configuration.

Back at his vehicle, he had a momentary contact button attached to a wire that activated the starting motor and this was a very loud whirring sound exactly as you would expect an automotive starter motor to be….loud and the fucking rabbit spun like a friggin’ top!

His method was to use a CD player to play animal distress sound. If and when he picked up any animal’s eyes, like a jackal, he would press the doorbell and the whirring rabbit would scare the timid jackal away. Coyotes look amazingly like Jackals except for a black stripe along the side. But coyotes are a lot bolder and assertive than are jackals, which are timid, perhaps because they are about the third rung down the predatory scale? Even the vocals are high pitched and closer to a rat than a coyote bark or howl.

As you can imaging, I did not wait for a second demonstration before forcefully expressing my negative opinion. Just the problem of opening gates and manhandling the ackward box and then walking the cable back to the vehicle….he had already made so much noise to announce his presence. But amazingly, we did manage to pick up eyes, and it was a pair of jackals milling around in a circle or just pacing back and forth, it was hard to tell. Then, when one took a couple steps in the direction of the speaker inside the box, he would activate the starter motor, and he would illuminate the box so that the jackal could more easily see the loud spinning rabbit!

All I can say about this abortion as an exercise in futility is, what? a jokje? An exercise in futility/a waste of time and energy? Yes, all of that and unproductive, to boot. We eventually got a few jackals the old fashioned way1

Anyways, your suggestion is sorta like fucking around and contaminating the stand with noise, tripping and shuffling over displaced rocks, etc etc.

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

[ March 03, 2026, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 11:03 AM:
 
If I were a betting man I would guess he’s going to say that it will be done with Superformance powder or 6.5 starball. Both of which are inconsistent both with accuracy and velocity. Either that or he is just regurgitating the loads published in the reloading manuals. Which is a joke.When the 22 Creed hold 52 grains of water, and the .22-250 Ackley holds 51 grains of water it’s hard for me to believe you will get 200 fps more out of the Creed.

[ March 03, 2026, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 11:51 AM:
 
62 gr. for starters 3850 fps. Hornady load/ ackley is 3600 fps.

55 gr.3950-4000 fps./ ackley 3800 fps.

Yeah its from a fucken reloading manaul where else you going to get it from. LOL make you feel better 100-180 fps. faster than ackley.

And whatever your ackly gets in land of Ozz it doesn't jive up here. elevation I guess.

No loads listed for 52 gr. but my ackley gets 3900 fps.

[ March 03, 2026, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 11:59 AM:
 
EXPERIENCE Tim, don’t be a dumb ass!!!!! Look at your 6th edition Sierra reloading manual. Compare the 60 grain load data with RL15 in the 22-250 Remington and then look at the same thing with the .22-250 Ackley Improved. Then come back touting your bullshit numbers.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 12:03 PM:
 
Sierra is mild on loads everyone knows that.
I use Nosler/Hodgdon data for my ackley and creed is about, roughly 100-180 fps. faster 55 gr. and up.

22-250 3500

22-250 ackley 3600 fps. 60 gr. bullet

Hornady lists 62gr. at 3850 fps in "creed"

another site lists it at 3750 fps.

another site with a 50 gr.
3970-4000 "Creed"
22-250 ackley 3900 fps.

No matter how you look at it its still a gain and upside is the creed will feed better.
22-6mm not that great so thats out..

[ March 03, 2026, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 12:07 PM:
 
For the last time my loads are not LISTED!!!!
Mine are chronographed with a Garmin Xero C2 Chronograph so I really don’t care what your manual says, I know what my loads shoot. And yes I know I can get to 3800 fps with a 52 grain bullet with my 21” barrel. Add 3” and I would be 3900+ fps. 39 grains of RL-15 will get you to 4000 fps with a 26” barrel…..Even if your manual doesn’t say so.

And If I’m not mistaken Leonard is running 65 grain bullets 3900 fps in his .22-250 Ackley and if I’m right he lives right about sea level.😉

[ March 03, 2026, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 12:24 PM:
 
yeah I have two chronoys as well.

rl-15 3877

Varget 3922

4895 3951

26" shilen 1-14"

But also keep in mind if you are getting much higher vel. in a ackley where you live then the vel. for Creed would be just as much higher ..

[ March 03, 2026, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 12:24 PM:
 
You just proved my point Tim. The numbers are all over the place depending on the manual you look at. The only way to know is to shoot the loads yourself. But that might be to much work for you.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 12:29 PM:
 
52 gr. is all I shoot. 3900 with H-380. Can get little more with Vitavori also but have not gone back there as that was loads for older barrel.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 03, 2026, 12:41 PM:
 
Suppose, for the sake of argument, a 22 Creedmore is capable of 200 feet per sec OVER what the 22-259 Ackley is capable of, Who needs it and why? Racking my brain, maybe super long 77 grain long range projectiles? This is venturing into sniper shit, and Strikes me cold. All this long range hunting fad bothers the shit out of me, as it is! I have zero use for the whole entire long range movement! I cannot translate that stuff in to coyote hunting methods, day or night.

First of all, my 65 grain loads is 3925 fps and with a 28.5” barrel in one rifle. It is the one I use at night. I was going to mention daylights, but for at least the last 4 years, I’m using a 22/243 Middlested, and I don’t know offhand a water case capacity, but it looks to be MORE than the 22-250 Ackley or a 22 Creedmore, but I can’t get over 3800fps with the same bullet. Barrels can be fast and barrels can be slow. And, considering distances-daytime, it’s still almost overkill. There is absolutely no need for more velocity than that, even if someone is using 55 grain spitzers.

TIM/ you do not need 200 fps more than a 22-250Ackley! For a multitude of reasons. Sometimes I do not know about you!
There! I’ve just saved you $1,500.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 12:42 PM:
 
old ackley barrel;

n-540 br-2 primer 4060 fps.

N-540 fed 210 primer 4100 fps.

4064 4050 fps.

N-140 4046 fps

A 52 gr. A-max or ELD will get me more vel. over a 52 gr. sierra and the fed. 210 primer gives little as well.

Real world loads.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 01:01 PM:
 
I thought about trying a 53 grain VMax with a B.C of .290 a while back and I know I could get 3800 fps with my 21” barrel. But my 60 grain Bergers shoot so well (.3’s) at 3650 fps I decided to bag that idea. And they really hammer the coyotes.

Again I find it very hard to believe the Creed will give you 200 fps increase in velocity over the Ackley with 1 grain more capacity.

I think all the inflated numbers are from Hornady to sell more 22 Creed ammo and guns. Propaganda

[ March 03, 2026, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 01:46 PM:
 
Not disagreeing with you Leonard..

Here is the deal, if I go with a 50 yard zero on thermal

50 yd. 0 75 yd.0
100= +3 100 yd.0 +1.0

200= +7 +1.0 +3.0

300= +8 -2.0 +1.0

400 +3.3 -10.0 -6.0

500= -8.0 -25.0 -20.0

My new thermal has a ballistic calculator built in, just range and shoot. No big deal..

But my other two thermals don't have that, so I need a zero or less drop to allow me to aim on fur out to 400 yds. so this is where little more speed comes in with less drop.
My 204 fills that void for one of my thermals with 35 gr. berger bullet.
Maybe just sit on road with lights on and shoot them up close. LOL
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 03, 2026, 01:59 PM:
 
The 22/250 AI has 50.90 grains water capacity.
The 22 Creedmore has 48.20 grains water capacity.

With a 20 inch barrel, I run the 53 grain vmax at 3780. With the 26 inch barrel, I run the 55 grain Nosler at 3945. I have been over 4000 with the Nosler, but was beyond the accuracy node and seeing too much pressure to reach the next safely. The 55 grain Nosler is a far superior bullet than the vmax when it comes to killing coyotes. It has a thicker jacket and you really have to push it in order to see good results. I just can't push it fast enough in the 20 inch barrel.

I wouldn't own a Creedmore.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 02:01 PM:
 
Chad I don't look at advertisement from any company on what's hot or not, but I am looking at what is there and seeing if I can gain anything without having to go to too heavy of a bullet. Just weeding through all load info from as many as I can find and go from there and hopefully find middle ground.

My Nephew is all high tech. and likes play with his ballistic calculator which can give you pretty good numbers depending on what you want. Lots of new powders on the block as well like CFC gives dam good vel. in some cartridges. I just tell him what I want or looking for then he does work and finds info I need.

maybe that creed needs to be improved (ackley)????

My other choice for a build would be the 224 Valkrie in a bolt gun. Mine loves the 62 eld.s in AR but I hate those dam guns. LOL

I know you stuck on the 60 gr. but wouldn't hurt to look at the 52 gr. or 62 gr. ELDS for your ackley, both plastic tip with good B.C. and they hold together better than the V-max's or others.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 02:16 PM:
 
Randy that's why I stuck with the 52 gr. A-max/ELD, its not the same animal as the V-max's, it does have a heavier jacket and pretty good B.C. if your gun can push them along. and you gain little more vel as well.

I shoot 62 gr. ELD in my 224 valkrie, bullet works well just the Valkrie lacks a little in speed. I may try this bullet see if it will work in my ackley and also try the 52 gr. ELD in Valkrie to get little more speed out of it. LOL

52 gr. Berger has been good bullet in 22-250 just don't like it past 300 yards. (good fur bullet)

I did a test in my old ackley with Sierra 52 gr. and the 52 gr. ELD and got 100 fps. faster out of the ELD.. I think the 52 gr. Sierra has more bearing surface thus more drag.

the creed holds 52.6 grains of water filled to the top, another source says 51.5..

[ March 03, 2026, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 02:19 PM:
 
My experience mirrors Randy’s as far as the Ackley and what it can do velocity wise.

As far as Ackley the 22 Creed, then guess what you have? A 22-250 Ackley. That’s why you see some of the Ackley guys buying the good Alpha 22 Creed brass and fireforming it in there Ackley’s.

The magic of the 22 Creed is supposed to be in its 30 degree shoulder.

I guess my way of thinking is Parker O Ackley created the damn near perfect Coyote Cartridge 75+ years ago, and now somebody is trying to rebrand it as the new end all be all round for coyotes and change the name to 22 Creed…..I’ll stick to the tried and true Ackley…..

And as far as the 60 grain Bergers go, they have been a great bullet for me out to 400 yards. If it ain’t broke why fix it.

[ March 03, 2026, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 02:27 PM:
 
Yes the 30 degree shoulder is better choice over the 40 degrees.

A bench rest shooter here has a ackly if want call it that with a 30-degree shoulder but I don't think he is getting the same vel. as the 40 degrees. He showed me some of his loads and thought they was a little light. But I guess it chambers better.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 03, 2026, 02:36 PM:
 
My oldest son has been bitten by the 22 Creed bug. And has told me how much better the Creed is than my Ackley. Given me all the same old tech talking points and such. At the end of the day you are not going to see a lick of difference between the two.

[ March 03, 2026, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 03, 2026, 03:29 PM:
 
well not much for a choice on rifles out there for Creed. Maybe go with another ackley with longer barrel instead. I'll think on it. I hate having two rifles with same case though. But then again if creed is same thing as ackley that wouldn't hurt either. LOL

[ March 03, 2026, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 04, 2026, 10:15 AM:
 
Especially since you’ve got the Ackley dies and brass. Really makes no sense to me to buy all the components and new 22Creed rifle when all you’re getting is a glorified 22-250 Ackley. But hey it’s your money.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 04, 2026, 01:22 PM:
 
DAMN!
First of all, TA, why fuck around with 52 grain bullets in a 22;250Ackley? IT doesn’t make sense. There are many reasons for using a 60 or 65 grain bullet because you have the horsepower to drive that/those bullets to 52-53 grain speeds,

Now, what exactly is the magic is a 30 degree shoulder over the 40 degree? With the Improved Ackley, I NEVER TRIM CASES! PERIOD!
Brass lasts at least 10 reloads and the attrition is only do to an occasional empty case flung into the bushes during a fast and furious high multiples. Otherwise, my left hand is always blocking the case so that it usually drops into my hand. I treat them as precious, and take care of them through the life of the barrel.

The most I ever do is an occasional shot at something, depending on the temperature and/or the elevation. After load development, I never waste bullets, brass and or cartridges on shooting groups. I already have that stuff figured out during load development. I have a pretty good idea of my mid length trajectory and holdover is not much, and for sure I do not need to dial clicks in order to shoot eyes inside 400 yards; which is my self imposed practical limit. Unless maybe it’s a cat and I have him very well landmarked.

I really don’t know about this Creedmore babble? If for no other legit reason, just to be contrary, I hate the idea of a Creedmore anything. There is very little magic in a cartridge case besides maybe a 220 Russian or some such? That’s why my daylight predator rifle has been a 22-243Middlested. Yes, it’s based on a 243Winchester case, and I just can’t find anything wrong with it? It’s in 22-250AI ballpark and came with an extra barrel in 22-250Ackley. I have not ever bothered to even screw it on, and for the life of me, I don’t know why the old timer that oowned it even bothered. ‘cause to me it doesn’t make sense? He was the type that documented every round. You never know the lengths that a retired old coot will go to? So, I’m rambling, but we are splitting hairs to worry about the exact shoulder angle or the one less grain water capacity. It’s basically still minute of coyote anyway you slice it.

That’s what I think anyway
Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 04, 2026, 03:02 PM:
 
The Middlestead was one I gave some serious consideration when I was rebarreling my rifle. Inevitably decided to go with the .22-250 Ackley. But still the Middlestead was a very close 2nd. Has more horsepower than the .22-250 Ackley and has a bit of the cool factory for sure. I bet I could get the 60 grain Berger to 3800 fps even in a 20” barrel….😉

[ March 04, 2026, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 04, 2026, 03:13 PM:
 
Oh and supposedly the 30 degree angle for the shoulder is the magic angle for superior accuracy. On a side note the .22-243 Middlestead has a 30 degree Shoulder.😁

[ March 04, 2026, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 04, 2026, 03:16 PM:
 
The 52 gr. kills them just as dead as 60 gr., out to 400 yards there is little or no gain by going to 60 gr. IMO. Fast and flat which means less hold over which i hate. There is no click adjusting at night on a thermal. Basically, a thermal is a digital camera which reds off the heat source, and you cannot even see the green laser beam from my spotter.

I put up the drop charts just have to figure which one is best 50 or 65 yard zero. Leaning toward the 65 yard zero. You could do same at 100 yards but at night its just that much easier to shoot at shorter range to set proper zero and see where bullet strikes. If I site in at 100 yard target you have to walk up and check target see where you hit at 50 yd.s or so you don't.
Anyway, a little faster the bullet goes the drop, or rise is that much smaller thus flat shooting out to 400 yards.
I can't find crap for a donor rifle to play with in 22 creed so now plan is to do another ackley build but with a 26" barrel instead of 24" or may drop down a little in twist and shoot a 62 gr.ELD. but need to run some numbers first when I get time.
If I use my thermal with the ballistic drop and laser, then no big deal but want something for thermals that dont have rangefinder capability.
By the way the 52 gr. ELD's are very accurate in my rifle and hold together like they should compared to a V-max. so no need to go heavier.

I shot a few coyotes so far with my 224 Valkrie with a 62 gr. and works ok but sure could use little more speed, so may drop down to 52 gr. later for that cartridge.
I'm still in process of getting one or two 17 cal.s set up for night time use and still working with the 20x47 Lapua. CFS powder does well in putting out good safe vel. and want to try that in 20x47 but then I have to see how the 35 gr. berger or 40 gr. bullet handle that much speed if I can get what I'm looking for.

nephew has my 22-250 Bergara and he is testing the 52 gr. ELD in it today along with CFS powder and should get around 3900 fps. which is dam close to what the ackley does.
I don't see a CFS load for the ackley listed so not sure if it would work in ackley, if it would that be another 50 fps. or little more added.
Haveing just one rifle IMO is boring. LOL
But it is fun dumping coyotes with a 17 centerfire while another guy standing there with a 243 in his hands and has to do a double take. LOL

Randy drop me a Text sometime, I lost your number again on phone.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 04, 2026, 03:28 PM:
 
Quote; Ron Reiber, the former (now retired) head of the Hodgdon ballistics lab for many years, told me that a 30-degree shoulder resulted in the most consistent velocities and pressures during their testing. Any variation from 30 degrees and both velocities and pressures varied significantly more--the reason both the 6mm PPC and 6.5 Creedmoor have 30-degree shoulders. : unquote

quote:

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My opinion is there's still some that can benefit from the 'A.I.' even in the modern world of cartridges. The 257 Roberts is right at the top of the list. Another would be the 223 Ackley. The 22-250 Ackley Improved is a good one, even though the 22 Creedmoor is essentially the same thing...albeit with a 30 degree shoulder.

This is my '22-250 Improved 30 degree', more commonly known as the 22 C..Cr..Cre..Cree..Creedmoor (can't hardly make myself say it). sick

Honest .250" five shot groups at 3,800-3,850 with a 52 gr. bullet, just like a real 22-250 Ackley Improved. I used Lapua 22-250 cases in it so it's a bit more palatable than the CM handle.

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Shit, I was doing that 30 years ago, Tim.Then I went with Wilson straight line hand dies. I used to spin cartridges, just for something to do.

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Pickatinni scope mount

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edit: what we should maybe do is start a thread, to settle what makes a good coyote rifle? You know, dependable.

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1. How many lost coyotes does a person require before they deem the cartridge not up to the task?

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No more than 3-5 what I go by. But also a guy should know his limits with what gun he is using, I don't take out a lesser caliber/cartridge then try to use it beyond its means. Like the 221 f.b. 200 yards is it and don't try to squeeze anymore out of it.
My 17 rem. I lost total of 3 coyotes, wasn't cartridge it was bullet choice at time, I tried those 20 gr. and 25 gr. V-max's, found out real quick they just splatter on impact. 25 gr. hornady H.P or better yet a 30 gr. fixed that problem but I also don't shoot past 300 yards with that cartridge.
17 Predator I never lost a coyote and maybe had a handful that went about 100 yards or less. One went farthest was heart shot and it didn't know it was dead. I got it on Vid. LOL
Range for that rifle was about 400 yards and little more. For me it worked well for calling and why I still have it.
22-250 I lost 4-5 over the years total, once again made a change in bullets and went with the 52 gr. Berger and now Nephew is using 52 gr. A-max in it. so far so good.
22-250 ackley I lost 3, once again changed to different bullet but not always the bullets' fault. a bad hit is a bad hit no way around it.
My 6mm H.L.S no losses except for the ones I had to toss anyway cause holes were to big.
224 Valkrie not sure yet, it does put them down just no bang flops at times, still working with bullets. But I did buy that rifle for running coyotes with the dogs and like quick follow up shots.
17 Mach-4 not enough gun less coyote can always be at 100 yards. I hate to limit myself because of that. makes dam good fox rifle. and mainly what I bought it for.
17 rimfires I have a few but don't use them on coyotes.
22 mag. only good for coon and sometimes its even little week at that if you don't make that perfect shot.

Long as it keeps thumping then I keep using it.

But I always have my eye on something perhaps just little better if it comes along.

I don't know perhaps there are better calibers out there than what I use but I just don't like killing a coyote any more than I have to.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 10, 2026, 09:06 PM:
 
Truthfully, I have not measured my 22-250Ackley. I just know that I do not trim necks and I think it’s because the 40 degree shoulder prevents necks lengthening. People worry about the “donut” but I have not seen it yet. I guess it can cause pressure problems if you try to seat your bullet into whatever donut that your cases have developed. But, with a boat tail bullet, maybe that helps? Depending how deep and your over all cartridge length.

Having been a 220 Swift convert, with trimming to length and occasional split necks, you get none of that with the Ackley shoulder. That’s my opinion,

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 12, 2026, 02:38 AM:
 
I made it out again last night. 25 for temp with a n-w by west then turned to S-W wind about 5 mph.

Had about 1/2 moon and was just starting to come up at 5:00 a.m. so I had a dark night in other words.

Nephew has been out doing solo hunts, and he had a pair of coyotes he couldn't do anything with after two tries so he decided to tell me where they were.
I told him those may have been called before that's why, as they in a area some other guys call around.

I like a bit of a challenge so off I go and reached the locating around 1:00 a.m., I reached area and set up by next section to the west which had some cover in middle and just good place for coyotes to lay up in.

I started out playing one of Ricks long hunts for Feb. I think. I ran about half of the series and didn't see anything through thermal so was about to pack it up but decided to look one more time.
The little bastards sneaked in behind a little 4-5 ft. ridge that ran from my right to left and when I played pup distress, they popped out from behind it and was on their way out. Didn't want anything to do with that sound.
I voice barked and howled at them and got one to stop. I hit the rangefinder and it dialed in for range (290 yards), so I put dot on coyote and click! I had a shell that didn't go off, bad primer I guess so anyway I chambered another round and got dot on coyote once again and put it to sleep this time. It was a nice big male and biggest I taken this year.
You guys like liver- worst? I'm having a little snack of it before bed. LOL

AS for the donut Leonard, yeah, it's there. If you seat base of bullet past the base of neck and shoulder area. It shows up in my ackley as well as my 17 Pred.. the brass has to flow somewhere.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 12, 2026, 06:42 AM:
 
Liverwurst is great stuff, although I've never tried making it with coyote liver. It stays on a #4 treble hook pretty good down at Catfish Bend (secret spot) on the River and does well for Channel Cats.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 12, 2026, 10:20 AM:
 
My parents used to buy Liverworst, I’d never touch the stuff. Pickled Herring and Kipper snacks. (fish) Like sardines. You see discarded sardine cans in Nevada. All roads lead to a hard rock mine somewhere. There will be a ditch somewhere where they throw trash. For protein, a can of sardines comes in handy. Packs neat and stores well. Sometimes it seems like every little two track terminates at a mine. I used to wonder what those pads laying around were for? Now I know. But even Nevada is changing. A little. Here and there. Damn, when gold is $5,000 an ounce, it pays to keep working the talings to maintain your claim. That’s an amazing number! 5k. Wow! Do those numbers ever decrease?

Good hunting. El Bee 🐝

You minnesoda fellers are too hard on your hunting grounds! I swear, seldom have I called the same stand. Oh, there’s a couple dirt roads that. terminate on a fence that the US ends and you can go no further, legally. I’ve called it more than once. Never did worth a shit. But my point is, that there is so much open ground in 4 or 5 western states, that it will be a rare event if I ever call the same spot, twice. And, we don’t have straight roads running north, south, east or west. They tend to follow the terrain, mostly. I think?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 12, 2026, 10:36 AM:
 
I love straight roads, less of a chance of getting lost at night and if someone needs directions its pretty simple.
At moment the areas I cover is 13 miles north, 13 miles south, 13 miles east and 13 miles west. which takes me into 3 counties.
You drive all night through your hunting areas, here you drive to them. LOL

Many stands will have more than one coyote around so yeah, you have to go back again for the other one and sometimes there more in area. Just family groups you know.
Smoked oysters in a can pretty good also, always have few cans laying on top of fridge for just incase.

I sent Randy S. little treat this morning, I remembered to push the dam record button on the thermal and got a vid. of last nights stand so now he see's how it is here and how well the 52 gr. is working.

[ March 12, 2026, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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