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Author
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Topic: Missouri Coyotes
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted February 11, 2026 10:51 AM
Just a little coyote info that I thought was interesting from a small local event.
I don't know the rules beyond it being a small local contest and paid in two categories - coyotes and nest predators (sponsored by NWTF).
What's interesting is that there was a 3-way tie for 1st (8 coyotes/team) with the winner determined by the weight of their 3 heaviest animals - those total weights being 101.2, 99.6, and 98.2 lbs. As an average per animal that covered a range of 32.7 to 33.7 lbs.
No real point to be made other than I used to see all kinds of wild claims made about weights of "back East" coyotes and these were real numbers from a representative sample.
An adult coyote is kind of a plain-vanilla thing weighing about 33 pounds. Time after time.
I missed check-in, but the rough photo I saw did not indicate any bobcats or foxes, but was hard to tell with the broad nest predators category.
I think 53 total won that category, probably almost entirely raccoons from the look of the piles.
I have not heard the total numbers, but they appear to be down - having been in the area that day looking for geese I'll blame that on the mud. Snow melt and temps above freezing would have limited access in a lot of places.
I probably should swipe the pic from a local newspaper just to drive the P ETA types fucking nuts - as always, the group photo is taken at the local American Legion with an M48 as the background, the tank gun featuring prominently in the photo.....
I have little doubt that somewhere there's a purple-haired, nose wrung fat chick crying over all the furries killed by the military hardware. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 11, 2026 01:39 PM
Thats cool. I see kind of same weights on avr. for coyotes. But also keep in mind my coyotes don't make it past 3rd. year. The ones that do are a little heavier in size it be like one out of 50 coyotes perhaps or 3, just depends. Another thing to take into account is was a heavy coyote killed just after it had a big meal? or one that's has been eating good.
Back East does have big coyotes but also take into account many of them live to a older age due to lack of hunters or calling skills or safe areas. And back East they just started really getting into them about 10 years ago or so.
Down in S-E of U.S. there has been many hunters getting into sport but lacked the skills or sounds to get them thus having a chance to get old and grow up. And many just skimming cream off the top thus the coyotes running smaller in size and weight. Some coyotes also eat alot of dead stuff with heavy bone and well have a greater tooth wear making a hunter think he go a old one. Bone is hard on a coyote's teeth as well as a dog and thus you see more wear also.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 12, 2026 12:31 AM
Instead of starting new thread I'll just pit this here. Coyote pup dispersion?
Some of the books say that YOY pups take off on their own come breeding time to find own mates. Not say it not true but here is what I been seeing lately and seen it here over the years.
I have a adult breeding pair living right next to town I spotted last year when out at night calling. They had one pup with them last year that I called in and killed and another got run over in fall on highway. Tonight, I located them out in a field with the breeding pair being together and one pup was just to west of them about 1/4 mile or so and another was just across the road to south laid up on a fence line about same distance away. And one pup also got run over this fall in same area as one year before. They follow a fence line and cross same spot every time they come through.
Here I been seeing the family groups still loosely intact and not far from parents. Been seeing this go on for some time. And I also see litters from previous year just set up shop in next good location also not more than a few miles from parents but also depending on cover and food as some maybe a little farther away but still there. Last year or year before I had eight still together in same drainage in another area till I removed most of them. Yeah, let's not forget the one we all read about that traveled over 50 miles looking for a mate, I sure it happens but don't seem to be the norm here. I have another area where i still have 3 coyotes running together and Nephew found four in same location the night, he was out solo. anyway just saying....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 6003 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted February 12, 2026 06:54 AM
Don't ask me, I'm just a retired trigger man!
Posts: 662 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 12, 2026 07:06 AM
I can definitely say; ........... It depends.
Food.
Water.
Cover.
Population density.
Hunting pressure.
Year to year changes in any of the above.
Planetary alignment????
Other than six tits & howl at the moon, I don't think that there are hard & fast rules. Just general behaviors observed in different areas, subject to change. Nothing carved in stone.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 12, 2026 10:08 AM
Well, first of all, I say call off the search party, Ol’ Joe F must have made bail! No kidding, nice to see you drop in!
You know, I have always thought it was odd and bogus to break ties by weighing their “bag”?
We always line up and break any ties by earliest arrival according to their place in line.
A coyote is a coyote, it’s not like landing a Lunker Bass, or an 8 point whitetail. Sometimes, those YOY can be extremely difficult to coax into shooting range. I know “they” say that pups are stupid, but that’s not true half the time.
Our hunts were open to most predators that would come to a call. We had a point system.
100 points for a wolf or a lion. (and since there were extremely rare, including them was more like a poke at the bunny huggers.
Then, a bobcat is 15 points
ANY coyote is 8 points
a Badger is 12 points
and a Gray Fox is worth 5 points. No points for Red fox or Kit fox
That’s it. In more than 3 decades, I only remember zero wolves and 2 lions turned in, accompanied by documentation by Fish and Game, because they may be legal in AZ and not in CA, (for instance) and we had no geographical restrictions. A very few would fly to some choice spot, for instance. Of course, potting a lion assisted by a pack of hounds was strongly discouraged. This was, after all, a CALLING CONTEST.
However, since we only awarded trophy’s, no cash prizes. Money has corrupted bass fishing AND coyote contests, so we never had a problem with that type of cheating.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 33101 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted February 12, 2026 11:48 AM
I'll have to check with my nephew for more details on the rules, his team wound up 2nd this year and have won this contest in years past. He's been known to have some rather strong opinions.....
There are usually multiple bobcats and a couple foxes taken in this contest, hopefully they are still scored in the "coyote" part of this contest.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 12, 2026 03:03 PM
If we're calling off the search party, what are we supposed to do with all of these milk cartons with the hand drawn photo and 'lost' poster. ??????
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 12, 2026 04:39 PM
I said all along that the milk cartons was a mistake! With some, you get more bang for the buck with beer bottles!Or, like if you were to turn up missing, would plastering your image on Meade bottles accomplish anything?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 33101 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 13, 2026 05:37 AM
Probably not. I'm the only one who would see it.
Milk cartons .......... Years ago a group of us were planning an archery deer hunt to Utah. We were going to get the hunt on video. One of our members couldn't make it and just knew that he would be the butt of all of our jokes. He made us swear that we wouldn't mention his name at any time on tape & we all agreed.
After the hunt we had our big movie night / bbq and although we didn't mention his name, every time there was a camp scene, there was a milk carton with his photo on a LOST poster. We thought that it was a nice touch.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 13, 2026 10:12 AM
Interesting night last night.
I was calling some CRP and had a pair come in from the south across open field, they stopped about 500 yards out then started to circle to my left and went into the grass. wind was in my favor so was good to go there. Grass was not too thick, but they got into a low spot and could not see them any longer. Not sure how long i was on stand but I kept calling and watching hoping they would show.
Finaly caught movement about 500 yards out and had a pair coyotes come out of the grass at a dead run heading back to the south with 3 more coyotes on their ass. WTF? I watched it play out and two of the coyotes to rear finally stopped running and the third just flew right on by them. LOL
Not sure if one pair crossed terr. line or just got to close to other pair or maybe all 3 were males.
Anyway the 3 that ran out just kept going till they came to a road on southside of section and then stood there for a while and just looked back.
Meanwhile the two aggressive coyotes played grab ass with each other then they finally hooked up.
The night before had another pair hook up as well so I'd say the rut here is in full swing. Feb.12 & 13th.....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 14, 2026 12:25 PM
Thanks for this report!
Coyotes are apparently breeding, on schedule, within the historically well documented framework of the so called: “Mating Season”. This is indeed, amazing news, if accurate? So, thanks for the update; our expert man on the ground reporting from southern Minetonka, Tim Anderson.
🤸🏿♂️
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 14, 2026 01:14 PM
But .......... What about Estrous Chirps ?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) ??
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 14, 2026 01:34 PM
GOOD CATCH, WATSON!
Bring us up to spud, if you can! I myself have always wondered?
Good hunting. El Bee 🐝
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 14, 2026 03:34 PM
Only time I have ever heard estrus chirps is when a pair was in the grass stalking my caller, just chirps to communicate with, excitement of the hunt or maybe to help keep track of each other.
I tried chirps on my caller if they close enough to hear them. and gave good test last year with that sound. one of two things they turn and run or just walk away. would be great if they worked. LOL
Talked with few other good callers from different parts of the country and they see same thing.
This is how I look at it or seen how coyotes behave. You have a pair out in field breeding and another coyote knows he goanna get his ass whooped or already has, what's it going to do? one just stand and watch like Koko or take off running.
Lets look at aggressive sounds as well. if you have a family group out in front, they may respond to it looking for a fight but then again may not so I try to avoid those sounds unless nothing else works. as a group the others make each other feel tougher or more motavated..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 14, 2026 04:06 PM
Yeah, my experience with chirps is to stand around and watch an empty horizon.
But .............. (and this is secret handshake stuff) have you ever tried 'Song Of The Humpbacked Whale' for;
(1) Calling coyotes.
and
(2) Really freaking out campers late at night.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 14, 2026 06:05 PM
No I have not but I do use woman screaming as a call back sound. (credit to Wildlife Tech)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 14, 2026 07:59 PM
In all seriousness, have you ever heard the BLOODCURDLING SCREAM of a wounded Gray fox???????
I first heard it one night must have been 30 some years ago. Had absolutely no idea what it was, partly because there actually a few dwellings nearby. Confused and having just fired a shot at the fox but I/we had no idea, first, that I missed, but it’s such an extremely loud screech that you can’t put it together. Another thing is, if you ever encounter gray fox in mountains or hills; I swear to god, they move so fast and seem to glide, at night, if you follow the eyes, you have a lot more reason to believe you are tracking a great horned owl or a Golden Eagle. Because they seem to float and it’s a lot like flying. They are extremely fast and agile, and there is not any kind of bounce as when a coyote is romping in. I’m serious when I say that they are amazing little creatures, and they can most certainly climb a tree or a boulder way faster that a bobcat. I’ve seen a lion exhibit blazing speed at night, but they are gone just as fast. The Gray Fox is different, they seem to float effortlessly. Just amazing, I kid you not!
Also, if you have not observed it, a dead Gray Fox is damned near irresistible to a coyote! I’ve had a few literally stolen from me by coyotes! If layed on a rock where they are visible, a coyote stands a good chance of making a coyote hunter look stupid! I have several stories that are so cunning and resourceful, that you would not believe it. It’s better to actually experience it because when trying to explain it, even experienced coyote hunters are more likely to think the tale teller is completely full of shi! But, that is the secret weapon in those areas where they both exist.
And, by the way, Gray Fox cannot exist alongside coyotes unless they have undeniable conditions. They can only manage if they have something to climb, to get away. It doesn’t have to be trees. Like in some parts of southern California, there are huge boulders, and a Gray Fox can scamper up a vertical side of a granite boulder so fast that a coyote wouldn’t even try to follow. As I already said, unless you have seen it, you wouldn’t believe it….and I don’t blame you! It sounds unbelievable, you have to have witnessed it.So, that’s the key. Gray fox need to climb to escape coyotes. If there are not trees or boulders, they are dead meat! Because as fast as they are, a coyote will wear them down, unless they can get up a tree. That’s the secret.
And to hear a Gray scream at night will. send shivers down your Pea Picking spine! If you’ve heard it, you are fortunate, indeed.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ February 14, 2026, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 15, 2026 12:01 AM
Wish I had grey fox in my area but don't. ones we do have are farther north in few places with rocks, granite and close to major river and I think there some in S-E. part of state with same rocky outcrop.
I have all kinds of sounds on My WT and L.D. and don't think I ever bothered to listen to any of fox sounds but hey I'm going to check them out maybe there is a bronze bullet there.
Went to new areas tonight looking for some virgin ears. LOL Deer and bird season really screws up the coyotes as far as where they want to be, they get pushed out and lay up in farm sites or just open ground along a fence line.
I did call in a pair with WT as I have not used it in a while on first stand tonight. Some good old group howls and single howls sealed the deal.
Bad thing here is the ground is so on even in many places you only get one shot then they out of site.
Not sure how long it takes for a female to get breed once she has a mate and if they court each other or mate more than a few times. Pretty tough to call them in while they are loving each other, but they be hungry and more terr. soon after that is done.
Im not 100% on coyotes but know many dogs will not mate or can't mate on their first year of being born. wonder if coyotes are the same as at times, I see quiet a few young lone coyotes.
supposedly wolves' kind of same way only alpha male and female mate in a pack the rest either have to move out or wait their turn.
Got a storm I think is coming next week so hope I have few more days of good calling and have to give the grey fox sound a try..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 15, 2026 05:30 AM
Grey Fox are awesome and always a treat to watch come in. They just glide in like a wayward summer breeze. Hard to describe but totally cool.
Another thing about Grey Fox, they're hard to run off. Miss a coyote & it's good-bye coyote, but I've missed Grey Fox with both pistol & bow and had them run off, only to come back in a few minutes later. The one with the bow was nicked on the flank and the one with the .41 never went completely out of sight.
It's probably a good thing for us that Grey Fox don't stand about three foot at the shoulder.
Years ago, I was channel surfing and came across one of those bogus bigfoot reality shows. The hero was 'communicating' with a 'squatch by making some goofy sounds that the 'squatch was responding to. The response was without a doubt a Grey Fox barking back at him, but hey, who am I to criticize good theater ?? It sounded good in the dark to the true believers.
And ............ Don't underestimate that Whale Song. Curiosity is one of the coyote drivers.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 15, 2026 11:11 AM
Sure, that sound of a Humpback may bring a coyote in, but it may also put one of those MPLS. whales in my lap as well. No thanks.eeeeew
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 15, 2026 01:28 PM
Once had a gray fox run up a meaquite, the trunk and out the branch that the caller was placed on, nose to the machine. Then took off the other way, all so fast you couldn’t react to it. I assume he got a good whif of the hand that placed it in the tree, not me, by the way.
Also they are very apt to stretch out and sleep in the branches of a tree. I only saw this in a cage at the county fair, but there were about 4 all lounging in the central branches about 4-5 feet off the ground, as perfectly at home as a monkey or a bird.
Good hunting. El Bee🐝
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 15, 2026 01:46 PM
I am pretty sure that the top predator in our local mountains, is probably the gray fox. These mountains are practically inaccessible due to the vertical terrain and brush, pretty much restricted to existing game trails. I’ve called up there in the San Gabriels when I was first starting and that’s what you will call in 9 out of ten stands. That’s how I know that they glide across canyons like a friggin’ eagle. Good luck making a shot. Yes there are coyotes, bobcat and lions, but the primary predator is the gray fox. They are so fast in negotiating terrain that the impression, at night, following them with a light, is that whatever it is, is flying. That’s the only explanation that makes sense, if you didn’t know what it was. It’s amazing, no other word for it?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 15, 2026 02:39 PM
Ah, c'mon Tim; Take a walk on the wild side. I've heard that one of those hairy legged lesbos could change your life. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 15, 2026 08:53 PM
I started a go fund me and plan to have all toughs dry land whales sent to AZ. I'm sure you guys could use some more shade.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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