This is topic It’s been awhile. in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Ariel Perez (Member # 4678) on December 03, 2024, 02:14 PM:
Well it seems like ever since I moved back to Nm I have done way less predator calling. With the kiddos growing up and activities every weekend and me getting a new position and not working shift work just m-f my free time has come to halt. Since then I have picked up archery elk hunting and boy oh boy I think it gives coyote calling a run for its money. Anyhow, my oldest passed her hunters education course a few weekends ago and she has been asking to go calling. We snuck out the other morning after breakfast and gosh dang it we called in a bobcat on the first stand perfect broadside shot at 20 yards. She found it in her scope and let it have it!! She was so excited that she wanted to drive the 40 minutes back home to show family and skin it out. The next day we had some more free time in the evening so we sneak out right before dark and call in another bobcat, I couldn’t believe it, when I was calling a lot I would call in 3-5 a year maybe. But the first 2 stands of the year and we have 2 downed bobcats I couldn’t believe it. The girls were even more excited that we got two in two days. I think she is ruined now and is gonna expect cats on every stand. To say I was proud of my daughter is an understatement, now she is hooked and is asking if we can go again this coming weekend.
I hope everybody is doing well, it’s been years since I have been on here. Koko I hope you and the wife are doing well, I try and make one trip a year to Arizona to do some calling. I’ll give you a call if I make my way over there this year.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2024, 04:14 PM:
Wow, I’d say your daughter is your lucky charm! It’s no doubt that cats are just lucky, target them all you want, but they are still a gift. Trapping’s a different story, but targeting called cats is never guaranteed.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 03, 2024, 06:21 PM:
Ariel, you scandalous scoundrel !!!! Good to hear about your daughter's bobcats. Awesome !!!!
If you ever get over this way, let me know & we can fling a few arrows somewhere.
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on December 04, 2024, 03:39 AM:
What a great story to share with us. And congratulations to your daughter on the cats.
They are so often called but never seen. I hope she never gives up the thrill of calling. You are a lucky man.
Posted by Ariel Perez (Member # 4678) on December 04, 2024, 05:59 AM:
Ya Leonard it’s funny you say that about cats I have always wanted to try and target cats for a few days straight but I would imagine it would be a lot of dry stands or letting the foxes live another day which I don’t think I could do, i don’t know why but I really enjoy fox hunting. I don’t know what else I would do to target cats without a lot of scouting, the stuff I usually call is thick country with shotguns so unless I go up into the foothill canyons I’m not sure how I would go about it but I am thinking about it.
Mr Roop , man wish I got into archery when I was living close to you. You would be kicking me out of your range everyday. Not sure I would be allowed since I’m running a compound, although my great uncle from Kansas gifted me an old bear recurve from his collection last time he came down to visit. I got a few arrows for it but man I might just have to bring it to you and you teach me the instinctive shooting ways. I think my arrows are little under spined so I need to cut them down a little bit. What kind of broad heads are you supposed to shoot out of a recurve?
Nv yes sir I wish I could post the pictures on here because once you see the smile on their faces it’s priceless. I think I’m gonna do some scouting for otc javelina in January for her, I think it would be a hoot if she could harvest one.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 04, 2024, 06:51 AM:
The Welcome Mat's out.
I shoot almost every day. I'm partial to Zwickey Broadheads, either Deltas or Eskimos.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 04, 2024, 12:48 PM:
Ariel; ............. Or anyone interested in Traditional Archery.
The best book I can recommend is Shooting The Stickbow by Anthony Camera.
You 'should' be able to find a copy on eBay used for around $20. Coin well spent for a lot of good solid info.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 05, 2024, 05:36 AM:
I'm going to take you up on the invite but I'm bringing Lance (Cdog) with me. Gona be a test of the AR with those famous army loads Vrs. bolt action and you the ref. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
After smoke clears you can teach Lance how to make some of those special high vel. arrows.
[ December 05, 2024, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Ariel Perez (Member # 4678) on December 05, 2024, 05:48 AM:
Sounds good Richard I’ll check it out and see if I can find one. The biggest issue I have right now is the arrows aren’t flying straight, so I guess I need to get different spined arrows or adjust arrow length. One or the other because correct me if I’m wrong but there isn’t really a way to tune the bow correct?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 05, 2024, 07:07 AM:
Actually, several ways;
Brace height is one, nocking point is another. Center shot adjustment can make a huge difference.
Arrows can be adjusted by length, point weight and fletch.
And .............. plucking the string or dropping your bowarm on release can affect arrow flight.
The learn' never ends.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 06, 2024, 10:04 AM:
I was thinking, “arrow harmonics” could cause an arrow to plane off and catch the wind. Maybe? Or just improperly weighted broadhead? Global Warming also comes to mind.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 06, 2024, 10:55 AM:
Broadheads can open a whole 'nother can of worms.
I run more helical on my fletch than I need for field points because other than cosmetic differences my target arrows are the same as my hunting arrows.
The hat trick is getting field points, broadheads and blunts to group together at 60 yards.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 06, 2024, 02:20 PM:
Okay, let me relate that above response to something I know.
Let’s say I have three loads for my 22/243Middlested. One is a 65 grain Berger. Then I also use a 60gr and a 63 grain. They all have different muzzle velocities, ranging from 3750 to 3925fps.
So, the task as stated by ko ko is to shoot a group by reaching into a sock with an equal amount of each load, say 4 each and a total of 12 cartridges in the sock.
Now, I fire a 5 shot 100 yard group, with no change of windage or elevation and measure. With me so far?
I will hazard a guess that my “group” would measure at least two inches, which is a long ways from what each of those loads are capable of, fired in the normal manor. Maybe I’m being generous; it might be more like 3 1/2”? This is not even minute of coyote.
SO, unless you are using Kentucky windage and already have a good idea of the various arrow types, how could you expect them to group together other than using your experience and compensating enough to hit what you are aiming at.
I can’t do that with a rifle unless I cheat by having knowledge of the different zero and not shooting at the same point of aim….if that makes any sense?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Ariel Perez (Member # 4678) on December 06, 2024, 02:27 PM:
Thanks for the tips Richard, I’m gonna go ahead and order that book and try and figure it out because our bow shop here in town is terrible and I don’t trust them at all. I hate taking my bow in to get paper tuned I just need to bit the bullet and buy a press. Thanks again Richard. 60 yard groups with a trad bow, that’s impressive.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 07, 2024, 05:35 PM:
Leonard;
The trick with arrows is to first get the right spine arrow shaft and enough helical fletch.
Then you adjust the field point weight to get really good arrow flight.
Next you pick a broadhead that you like in the same weight range as the field points. These you test up-wind, down-wind and cross-wind left and right. They 'should' group together with field points.
For small game / roving shots I like Zwickey Judo Blunts and suspect that they were Divinely Inspired. They're 'blunty' enough to shock but not so much as to have excessive wind resistance. The little wire arms either cut flesh or grab brush making the arrow (usually) easy to find. I use five grain washers to adjust the weight and bring the groups together.
Simple, eh ????
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 07, 2024, 05:44 PM:
Ariel;
If you don't have confidence in your shop, even if your bow is tuned perfectly, it will affect your shooting.
Bear in mind that you cannot tune a traditional bow yourself better than your form. Best to follow basic guidelines and go from there. That book should help.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 08, 2024, 09:00 AM:
Got a guy here, if he still alive has made kills past 100 yards with a foot bow on Elk as well as African game, not many can do that.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 08, 2024, 09:37 AM:
100 yard kills with a foot bow ???
That would be some interesting video.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 08, 2024, 07:25 PM:
There was article on him years ago in field & stream or outdoor life and even state newspaper. His biggest kill was a nice Bull elephant with foot bow.
The guy's son also took up interest but would not let his kid hunt till he could hit 100-yard target over and over. Guess you could call them long range bow snipers. LOL
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 09, 2024, 01:53 AM:
You don't recall the guy's name by any chance, do you ????
The only guy I've ever heard of using a foot bow was Harry Drake but his was strictly set up for distance flight shooting. He actually sent one just over one mile at a sanctioned meet.
Howard Hill did a trick shot standing on one leg and shooting horizontally pushing the longbow with the other foot and drawing to his waist but that was only for exhibitions on stage.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 09, 2024, 07:56 AM:
No I don't Koko. The guy was a farmer that lived about 30 miles from me. I did a google and couldn't find his name, just a Rep. or Bow maker from Browning came up that used one. Far as I remember guy didn't do any competition shooting just hunted African game with foot bow. Also, any articles written up on him would be late 70's to early 80's. Also the guy might have been on wide world of sports with Kurt gowdy.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 09, 2024, 12:28 PM:
i remember mentioning this on this Board, some years ago, about Howard Hill, a very famous archer, if not a Bow Hunter, I don’t know?
Anyway, we were on a hunt in northern Arizona and stopped at a restaurant along the Interstate. As we were paying the bill at the register, I looked to the left at the far wall and I think there was a set of Longhorn Steer horns mounted on that far wall. There was an arrow stuck in the boss of the horns and a sign, (a testament, more or less) below the horns that said that the arrow was shot from the register to the steer head by Mr Howard Hill and gave date, which seems, must have been back in the 19 fifty’s?
I wonder if it’s still there? Could have been anywhere from Flagstaff but I’m sure it wasn’t Kingman, although there is a restaurant in Kingman that has a huge mounted Lion!
Anyway, anybody see what I’m talking about?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 09, 2024, 02:00 PM:
Howard Hill is considered the greatest hunter who ever lived. He not only did it all and with a longbow, no less, much of his archery accomplishments had never been done before he showed it could be done. He made his trick shots look easy. Trust me ...... they're not. He held distance records and for a long time, the record for drawing the heaviest bow at, I believe, 180 pounds. He was known for holding two 60 pound bows in his hand and drawing them both at the same time .... while sitting down.
There are several videos on u-tube of him along with ones by Ben Pearson, Fred Bear and a truly amazing one with the Wilhelm Brothers titled 'Meet The Champs' Some of the videos are a bit 'hokey' but still far and away better than the Pablum served up on cable tv.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 10, 2024, 11:06 AM:
OK, thanks for that. I guess you never been to northern Arizona? You have plenty of free time to drive I40, from Flagstaff, stop at every Greasy Spoon along the way, (west) and find that restaurant with the set of Longhorn horns and an arrow shot through the leather of the boss. Not kidding, I saw it!
Another related. And this Really goes back a long ways. I remember some kind of story or account of an Indian who rigged up a set of elk antlers into a bow, possibly a spike? Anyway, he would lie on his back and brace the bow with his feet close together and draw it HOW, I don’t recall or the arrow or the string? But I think he shot an eagle, in flight? Okay, maybe fabricated, I suppose? But, just bending antler like that would take a real HeMan, for sure. If anybody can duplicate it, I believe ko ko can. Get started before you get too old.
But, another thought, about crossbows, mideaval. I think they used steel arms, however they are called? And a screw to wind the draw and they were wickedly reinforced, but not very fast on the follow up shot. But they would pass the bolt through 3 men standing in line.
Back in the day, the torture was so inventive, you have to give them credit. The one where they fabricated a hollow cow of cast iron with a gate to shove the victim through, then stand the loaded cow over a roaring fire and roast the guy inside with entertainment provided by the screams!
Kind of reminds me of Sara Boone who zipped her boyfriend into a suitcase, then took a nap while he begged her to get him out! She was just convicted after 4 1/2 years in jail and a progression of nine attorneys. Geezus, I’m castrophobic, and the idea of being doubled up in a fucking suitcase would literally drive me insane! This female deserves a grim death, but instead, she will just die in prison.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 10, 2024, 12:39 PM:
I've never heard of using elk antler for a bow. Many cultures used sheep horn to laminate with wood or bamboo to either shoot a faster arrow or a heavier one.
The hollow cow was actually a Bronze Bull. The King wanted a demonstration so the inventor was tossed inside and was the first victim. Karma and all of that.
Posted by Crow Woman (Member # 157) on December 10, 2024, 01:19 PM:
I am So Proud of you and your daughter Ariel!!! Congrats for her getting her hunters education license AND two bobcats!! Kiddo’s to you for taking her and introducing her to this wonderful world of hunter/harvesters. I hope there will be many more stories to follow in her journey!!!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 10, 2024, 02:09 PM:
You are absolutely right! I knew that, just sloppy remembering.
Keeping me honest. I forgot, that’s one of your duties around this place.
Good hunting. El Bee
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