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Author
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Topic: Rifle rests and shooting sticks
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted May 19, 2013 07:08 AM
Have any of you guys found a rest or shooting support that allows you to easily convert from a sitting position to shooting from a prone position or visa versa with a high degree of stability?
A lot of the calling I have done in SD was from a prone position due to the prairie grass situation that is available. Prone is certainly ideal when you can achieve it. Unfortunately, different country (rolling hills with sage, soapweeds, etc.) is not conducive to the prone position.
In rolling hills with sage or soap weeds (sandhill country), you are going to have to convert to a sitting position or you are going to spend a lot of time searching for prone spots and passing up a lot of good stands.
After many years of calling in both situations, I settled in on an 8" to 12" Harris Bipod(guessing on length) permanently attached to my rifle for prone situations and a rear stock rest (thank you Quinton) as well as a pair of shooting sticks for sitting positions. That worked fine until the calling craze created a situation of coyotes hanging out there at farther ranges which necessitates a higher degree of stability from the sitting position.
I have used and do not like the extended Harris bipod as used on Predator Quest because it is hard to maneuver in the taller sage I like to use to hide myself from a sitting position. I am talking about not wanting to move it into position by raising it up and swinging it let alone trying to swing on coyote #2 as it's running.
Of course I realize that you can camoflauge yourself in many situations (snow camo or white on snow cover) to where you are practically invisible until you are skylined.
The biggest thing I am looking for is more stability from a sitting position with ease of changing from sitting to prone.
I'd like to know if any of you have mastered this problem with modern equipment that I might not know about.
I am thinking in terms of something that supports both ends of the gun with tripod stability that is easily adjustable which, if flipped upside down or easily changed, could act as a short bipod for prone positions.
To be honest, I am not sure what the solution is but I know what I need to make 300 - 400 yard shots from a sitting position. I am getting older and I am not as steady off shooting sticks as I used to be.
~SH~
[ May 19, 2013, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted May 19, 2013 07:20 AM
The mother of all questions!I'll be watching closely as I couldn't have phrased it better.An agonizing problem that I've tried many assorted things to solve.Some spendy,some gimmicky,most too heavy and unwieldy,none that fully answered it.
For what it's worth,I'm near thinking it will involve creative modification of a backpack that will sit high enuf to shoot sitting but scrunch down enuf for prone.I'm close to removing the sand from an old bench bag(or 2),sewing it on my pack and experimenting with it.Most of my calling is late season though and many don't carry packs so....
[ May 19, 2013, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: DiYi ]
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted May 19, 2013 08:17 AM
Ha,a sample of things that don't work.This from my gun room only-without a search in the shop that I'm sure would really embarrass me.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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KaBloomR
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4252
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posted May 19, 2013 09:36 AM
Oh dear.... That is a tall order, Wiley. I have a collection similar to DiYi's. 9 times out of 10 I end up packing the cheap wooden HS sticks. Bog-Pod makes a fancy adjustable tripod and a rifle rest accessory (purchased separately), but it wouldn't help with prone. It will also set you back about the cost of another rifle, though...
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"It always gets a helluva lot worse before it gets any better"
Posts: 302 | From: Utah | Registered: Nov 2012
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Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3842
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posted May 19, 2013 10:07 AM
I've tried a bunch too, but once I started using the Vern Howey sticks, my search ended. I really like them, but I always shoot from a sitting position whether it's from a stool or on my butt.
A buddy of mine actually made me an exact copy of them too. I'm pretty bad about losing my sticks for some reason.
Anyway, I very rarely shoot prone so I've never had your problem. But, I gave it some thought, and this is where I'd start. Home made.
If you were to make your own shooting sticks out of something like 1"x3/4" oak...
Hinged with a bolt in the middle just like all the home made jobs...
But cut the length of the legs at the height where you'd want them for prone...
Then hinge them again there, you could scissor them one way for shooting while sitting and they would lock against themselves with the hinge.
Scissor them the other way for prone and the bottom section would "flop" over and you'd be resting on the short section of leg.
I can easily see it in my mind, but I'm not sure if I described it right.
I know it's not as easy as buying it and "BAM"...end of problem, but that's how I'd roll until something better came along.
Maybe I just gave up a million dollar idea?? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 19, 2013 10:58 AM
Wily,
I have found that shooting from sitting position with my back against something solid is the cat's meow. I sit with my left knee up and rest my left elbow on my leg. Elevation is variable by sliding your elbow up and down on your left leg. Now out in those hills with no rock or tree to rest your back against presents a real problem. I am still thinking about one of those really low seat cushions with a back rest. Figuring out how to keep that low seat from tipping over backwards is still my own personal problem.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 19, 2013 11:29 AM
The closest thing would be a big pack. Stand it tall for sitting and lay it sideways for prone but then you gotta fill it up and carry it.
Actually I use Stoney point sticks but if they would lock together it would be better... And my solution is similar to Rich's but I rely on my Crazy Creek fabric chair instead of a tree, they're just not always in the right spot. The CCFC allows me to get as solid as I could without a bench and bags and is a whole lot easier to carry.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 19, 2013 11:30 AM
Scott, I pretty much settled into doing as you decribed. 9-13 inch Harris on each of my rifles and Howey-type sticks. Before I start the stand, I put down the Harris and position the yoke of the sticks just behind the Harris' base. I am able to take the shot from sitting, but if needed, I can quickly just fall forward on top of the sticks and the rifle lands on the Harris legs ready to go. I like that for runners beyond 150 to 200.
You just can't get VH sticks anymore, so I made a four sets for myself this past summer, modified to better suit the forearm stocks on my 22-250.
I know that most veteran callers scoff at the idea of ghillies, but this is an option. Rather than trying to eliminate the movement involved with repositioning sticks when exposed in open country, conceal the movement by augmenting cover. The big lesson I took away from my research for an article I did on ghillies years ago from a Special Forces military dude who trains snipers was that the ghillie eliminated what he called the "head on shoulders" outline that is so notable. I rarely use mine, but when the situation calls for it, it very easily gives me the appearance of an eastern redcedar tree, a very common invasive around here. Coyotes ignore me completely and the width, plus hiding the outline of my head and shoulders, has been very, very effective. Rich Higgins demonstrated to me, and which has proven just as effective for me on numerous occasions, that a 6x10 foot camo net drapped over your head for the same effect works just as well and weighs about 2.5 pounds in your pocket for when needed. Nowadays, I pretty much go with the Howey-type sticks, Harris pods, and the net if/ when I need it.
I can post a pic of the Howey sticks with a parts list if anyone is interested.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 19, 2013 11:49 AM
Rich raises what is, to me, in important question. WTH is the deal with these supposedly handy ground chairs? Nothing to hook them to, and you're supposed to be able to lean back in them like a real chair? Not buying it. They look to me like that would be pretty much sitting on the ground in one of those old stadium chairs, except that when you leaned back, you and the chair both go rolling over backwards. A seat, for me, gives some back support by correcting the angle of my back to my legs. The Speedy Yote seat I got at Cabelas does that as well as anything by putting an extra 3 inches of memory foam between me and the ground. It's attached to a belt/ fanny pack setup with lots of storage pockets. The only thing it lacks is support to keep it from sliding down when walking, so this past year, I splurged and got a nice set of cammy suspenders. Prior to that, I had to hook the belt inside my pistola holster to keep it above my hips. I love that seat as it just gets up and goes with me when I'm done and there's no risk of leaving it behind (been there done that). Three inches of vertical might not seem like much, but there have been times I chose to leave the pad in the truck that, upon arrival at my hide, I wished I'd had it to get me just a bit higher elevation through and over the grass.
That seat, plus good knee pads. My knees are so F'd up anymore from all the walking I do that standing on my knees causes my kneecaps to move laterally and hurt like a bitch. A well padded knee pad is a God send for me, and in country like Q and Scott hunt, means fewer gaddamned cactus needles in my knees. Damn those hurt.
Fact is, much of what the military has developed in recent years can be repurposed to predator hunting very easily. They make this stuff because it fills a desperate need and is relatively available for a decent price. Being in an army town, I don't have to drive far to find surplus, and guys who can show me how to use it better.
[ May 19, 2013, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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KaBloomR
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4252
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posted May 19, 2013 12:12 PM
C,
Please post a pic of the Howey's and parts needed. I'd like to check them out. Thanks!
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"It always gets a helluva lot worse before it gets any better"
Posts: 302 | From: Utah | Registered: Nov 2012
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted May 19, 2013 12:54 PM
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5619 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted May 19, 2013 02:53 PM
Thanks for the ideas so far guys but I am already using shooting sticks and a back rest seat pad for additional stability from the sitting position. Those crosshairs are still bouncing too much for those longer shots. I am looking for the same third point of stabilization that I have from the prone position for the sitting position as well as being able to convert it to prone shooting somehow. Yes it's a tall order but I know the creativity is out there.
I will try to describe the concept I am thinking of. In addition to a regular shooting stick, I am thinking of some sort of single stick with a "U" bracket to stabilize the stock of the rifle as well as the forearm in the event that I cannot get prone. Perhaps the old Mike Dick "shooters stick" along with my regular shooting sticks might be the answer but it's going to take a little more time than I might have.
I will have to check out the Bog Pod concept.
TA I already have the same prone setup you have with stock stabilizer which was one of the best tips I learned from Quinton. I hadn't seen it before I saw Q use it. That was a great idea and a long time in coming and now popular amongst many long distance shooters.
Forget the prone position, it's already covered. I have no problems with stabilization with Q's setup and it's fast. I am looking for the same concept for the sitting position.
Keep those ideas coming, perhaps the concept is out there or perhaps we are about to come up with it.
~SH~
[ May 19, 2013, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 19, 2013 03:37 PM
Scott, this seems to be close to wshat you're seeking. Right?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Shooting-Accessories/Benches-Rests%7C/pc/104792580/c/104769180/sc/104212080/Caldwell174-DeadShot-FieldPod/1209592.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog %2Fbrowse%2Fbenches-rests%2F_%2FN-1100226%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104212080%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104791680%253Bcat104792580%253Bcat104769180&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104791680%3Bcat104792580%3 Bcat104769180%3Bcat104212080
Don't know anyone whose used one, but it looks like it'd do the job.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted May 19, 2013 03:51 PM
http://www.singleshotrifles.com/buttplates.html
Or you could try fitting a AR-15 trap door butt plate to your stock.
http://www.antiqueguns.biz/guns/ballard.htm
[ May 19, 2013, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5619 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted May 19, 2013 04:15 PM
I'm using the bog pod tripod with the extreme rest. Scott has seen it. It's a nice system, but not quite steady enough for 300 plus. The problem is having the ability to go from it to prone easily. The Harris bi pods are a pain and I refuse to use them. Short or long they suck. The short sticks I'm using are the Stoney point rapid pivot, but like all good things they have went to shit also. They started using some really crappy rubber and either are so soft they won't hold your gun or they are hard enough they split. I don't have the answer, but I'm still trying new stuff. On the list of things I refuse to carry is a seat, but that would be the next logical idea for a system to attach to for the rear rest. If the seat had a rigid back and a way to attach it. But then you are going to lose the ability to move 90 degrees in either direction.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted May 19, 2013 05:01 PM
Thanks Lance. I would like to see the Caldwell Deadshot Field pod and see how it compares to what Cal has. Just looking at it, I am not sure you can kick the legs out for quick heigth adjustment. Looks more like a tripod that takes time to adjust but I might be wrong.
Cal's might be the same as what KaBoomR was referring to. I like Cal's setup but was curious as to what other ideas and setups are available.
Tim, I need to think more about the U shaped buttplate but that would certainly keep the stock from slipping. I am still after more stability than that. Thanks!
I am going to check my old trapshed and see if I can find my old Mike Dick's "shooters stick" that O'Gorman used to sell.
~SH~
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 19, 2013 05:30 PM
This has the potential of a deep subject. Where I hunt, a stool has become almost indispensable. The problem is what height, and a back support....or not?
The stool I have been using for at least three years now had adjustable legs, from about 8 inches to about 12 inches, but I made them permanent, and angled. I like turning it around on a slope but normally, the forward angle prevents the need for a backrest. Besides, it gets you forward, ready on the gun, not leaning back in your easy chair.
My stool has web straps and a welded aluminum frame, and a strap for slinging it over cross shoulder. As an added bonus, I strung some webbing on the side and it makes a good nesting place for my cs24L. It just sits in there ⅔s of the way, very secure.
The sticks I use require that you mount the adapter to your forearm. But, the good part is that I can remove the sticks for traveling to and from stand. The plug into a detent where you can tilt and swivel just about any which way without repositioning. Within reason. Then, you have to pick them up, like any other. But they also telescope by twisting an eccentric, so the length is from about 24 inches to over 36". Can't use them for standing, but they make a longer model that will work, and will shorten enough to use on a stool. I kinda wish I had got that one but, I don't stand up very often, unless it's a shotgun stand.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted May 19, 2013 05:44 PM
Scott I wouldn't recommend the U-shaped buttplate. Takes to much time to get into but would suggest looking at the one that just has the hook on top for contact with the shoulder. Same principle as the trap door on some of the old 45-70's and the military AR-15's. The trap door on the AR folds out and rests on top of shoulder and then is locked down with your free hand, with elbow resting on left knee. Olympic shooters still use them.
I have the Outers bench rest similar to the field rest Lance posted, even when used on a bench there isn't much stability with them..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted May 19, 2013 05:50 PM
shooting at 300+ yards at a coyote is iffy stuff unless prone for me or anyone i've hunted with.
never seen a 2 legged system that can be rock solid for long shots.
i'm not confident unless i can go prone.
a few years ago, i made a decent tripod that adjusted to about 25" to 48" of so. it had a cradle that the forearm fit into and a velcro strap that snuggged it up. it was the best i'd seen yet but was just to bulky to carry on stand.
Tim, you forgot your favorite rest...
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted May 19, 2013 07:34 PM
I use plain ol shooting sticks like the HS sticks. The rubber tubing grips the forearm just enough that the rifle will not roll sideways or fall off the sticks.
I hate anything attached to my rifle, like a Harris etc. Sticks are light and easy to carry. I will sacrifice long range stability for that. Most all my calling is sitting or kneeling. Laying prone for long periods jacks with my back nowdays so that is out.
I have done the backpack thing and it is a good rest, you can get very solid on em.
Mark
[ May 19, 2013, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted May 19, 2013 08:37 PM
Lance,
You mentioned knee pads. I have used a number of them over the years and the very best I have ever found is Byan's (spelled correctly) Protective Equipment knee pads. I would like to order two pair in "Large" size if I could find them but would take "Medium". They are the most comfortable knee pads I have tried because of the way they are designed. They do not cut into the back of your legs and they stay in place. They are also in green camo. I found these at an army surplus store when I worked for the Nazi regime in SD. Let me know if you come across any for sale. Thanks.
~SH~
[ May 19, 2013, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 20, 2013 05:05 AM
Scott, Stoney Point makes THIS tripod that uses third leg off their standard PoleCat stix
Once you have that tripod system, you can try mountingTHIS rear rifle support to the third leg.
I have this same setup. Honestly, I was not real crazy about it. But, if you'd like to try it out and see if ya like it, I could send it out to ya. Its just collecting dust in my gear closet, and I wouldn't miss it.
This is what it looks like:
Another alternative would be to keep your bipod on the rifle, and run something like THIS TRICLAWPS System If you already have a tripod for spotting scope/camera/whatever with a quick detachable head mount, you can just order THE TRICLAWP gun cradle and keep it clamped to your rifle stock.
Surf around on that webstie and you'll see how it can be employed.
I have that Triclawp head, and it is friggin' rock solid on the Manfrotto carbon fiber tripod/ball head I use with my vid cam...
Good luck, and if you wanna test drive that Stoney Point gizmo, holler!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted May 20, 2013 05:43 AM
Scott chuck has that tripod system shown above also. I don't think he has the extra rear stock piece though i might be able to bring it down when we meet up again if you want to take a look at it.
As far as me i have always used the Harris 25S and never had any problems but that is what i learned on. I have used sticks and just don't feel as comfortable on any kind of distance. I'm with bucksnbears though i switch to prone for anything after 250 it seems anymore. Especially this time of year while using dogs i have no problem switching the bipod down to prone without the coyote spooking to "dial and smile". I still need to make one of those "wishbones" for the rear stock those really look handy i'm still using the backpack for the long shots for a rear rest.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted May 20, 2013 06:17 AM
Scott - how heavy is the rifle you are carrying?
A little extra weight can really reduce the movement on the sticks.
Here most of the time I run a short bipod on front and two legged bogpod. In the truck also carry a turkey seat and a dove stool.
Depending on the location, I go prone, short chair or dove stool depending on conditions.
If possible I try to pick a spot where I can go from sitting to prone for the sneaky bass-turds that want to circle.
edit to add - damn Fred where did you find that unit? Don't think I would care for it either.
Stay after them
Kelly
[ May 20, 2013, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted May 20, 2013 05:10 PM
Kelly,
My rifle is as heavy as I want to pack. I think I'll try the Bog Pods and see how I get along. Also had a friend call with a different idea that I'm going to try.
Thanks!
Be gone for awhile.
~SH~
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