The New Huntmastersbbs!: A telling comment from Chris S

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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 06, 2013, 12:28 PM:

Chris S says:

"I called the same spot, with the same sounds and from the same stand, 10 different times this year and never had one come in til yesterday; the 11th time I called the stand . Why the same spot and the same sounds? Because I know they are there.
The other times I called; the time of day was possibly wrong, perhaps the wind was 1.2 degrees different or 2 mph slower, or the coyote was 500 yards south and didn't hear the call. More likely, the other 10 times, it just didn't feel like coming in.

I do know, that I don't know exactly why it chose to come in yesterday to the same sounds I've used before, from the same exact stand and chose not to respond the other times.
I know that they're in the area; that's all I can bank on. So, I'll keep going back."

Chris,

When I first read your statement above, I really respected your determination and I still do but your words really made me stop and think about this a little deeper.

So many times we start second guessing ourselves when we are not as successful as we think we should be rather than admitting that we don't have all the answers to success or failure. When I think about all the variables involved in both calling success and failure, particularly in a situation like this, I really have to stop and question the validity in my own theories.

We all know what works, but we can only speculate on what doesn't work.

It would really be interesting to know if this same coyote heard your routine before or whether it was a different one. If the same coyote heard you before, curiousity finally outweighed caution with the same sound from the same location when we would usually assume that each time creates a more educated coyote.

I guess what I am really getting at is that there really is no set of rules on educated coyotes. Does caution eventually wear off through determination? Does repeat calling eventually lead to a level of comfort with a situation that would normally be considered dangerous to most coyotes? Can calling from the same spot with the same sound work on curiosity as much as caution?

There is many behavioral characteristics about coyotes in how they adapt to their environments and what they can endure that never cease to amaze me. I guess that's why I never get enough of working with challenging coyotes. There's just no hard set of rules.

An ardent student of observation once told me that if you ever place your hand, in a safe manner of course, on a trapped coyote MOST will give up their normal fight to survive. The same thing can happen when you walk a coyote down in deep snow. Each time you jump them MANY TIMES you will get closer each time until you could eventually kill them with a baseball bat. They simply cannot deal with being pursued to that level. I wonder if repeat calling doesn't eventually end up playing the same mind game with them?

A fella told me the other day that he pursued a large tom bobcat on a snowmobile for a short distance until the cat turned and charged him. Took the guy by total surprise.

Anyway, your comments were worth visiting this site again. Thanks for that.

~SH~

[ April 06, 2013, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 06, 2013, 01:08 PM:

I laughed to myself when I read Chris post.
Had the same thing happen a few years ago, I had a area I new a coyote was hanging around and called it off and on all winter. It never showed till about this time of the year it finally came running in. I took a few pic.s with the camera and then let it walk off as I was going to save it for when the fur primed up.. Went back to the same area and called from two different locations off and on again all winter and useing some of the same sounds that brought it in the first time. The dam coyote never showed up till spring time when I decided to go out and give it another try thinking it showed up at this time of year once before, perhaps it would do it again.. Like mentioned maybe the coyote was just giveing up, curious, or perhaps food was in short supply this time of year or perhaps its maternal instincts over powered its need to survive.. This coyote turned out to be a female...

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 06, 2013, 01:15 PM:

or perhaps it WAS A DIFFERENT COYOTE!! [Roll Eyes]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 06, 2013, 01:22 PM:

It could of been, and would agree if we had lots of them around of which we don't, so I tend to lean the other way and make a guess it was the same coyote..
Also from hunting this area all winter there were'nt any signs saying other wise..

[ April 06, 2013, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 06, 2013, 04:22 PM:

SH says:

quote:
It would really be interesting to know if this same coyote heard your routine before or whether it was a different one. If the same coyote heard you before, curiousity finally outweighed caution with the same sound from the same location when we would usually assume that each time creates a more educated coyote

This would be the most interesting info of all. And I would give someone else's arm and a leg, to find out. Had it heard my sounds and come in before and spotted me? Did it just not care the other times? Did it just move into the area? Was it a loner/transient? Was it paired up? So many... too many questions. Unanswerable questions. So, I just keep going back. It only takes that one time for that switch to flip in their head to get 'em moving.

The coyotes in February and March are supposed to be the hardest to call; I've found the opposite to be true, in the area I call.

I could have changed up sounds, repositioned myself, etc. But, I had my reasons for keeping it exactly the same.

Did I mention that it was directly behind an active firing range, where a bunch of wing shooters were blasting clay pigeons at the time?

[ April 06, 2013, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]

Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on April 06, 2013, 08:14 PM:

I call a place that's 500yds beside the local gun range. I have taken 6 cats and 5 coyotes off it in the last 3yrs. I don't think the shooting really has any affect on them. I think they are use to it. Have you ever called a place that looks just right but have never called anything in. I have a place on a blackjack ridge with a small creek running down the side of it. I've called it several times at the head of the draw with out any action, move down the ridge to the end of the draw and you call something ever time. It just looks like you should be able to call something up the draw but haven't had any luck. I've tried different times of the day, sounds and times of the year but no joy.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 06, 2013, 08:44 PM:

I think they get used to the shooting or even traffic in the area.
At one of the V.H. Mr Coyote contests I was comeing back into town (Pierre) from the west and was comeing up on where the V.H. club house is and had a coyote cross the road in front of me heading into a revine just west of the club house. I told Jeff about it the next mourning. Turns out the coyote bedded down for the day in this revine and when the contest started we had one come out onto the gun range...

quote:
It only takes that one time for that switch to flip in their head to get 'em moving.

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 06, 2013, 09:27 PM:

A few large bucks make their home inside the comfy confines of that gun range. And, there are more than a few little coyote crawl unders exiting the range too. The point of pointing that out is, most hunters will bypass those spots, thinking they're too loud or nothing would ever respond so close to an active range. They think they have to be in no man's land calling. Coyotes have adapted to some insane shit; I don't overlook anything and will go oddball places looking to find sign. It may take longer than usual for them to respond, but, once in a while they will, or won't ever.

You know how car alarms go off and no one even cares to look any more? They're more annoyed than interested. TURN IT OFF! I'm sure coyotes do that shit when someone starts blaring a rabbit sound at them.

Coyotes are a goofy bunch.

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 06, 2013, 09:46 PM:

I have a favorite spot that is right behind a state duck hunting refuge, as in, a barbed wire fence boundry is where I sit. One of the absolute most consistent spots I have. Hunters blasting away and coyotes dont give a damn.
Mark

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 06, 2013, 10:15 PM:

You two know this as well as me and a few others, just think of the guys that don't and are dragging those big mufflers around on there rifles..
Been watching some of Team Opps from S.D. hunting vid.s over on P.M... They use and advetise the can. Never seen them make any kills that could'nt of been made without it. and in some of there clips with more than one coyote envolved, most of them head out of dodge after the first shot from a suppressed rifle..LOL
I think its way over rated...

Back to coyotes I've seen them lay up for the day just a 100 yds from most roads in heavey pressured areas, along with them liveing in a grove on a active farm or even in some plum brush less than 100 yds of from a road.. They sure know how to smarten up thats for sure..

[ April 06, 2013, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 07, 2013, 06:48 AM:

Well toothless, I guess you'll have to ask your hero Wiley about what's on the end of his rifle. And if he thinks it is worth it. That's what's wrong with your teeth, you keep sticking a boot in there!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 07, 2013, 08:22 AM:

Okay, Cal. Tell the rest of us nonbelievers. How many coyotes will a suppressor produce?

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 07, 2013, 09:28 AM:

quote:
Never seen them make any kills that could'nt of been made without it.

Mr. Perfect speaks again. Remind us all again how much actual field experience you have behind a suppressor?

No doubt every coyote will react differently to different stimuli/gun shots. Some react to a rifle shot like they've had a hot cattle prod stuck up their rectum, and some hardly react at all. BUT after one full season with a suppressor, I've seen a whole lot less of the hot cattle prod up the rectum reaction than I used to.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Buy a suppressor for your ears and if you happen to kill a few more coyotes in a season because of it, you'll be happy. Besides, a good suppressor is still cheaper than a good set of hearing aids.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 07, 2013, 09:48 AM:

Cal I knew Scott has a suppressure for some time... [Roll Eyes]

Maybe Scott will come fourth and tell us a little about it.. [Wink]

But like I said by watching some guys use them in there vid. I don't see any advantage to haveing one other than to protect ones hearing.. Ear plugs will work for that and they are alot cheaper.

[ April 07, 2013, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 07, 2013, 09:51 AM:

Makes sense to me, TR.
Mark

[ April 07, 2013, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 07, 2013, 10:03 AM:

As far as saveing your hearing goes check this link out.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18576_5-ridiculous -gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html?utm_souce=Crackedoutbrain

The supressed rifle is still putting out 104 db.'s which is equivalent to a WT 2030 placed at your side on full volume..

[ April 07, 2013, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on April 07, 2013, 10:08 AM:

One thing I have learned from the internet about mufflers on my gun.

I built a 300/221 fireball,300 Whisper,300 Blackout or better known as a 30 cal. WTF now days.

So I could have a semi auto low recoiling rifle in the 30-30 class of power. Now when reading these guys tell me I am a complete idiot because I don't use a can and I am defeating the whole purpose of the cartridge.

Sorry I defeated the purpose of the cartridge but for the needs I have there isn't any reason for me to add the extra weight, length or money, I built what I wanted.

One thing that irritates me with the new silencer crowd. Silencers have been legal to own for as long as I can remember. I got on a kick and had several, last one 1992 but once I got over the cool factor the economics, use and form factor it just don't appeal to me as a every time I hunt I got to have one.

BTW:John Wayne would have NEVER wore ear plugs hunting.

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 07, 2013, 10:11 AM:

All boot licking and groveling aside:

What amazes me is how Wiley E thinks, it's very impressive. I'm always intrigued by the minute details he picks up on and how he breaks them down. Abstract thinking and never boxed in. It's fascinating, to say the least.

Wear Quad Muffs to enhance your hearing and silence the shot and use a suppressor to avoid the hot prod in the coyotes ass. Solutions!

[ April 07, 2013, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Chris S ]

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 07, 2013, 10:20 AM:

Tim, did you even read the anything from your link.

quote:
Specifically, they make it really hard to tell where exactly the shot is coming from, or how far away it is.

Now I wonder how that MIGHT be handy when calling coyotes?

Here's another.

quote:
An unsilenced gunshot is around 140 to 160 decibels--that's in the range where hearing it once can permanently damage your ears. If you've never had a gun go off next to you, trust us when we say it's loud enough that your whole body will flinch at the sound of it. A silencer can get that all the way down to 120 or 130 decibels,

I'm sure you can advise us all about how much more or less hearing damage is done when subjected to 120 decibels when compared to hearing damage that may be caused by 140 or even 160 decibels. It is my understanding that as the decibel level rises, the amount of damage rises quicker.

Remind us all to, how often do YOU WEAR ear plugs while out calling coyotes?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 07, 2013, 10:27 AM:

About a year ago or so we talked about how a gun blast affects coyotes on a stand, some say it did'nt bother the coyote too much and others said differently. I said it has mostly to do with what cal. of gun you use and distance coyote is from the gun when it goes off and found with useing a 17 cal. vrs. a 22-250 or bigger some if not most of my coyotes are'nt bothered by it too much..
Well you suppressor guys just proved my theory to be right, if what you are saying is true as far as the results by going to one vrs. without..LOL

According to most 104 db. is still loud and you will still suffer a hearing loss, also thats what I have been told by others here when they found out I use my Wt at my side...
I don't wear ear plugs on stand, been useing Walkers quad game ears or just go without since I'm shooting a little bitty 17 cal.

[ April 07, 2013, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 07, 2013, 10:31 AM:

Tim,You're entitled to your opinion but why you'd keep giving them on something you have never used and obviously know little about amazes me.So hopefully,your opinions are given the weight they deserve.
They DO protect your hearing contra to that article.Shoot one,you'd know it.The enhanced muffs are fine,but ear plugs are stupid(and I've used them).Many times I'd miss out annually if I wasn't able to hear howls;pheasants flushing/cackling;grass moving etc-multiple hearing clues that are important.How one could 'call' effectively with ear plugs eludes me.
For me,it's not 'hearing' or 'confused' coyotes,it's the benefit of shooting better.With suppressors I'm shooting like I did 20 years ago.I shoot many cases of heavy waterfowl loads annually and 'flinching' is a fact of life for anyone that does that.Tell me you do that and don't flinch and I'll call you a liar.
With the suppressor,I 'see' them die most of the time and flinching is gone til the next Fall.I don't know a single person that has owned one and then quit using them.Wonder why?

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 07, 2013, 10:33 AM:

So in other words, you agree that a suppressor DOES have it's advantages? See, that wasn't that hard now was it? [Wink]

Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on April 07, 2013, 10:37 AM:

Got some meat cooking in the smoker and wondered what to do to fill the time waiting.
1. Take a nap
2. Mow the grass
3. Watch Tim make an ass of himself.

I think I will watch Tim make an ass of himself.

Tim don't let them run over you with that decibel shit. We know you already have ear plugs in with that WT going around and round over your head.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 07, 2013, 10:59 AM:

DiYi, I've been around them so its nothing new to me. A friend had one till it got stolen out of his truck. [Frown]

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Specifically, they make it really hard to tell where exactly the shot is coming from, or how far away it is.

Yep I noticed that when I use my 17 cal.s.

quote:
I'm sure you can advise us all about how much more or less hearing damage is done when subjected to 120 decibels when compared to hearing damage that may be caused by 140 or even 160 decibels. It is my understanding that as the decibel level rises, the amount of damage rises quicker.

In most cases your hearing gets damaged from doing it over a long period of time, like sessions at a shooting range or a skeet shoot, the one or two shots from a rifle every few days has very little effect, unless of course you are shooting a very big cal. like a 6mm rem. or more or shooting from the back of a truck..
When OSHA does there sound tests in a work area its for a 8 hr work day, and not just a few minutes..

quote:
For me,it's not 'hearing' or 'confused' coyotes,it's the benefit of shooting better.With suppressors I'm shooting like I did 20 years ago.I shoot many cases of heavy waterfowl loads annually and 'flinching' is a fact of life for anyone that does that.Tell me you do that and don't flinch and I'll call you a liar.

I don't shoot big cal. rifles or 3" loads in my shotty and try to stay away from them if I can that way I don't develope a flinch problem like you have. Proably why I do so well with my shooting...

quote:
With the suppressor,I 'see' them die most of the time and flinching is gone til the next Fall.I don't know a single person that has owned one and then quit using them.Wonder why?

Yep I see the same thing by useing a 17 cal., thats why I use one. Still don't have a flinching problem so I good there.
Yeah if I stuck a bunch of money into something to use for hunting and could'nt get rid of it then yep if it did'nt hurt I would proably keep useing it...

quote:
So in other words, you agree that a suppressor DOES have it's advantages? See, that wasn't that hard now was it?

Yeah it does if you are shooting one of the big cal. but it still is'nt going to get you any more coyotes like some seem to think and you still need hearing protecting when useing one..

Edit to add. I'm not against haveing a suppressor, I might get one some day but only for the right reason and thats just to have a cool toy to play with...

[ April 07, 2013, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 07, 2013, 11:36 AM:

Geezus Tim, would you just shut up...I think I agree with you, buying a $200 suppresser and paying $200 more for the permit and waiting six months for all that "cool" advantage is obviously worth it. I don't know how I can kill a coyote without it but it sure puts me at a disadvantage, judging by what I am reading, above.

Me and TA are just about the biggest dummies on the Board. <eek> Imagine, I could be damaging my hearing, (what little I have left) by 160 decibels instead of 104! In theory.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: PS, I find a 28-30" barrel reduces noise, is that imaginary?

[ April 07, 2013, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 07, 2013, 12:12 PM:

Same noise level....just six inches further away from your deef ears.

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 07, 2013, 12:39 PM:

Tim, even one shot from a 22lr is damaging your hearing, this was what my ear doctor told me and I'm inclined to believe he might know what he's talking about since he's working with the army to help soldiers prevent hearing loss.

I've also walked behind the OSHA guy while he was checking noise levels at my shop. Never asked how long the machine ran during the day just turned it on and if it was over the limit, I think 90 decibels, I had to hang a sign and enforce hearing protection.

Now I never used hearing protection but I did notice how young ears are more easily bothered by noise. That's one reason I bought a suppressor for my grand daughters while they shoot a 22. Is it cool? Ya it is to an extent. Shooting supersonic ammo sounds like someone is shooting over yonder ways but I'm not sure where. Will it add more coyotes? Who knows but it won't hurt.

[ April 07, 2013, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 07, 2013, 01:26 PM:

quote:
Tim, even one shot from a 22lr is damaging your hearing, this was what my ear doctor told me and I'm inclined to believe he might know what he's talking about since he's working with the army to help soldiers prevent hearing loss.

Yes Tom I agree and thats my point, even though you have a suppressor on a center fire you still have enough noise to damage your hearing or alert the coyotes, how they react is up to them.

As for the OSHA guy he probably already knew your working hours or automaticly figures eight working hours into what reading he gets from the sound meter to determine weither you need additional hearing protection.. For us its figured into a 12 hr. day. Some of the older machines we have like the old D-9's for example require double hearing protection. Most of the operators were'nt aware of this 8-10 years ago and now suffer a major hearing loss...

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 07, 2013, 01:35 PM:

If you've shot one,you know.Noise is reduced.Pretty simple.Or,maybe you don't believe in car mufflers either.Whatever.
The 'area' is so full of BS,claims,different testing methods,it's hard to know what to believe but,BUT,ask yourself why some European countries promote/require them and why the military uses them.Better yet,look up military testing.
Before I started using them I tried to get some reliable info.Best I could gather after hours of research and reading was that NO suppressor,when shooting hyper sonic ammo,ever got you down to 85 decibels('hearing safe').
Assorted suppressors(makes)varied in reduction from about 15 dbs to the low 40 dbs.The average was around the 30 db mark.That gets you down to the 'not causing permanent damage from incidental use'level.Good enough for me.By the way,common ear plug protection only reduces db level between 18 and 34 dbs.Take your pick.
Could care less what anyone does or believes,if legal,try one.If not or you don't want to,don't.
Simple as hell.
Good hunting-and hearing.

[ April 07, 2013, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: DiYi ]

Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on April 07, 2013, 01:57 PM:

I don't know much about the cans but I think coyotes get use to noise same as everything else. we use to turn out about 1000 head of yearlings across the fence from a air base, it always took all day to settle them, and about a week before they acted like t was ok, we fly a bombing range every winter for hogs and coyotes, doesn't bother them to be living right where they are dropping the shells so they most be use to it also

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 07, 2013, 02:11 PM:

We've all called in a coyote after shooting one a few minutes before. I think as long as the bullet doesn't whiz by their heads, most of them don't pay a shot any attention.

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on April 07, 2013, 05:39 PM:

Tom is exactly right in regards to the .22 rf. Also, Tim you suggested your 17's have a reduced noise level, comparing them to other centerfires. FYI, the bore size is not directly related to the noise level as you have suggested.

As far as supressors, my only experience has been with 22rf. I know the surrounding terrain has a lot of influence over what noise is perceived by the shooter. Shoot a suppressed 22 in timber, and it still is pretty loud. I think terrain must then effect how a coyote perceives/reacts to a shot. I have shot at a coyote, missed and had them do the cattle prod sprint right to me. Here, I think this was a case of terrain and its effects on noise. Perhaps, the suppressor provides this kind of 'terrain deviated' report which would seem to be beneficial in the case of multiples or poor ass shooting.

Maintain

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 07, 2013, 06:31 PM:

Need more input, still not convinced and it does not take much to convince me, where coyotes are concerned.

I'm still thinking it's fashionable. <yawn>

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 07, 2013, 07:34 PM:

Your right Geordie, I suppose I should of gave more detail but thought you would of figured out what I was saying...
It has to do more with powder burn rate and the amount of a powder charge, more powder burned louder boom... You could toss in barrel length as well, to slow of a powder/short barrel less of the powder gets burned...

Depending on where a bullet strikes the ground this can change the direction of a escapeing coyote or fox. Like shooting over the top with bullet hitting up/behind from the animals position.. Sometimes if you had a missed shot at a coyote or fox you could shoot in front of them and a little back and have them change direction of travel, not always but enough that it would'nt hurt to try..

[ April 07, 2013, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 08, 2013, 05:42 AM:

quote:

Sometimes if you had a missed shot at a coyote or fox you could shoot in front of them and a little back and have them change direction of travel, not always but enough that it would'nt hurt to try..

Another gem to marvel at...

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 08, 2013, 07:03 AM:

riddle me this batman, was shooting Saturday and a guy had a 6.5X47 using H4350 powder and I had 243AI using R22 with a heavy load....my AI when suppressed did not make as much noise as the 6.5X47 using the same suppressor.

PS that exploding shit is FUN to shoot with a suppressor...

PSS - that 6.5X47 loaded with 160's and trailboss "sub sonic" suppressed sounded like a pellet gun and we still could ring the gong at 300 with it.

Never hunted coyotes with one, but they couldnt hurt...

Stay after them
Kelly

[ April 08, 2013, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 08, 2013, 08:06 AM:

quote:
PS that exploding shit is FUN to shoot with a suppressor...

I concur, prairie dogs are a blast to shoot while suppressed.. maybe not the exploding shit you's talkin' about, but it's a fact none-the-less.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on April 08, 2013, 08:38 PM:

Good Gawd!!!!!!! Sometimes timmys posts make me laugh out loud.... alright alright ALL of his posts make me laugh outloud!!!! Next time a coyote is running away I'm gonna shoot all around it just to change the direction he is running..... that's an incredible breakthrough in coyote hunting bullshittery right there timmy!! If I do it right will he run back to me? Who needs a dog or a call for that matter, i'm just gonna drive around and shoot around coyotes till they run back and jump in the truck with me!!!

All the nonsense aside this started as a very interesting thread and certainly makes one contemplate what we "think" we know.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 08, 2013, 09:19 PM:

Not a coyote but you should get the picture..

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/09-10%20Fox% 20and%20coyotes/th_Deletepartially2of232010_163952.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 09, 2013, 04:13 AM:

Picture I get is lousy shooting. [Frown]

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 09, 2013, 06:00 AM:

somebody should've taken a rest.............on the mirror or across the hood for cripes sake.. [Eek!]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on April 09, 2013, 06:15 AM:

I'm speechless timmy!!!! was that you on the "pred" wasting bullets? maybe you should try an SKS with a 30 round clip, seems about right in accuracy and capacity to fill your needs up there in minneeesoda. Yes tim I guess you could say that I get the point, you're a blathering idiot, what kind of "special" person shoots at an animal to change it's course? Be sure to post that video with an explanation of your logic all over the WWW, I like to share a laugh with other hunters.

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 09, 2013, 08:23 AM:

Really? Bashing TA hasn't gotten OLD for any of you? EVERY THREAD has to go south and into the depths of hell just so ppl can bash him some more? The guy has his own theories, and disagrees with everyone else's theories. So what. It gets pretty boring watching each thread devolve into who can bash TA to death with a hammer, AGAIN! Just ignore his posts. Damn.

And don't say you're doing a service for other ppl that might read his shit and take it as truth. If you read his writings and take them as the gospel truth, or anyone's writings, for that matter, you need a kick to the balls. You can't just let his BS go unchallenged? Yes you can, you just want to bust his balls.

I'm not sticking up for him, I'm simply sick of seeing the fucking wreckage of every thread once he posts some nonsense.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2013, 08:59 AM:

Let's jump on Chris S today, to take the pressure off of Timmy. Dumb ass Micheeganner.

I can see that his new title has gone to his head. Now, he's the Great Peecemaker.

How about this. Tim can send his BS to smithers who can proofread his thoughts, sanitize and publish what's left? (assuming something is left?)

This could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship; both cold states, both begin with "M", both kinda special.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 09, 2013, 09:02 AM:

Go ahead and take me to task for any BS I've ever written. I welcome it. [Smile]

You guys can kick that dead horse til it's deader... I'm just mentioning how fucking irritating it can be watching every thread take the same path.

That's one of the many reasons TA has been banned from every other site on the net.

[ April 09, 2013, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Chris S ]

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 09, 2013, 11:03 AM:

Im locking this damn thread right now!

[ April 09, 2013, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 09, 2013, 11:12 AM:

Lone Howl

quote:
posted April 09, 2013 11:03 AM Im locking this damn thread right now!

Said the PM mod squad.

Y'all are just jealous of TA and all he's accomplished. It's easy to see why you want to knock him down. Built him up, made him famous, now you want to tear the pedestal out from under him. Same thing happened with Deney Terio Dance Fever and the Solid Gold Dancers... America's fetish with beating down our best and brightest.

[ April 09, 2013, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Chris S ]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on April 09, 2013, 03:56 PM:

quote:
I'm simply sick of seeing the fucking wreckage of every thread once he posts some nonsense.

quote:
I'm just mentioning how fucking irritating it can be watching every thread take the same path.

Relief is one left click away my friend, here ya go.... Chris and tims official website

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 09, 2013, 04:26 PM:

now if someone could photoshop a WT on top of that dude with the red tites ass..... [Wink]

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 09, 2013, 04:39 PM:

JD, you took time out from the Cajon Pass glory hole to post that? Weak.

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 09, 2013, 04:40 PM:

I think everyone tries (really hard) to gloss over, ignore, read without responding TA's blatherings, but we all have a threshold. It's more about letting the general population know that you ain't buying, but sometimes you're so offended you just can't help screaming BULLSHIT, FUCKING BUUUUULLLLLLSHIT, at the top of your lungs!!

We are priviledged, this is one of few, if not the only place on the net to get all knowed up by the legend.

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 09, 2013, 04:50 PM:

i'm gonna go out tomarro, find some coyotes and shoot at them to try to get them to run into an open river. . gots about 500 rounds to do so....

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 09, 2013, 05:00 PM:

Yeah, I know, I was in a sour mood.

Do whatever ya want, you're all grown ups, sorta; you can make your own life decisions. It was my one shot at being a life coach...

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2013, 05:01 PM:

And, that's why a Mini 14 is perhaps the ultimate running coyote rig. I always knew they were good for something!

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 09, 2013, 05:10 PM:

you failed Chris!!!!!!!!!!1

Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on April 09, 2013, 06:20 PM:

Well this just keeps getting better and better, went from calling by a gun range to cans on guns and now TA and Chris S are getting beat to death. Man you can't beat this place, carry on MEN.

Posted by KaBloomR (Member # 4252) on April 09, 2013, 06:35 PM:

I'm with bh on this. I wish Tim would further expound on the "Herding Coyotes via Gunfire" method. I have a couple of 30 round P-Mags to try out. Why screw around with calling?

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on April 09, 2013, 07:28 PM:

quote:
JD, you took time out from the Cajon Pass glory hole to post that? Weak.

That's actually slightly humorous, which is odd considering that you're usually sharp as a marble.

I'm just giving you shit of course.... I for one think you would make a fine life coach. Maybe you could start a clinic to help disfunctional predator hunters and call it

Disfunctional and
Insensitive
Predator
Shooters and
Herders
Intense
Therapy
Sessions

Or D.I.P.S.H.I.T.S. for short..... of course you would need to be based in Minneeesoda somewhere close to timmy, whom I'm sure would be the head dipshit.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 09, 2013, 08:49 PM:

quote:
I'm with bh on this. I wish Tim would further expound on the "Herding Coyotes via Gunfire" method. I have a couple of 30 round P-Mags to try out.

Like I said in my oringinal post you can change an escapeing coyote or fox's direction of travel by shooting in front of it and farther back, "it don't work everytime but enough to where it does'nt hurt to try".. Sometimes we may kick up a coyote and it heads in a direction we don't want it to go like a weak side that does'nt have a shooter in position or to a larger section. What freaks them out is the bullet hitting the ground and not the muzzle blast in most cases..

When calling to coyotes useing vocals not all coyotes will show up right away some will come in to investagate the howls anywhere from a few hours up to 12 hr.s or more, it was proven also in some studies done on them so its nothing new..
Some coyotes will stick around this area for sometime waiting or looking for this other coyote to show back up..
If you think its B.S. then I challenge you to go out and locate a coyote if your coyotes are vocal. If you know your area and coyotes then make the locate howls from 1/2-3/4 mile away and then come back the next night set up in same spot and locate them again. I'm willing to bet that coyote you located will be very close. Its nothing new and from what it sounds not many know how to use it to there advantage.. Maybe I can find one of Higgins posts on the matter....

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 09, 2013, 09:16 PM:

I hate to bother but if you're good enough to pick your shots, why not just kill it?

Oh wait, you don't want to drag it out so you herd it closer to the truck...

Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 09, 2013, 09:47 PM:

JD, that's some funny stuff! Right up there with the red leathers on Melrose post last year by LB.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 09, 2013, 09:59 PM:

Tom: Most of the times when we try to turn a running coyote or fox is when its to far to make a good shot on it from a standing position..
It does'nt matter where a coyote drops and if we have to walk another 200 yds or more we just do it and depending on who's property we hunt on and depth of snow we may drive a truck out to pick up the hunter and coyote, we can and its legal ....

Here is the post made by Rich H. on howling and how some coyotes react to it. [Big Grin]

quote:
Rich Higgins
unknown comic

posted December 08, 2006 06:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim, if you enter a resident coyotes core area and broadcast a howl, with or without prey distress, those residents will be compelled to approach and investigate. Plain and simple.
The crux is, that depending on their past experience and resultant level of security, they may approach immediately and investigate or they may wait many, many hours before doing so. Seventeen hours in one instance with a collared pair of coyotes in Idaho.
One interesting way to find out for certain; conduct a short stand with a couple of howls and several different distress sounds, get up and squirt some mist or coyote urine in the spot that you sat, set up a trail cam to cover that spot and leave. Return the same time next day and recover your camera. The time code will tell you if the time delay is short enough for you to exploit. I think you and I discussed this when you were here.

Its happen more than once and to other members as well. I think Leonard mentioning getting 4-5 coyotes on a stand..

quote:

quote:
Beastmaster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 210

posted July 15, 2007 12:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Seventeen. I have one too! Remington BDL. You be right when you say a screaming causes interest long after such is abandoned by the gun. I did a desert screaming . . . waited for fifteen minutes . . . then motored to about a half mile away and made another set-up. While I was waiting for the desert to calm down I glassed the site of the previous set-up. Saw a coyote sniffing around my hide-out.Sumbitch even lifted a leg on it. I have used the same principle to call lion. It is illegal to shoot lion at night in Arizona. I would go out at night and make a number of screaming set-ups, each lasting ten minutes or so. When daylight came I would retrace my route and do a legal screaming. Some of the time I wopuld Bingo. Also have used this technique when trapping, screaming for a few minutes when each set was finished. I feel doing so cause me to skin subtantially more fur.

[ July 15, 2007, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209

posted January 20, 2007 09:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2Dogs,

I've hunted Red fox like that a few times, but never coyotes. We'd spot them in the snow, then sneak in as close as we could. If they were still out of range, we'd shoot over them. Trying to hit 20 yards directly behind them. If all went well, they would run towards us, then stop and look back at the impact, giving us a broadside, in range shot.

--------------------
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003 | IP: Logged

TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794

posted January 21, 2007 04:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Tim B. don't be giveing out our fox hunting secrets.. There are somethings other hunters need to find out on there own....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4100 | From: Minn. | Registered: Jan 2006 | IP: Logged

[ April 10, 2013, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on April 10, 2013, 06:01 AM:

Well I hate to say it but I saw my buddy lead a coyote to far and shot in front of it. The coyote did a right turn and started coming right to us. Now he wasn't trying to herd it, he just lead it to far in the shot. Tim your last post made a little sense, I think that's how bigfoot hunts coyotes he throws a rock in front of them and turns them into his hunting buddy who grabs them when they run by. HEY IT COULD HAPPEN!!!!

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 10, 2013, 07:15 AM:

there are some scientist that beleive that science has proven "man made" global warming, but there are other scientists that are skeptics.

Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 21, 2013, 02:51 PM:

Back to suppressors. The advantages of suppression are many. Here's the short list...

1. Due to the noise reduction, you don't need to wear hearing protection.

BTW, Tim, you don't have much if any hearing left so I can understand how you would not see that as an advantage....just saying.

2. Due to the noise reduction, you can shoot over and around decoy dogs without causing them to become gun shy. Of course many dogs are oblivious to shooting but some aren't and it's a damn difficult thing for some dogs to get over.

3. Due to the noise reduction, you can shoot coyotes without alarming someone else who might happen to be in the same area.

4. Suppression reduces flinching (sp?) and makes shooting a lot more enjoyable.

5. Suppression greatly reduces recoil with larger caliber rifles allowing you to watch your shot hit it's target which also keeps you from pulling your head after the shot.

6. Suppression will help you pick up more coyotes in more situations such as a pair where the one trailing is still behind the hill or when a coyote cannot tell where the shot originated and runs towards you.

A friend of mine has a picture of two coyotes sitting side by side on the ice of the Cheyenne river. He shoots the first coyote with a suppressed 6MM. The second coyote turns and looks at the first coyote as the second bullet hits it. Why no reaction from the second coyote in that situation? Due to the echoing of the shots in that situation (canyons, shooting downhill, ice, snow, etc..?) there was very little bullet or gun noise.

There is no question that suppression is a big advantage in many situations. The question is whether or not the price ($1250 for titanium in .30 caliber and extra baffling) and $200 for the permit and $100 for threading the barrel along with thread protector is worth those advantages.

Personally, I wouldn't want to ever go back to hunting without it. It's just makes shooting so much more enjoyable. If you haven't been around them it's like a large air compressor hose being disconnected. It's not hollywood until you get into subsonic ammunition.

I shot a 10/22 ruger with a fully suppressed barrel and subsonic ammunition and the only sound you can hear is the action opening and closing. It's almost spooky and you question whether a shot was even fired if you don't hear the bullet hit.

Disadvantages:

1. Price

2. Extra length always getting caught in branches and pickup doors etc.

3. Little extra weight to carry reduced some with titanium.

Get in there like a bitin' sow and get you one Leonard, you'll be glad you did.

~SH~

[ April 21, 2013, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 03:04 PM:

quote:
1. Due to the noise reduction, you don't need to wear hearing protection.

Is the report/blast below 104 dbs if tested on a center fire rifle???? (example 22-250, 243 win. and ect)

Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 21, 2013, 03:13 PM:

Depends on the caliber and the hole diameter of your suppression. I'm shooting a .30 caliber suppressor with a .243 and I just know it's a huge reduction in noise. Never had it tested and don't really see the need to test it.

~SH~

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 03:43 PM:

Here are a couple of vid. with a suppressor being used in S.D... Watch how the other coyotes react to the sound of a suppressor..
Just saying is all................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6QXX6chpLq0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wUZ8WyyQogs

You got your can on? LOL

[ April 21, 2013, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 21, 2013, 04:24 PM:

Question for the suppressor crowd.
Have you tested for any POI change of your rifle with the suppressor on, vs. off?
If so, what have your findings been?
If not, why not?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 21, 2013, 04:28 PM:

Tim, those guys are lousy shots and the time they take to shoot drives me nuts. The suppressor looks marginally effective, judging by the size of it unless it's on a 221 Fireball?

SCOTT~ as a retiree on a fixed income, I am saving for a suppressor. No more egg McMuffins..... If I hang on to this years tax refund and also the next couple years, I might be able to swing it. Then, of course, it will be Katie bar the door!

DEAR ABBY
I slide my rifle into a soft case between every stand and that thing is too long and bulky to go in the case so what would I do, unscrew it before and after every stand?

signed;
Dazed and Confused

DEAR DAZED AND CONFUSED,
Wrap it in your mother's old quilt. That's what I do, and it's Katie, bar the door!

Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 21, 2013, 05:04 PM:

Tim,

JO is probably shooting the same suppressor as I have since he is a class 3 dealer and we ordered our suppressors together. He now endorses those suppressors and does a real nice job of filming.

If you pay close attention, you will notice that these coyotes all sensed something was wrong before the shot based on either sounds, sights, or smells they didn't like. More than likely, they saw the shooters skylined. So don't blame the total reaction on the shot when the "fear factor" was already present as well as the direction of the danger.

Suppression does not eliminate the crack of the bullet which is more than enough to scare most coyotes as well as the gun shot.

What I am telling you from experience is that you will kill more multiple coyotes with suppression than without suppression not to speak of the other advantages I listed.

I really don't need to see the footage since I have seen the actual situation play out numerous times. I wish I could post the footage I saw on the Cheyenne River which shows how suppression will gain you coyotes in certain sound situations.

Knockemdown,

If I remember correctly, the point of impact on my rifle drops 2" at 200 yards with suppression. I missed a coyote with Cal due to my inability to remember that when I had taken the suppressor off. The coyote was about 250 yards and I figured I'd still hit it with a center shot but I didn't. I even commented to Cal that I wasn't sure where it would shoot before I took the shot. Nobody to blame but myself for not knowing for sure at different ranges.

What I can tell you is that, with my suppressor, it's very consistant. Meaning, take it off, 2" high. Put it on, 2" lower.

The supperssor I have has donut baffles as opposed to angular baffles which is supposed to be better for accuracy. In other words, if your suppressor loosens up, it's still supposed to be able to shoot the same (index). In contrast, I HAVE BEEN TOLD (can't prove) that some suppressors, due to their baffles, have to return to the same torgue or risk POI changes. Don't know whether that's true or not.

Leonard,

Unfortunately if you have a suppressor like I have, you have to screw it on and off each time you put it in the case which is a pain I know. It also means you have to keep the threads oiled.
Gem-Tech makes a quick attach suppressor that you push down, turn, then pop on or take off. It's a slick set up but I settled for reduced weight and additional baffling with the extra length. My suppressor would be even quieter had I went with a 6mm hole rather than .30 but I wanted to be able to use it on any gun that was .30 cal and under.

The advantages are worth the disadvantages. I hope you get one because you will really enjoy shooting it particularly with your night hunting adventures.

~SH~

[ April 21, 2013, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 05:04 PM:

quote:
Tim, those guys are lousy shots and the time they take to shoot drives me nuts. The suppressor looks marginally effective, judging by the size of it unless it's on a 221 Fireball?

I agree Leonard,with them being lousy shots. I think they are trying to get you to slide a little closer to the edge of your seat..LOL
I don't know maybe its just me and the way I see it, but are'nt the other coyotes running off after the first shot, whats the advantage if they do this?
I can get the same results by useing a little tiny 17 cal. and proably pretty close to the same dbs as a suppressed 22-250..
From the one I've seen and heard on a 223, yes it does knock the noise down some but its still there and the coyotes know it..
Yeah I have a hearing loss but not completely and have it checked every year, just missing varis tones from running heavey equipement and to me from actually hearing a suppressed 223 I thought suppressed sound was as loud as my 17 center fire..

I would'nt mind useing one on my 22-250 ackley so maybe if you need one as well we could go half and half, you use it dureing the summer and I'll use it in the winter.. [Wink]

quote:
Suppression does not eliminate the crack of the bullet which is more than enough to scare most coyotes as well as the gun shot.

Scott that is my point, guess it got missed somewhere..
I don't use the big cal. to often as I've seen first hand how they (coyotes) react to it going off..
When useing a 17 cal. I've had good results with it as far as takeing a second coyote with it and even my first thriple and know with the thriple if I would of had my ackley along I don't think I would of killed two of them...
Just saying....

[ April 21, 2013, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 21, 2013, 05:12 PM:

Tim,

As you know, coyotes are not always side by side when they come in. If you shoot an early arrival, the coyotes that are still coming will not have heard the shot like they will with an unsuppressed shot to say nothing about the times when the air and terrain variables will help muffle the shot enough to where the second coyote is either undeterred by the shot or cannot detect the origination of the shot. Yes, many times the remaining coyotes will run just like with any other shot but this is a game of percentages.

~SH~

[ April 21, 2013, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 05:32 PM:

Yep I agree and understand (1234) and perhaps that why I do so well or get away with the coyotes I call in. For me less is sometimes better... I also think some of you are finding out why some of us have stayed with the mouse guns for so long...
Just saying...

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 21, 2013, 05:36 PM:

Tim. i don't think ANYONE thinks we shoot needle guns for the reasons your saying. unsuppressed, my .17 will spook coyotes just as well as my bigger cal.s

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 06:00 PM:

oops

[ April 21, 2013, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 06:03 PM:

Read Scotts last post.. I also said "some" and you did'nt make the cut...

Also read this its "extra"

quote:
If you pay close attention, you will notice that these coyotes all sensed something was wrong before the shot based on either sounds, sights, or smells they didn't like. More than likely, they saw the shooters skylined. So don't blame the total reaction on the shot when the "fear factor" was already present as well as the direction of the danger.

Added bonus:

And this is why you have so many N.D. coyotes come in down wind. LMAO

quote:
300 yards down wind has to be a joke? I read it that the OPERATOR is sitting 300 yards downwind of the noise maker, not the other way around, and in wide open country, that makes sense.

yes, this is what i meant .
i have two Fury's and when i hunt alone, it VERY common for me to set up the caller and go downwind-crosswind 300 yards.
when my fav. coyote partner (DiYi) hunt together,we sometimes split up and the one not calling may go downwind 3-4-500 yards. we hunt WIDE OPEN hilly areas and it works for us.

i've had my Fury's respond from over 600 yards away as long as its a GOOD line of site.

Yeah you seem to kill them, but why put them there in the first place. [Eek!]

Just another direction to watch....

[ April 21, 2013, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 21, 2013, 06:20 PM:

yep, i have lots of coyotes come in down wind. i don't like to pussy foot around Tim. get in, get something killed and get to the next spot.
i have ZERO interest in "working" a coyote for an hour [Roll Eyes]

if your WT" remote would work, you should try it. would certainly add to your pelt pile each year [Big Grin]

now since i see you regurgitated this (quote) from another site, please explain your intelect over there...... oh wait [Smile]

its gotta drive you fricken NUTS seeing that so many STILL talk about your ass-hat (buckethead) threads even though you've been booted from there for a couple years. try not to loose sleep though, your still loved by your dog [Smile]

[ April 21, 2013, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 21, 2013, 06:24 PM:

Tim,
Just curious why you'd keep arguing about something you've never tried and know absolutely nothing about.Is it some sort of affliction? Restricted blood flow to the brain?Compulsion of some sort? There must be a physical impairment cause mental illness simply doesn't explain it.

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 21, 2013, 06:28 PM:

again, just guessing but..........
the remote range on his WT ai'nt up to the task and Lord knows he can't find anyone to hunt with anymore.
does seem like he's buttering up to SH latley though

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 06:50 PM:

quote:
if your WT" remote would work, you should try it. would certainly add to your pelt pile each year

I does work and no it would'nt add to my pelt pile. Why would I want to put coyotes directly down wind of me.. [Roll Eyes]

Yeah I'm banned from P.M. so are alot of other members here.. Reason for being banned is because I stood behind a dam good product which took F-P over ten years to copy. And the other reason for being banned is I called B.S. on your buddy TT way before he even got into the decoy dog or school thingy. Yeah they said I was just jealous.. But if you read what has been posted lately about him you will see I was spot on just like Geordie and Shaw, and it just took the rest of you longer to see the light and some never have... [Roll Eyes]

[ April 21, 2013, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 21, 2013, 07:04 PM:

quote:
does seem like he's buttering up to SH latley though

Scott has been my mentor as well as a friend even when we both don't see eye to eye on things. He is also a dam good person and proably is one of the few that I will always have respect for.. I'm not to hot when it comes to words like Scott but more than make up for it when I'm calling to coyotes which is more important to me than what you could possably think.. And yeah if I have to spend a 1/2 or even a hour calling a coyote in I'll do what ever it takes rather than run off and look for a easey mark...Thats also proably one of the most important lessons I learned, "don't give up" and get beat by a little old coyote...

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on April 22, 2013, 04:56 AM:

if your WT" remote would work, you should try it. would certainly add to your pelt pile each year

"I does work and no it would'nt add to my pelt pile. Why would I want to put coyotes directly down wind of me"
-------------------------------
Tim,
I see why a lot of members have begun to ignore your post's. You still have not figured out that holding your WT in your lap or sitting it right beside you actually places the coyote's eyes and nose directly upon YOU. I am not the only one who has explained this fact to you, and yet you STILL have not figured out the glaring truth. Placing the caller cross-wind of your location would help you a lot. Honest it would.

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 22, 2013, 05:23 AM:

Required reading for suppressor doubters.

http://www.elcaudio.com/decibel.htm

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 22, 2013, 05:31 AM:

[Eek!]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 22, 2013, 07:31 AM:

Thanks for the info Cal. I knew most of it before hand but also learned a little more on the subject, it also confirms to how I use a sound meter and the results I saw to be correct.
Also the sound meter I use has three settings for picking up varis speeds or durations of sound and what was written here just confirms I was useing the proper setting when testing varis sounds..
Yeah when testing a rifle for loudness it can over load the meter, the article said they moved the meter back to 50 ft. for the testing, if you go back and read one of my posts on the tests I did I took my readings from roughly 30-40' but also keep in mind I did not test any cal. larger than a 22-250 imp., if I would of included my 270 win. in my test then yes I would have to move the meter out farther...

It could of saved you some time if you would of given Frank a call on the matter like I did, he is more qualified at this than I am but you would also find that I'm close enough for our purposes or purpose of my testing...

Anyway thanks for the help to clear things up.... [Smile]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 22, 2013, 07:43 AM:

quote:
I see why a lot of members have begun to ignore your post's. You still have not figured out that holding your WT in your lap or sitting it right beside you actually places the coyote's eyes and nose directly upon YOU. I am not the only one who has explained this fact to you, and yet you STILL have not figured out the glaring truth. Placing the caller cross-wind of your location would help you a lot. Honest it would.

Rich my coyotes come in from up wind I kill them before they see me, so whats the problem with how I do it..
If you really want to mess with a coyotes head turn the caller 1/4 to a 1/2 turn away from the direction from which it is approaching from..
Oh wait! You can't cause you have it laying on the ground some 30' from your position or in Bucks case 300 yds.. [Eek!]

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 22, 2013, 08:11 AM:

Well Tim if you truly understood anything there then you would have seen that your theories were shot full of holes. First off, dropping from 140 db to 104 db is huge. You said it wasn't. In a rifle shot, it isn't the same as continous sound. You were trying to compare it as if it was. 104 db is a 22 lr. Which is exactly what most of the supressors guys said. It makes a larger centerfire sound about like a 22 lr. I simply can't believe that you would scan through that and agree with it when it makes your past statements incorrect. You continue to amaze. There is absolutely no sense in even trying to show you something where you were WRONG!!!! Anyway, for the rest of you guys that have some reading comprehension and common sense, you can see why and how supressors cut sound to a far more tolerable level.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 22, 2013, 08:45 AM:

quote:
First off, dropping from 140 db to 104 db is huge. You said it wasn't

Yes it is but its still loud. Yes a suppressor will reduce the noise, never said other wise.. I just said its not enough to where you can keep shooting with out the use of hearing protection.
Also in the report it was stated the more shots you fire at one time will also increase the reading (louder) so a shooter dumping a AR mag. on a coyote is going to produce more and louder pressure dbs.

Take you F-P caller and sit it next to you and play one of your coyote vocals in it at full volume. If your caller is as loud as the WT then you will get a reading of 104-106 dbs.. Anyway by doing this will give you a good idea of what 104 dbs is.. Its still freaking loud and will make your ears ring even if you just listen for a second... Most hand calls produce a dbs at or around 80-94 dbs, standing next to a caller blowing on one you will find it is also loud but not as loud as a E-caller so it boils down to what you are compareing the sound to or with..
One of the advantages of knowing this for me anyway is I can leave my caller playing dureing a shot and the caller will cover up the report on my 17 cal. which will alow me to get a shot at a second coyote or third coyote...

If you think a suppressor is going to save your hearing then by all means use one, It will help with the bigger cal.s no doubt but it still will affect some of your hearing...
Hell I might even buy one some day just to play around with but for different reasons... [Smile]

quote:
you can see why and how supressors cut sound to a far more tolerable level.

Tolerable for who? Not everyone hears the same and some sounds depending on the person will affect them more than others.. I know what you are saying and will agree with most but you are trying to lump everyone into just one group..
The sonic crack may not affect me or you but it will someone else...

[ April 22, 2013, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2013, 08:52 AM:

Tim, that link goes to a very technical article, which I didn't take the time to read after the first three or four paragraphs, but you unabashedly come back here and say this:

quote:
Thanks for the info Cal. I knew most of it before hand

Oh. Really? You ought to be ashamed. Look, I know you aren't technically stupid, but that statement really drops your pants down around your ankles. If you "knew most of it" then why have you made completely contrary statements?

I wouldn't call myself a doubter. Only a complete idiot would argue that a suppressor has no value. I managed to call and kill my first coyote in 1968, without a suppressor. Therefore, I can say without fear of contradiction, that a suppressor is not required. It may have certain advantages and a few disadvantages so I look at it as an option, not a requirement.

The gear just keeps piling up. Remember when you could sit beside a bush and use a hand call, wearing street clothes?

I am not exaggerating; back in the day, anything camo'ed was very hard to find. I had a camo shirt, no pants, and (at the time) thought I was the cat's ass.

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 22, 2013, 08:54 AM:

Hey Cal, why don't you stop Googling links and reading on the internet and use some real world experience for a change!
After all, tim thinks no one can learn shit from knowledgeable sources like you referenced, so you are not allowed to use any factual scienfic data!!!

Heck man, you gotta throw the Scientific Method out the window!
Do it tim's way!!!
Dream up your own testing criteria, run the baseless tests at your leisure and interpret the skewed data to support your own contrived hypothesis based on what you think was true, before ya started...

That's how ya prove shit from experience!!!

Wait....whut???

[ April 22, 2013, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 22, 2013, 09:08 AM:

quote:
Tim, that link goes to a very technical article, which I didn't take the time to read after the first three or four paragraphs, but you unabashedly come back here and say this:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the info Cal. I knew most of it before hand
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh. Really? You ought to be ashamed. Look, I know you aren't technically stupid, but that statement really drops your pants down around your ankles. If you "knew most of it" then why have you made completely contrary statements?

Leonard when doing a search months ago I came across similar writtings so yes I'm familar with what Cal posted. As to makeing contrary statements not sure what you are talking about.

As for the decoy dog expert get back in your shell... [Big Grin]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2013, 09:20 AM:

It would be wrong to lump all Minneesotans into the same category based on a careful reading of Tim's extensive remarks on this page and elsewhere. They are not all stupid. Take bearhunter, for instance. He's from Minneesota but he's NOT STUPID! So, give a Minneesotan a break, hold the door to their dog sled, admire their snowshoes and their mad bomber hat; they are normal people, unlike Tim who says stupid things and can't help himself...but it's not because he lives in the north woods or the windswept prairie. It's because he's abby normal. (see, Young Frankenstein)

Good hunting. El Bee

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 22, 2013, 09:22 AM:

LOL, you mad cuz your troll azz has been exposed for spanking on yet another board???

Musta felt good there for a few weeks to feed your inner troll as you racked up your post count and had a few innocent members fooled about your true trollish nature and motivations.

Regardless of the board, you are the epitome of a TROLL.

edit: Leonard's right you just can't help yourself. The personification of: A TROLL

[ April 22, 2013, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 22, 2013, 09:22 AM:

quote:
What sounds cause NIHL?
NIHL can be caused by a one-time exposure to an intense “impulse” sound, such as an explosion, or by continuous exposure to loud sounds over an extended period of time, such as noise generated in a woodworking shop.

Sound is measured in units called decibels. On the decibel scale, an increase of 10 means that a sound is 10 times more intense, or powerful. To your ears, it sounds twice as loud. The humming of a refrigerator is 45 decibels, normal conversation is approximately 60 decibels, and the noise from heavy city traffic can reach 85 decibels. Sources of noise that can cause NIHL include motorcycles, firecrackers, and small firearms, all emitting sounds from 120 to 150 decibels. Long or repeated exposure to sounds at or above 85 decibels can cause hearing loss. The louder the sound, the shorter the time period before NIHL can occur. Sounds of less than 75 decibels, even after long exposure, are unlikely to cause hearing loss.

Although being aware of decibel levels is an important factor in protecting one’s hearing, distance from the source of the sound and duration of exposure to the sound are equally important. A good rule of thumb is to avoid noises that are “too loud” and “too close” or that last “too long.”

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 22, 2013, 09:32 AM:

quote:
Musta felt good there for a few weeks to feed you r inner troll as you racked up your post count and have a few innocent members fooled about your trollish nature.

Did'nt need to fool anyone as they new who the real troll was the minute you showed up..
Some of the members asked me how many more pic.s are you going to post up of your squirrel dog..LMAO

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 22, 2013, 10:34 AM:

Oh tim, its painfully obvious of how jealous you are of my dog, so don't waste your time trying to hide that fact with lies.
I realize it is only your own inflated self worth that allows you to think I could give a flying fuck about what YOU think about my dog.

It is also painfully obvious to see you are only mad for being exposed as the troll that you are.

There is nothing a troll hates worse than being exposed as a troll. Leonard is right, you aren't stupid. You're just a TROLL.

Nothing you can type, or manipulate on the internet will ever change that you are a troll.

100% dyed in the wool...TROLL

Just look at how much you are enjoying trying to make me upset. Trolling 101.

Funny part is, I'm only indulging your inner troll to to make it readily apparent for everyone else to see what you are.

So, keep it up, troll! Everytime you make another trollish post, you prove that you are just a troll...

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 22, 2013, 11:04 AM:

quote:
Oh tim, its painfully obvious of how jealous you are of my dog

LMAO

I see nothing wrong with Pokey, looks to be a great tree-rat dog, it has more to do with the clown on the end of the leash...

[ April 22, 2013, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2013, 12:31 PM:

Tim, I'm getting tired of your bickering. Can you just keep your fucking mouth shut for a while? It seems like you enjoy making enemies.

I get a lot of flack for allowing you to post on Huntmasters. It's almost not worth it. Quit, man! Just knock it off. Take a deep breath, stop and realize what you are doing.

I don't want any kid stuff; "Freddie started it!" No, YOU start it. No email, no come backs, just knock it off! And, for god's sake, quit picking on Pokie, that's all he has to chase in New Yawk, is tree rats. I hate to tell ya, but I get feed back telling me that your dog's nose is suspect, eager but no tracking ability whatsoever. Hurts, huh? So, quit picking on Fred's little buddy, tit for tat.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS just in case I didn't make myself clear....KNOCK OFF THE BULLSHIT!

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 22, 2013, 12:40 PM:

El Trollsidente.

I sense some anger in LB's last post. I believe I heard blood vessels popping all the way over here.

I'm not sure TA is a real person. I think he's one of those automated bots, where you type in something and they type back or speak back.

[ April 22, 2013, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2013, 12:55 PM:

Don't fuck with him, smithers.

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on April 22, 2013, 03:56 PM:

Wow... just plain wow! [Roll Eyes]

*Quietly going back to my corner, now, shaking my head.

Krusty

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 22, 2013, 04:41 PM:

Cal said:

quote:
104 db is a 22 lr.

DA (not to be confused with DAA) said:

quote:
If your caller is as loud as the WT then you will get a reading of 104-106 dbs..

And then said:

quote:
One of the advantages of knowing this for me anyway is I can leave my caller playing dureing a shot and the caller will cover up the report on my 17 cal. which will alow me to get a shot at a second coyote or third coyote...

So I guess the muzzle report of the 17 pred is the same as a .22LR? Please!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[ April 22, 2013, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2013, 05:10 PM:

Hey, I don't know what to do about our idiot child so I guess maybe we shouldn't be asking him to clarify bonehead statements? It seems to come back garbled anyway, kind of a waste of time to play GOTCHA with him? But, calling him on misstated facts is just crazy-maker shit. Either he is extremely clever or he lacks comprehension or both.

But, I am getting damned tired of this crap AND Tim needs to try something different. You had a solution for about a minute and a half and let it get away from ya. Please, show me you are trying..... Amigo, or I'm going to lose my patience! (and that's not good)

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 22, 2013, 05:26 PM:

Maybe I missed the point again? If I'm the amigo you're referring to, hope you are able to come to an equatable solution. Letting him play here comes with a price.

Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 22, 2013, 05:35 PM:

for what its worth: i'd like to see him booted from this and every form. he just has no place on the internet.get sick of his delusional comment/thoughts.
i will add though he does generate traffic (and blood pressure).
how many warnings does he need??.
end of rant.
just hope he don't pull a Harry-Carrie.

[ April 22, 2013, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]

Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on April 22, 2013, 06:00 PM:

You got to give it to Tim he walks to his own beat. He might piss everyone off, but he's not going to kiss anyone ass. If you get rid of him, you guys are going to miss him just think about it. Tim keeps it entertaining around here, but I'm new here so what do I no. Just giving you my 2cents.

Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on April 22, 2013, 06:02 PM:

How much does a suppressor cost?

I could look it up myself but I'm creating conversation to avert your gaze from the elephant in the room. [Smile]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2013, 06:30 PM:

Yes, you (edit: jimanez) missed the point and my comments (above) are directed at Tim Anderson. Other than that, I am positing that asking him to clarify things just drives us deeper into chaos. Therefore it's a waste of time.

I am not telling anybody what they can and cannot do, Jimbo. I might be suggesting that quoting him produces no satisfaction for anybody. Like I said previously, he's clever and slippery and you can't get him to address the point, therefore, it's driving me and I assume everybody else, CRAZY!

I'm suggesting that we, (the membership) ignore him for a while. I'm suggesting that he pay attention to the membership. And our concerns. Maybe I'm not dealing with this intelligently, I admit, I don't know what else to do without banning him....which is incredibly easy to do but for some reason I can't pull the trigger. I mean, is it asking too much?

Tim, behave yourself. Avoid conflicts. Can you do that? Because, if you can't I might have no other choice but to ban your fucking ass! You deserve it. I'm probably wasting my time but it seems so easy. Listen to me! Quit pissing people off, goddamnit!

Good hunting. El Bee

PS and yes, I am finally nearing the end of my rope.

[ April 22, 2013, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on April 22, 2013, 08:51 PM:

Eddie,

No, I won't miss him, not for a second.

Krusty

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 22, 2013, 08:54 PM:

You know I don't care if he thinks differently than me nor do I care if he wants to argue with me, it can be entertaining at times.

But when he starts knowing more than Scott, Cal, Randy, trapper and others who make their living killing coyotes, it pisses me off cause why should they share their knowledge with us if Tim's gonna make up his own bullshit then claim to know it all, while you give him free reign?

At least acknowledge they are trying to do us a favor and slap his head off when he disrespects them.

I guess I should add please.

[ April 22, 2013, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]

Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 27, 2013, 03:37 PM:

Tim,

Do you see many hunters wearing hearing protection in the field? Yes or no?

If not, why not?

So if most hunters do not wear hearing protection in the field anyway, wouldn't they be better off reducing the decibals of their weapons to .22LR levels?

I have been around muzzle brakes on larger calibers and they make my ears ring in pain. In contrast, a suppressor accomplishes the same thing from the standpoint of recoil suppression so why not take the noise down at the same time?

If you can't comprehend that, your are incapable of learning. Seriously! This is so basic.

If you want to argue cost, great?

If you want to argue about waiting periods and the $200 Federal permit, great?

Don't argue noise reduction, don't argue recoil reduction, and don't argue picking up more coyotes unless you truly know something revolutionary that those of us who actually use suppression don't already know.

Cal helped me get my rifle back to centering a 9" target at 400 yards. Thanks Cal for all your help yesterday. What started out as a rotten day ended up being a great day.

~SH~

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 27, 2013, 04:40 PM:

since I gottttta tell somebody, I hit the 30" gong several times this afternoon at 1415 yards. 243AI with a 115 DTAC.

Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 27, 2013, 05:00 PM:

Wow, very nice Kelly. That's a very long range, congrats!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 27, 2013, 05:52 PM:

Scott if you can justify its use or needs to yourself then great, I'm happy for you.. And I'll just leave it at that.. [Smile]

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