|
Author
|
Topic: Berger Bullet Question?
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 26, 2012 10:45 PM
I was looking at the Berger Bullets for use in my new .22-250 AI and I still don't get the way they are listed.
Example:They say the 55 grain "Target" bullet has a B.C of .262 and it is listed for "target shooting and also excellent for larger Varmints(fur harvesting)". And the "Varmint" 55 grain bullet has a larger opening and a B.C of .210 and says not recommended for the fur hunter due to rapid expansion.
That much makes sense to me,but what I don't understand is the 60 and 64 grain "varmint" bullets.They look like they have the small "target" hole and the B.C's are high. The 60 grain bullet has a B.C of .278 and the 64 grainer has a B.C of .294....I really want to try the 64 grain bullet in my Ackley but I don't want a Prairie Dog bullet that won't hold together worth shit......
Any thoughts......
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 26, 2012 11:12 PM
Shit, if you have any thoughts at all about the 64, get it. It is a direct descendant of the 65 grain that I used for years and the story is that they broke the 65 mold and the rebuild turned out 64 and as far as I'm concerned, it's plenty close enough.
I'm still working on a box of 65 grain Starke's (500) that do just fine; kills good, quarter size exits, hardly notice the difference between them and the Bergers.
What I am using in the Middlested is the 62 target, which is discontinued but a direct call to Berger told me they had fifteen boxes left on the shelf and let me have them for $15 a box. But, these aren't fur bullets, they knock the shit out of a coyote even though it's the target point. I also have some 62MEF's which are worse.
Whatever, but I would not think of the 64 as a prairie dog bullet? Have not used them, but I would be very surprised if they were explosive? I think they will zip right through a coyote like the 65's.
I hear ya on Berger's website. I found it a little confusing.
I'd be interested in knowing what you decide, and how they work for you.
Good hunting. LB
[ March 26, 2012, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
|
posted March 27, 2012 08:42 AM
Chad,
Have you considered the Sierra 65gr Gameking ? I sure like the 55gr version. Not the sexiest bullet out there, but effective and shoots well.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 27, 2012 08:50 AM
Thanks Leonard.That tells me alot. I think I will get a box to try. I had good luck with the 35 grain "Varmint" bullet in my .204 so it's definitely worth a try.
That was actually the reason why I wanted to try the 64's,the fact that you spoke so favorably of the 65 grain bullets.I know you mentioned running them around 3900 fps. If I could get 3700 fps with the 64's I'd be really happy considering my barrel length is only 25 inches.I really like the B.C on that bullet and if it will penetrate well even on a shoulder hit that would be what I am looking for.
I will definitely let you know how they perform on coyotes,but it might be awhile.My gun is supposed to be done by the end of May or first of June,and I bought a box of Berger 55 grain Target bullets to fireform with, then I will work up a load with the 64's...
Good hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 27, 2012 08:57 AM
Dave,
Yeah I thought about that bullet too. Again that bullet has a great B.C also I think it's like .303 but they also claim you need either a 1 in 7 twist or a 1 in 10 twist to stabilize it,and my rifle is a 1 in 12 twist.But it might be worth at least a try. I do really like the 55 grain gameking bullet.
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 30, 2012, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 27, 2012 11:19 AM
I have killed a lot of coyotes with the 55 Sierra spitzer. It is not anything like a fur bullet, the quality I especially like about the 65 Berger.
I think it has to do with the construction and the tight point because it seems to zip right through coyotes before expanding. But, I didn't say you wouldn't see damage on a shoulder hit. The off shoulder will likely show considerable damage.
Why are you fireforming with bullets? I routinely fireform 200 with a charge of pistol or shotgun powder, (whatever I have on hand) and a wad of rolled up newsprint. Somewhere on huntmasters there are a couple photos of the baffle I use to fireform in my garage? Saves wear and tear on the barrel, there goes your best accuracy. Just a suggestion.
The other thing is, that 55 Berger is what I did my original work up with. Then I took them hunting. The first thing I did was slam on the brakes for a coyote on a carcass. That coyote stood there and let me shoot at him three times where upon, I put the gun away for the entire weekend. Then I found out they were blowing up, not out of the muzzle, down range! Anyway, that is the long and the short of why I went with the 65; at least I could drive it at the limit, and it would hold together. Who knows? Your twist, your barrel may be different but all I am talking about is my barrel and the road to success.....which wasn't intelligently planned, but it worked out.
Good luck, LB
edit: the velocity work up with the 55 Berger was something over 4400fps and I backed off 1½ grains to a velocity of 4200 and thought that was the cat's ass. Until I tried to shoot that lucky coyote at 200 yards. If you cannot achieve that speed, maybe you won't have any problems?
[ March 27, 2012, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 27, 2012 01:31 PM
Oh I'm not worried about the Fur damage on a shoulder hit, I just want it to punch through and not surface splash. But I'm sure like you said it will probably do the job.
As far as the fireforming goes, I just figured I would load around the max .22-250 Remington(36.5 grains of Varget) load with the 55 grain Berger. From all the hype I've heard the fireforming loads are supposed to be just as accurate as the regular Ackley loads. The Velocity with the above load should be somewhere around 3700 FPS. I guess only time will tell...
I also went Crazy and bought 200 of the Lapua .22-250 Brass... ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I am definitely going to buy a Box of the 64 grain Bergers....
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 27, 2012 05:32 PM
Speaking of Fur bullets. This gun is not going to be much of a fur gun anyway. My Brother and I have recently been messing around with some local Contests,and are probably going to starting entering more of them and bigger ones. So really this gun is going to be mostly for that, and of course some Night hunting. And I also have about a dozen Sheepmen here in Utah who have asked me to help them with some Coyote problems. So that is what this gun is going to be mostly used for...
For a strictly Fur gun I still really like to Use my .17 Tactical and 25 grain Bergers (target) or 30 grain Kindler Golds...
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
|
posted March 27, 2012 06:28 PM
In talking to Berger in the past, the size of the hole in the nose has little do do with performance. They claim the varmint bullets are scored deeper down the side of the bullet to make them expand more violently. I'm shooting the 62 grain varmint (discontinued) in my 22x47 Lapua and love it. I have several hundred and when I run out I will probably switch to the 64.
[ March 27, 2012, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
--------------------
Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 27, 2012 07:59 PM
Thanks Cal.
Have you ever had any problems with surface splashes with the 62 grain bergers on shoulder hits ? I really don't care if there is excessive fur damage, just want to drop them dead.
I remember you saying how much you liked the 68 grain bergers in .243. So I'm hoping the 64's will be the cats ass....
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 27, 2012, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 28, 2012 01:13 AM
I don't think you have to worry about surface splash with the 62. Although I have not been using them a whole lot, in either the 22-250 AI or this 22-243Midd, they aren't surface splashes. They mess up a coyote real good, but not until well inside. I have a lot more experience with the 64 and 65 but I think the 62 knocks the shit out of a coyote and you can forget about runners....if you do your part. lol I'm basing this opinion on limited previous use with the 22-250Ackley and very limited use lately with the Middlested.
Sounds like Cal has a lot more experience with the 62? How does it perform at whatever velocities you get out of that 22x47? I didn't know you were using that particular bullet? But, if you call them, they might have a few boxes left? When I call, they had 15 boxes and I only bought 4. And, they only charged me $15 so I probably should have bought more? The previous 62's I was using and still have some are the MEF.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
|
posted March 28, 2012 06:44 AM
I might give them a call LB. The 22 cal.62 is a coyote smasher at 3820 fps. In 6mm I did use the old 68 mef with great success, but they also discontinued it. So I started shooting the 6mm 66 varmint. Now the assholes have discontinued that one also. But the Heid boys, myself, and a couple others are going together to order 15k of the 66s. As that is the minimum to get them to make a run of the 66s.
[ March 28, 2012, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
--------------------
Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 28, 2012 07:51 AM
Well Shit,maybe I better order a few boxes of the 64's as it seems like Berger discontinues there bullets quite often.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 28, 2012 09:53 AM
Cal, that's right in the same ballpark I get with the 22-243Middlested. about 3810-15fps or so. I'm not a big experimenter but I did try the 64 and couldn't work up the velocity I wanted...it was around 36XX somewhere below 3700. By the way, I am running the 62 behind 47 grains of H4831.
But, for what I want, the 62 seems to answer the call, so far? I know it will come to the end of the road, and after that I figure I will try the 60? or maybe the 65 Starke, and find a powder. I still have a couple hundred of them.
Whatever, these four boxes might last me a couple seasons. I'm not worried.
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 29, 2012 01:20 PM
Speaking of that Middlestead, How are you liking it?
And how does it compare to your .22-250 AI? I know in your case they are different animals but does one have an advantage over the other if all things are equal? I sure had a hell of a time deciding whether to get the Middlestead over the Ackley. I was sold on the Middlestead because of the Lapua brass,but then Lapua started making it for the .22-250 so that made my decision for me...
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 29, 2012 01:36 PM
Well, I guess I just have a good barrel on the Ackley but I admit that I was a little disappointed that I couldn't get near Ackley velocities with more capacity. So, I gave up on the 65's and H414. The pressure peaked before the velocity was anywhere near what I expected.
But, one thing is clear to me, a good 22-250 Ackley is just about all you would ever need in twenty-two caliber. I have always felt that the capacity favored heavier bullets and yet people want to drive 55's as fast as possible and are disappointed when the advantage over a stock 22-250 or a Swift is marginal. That, and insisting on a 24 inch barrel.
Good hunting. LB
PS, oh, so far I am quite pleased the the Middlested. No, it does not outperform the Ackley, or even equal it, but it's pretty good enough for daylights and that's all I expect of it.
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 29, 2012 02:28 PM
I have to admit the Lapua brass was only part of my decision. Alot of it was how you and a couple others hold the .22-250 Ackley in such high regard.
And I also agree with the heavier bullets,that was another reason to get the Ackley over the standard .22-250, more capacity to push them along. And the icing on the cake is the better brass. My goal with a 25 inch barrel and the 64 grain Bergers is around 3700 fps..
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 29, 2012 04:47 PM
I think that is doable. 64 Bergers @ 3700fps. The longer the barrel, the better, but 25" should be adequate. It's all in the propellant selection, of which there must be 5 or 6 that are suitable, if not ideal.
This Middlested came with a few loaded 55 VMax using IMR4831, which I didn't think was optimum, however in my search it turned out to be (if not perfect), a good choice. But H4831 is quite a bit better and the max is almost 4 grains more.
Every rifle is different, but if you cannot squeeze 3700 with the 64 Berger, I would be a little disappointed, BUT you are still miles ahead of 55 grain bullets in a 22-250Remington. And, you know how that has been working for you, these past years? It's all good, and mostly beyond 220Swift performance...without constant neck trimming.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 30, 2012 07:36 AM
Well You got me thinking Leonard.So I called down to the place thats doing my gun barrel to see if they had started it yet,and they hadn't so I told them to go with a 26 inch barrel rather than the 25 inch.Don't really know how much difference it will make but it can't hurt right? lol
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted March 30, 2012 08:24 AM
Still sticking with a 1/12 twist?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 30, 2012 09:43 AM
Yeah I'm not going to shoot anything heavier than the 64 grain bullets so yeah I'm going to stick with the 1/12 twist.
Good hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 30, 2012 11:57 AM
a 12 twist is plenty, Chad. Everybody wants to go with a fast twist because it's macho and can handle heavy bullets but I think it degrades barrel life and causes excessive RPM. If the bullet stabilizes, that's all you need to worry about. But, you won't be sorry for the 26 inches.
God hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
